Are EV worth it? My friends just got their new EV.

[leftyladyfrommo]

It's very pretty but it cost a lot more than I could ever afford.

They don't have to get gas but they have to charge it.
And the sales price was so high.

Doesn't seem very economical to me.

[Vinca]

1. I need to add a question to your post since I've been wondering about EVs, too.

When you "fill up" at a charging station, how much does it cost and how long does it take?

[scarletlib]

5. So far as I know at least as of now public charges are free.

Most people will buy a special plug/device and charge car at home. Goes on your electric bill. My son had an EV. He loved it. Easy to drive. Very low maintenance mainly tire replacement. The car charger at home made no noticeable difference in his electric bill.

[leftyladyfrommo]

9. So far my friends love their new car. They are afraid of

getting hit.

[Zeitghost]

107. There is some free charging

At businesses or other public locations. But the vast majority of public charging stations cost money. Usually $10-$15 to "fill up" depending on rates and type of car. Still beats the $65 it takes to fill my Civic (or the $125 for my Jeep), but there is still a cost. I think the time is the bigger issue with public charging, at least it would be for me.

[Ilsa]

2. They probably get a tax incentive or credit.

That can make a difference. Plus, there is little maintenance to pay for.

[blueinredohio]

3. Question on an ev

When you charge it at home how much does it make your electric bill go up in a month?

[scarletlib]

6. Not much compared to cost of gas.

[leftyladyfrommo]

7. I read that can cost as much as gas.

Our electric is going through the roof. I don't use any more than I have to. Gas also doubled last year and I guess it will double again. I am on SS so it's scary.

[samnsara]

15. depends on the county too. i lived in one county in wash state where eletricity

..was absolutely dirt cheap cuz they invested in their own hydro. Thats where all the pot farms were located as well. The county I am in now is 3 times what it was there.

[Genki Hikari]

68. It costs $60 a year to have access

To EV charging at home and at local charging stations where I live.

That's a lot less than what I pay in gas.

If I could afford the car itself, I'd get one for my errand runs, and keep the gas car for longer trips.

[LiberalFighter]

90. Maybe if you have it charged in public it might reach that point.

But why do that when you can have a charger at home and save significantly on cost compared to buying gas.

And you have lower maintenance costs. Fewer trips needed compared to gas vehicles.

There is likely to be more advancement in the next few years.

[Native]

8. We have a plug in hybrid & charge it each night. Our bill went up one month by $4

We haven't noticed any real increase, and we've had it a year. The vehicle only gives us around 50 electric miles per charge, but that's more than enough for us most days. I can also charge it for free at Whole Foods. I get about 25 miles of charge when I'm shopping. It takes all night for us to charge it at home though because we just use a regular outlet.

[LiberalFighter]

91. And if you drove 25 miles per day you would pay about $100 a month in gas.

Significant savings there.

[Native]

103. The car also regenerates with a braking paddle on the steering wheel

So driving around town actually increases the electric miles we get. Going 75 mph drains it pretty fast tho.

[Liberal In Texas]

76. Haven't noticed any difference.

Almost always charge at home. I top it off everytime I get home. Only takes a few minutes. Unless it's almost empty, then a couple of hours.

Had a 220v outlet put in the garage to accommodate the fast charger.

[grantcart]

94. Typically EV owners fill at night when smart meters adjust to very low rates.

[bucolic_frolic]

4. I'd let them work out the bugs for about 2 decades

just like I'd never buy a new model vehicle. They're best bought on the last year of production run because the bugs have been revealed, are publicly known, or have been repaired by the manufacturer. Edsels happen all the time, especially in this age when vehicles are built from components made by suppliers. Only 2 companies, says mechanic Scotty Kilmer, put R&D, testing, and production into their own transmissions, and even they have a recall here or there. All the rest are made by a handful of suppliers and they range from good to so-so.

[Celerity]

19. 2 decades from now? 2043 model year?? There are not going to be any ICE cars made (in any remotely

significant numbers) LONG before then.

I do not think many people understand how absolutely FUCKED we are going to be, climate-wise, by the 2040's.

[KPN]

46. Good points. Yeah, I really gotta wonder about

how many people actually understand. As they say, there are two kinds of people, those who can extrapolate.

[JohnSJ]

10. It isn't for many people. If you need to charge it with dc fast or level 2 charging, that will also

Last edited Sat Oct 15, 2022, 09:29 AM - Edit history (1)

require additional costs to install those charging stations at your house, and for some they will need to upgrade there breaker box.

All this doesn’t factor in those who don’t have a house, but the millions that live in apartments

until the infrastructure is in place, it isn’t a feasible option for many.

