Helsinki Commission Recommends Kicking Russia Off U.N. Security Council

[Nevilledog]

Link to tweet

https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/10/13/helsinki-commission-recommends-kicking-russia-off-u-n-security-council/


An independent U.S. government human rights and security watchdog is calling on the Biden administration to take immediate steps to remove Russia as a permanent member of the U.N. Security Council, after Russia hit civilian areas in Kyiv and other major Ukrainian cities this week with missile strikes.

In a letter to U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken obtained by Foreign Policy, the bipartisan Helsinki Commission urged the United States to initiate a protest of Russia’s standing as a permanent member of the Security Council based on the violation of Ukraine’s sovereignty, which U.S. President Joe Biden has said flies in the face of the U.N. Charter.

Under the long-shot plan, Ukraine would issue credentials to a representative to claim the seat, allowing the United States or another nation to protest Russia’s standing as a Security Council member, which derives from a 1991 deal for Moscow to retain the Soviet Union’s permanent seat after the country collapsed. That could force a vote for Russia’s ability to remain on the Security Council.

“We urge you to initiate a process to replace Russia on the UN Security Council as the fifth permanent member,” Reps. Steve Cohen and Joe Wilson, a co-chair and the ranking member on the Helsinki Commission, respectively, wrote to Blinken on Wednesday. “Russia is not a responsible international actor and is unbecoming of a seat on the UN Security Council. Moreover, it has no right to this seat. Rather, it was provided to Russia in a deal after the dissolution of the Soviet Union. Ukraine could and should be recognized to fill the USSR seat rather than Russia.”

*snip*

[TheProle]

1. It's not a short-term solution to the horror of this war

but that's no reason not to attempt to begin the process.

[Wounded Bear]

2. Not sure there is a method to do that within the UN Charter...nt

[lapfog_1]

4. The charter does NOT give Russia a permanent seat.

It gives it to the USSR. A nation that no longer exists. A resolution gave the seat to Russia... a resolution can be undone.

Or... all of the rest of the world joins the New United Nations (or World Council or The Democratic Order of Planets)

And we don't include anyone who isn't a democracy (which might soon include US).

[SheltieLover]

7. This!👆

[former9thward]

19. The China of 1946 also does not exist.

Politically, economically or even in geography. Really the only way is the second option you mention. Only a relatively small minority of UN members are democracies. So it would be a small new UN.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

3. As a security council member, can't Russia simply veto this action?

I'd expect a veto from China as well.

[Disaffected]

6. I'm guessing it would be decided

by a vote of the General Assembly(?).

[Brother Buzz]

9. It would be UN General Assembly vote...

That veto thingy is only good the Security Council

[former9thward]

16. The SC has a veto over any GA resolution.

A process the U.S. has used many times.

[scipan]

27. No because it would come under the credentials rules of

The rules of procedure.

Here, the Security Council’s seldom-noted credentials rules would come into play. Under Rule 17 of the Security Council’s Provisional Rules of Procedure: 

[a]ny representative on the Security Council, to whose credentials objection has been made within the Security Council, shall continue to sit with the same rights as other representatives until the Security Council has decided the matter (emphasis added). 

So Russia’s representative would “continue to sit” on the Council until a decision was made. Deciding the matter — i.e., deciding an objection to the credentials of a Security Council representative — falls under the rules on procedural matters. These are decided by a nine-member majority on the 15-member council. Under UN Charter Article 27(2), such matters cannot be vetoed. Russia would be powerless.

https://cepa.org/article/expelling-russia-from-the-un-security-council-a-how-to-guide/

[Disaffected]

5. Agreed that Russia should get the boot but,

I'm not sure, even though it is the aggrieved party, Ukraine should necessarily get the seat. Having said that, I really don't have any good idea who should get it (maybe India?) - or maybe just eliminate it altogether.

[Gore1FL]

13. Germany might be a logical choice.

The Security Council is made of the victors of World War II. I submit that "permanent" members based on that probably needs to go away, but the addition of Germany at least patches part of that mistake.

[Disaffected]

22. Yeah, I thought about that too.

They are a major economy but, as France is there too, it might be construed as too Eurocentric, especially since the UK is also a permanent member.

There doesn't seem to be anything obvious so maybe better to just vacate the seat.

