New hazard caused by Ian: EVs suddenly catching fire.

[allegorical oracle]

Florida State Fire Marshall Jimmy Petronis reports "a ton" of EVs disabled from Ian. "As those batteries corrode, fires start. That's a new challenge that our firefighters haven't faced before." He said that in Naples, alone, four Teslas have caught fire.

The energy stored in the batteries doesn't dissipate. Firefighter Stephen Gollan told News Nation, "anytime you mix electrical components and salt water together, it's a recipe for disaster.

To put out these very hot fires can take thousands of gallons of water. Tesla’s emergency response guide says between 3,000 to 8,000 gallons of water are necessary to extinguish an EV fire. For gas-powered vehicles, it takes on average around 1,000 gallons of water to put out a fire.

There have been many instances when after a few days the EV will catch on fire a second time. “It takes special training and understanding of EVs to ensure these fires are put out quickly and safely,” Patronis said.

Florida has 95,000 registered EVs according to the Department of Energy. It comes in second for the amount of EVs in each state only to California, with 563,000.

https//www.motorbiscuit.com/flooded-tesla-hurricane-Ian-exploding-Florida/

[Mr.Bill]

1. Some more information:

https://cleantechnica.com/2022/10/07/florida-state-fire-marshal-tells-crazy-lie-about-evs/

[albacore]

3. Figures...

A non-expert in Florida talking bullshit.
That's par for the course there.

[allegorical oracle]

5. An elaboration by Petronis about the fires...

"I joined North Collier Fire Rescue to assess response activities related to Hurricane Ian and saw with my own eyes an EV continuously ignite, and continually reignite, as fireteams doused the vehicle with tens-of-thousands of gallons of water,” Patronis said. “Subsequently, I was informed by the fire department that the vehicle, once again reignited when it was loaded onto the tow truck. Based on my conversations with area firefighters, this is not an isolated incident. As you can appreciate, I am very concerned that we may have a ticking time bomb on our hands.”

Fires must be a possibility -- the first story referenced Tesla's response guide...

https://www.floridapolitics.com/archives/562676-jimmy-petronis-sounds-alarms-on-dangerous-mix-of-electric-cars-storm-surge/

[Victor_c3]

2. Solid state batteries would eliminate much of these issues

Industry is about 5 years away from these these being introduced on scale to the market.

[TheBlackAdder]

28. Darn, and I was counting on them to have their salvage titles washed through TX & CO to buy on eBay.

.

They had to catch on fire and ruin things.

When those solid state batteries come to fruition, flooded out EVs will also be sold as non-Salvage titles.


Never buy a car from TX, especially if it goes from TX to CO, because Colorado is where the real criming
occurs. It used to be that you put yourself at risk buying from a private seller, but it turns out that the safer
cars are being sold by them. No corporate fleet, No company lease, no rental -- they all can be subject to
massive abuse to their CarFax information as most private insure and repair damages without record. Never
from any of those auto malls and people who are selling cars for other people--that's how those shady car
dealers and roadside car sellers move their vehicles.

This includes completely flooded out vehicles that show no history of that event or the repairs--and as
such, the title still shows as a regular vehicle and not as a salvage, which it should be.

.

[Victor_c3]

30. I never knew that! Thanks for the info n/t

[LAS14]

4. If it's not one thing, it's another. - Rosanne Rosanna Danna nt

[ProfessorGAC]

6. Do They Not Have Sand In Florida?

Everybody who has ever worked with alkali metals knows you don't fight such a fire with water. That is, by chemical fact, temporary at best.
Immersing in mineral oil, or covering it in sand or salt is the most effective way.
Apparently, those firefighters forgot Class D fire topics from their training.

[localroger]

10. Most FD's do not have experience or equipment for fighting chemical fires

As for having sand, they probably have the sand but not the equipment to quickly bring it to a burning vehicle and inundate the fire.

[ProfessorGAC]

11. Only Addresses Half My Point

Even I have gotten training in the basics & theory of fire safety.
I have a hard time believing they don't cover Class D fires in their academies and rule 1 is don't use water.
I buy the thought that they'd have limited resources to "bury" the fire.
That doesn't explain why they kept adding water even as reignition repeated itself.