A hybrid option is still more practical for most people, especially if they use it to travel long distances on a regular basis.

Currently the EV model is usually just for those of means.

Until the prices come down substantially, and the infrastructure is more built up, it isn’t practical for most people. In addition, the battery technology needs to be improved, where faster charging times that don’t degrade the life of the battery quicker need to be developed, along with other alternative fuel vehicles, such as hydrogen fuel cells.

A national mass transit system that the majority of Americans would use, would do a lot to reduce the use of fossil fuels, but Americans I suspect are spoiled, and want their own cars.

[leftyladyfrommo]

38. Public transportation in Kansas City. MO is awful.

The city is spread out for miles and most areas have minimal public transportation or none at all.

[Jack the Greater]

47. Using a Tesla Wall Connector on a 60 amp circuit 44 miles of range per hour of charge on a Model 3

The actual charger is built into the car itself. Model 3 has a range of 315 miles and can easily be charged to full capacity overnight, even if fully depleted, which would be rare. The Tesla Wall Connector cost $400, and can be installed professionally for as little as $350 if the distribution panel is close to where the Wall Connector is to be located.

Charging at 240 volts and 48 amps uses 11.5kw per hour. At the base rate kwh cost about 22 cents where I live. That's about 5.75 cents a mile. An ICE, at 30 mpg and $5.90 a gallon (again, where I live) costs about 20 cents a mile.

The cost per mile driven over the life of a car depends of some primary factors: the cost to buy the car; the number miles that can be squeezed out over the life of the car; the cost to fuel the car per mile, and maintenance costs per mile. The overwhelmingly biggest maintenance cost for an EV is changing the battery pack. Tests have shown, at 100,000 miles, the battery pack on a Model 3 can degrade about 8-10% and can continue at that level for another 100,000 miles.

[JohnSJ]

51. If you have a house. Still that is another 1000 dollars, and may also require a circuit breaker

upgrade.

Add to that, 50000 bucks for a Tesla 3, for just driving around town? Even at the current gas prices, it will take years to break even

EV are currently too damn expensive for most people

I have a plug-in hybrid, where I can get 50 miles on all electric before the hybrid ICE kicks in. It was a Honda Clarity, cost was 35K, and don't have to worry about range anxiety. Honda no longer makes it.

I sure won't buy an all electric EV until the price comes down, and want to see what competition brings, along with other alternative non-fossil fuel vehicles

They also better have a good recycling program available.

Lithium, is where most of the EV batteries is made from, is not mined here, and most is obtained from South America, so that presents another dependency.

I would like to see Hydrogen Fuel Cell technology expand for that reason

[Jack the Greater]

55. "EV are currently too damn expensive for most people"

No doubt. And with Newsom's EO that no new ICE cars will be sold in CA after 2035, it looks as if those without a garage, or someplace else to install a charging system, will be at a disadvantage when it comes to driving in that state. And as other states look poised to follow CA's lead, it will make the gas lines of the early 70's, or at any Costco station today, look short by comparison when people line up at public charging stations to fill 'er up.

[JohnSJ]

59. I am in California, and while no new ICE cars to be sold by 2035 is admirable, it will be difficult

to achieve without Federal help, and that will ony happen if Democrats become the majority party IMHO, because the infrastructure needs massive upgrades.

I would also like to see how far hydrogen fuel Technology can be exploited, or different battery technology not dependent on Lithium

[hunter]

72. Installing car chargers in apartments isn't rocket science.

The demand is already here in California and building owners are doing it to attract higher income tenants.

The problem, of course, is cars themselves, electric or not. With a human population of 8 billion the planet can't support an automobile for every adult, no matter how they are powered.

If we are serious about reducing our environmental footprint and the dangers of climate change we need to be rebuilding our cities in such a way that most people find car ownership unnecessary.

Personally, I'm never going to have any influence on the automobile industry because my favorite cars cost $1,000 and I don't commute.

I bought a new car once in the 'eighties when I was a young man who thought he was hot stuff but I'll never do that again. I still think I'm hot stuff but I don't need a new car to decorate my ego.

[scarletlib]

11. If you drive mostly in town, yes they are worth it.

Stop and go burns the most gas. The range of most EVs is 200+ miles or so. Enough charge for your daily life.

For now, for longer trips you can rent a gas fueled car. That because there aren’t enough chargers publicly available as of now for extended trips.

Fortunately (hopefully) that will soon change. Major changes in charging technologies have been developed enabling a charge in just a few minutes. They are not yet in public use.

[SalamanderSleeps]

16. I think you might like this.

I really hope this vehicle is successful.