BTW:

"A Member of the United Nations which has persistently violated the Principles contained in the present Charter may be expelled from the Organization by the General Assembly upon the recommendation of the Security Council."

Seems that Russia meets that criteria to a "T" but, since it has a veto on the Security Council so who knows how that shakes out?

ETA: Japan?

[Gore1FL]

23. The real answer in UN 2.0

It's still a .0, so I concede revisions will be required. We need to rethink world cooperation and incorporate what we have learned in the last 75 years to do so.

I don't think we need the Rangers (Babylon 5 reference) to enforce the peace, but I think a UN with more teeth could be useful.

[scipan]

28. It has to do with Ukraine being part of the USSR.When it broke up,

Other outcomes were possible. As of December 1991, although nobody pursued the possibility at the time: two UN Members besides Russia were also, in principle, suitable to fill the USSR Security Council seat. Ukraine and Belarus had both been Union Republics of the USSR — and both were also “original Members” of the UN, i.e., founding member states. No other UN member had or has those characteristics as negotiated at Yalta and accepted at San Francisco in 1945 — both had Union Republic status in the former USSR and original membership in the UN.

https://cepa.org/article/expelling-russia-from-the-un-security-council-a-how-to-guide/

Also, as part of the agreement, Russia agreed to respect the UN Charter, including the sovereignty and territorial integrity of its neighbors.

[Disaffected]

32. OK, I guess that gives Ukraine

an edge up. I'm still not sure the "vacant" seat should go to any country however as there IMO are no especially good candidates.

[SheltieLover]

8. Ukraine should absolutely be awarded ussr's seat!

[BigmanPigman]

11. Ditto!

[SheltieLover]

12. ...

[Cha]

10. I Would think So! nt

[Evolve Dammit]

14. No reason this war-criminal led, genocidal dictatorship should be on any group such as the UN.

[James48]

15. I've been saying this for a while.

That's exactly what needs to happen, and exactly who needs to get the process started.

I said it here-
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=2979825

[former9thward]

17. There is no process to get it done.

Maybe that is why the Commission in the OP did not spell out anything.

[James48]

18. Maybe no process

but it shoud be covered under existing process, as it is spelled out in the documents of the UN:

What are 3 duties of the General Assembly?

Consider and approve the United Nations budget and establish the financial assessments of Member States. Elect the non-permanent members of the Security Council and the members of other United Nations councils and organs and, on the recommendation of the Security Council, appoint the Secretary-General.

[former9thward]

20. "Elect non-permanent members"

Russia is a permanent member that the GA has no authority over.

[scipan]

29. Please see my post #27 for the process.

Under the rules of procedure, a 9 member majority of the 15 member security council is what is required.

[David__77]

21. Do the Democrats voting for that really think the Biden administration will do this?

I do wonder if there was minority dissent on this.

[moondust]

24. Russian Federation recognized as terrorist state.

Link to tweet

The Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe (PACE) has recognized Russia as a terrorist state by adopting a resolution titled “Further escalation in the Russian Federation’s aggression against Ukraine” that declares the Russian Federation a terrorist regime.

99 members of the assembly favored the resolution, and 1 abstained.
~
https://euromaidanpress.com/2022/10/13/pace-adopts-resolution-declaring-the-russian-federation-a-terrorist-regime-updates/

[EndlessWire]

25. They should amend the charter

to include a method to kick a rogue state off the Security Council. Then they should immediately do it. And, I'm fine with Ukraine taking the seat. They have been Russia's most immediate victim. Seems fitting.

The reason? Russia's little veiled threat of WW3 using nukes. This seems a viable reason to exclude them from civilized society. It's absurd to think that a member can flaunt the rules in an attempt to extort the rest of the world.

I remember reading in the Olympic Manifesto, brought to us by China and Russia, and to a lesser extent, India, some kind of intent to use the United Nations to achieve their goals of World Domination. They recognize the worth of world opinion, they are just not skilled at it, yet. We should at least educate them by amending the charter to bring Russia to heel.

[scipan]

30. They don't have to amend the charter. Please see my post #27.

[Hekate]

26. I hope the UN can do this, as Russia has provided innumerable reasons for it

Yes, they should remain in the UN. No, not on the Security Council.