[localroger]

18. When you have a hammer, every problem looks like a nail

While you're right that it would probably have been better to do nothing and let the fire burn itself out, some people just have a real hard time doing that even when they know better.

[ProfessorGAC]

19. Good Point

They do water, so water is the solution to everything.
Makes sense.

[brush]

13. In a flooded area it's hard to find dry sand.

[ProfessorGAC]

15. It Doesn't Need To Be Dry, Brush

If it's already burning, the heat will dry the moisture in the sand fast enough, eliminating both new water & oxygen from continuing the reaction.
I readily accept that it would require experts to come in later for transport & disposal. But, just packing it with damp sand would smother the fire in 10-15 seconds.
When I started working with sodium, lithium, & potassium doing fusions, I had to take a third party course (I think it was 2 days, might have been 3, back in the 80s).
We actually had to put out small (ish) fires. (Not one pellet size though. Maybe 250g)
If one keeps their cool, it's actually pretty simple, fast, & safe. But, fires make it hard to keep one's wits.

[dsc]

14. even I know this

and my science back round is that of a well educated high school student who reads a bunch (My masters is in education and my undergrad is in math with no hard science classes so any decently high school educated person who reads is even with me for science).

[ProfessorGAC]

16. Above, I Mentioned...

...that I did substantial work with alkali metal reactions. It would have been foolish for us not to have trained in the safety measures of working with it.

[sl8]

23. I don't think lithium ion battery fires are considered Class D.

Lithium metal fires definitely are Class D, but I don't think that's true of lithium ion battery fires.

[ProfessorGAC]

31. Metallic Lithium Has To Be Liberated

Last edited Mon Oct 10, 2022, 04:45 PM - Edit history (1)

Lithium oxides do not spontaneously combust. Combustion is an oxidation reaction. The lithium ions in batteries are oxides. It takes one oxygen atom to take 2 lithium ions to their highest oxidation state.
They won't take on added oxygen, so they can't burn.
Something needs to take on a reductive role to free up lithium atoms.
Haven't thought about what in flood water would do that.
Once the lithium atoms are liberated, it's a Class D fire. And since lithium oxides are unstable to heat, the oxygen liberates, leaving behind raw lithium.

[fescuerescue]

25. This can happen anywhere. not just Florida.

But I doubt that most Florida firestation have sand trucks unless they are posted near a chemical plant.

[Renew Deal]

7. I don't believe this is limited to EV's

Car fires were reported in 2012 during Sandy.

[central scrutinizer]

8. What about places where salt is used to melt ice and snow in the winter?

Cars are corroded and rusted after a couple years unless they bought the undercoating from Jerry Lundegaard

[A HERETIC I AM]

9. Okay, then.

[ProfessorGAC]

12. In 2022?

I Live in the Chicago market. I've never paid for added undercoating (experts say that's mostly an upsell racket) and I've never had anything worse than light rust spots on the rocker panels, and even then only after 10 or more years.
If we were talking 1970, I'd be with you. But, I see only a small fraction of cars with significant rust and those are always cars with plenty of age.

[hadEnuf]

17. Fox News and conservatives in general seem to have it out for EVs.

Can't disappoint their oil pals....

[Kid Berwyn]

20. Elon must've forgotten to tell us about that one.

Who knew salt water would do that?

[Emile]

21. Jimmy Petronis is a right winger blowing smoke out his ass!

Why would you post this?

[W_HAMILTON]

24. This.

I caught wind of this early from another forum I frequent, so we're several days ahead of this Republican manufactured conspiracy. After discussing the topic with knowledgeable people for a couple of pages, let's just say that Florida politicians sure do love their blatant political stunts.

[Emile]

22. Your link to this article does not work!

[ecstatic]

26. Hopefully EV manufacturers are coming up with solutions for this well documented issue.

And WOW @ California's EV count! Makes sense though, considering gas prices.

[FakeNoose]

27. Living in areas that are in danger of flooding means NO electric vehicles are safe there

Why are these EVs even allowed to be sold in Florida? Or anywhere that's low and near a seacoast, for that matter.

[Kaleva]

29. This site says using water on a class D fire actually aggravates it

https://www.fire-extinguisher101.com/class-d-fires.html

[RussBLib]

32. Wonder if PHEV's are similarly affected? Nt