[scarletlib]

26. Wow!

[MuseRider]

44. I like that!

I am betting it would fare no better out here on the gravel/dirt roads than my Smart Car did.

[KPN]

56. Imagine if this concept was applied to mass transit as well.

Hopefully, we survive long enough as a species to see that.

[Jack the Greater]

58. Is their room for groceries?

Kids are out of the question.

[markie]

12. just ordered a new Bolt EV

it will get to me in about a month... I'll come back and answer your questions then

[leftyladyfrommo]

39. Please do. nt

[KPN]

57. +++. Cool. Looking forward to hearing your review.

[Scrivener7]

13. I live in an apartment so charging is not available at home.

I got a small hybrid instead. Love it and I get 50 mpg.

Bought a used low mileage one so the purchase price was low.

[Bettie]

29. My son is still driving the hybrid Civic we got

18 years ago. It's at 250,000 miles and now only gets about 45 mpg.

Plus, my two older kids can drive a manual transmission, which their friends think is somehow exotic!

[Bernardo de La Paz]

14. I suspect your "economical" calculation neglects your carbon footprint

There is no out of pocket cost for putting more carbon into the atmosphere, but there is a cost to weight on your mind in doing so.

Setting an example might cost out of pocket (or might not) but there is also a cost to not setting one: more carbon from others who have not been sufficiently encouraged by examples.

Not laying the whole crisis on your shoulders, but pointing out that out-of-pocket is not the only economic metric.

[leftyladyfrommo]

41. My friends are very environmentally conscious.

Thst was an important part of their decision.

[jimfields33]

42. They should have some thing like they do with airlines.

Airlines allow you to buy your carbon input. Talk about peace of mind. Every time you fly, you’re clean. They should do something like that with cars at least voluntary. It’d be wonderful to have peace of mind anytime you get in your car knowing you are driving clean every time. Airlines are smarter.

[MichMan]

48. Paying extra for carbon credits doesn't make the aircraft pollution free

It still is creating the same pollution as before.

[jimfields33]

63. Actually the way it's sold is you are free because you are helping the environment.

[dembotoz]

17. my friend has a prius that gets an absurd mpg in real life

more than one way to skin a cat

[csziggy]

82. I've owned two Prius - a 2004 Prius and a 2014 Prius V

My husband drives the V and we got both Priuses for him to commute to work. It was great for that and for carrying passengers.

The original Prius got about 50 mpg, the V gets about 40. The original Prius' batteries went bad. We replaced them twice, but the last time they went bad, they took the car's computer with them. We sold it to the mechanic since he could get parts at cost and could do the work himself. So far the V is doing fine but my husband recently hurt his knee and getting in and out of it is difficult for him.

The most recent car I bought for myself is a Honda Fit. It gets the same mileage as the V, without the worry of replacing batteries. It's much smaller, though - too small for my husband to comfortably drive or even ride in.

If we have to replace the Prius V, I'll be looking at the Honda CRV hybrid. I have a friend who sells Hondas and he got me a heck of a deal on the fit so I think he could get us a deal on a CRV hybrid in a few years, either used or new.

[Emile]

18. My next new vehicle will be electric. I plan on

putting solar panels on my garage roof to charge it for free.

https://news.energysage.com/solar-panels-and-electric-cars-can-i-use-solar-to-charge-my-vehicle/#:~:text=The%20simple%20answer%20is%20yes,to%20charge%20your%20vehicle%27s%20battery.

[3Hotdogs]

20. My Hyundai hybrid gets 45. My next will be a plug-in, probably next year.

[TreasonousBastard]

21. First, you'll notice that those batteries are expensive so...

you're paying a lot more than for a gas motor, as complex as that is.

And, unless you spring for a home charger, charging times can be longer than you want to hang out by the charging station. This will probably work itself out eventually.

Weren't many gas stations around when the first Model A came out, either.

Do we have the electrical network to charge all those batteries? And where's the recycling infrastructure?

All of this will be solved as electric cars become more common, of course.

Right now the point is to figure miles per kilowatt the same way we work out mpg-- ignore the dashboard calculations and manufacturers fluff and fill it up. Then see how many miles you get. You'll probably get less than you hope if you use AC and then the heater a lot.

You save on gas, oil changes, and other stuff, but you have to figure the initial cost, which will usually be few thousand more than gas, or even a hybrid. Insurance is iffy, but you may have to count that, too.

Personally, considering everything, including the towing charges you might see if you're out west somewhere where the next working charging station is 40 miles away and you think you have 20 miles left, I think the best deal would be hybrid. I'd say plugin hybrid if they didn't also have a premium initial cost.

[Beachnutt]

23. Good example here, 80% charge in 6 minutes

Last edited Sat Oct 15, 2022, 09:21 AM - Edit history (1)

https://insideevs.com/news/553933/amprius-extreme-fast-charge-battery/

https://amprius.com/

[TreasonousBastard]

30. But that was a tiny battery and and a PR story aimed at investors

Does show how doubtless the future will see enormous leaps in battery tech so we just have to see how it goes

[Emile]

32. I talked to a young girl the other day at a EV charging

station. She said right now it takes around 15 to 30 minutes to charge. She said she plugs in and goes inside and shops, goes to bathroom, grabs a sandwich, etc etc and usually your car is charged by the time you go back outside.

[MichMan]

49. The Ford Model A came out in 1928

There were gas stations everywhere

[Quakerfriend]

24. Still too expensive for most to afford.

It would be great to see a cheap EV come to market.

I’ve got a 16 year old hybrid (Toyota Highlander) -
They said battery would be done within 6 years and cost 8K to replace- but, still going strong!

I hope to hold out until cheap EV is available.

[Celerity]

81. there are already plenty of affordable ones

I so tire or debunking this on so many EV threads

the average new ICE vehicle cost is over 45,000 usd in the US now, btw

[Quakerfriend]

105. Thanks for posting this!

Very informative!!

[Celerity]

106. yw

[48656c6c6f20]

25. Batteries don't last forever. How big of a environmental disaster

Will all those old batteries be? Will they be able to recycle them? Or are we going to have landfills with more wonderful shit for decades?

[Johnny2X2X]

35. Batteries are 97% recyclable

The old batteries will be turned into new batteries. That’s already started. But battery line for new EVs is 18-25 years so the recycling won’t really pick up for another decade or more.

[NoMoreRepugs]

27. Suggest everyone sell their buggywhip company stock

cuz I’m 100% sure the horse and carriage isn’t coming back.

[honest.abe]

28. The time it takes to recharge is the show stopper for me.

Plus the cost of replacing the battery when it reaches end of life. The cost can be in the high thousands. However most EV batteries now are warranted for at least 8 years and usually last more than 10 years depending on various circumstances.

[Beachnutt]

40. Take a look at the new ev battery

https://insideevs.com/news/553933/amprius-extreme-fast-charge-battery/

https://amprius.com/

Link to tweet

[honest.abe]

43. Sounds good but I think it says 3-4 years from actual mass production.

It the meantime the charging time is still a huge issue... at least for me.

[Demsrule86]

31. The charging is very cheap according to my friends who have an EV...and you save a bundle on gas.

[Emile]

34. Yep, much cheaper. Not sure what they are going to do

about lost road taxes, so right now an EV is much cheaper than gas vehicle to operate.

[bcool]

33. I'll never go back to a gas car

I will NEVER go back to a gas car, unless I'm forced to.

Here's my take on the pros & cons of electric vehicles:

Pros
- no trips to the gas station (no stinky gas on your hands or wasting time every week filling up-plug in when you get home)
- instantaneous acceleration for pulling out into traffic and passing on the highway
- quiet
- you can preheat or cool the car before you leave
- electricity costs are generally cheaper than gas, and don't fluctuate as much. For example, my electric car costs about 3 cents a mile for fuel whereas a car getting 30mpg costs about 10 cents a mile
- less maintenance costs and inconvenience - no oil changes, etc.
- environmentally friendlier (instead of spreading pollution all over the area, it centralizes it near the power plants - and, if some studies are to be believed, reduces overall emissions...especially if you get your power from renewable sources)

Cons
- more expensive to buy and to install a home charger
- long distance trips (over 200 miles) require planning and patience to recharge - if you're the kind of person who drives more than five hours a day to get somewhere fast, they aren't for you (at least right now)
- if you live in an apartment where you don't have access to 240v electricity, you'll have to recharge offsite at a higher cost, but still less than filling up with gas. But, you'll likely only need to do that once a week or less.

[TheBlackAdder]

36. Imagine in 6-7 years having to pay the equivalent of two engine swaps in a conventional car.

[arlyellowdog]

37. Do not compare a new EV to an old gas car

Compare the price gouging of any car in 2022. All cars are being gouged. My son got an EV and pays NOTHING for fuel as both he and his wife have free charging stations at their workplaces.

[albacore]

45. The 2023 Chevy Bolt is under $30K

The 2023 Chevy Bolt EUV in the LT trim will be priced from $28,195, down from last year’s MSRP of $34,495. The Premier trim level, meanwhile, will now be priced from $32,695, down from $38,995.
Been making them since 2015.
BIG problem with the battery, but that was sorted out two years ago.

Pretty good reviews, too....

https://www.caranddriver.com/chevrolet/bolt-ev

[leftyladyfrommo]

61. That is still a lot of money. That's more than one year

Salary.

[albacore]

65. Average new car is $47K....

Nissan Sentra is $20K
KIA Soul is $20
Hyundai Venue is $20K
KIA Forte is $20K

But.... ya gotta figure gas is more expensive than an electric charge.... more moving parts = more upkeep/maintenance....carbon footprint...

https://yaleclimateconnections.org/2021/09/electric-cars-can-cost-40-less-to-maintain-than-gasoline-cars/

[EX500rider]

88. But there are cheaper ICE cars

2022 Chevrolet Spark LS
Price: $15,695, including $995 destination charge

https://www.cars.com/articles/here-are-the-10-cheapest-new-cars-you-can-buy-right-now-421309/

[Celerity]

108. Chevrolet plans to discontinue the Spark in North America after the 2022 model year, with production

ended in August. The Chevrolet Spark was the United States and Canada's least expensive car on sale. Production for South Korea ceased in August 2022.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Spark#Discontinuation

[EX500rider]

112. The Mitsubishi mirage es is only $1,000 more than the Bollt

[Celerity]

114. There are multiple affordable EV's now, and the prices will only go lower on some as scales of

economy kick in more and more.

[albacore]

66. I just checked....

...and from what I read, a new car is beyond the (sensible) reach of many, many Americans. I do NOT know how long we can sustain an economy in which many folks have NO disposable income.

"Whether you're paying cash, leasing, or financing a car, your upper spending limit really shouldn't be a penny more than 35% of your gross annual income. That means if you make $36,000 a year, the car price shouldn't exceed $12,600. Make $60,000, and the car price should fall below $21,000"

https://www.moneyunder30.com/car-affordability-calculator#:~:text=Follow%20the%2035%25%20Rule,price%20should%20fall%20below%20%2421%2C000.

[Liberal In Texas]

78. You forget the rebates that bring the price down quite a bit.

I have a Kia Niro PHEV and got around $8K back after purchase from federal and state rebates.

Right now, unfortunately, cars of any type are hard to find and EVs are in big demand these days and the dealerships are selling over sticker or are not giving any discounts like they used to.

[Disaffected]

85. Don't you USAsians

get a $7,500 fed rebate?

[Celerity]

87. With tax credit a base model Leaf in under 21,000 USD. The average US ICE new car is over 45,000 usd

That Leaf price is not some unaffordable cost.

As for you stating 30K usd us more that one year salary:

https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/average-family-income

The average personal income in the United States is $63,214, with the median income across the country being $44,225. Real wages averaged $67,521 in 2022, and average household incomes averaged to $87,864.

also

15 usd per hour (minimum wage in many places) at a full time of 40 hours per week is 31,200 usd per year

[Emile]

71. Cute little car. Interior is pretty sporty.

[Politicub]

50. It's a big deal to go from an internal combustion engine,

with pistons and all that, to an electric motor.

Over the long term, it’s clear that EVs are the future. Internal combustion cars will be seen as horse and buggies one day.

It is too expensive to get into EVs, though.

[leftyladyfrommo]

89. My friends opened up the trunk to show me how

nice it was and then opened up the front and it's another trunk. Lots of storage.

[Mz Pip]

52. I have a Prius plug in hybrid

Most of the time I never buy gas. I get about 25 miles on a charge and that’s plenty for daily errands and local trips. After the charge I get 52 mpg.

IIRC there was a hefty tax credit on it, too.

We have it on a timer so it charges in the cheaper off peak middle of the night.

We’ve been really happy with it.

[Marius25]

53. The cost to charge an EV is usually much cheaper than gas

But currently EVs are prohibitively expensive for most people except like the Nissan Leaf or Chevy Volt.

EVs really need to come down in sale price to beat out gas cars.

[Thunderbeast]

54. We drive two plug-in hybrids.

Charge both on 120 volt level 1 service overnight.

Cost per mile if using utility grid is 4.5 cents per mile compared to 20 to 40 cents for ICE. My rooftop solar charges both cars for free. Each car gets 40‐50 electric miles per charge. I can usually find an outdoor outlet at motels when we travel, giving us the first 50 electric miles on road trips. We sometimes use public free charging stations if near our lodging.

When the electric range is depleted, both cars operate as hybrid vehicles getting 37‐45 miles per gallon.

Performance is outstanding.

[farmbo]

60. EV owner (Tesla Model 3) for four years now...

1. We normally just charge overnight on our 110v garage trickle charger which gives us 50-60 mi. range. We will buy and connect the Category II fast charger when/ if we feel it’s necessary. This barely shows up on our electric bill since we charge at night.

2. We live in an area that has several Tesla superchargers within easy driving distance which we’ll use when we’re going on a long trip; charging to our maximum range of 310 miles has seldom taken more than 40 minutes. Cost to fully charge varies by local utility rates. Usually costs between $12 and $20 for a 250 mile charge.

3.I know the cost of an EV is scary, but try pricing a new fossil fuel Ford F 150 ($60 K) or Jeep Grand Wagoner ($97K). Since most EVs still qualify for a $7500 tax credit, it’s worth at least taking a look.

4. But my all time favorite reason for driving an EV?? I get to flip off every gas station as I drive by!

[leftyladyfrommo]

64. My friends got a Tesla but I don't know which one.

So far they love it. They did say something about being careful not to get hit. I guess they damage easily.

[Sympthsical]

62. Currently debating it

My partner doesn't worry about gas, because his work pays for his. He just bought a new Rav4 (I think? Might be a Highlander) I'm probably in the market for a new car next summer, so I've been researching EVs.

Thing is, we have solar, so cost isn't really a thing with us. We already use very little electricity as it is. Outside of charger installation, cost of charging won't be a thing.

The farthest - absolute farthest - I'll drive is Sacramento or SF, which are both about 42 miles away. So range isn't really an issue. 95% of my driving is very local, no farther than 10-20 miles round trip.

So we're probably in an ideal situation for it.

[SheltieLover]

67. Even if I could afford one, I would not want one.

Perhaps a somewhat unique concern, but in this red hellhole, TN, when a person is gassing their car, they are absolutely a sitting duck for car jacking, robbery, etc. Happens several times per week in this region, per news sources at gas stations. Imagine if sitting at a charging station for even 30 min became the norm. Criminals would regularly target the stations & law abiding citizens would, again, pay the price, some with their lives.

Add to that the animosity rednecks have towards "all that hippy shit" (anything energy efficient) and you find large trucks blocking the few charging stations in this area, along with a significantly increased likelihood of car vandalism, violent attacks, etc.

Not to mention the power grid here can barely withstand use in tepid weather. At least 1-2 brief outages per day here.

So I'll stick with my old Honda (47 mpg).

[BannonsLiver]

74. This is a great example of how Americans live in constant fear.

As a culture we’ve been conditioned by media etc. to be afraid of pretty much everything. We are a fear culture.

Btw, Hondas are among the most commonly stolen vehicles in the US.

[SheltieLover]

75. This is not an irrational fear. It is fact.

[hunter]

97. Why wouldn't you charge your car at home?

Or better yet, get a plug-in hybrid?

Those are electric cars in daily driving and only burn gasoline on longer trips.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plug-in_hybrid

[SheltieLover]

100. Well no need at present

Getting 47 mpg avg / tank in old Honda, which has been completely rebuilt for longevity.

But, even if I wanted a hybrid, no way could I afford one.

[hunter]

104. Same here. My cars work, I'm not a commuter, and I can't afford a plug-in hybrid.

I doubt buying a brand new car would significantly reduce my environmental footprint in the long term. In the short term it would definitely increase it, as I'd be the one responsible for that car being made.

If someone gave me a Tesla I'd give it away like a hot potato.

If someone gave me a basic plug-in hybrid I'd be tempted to keep it.

But I don't need a new car.

[bedazzled]

69. We just had to buy a new car. Ended up with a gas accord

Wanted a hybrid very badly buy just couldn't afford it. It was 45k or more after the Florida dealerships finished gouging us. Paid 36k for a base Accord. I get great gas mileage on it ... 32 mpg or so in the city. The conservative way I drive works well with ecodrive.

[Disaffected]

70. One other thing that should be kept in mind in EV evaluation is

the overall carbon footprint of ICE, EV and hybrid vehicles.

Due mainly to the high carbon footprint of manufacture of the lithium batteries, you have to drive an EV a ton of miles, in most jurisdictions, before its lifetime carbon footprint is less than most ICEs. And, this is more-so for long range EVs (because of their larger batteries).

What are best by far in that respect are the hybrids. Even though they have an ICE, their small battery and small engine provide the best carbon footprint combination and by quite a large margin.

Delivery wait times for EVs are also high with many models (over a year in some cases). As well, battery technology is still advancing at quite a rapid pace and it may therefore pay to wait a while for that reason alone (which is what I have decide to do, especially since I don't drive all that much nowadays).

[BumRushDaShow]

73. Interesting that you have this thread as I saw the Philly Inquirer had an article about some issues

at least specific for urban dwellers who have no garage and/or garage electrical access and/or any "off-street" parking at all. And it also brings up the issue of condo owners or those in rentals (including traditional multifamily units/complexes or single-family rental homes).

I just spotted this and read it this morning.

No paywall

Extension cords across sidewalks: Charging an electric vehicle in Philly is a challenge

Electric vehicle owners without dedicated parking spaces stretch wires, and the limits of legal codes, to keep their EVs charged.


Ilya Knizhnik and his son Yofi, 10, plug in their electric vehicle for charging outside their house in West Philadelphia. Knizhnik has one of only 68 legal EV-Only parking spaces granted by Philadelphia before City Council canceled the program in 2017. He shares the charger with neighbors.

Jessica Griffin / Staff Photographer

by Andrew Maykuth
Updated Oct 13, 2022

Anthony Wong and Robert Berkowitz waited several years for a back-ordered Tesla, the popular electric vehicle brand. By the time the new car was delivered in 2018, Philadelphia had canceled its controversial program to set aside curbside parking spots for EVs. That left the Bella Vista residents with few options for charging their new Tesla at home. Like many urban EV owners without off-street parking, Wong and Berkowitz improvised. They’re retired and say they have more time to charge the Tesla’s battery at public charging stations at such destinations as stores or casinos.

“If we drove the car every day for work, then we might need to charge overnight to keep the car going,” Wong said. But sometimes they need to charge their car at home. Their solution: Run a cable out the second-floor window of their rowhouse to their car parked in the street. They prop the cable atop a street sign to allow pedestrians to pass underneath. “It’s not really that noticeable, and it’s not in somebody’s way,” Wong said. It’s also not really legal, nor safe, according to experts.

But as electric vehicle sales surge, an increasing number of Philadelphia EV owners appear to be taking similar measures to charge their vehicles at home. “I don’t think it’s legal to put things across the sidewalk,” said Tony Bandiero, executive director of the Eastern Pennsylvania Alliance for Clean Transportation. “But until they start enforcing it, people are going to do it.” Indeed it is not legal to string a cable across a sidewalk in Philadelphia, even if it is covered with a mat or a cord protector, according to a spokesperson for Mayor Jim Kenney’s office. The city is unable to account for any enforcement actions taken against violators for sidewalk charging. EV advocates say most people don’t complain.


A homeowner in Chestnut Hill has stretched a cable across a sidewalk to charge an electric vehicle. A rubber floor mat covers the cable. Such improvised charging arrangements appear to be increasing in Philadelphia among EV owners who do not have dedicated off-street parking.

The challenge for EV drivers who park on the street

If curbside parking is allowed in front of their home, property owners can apply to install an electrical line beneath a sidewalk and install a charger no closer than 18 inches from a curb. The Department of Licenses and Inspections can issue an electrical permit for the job, which “also needs to be approved by the Streets Department and Art Commission since it requires installing an EV charger device in the right-of-way,” according to a city spokesperson. The city does not separate permits granted for curbside chargers because there is “no way to differentiate” the EV charging permit from other electrical permits, according to a city spokesperson. But the current permit to install a charger includes no special parking privileges, so it is of limited value to EV owners in densely developed neighborhoods.

(snip)

https://www.inquirer.com/business/electric-vehicles-charging-philadelphia-parking-20221013.html

[hatrack]

77. I've been driving a plug-in hybrid for three and a half years . . .

I'll never go back to a conventional car. Hoping I won't have to buy another car, but if needed, it'll be an EV. It's a Hyundai Ioniq hatchback, which they (sadly) stopped making after the 2022 model year, and with the tax credit it was about $19,000 and change.

Range on the battery is 30-40 miles, depending on temperature and where I drive, but since most of my miles are in-town, it's hardly ever in hybrid mode. Given that, I'm spending about $10 a month on gasoline. It's fine on long trips as well. We went up to Chicago last month (about 500 miles one-way) and we left home with a full charge and a full tank and still had three bars left on the fuel gauge when we got there.

I just plug into the garage to charge, but it can use public Level 2 charging stations as well.

[Polybius]

79. The Nissan Leaf might be the cheapest EV

Base price of $28,040.

[hatrack]

80. Base price for the new Bolt as of next year is going to be $26,000 and a bit

.

[Polybius]

84. Nice

I'm looking for a good, used EV right now. Nice to see that I have several options.

[hatrack]

93. Bear in mind that used EV prices have spiked (along with prices of most cars) . . .

OTOH, I read recently that the average price for a new car in America in 2021 was $47,000. Just . . . unreal. I can't imagine paying that much for a car.

[EX500rider]

86. Still alot more then the cheapest gas car by quite a bit

2022 Chevrolet Spark LS: $15,695

https://www.cars.com/articles/here-are-the-10-cheapest-new-cars-you-can-buy-right-now-421309/

[EX500rider]

109. For another grand there's the Mitsubishi mirage ES

[EmeraldCoaster]

83. I have a Lucid Air

The most remarkable automobile I have ever driven. Porsche was my previous favorite automaker. Lucid is a game changer, though it is expensive.

[Celerity]

92. The Lucid Motors boss wants to halve the price of the Lucid Air by next year

Swedish first

Lucid Motors-chefen vill halvera priset på Lucid Air till nästa år

https://elbilen.se/nyheter/lucid-motors-chefen-vill-halvera-priset-pa-lucid-air-till-nasta-ar/

Lucid Motors första modell Lucid Air bjuder på spännande teknik, snabb laddning och en imponerande räckvidd på över 80 mil. Men den eldrivna sedanen kommer med ett högt pris. Lanseringsversionen Dream Edition börjar på 169 000 dollar, omkring 1,5 miljoner kronor.

Det är ett pris som Lucid Motors-chefen Peter Rawlinson säger sig vilja halvera till 70 000 dollar, eller lite drygt 600 000 kronor, till slutet av nästa år. – Jag vill inte bygga bilar för rika, säger han i en intervju med den amerikanska nyhetssajten Axios. Utmaning menar han handlar om att få in pengar, hålla sig flytande och kunna investera för att utveckla tekniken.

– Effektivitet är nyckeln. Vår teknologi kommer få ned storleken på batteripaketen i bilen och genom att göra det får vi ned kostnaden och det är så vi kommer fram till en bil för 25 000 dollar, säger han och förutspår att de kommer nå dit inom tre till fyra år.

Men för Lucid Motors själva verkar det inte vara ett segment som intresserar. Istället tror han att andra tillverkare kommer använda sig av deras teknik för att tillverka billigare volymmodeller.

English

Lucid Motors' first model Lucid Air offers exciting technology, fast charging and an impressive range of over 80 miles. But the electric sedan comes with a hefty price tag. The launch version Dream Edition starts at 169,000 dollars, around 1.5 million kroner.

It's a price that Lucid Motors CEO Peter Rawlinson says he wants to halve to $70,000, or a little over SEK 600,000, by the end of next year. - I don't want to build cars for the rich, he says in an interview with the American news site Axios . The challenge, he says, is about bringing in money, staying afloat and being able to invest to develop the technology.

- Efficiency is the key. Our technology will bring down the size of the battery packs in the car and by doing that we bring down the cost and that's how we arrive at a $25,000 car, he says, predicting that they will get there within three to four years.

But for Lucid Motors themselves, it does not seem to be a segment of interest. Instead, he believes that other manufacturers will use their technology to produce cheaper volume models.

Lucid Motors CEO sees $25,000 electric cars in 4 years

https://www.axios.com/2021/12/13/lucid-motors-affordable-electric-cars

[grantcart]

95. That was last year. Lucid has major production problems

It is only producing 20 vehicles a day and only projecting 50 a day next quarter.

If they don't significantly increase production they are unlikely to make it.

[Celerity]

96. yes, just reading about this now, yikes

[Emile]

98. A few years from now we'll have solar powered flying cars.

If Bush hadn't stolen the election from Al Gore we would already be flying them.

[grantcart]

99. Did you see the flying car trial run in Dubai yesterday?

[Emile]

101. No, was it a success?

[grantcart]

113. Yes. Made in China but Dubai first country to issue a license

[JCMach1]

102. GM EV's will be just above 20K MSRP this year, now add in the tax credit

Is 15-20K a good deal on a top flight new vehicle?

Tesla's ain't all that

[shanti]

110. Even a hybrid is better

than a strictly ICE vehicle. That's why I sprung for a 2021 Corolla. Nothing fancy, but it is very economical. If I get another vehicle, it will be all electric.

[MissB]

111. It is for me

But I was able to sell an existing used car and put enough down on my EV (last year) that I ended up with about $35k in a 1% loan (my only debt).

The feds gave me $7500 at tax filing this January for buying an EV last year so that brought the overall cost down to $27,500.

Still expensive but frankly the 1% loan is nothing at this point. I’m making way more than that on the $ I’ve set aside to pay off the entire amount in cash.

The dealer even threw in a free charger. Yes, I had to pay an electrician to come out and install a 220 outlet, but that wasn’t a big cost and I had a kitchen that needed to be wired.

It’s perfect for in town trips. I charge it about once a week.

Edited to add: also, no oil changes. Ever.