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Ilsa

(61,695 posts)
Sat Oct 15, 2022, 06:31 PM Oct 2022

A prolife young man came to my door with a flyer.

I was in a good mood, so I talked to him about why I'm pro-choice:
1. women don't go through 7 months of pregnancy misery and suddenly wake up and make an appointment for an abortion like it was a pedicure.
2. I explained that the vast majority of abortions are first term, and later term abortions are usually due to fetal anomalies incompatible with life.
3. Continuing a pregnancy and raising a child with disabilities can bankrupt a family, and state help isn't consistent between states.
4. I don't want a Washington lawyer who doesn't know the ok of pregnancy, like what an ectopic pregnancy is, making that decision for me and my doctor.
5. If the government can tell you that you must have a baby, then they eventually will have the power to tell you that you can't.
6. I claimed the "prolife" mantle, explaining I am for a woman and her family making these decisions, not the government.

He had an enlightened look on his face.

58 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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A prolife young man came to my door with a flyer. (Original Post) Ilsa Oct 2022 OP
Good job. You go, girl. brush Oct 2022 #1
+1000 Rebl2 Oct 2022 #27
Good for you! Hekate Oct 2022 #2
... emulatorloo Oct 2022 #4
Good on you. I wonder why he was enlightened.. Deuxcents Oct 2022 #3
Thank you for taking the time to speak to him. badhair77 Oct 2022 #5
You have more patience that I do. YDogg Oct 2022 #6
And then when he went home and shared your thoughts with his loving Xtian family Otto_Harper Oct 2022 #7
Good job, but he's probably just some kid making minimum wage to hand out flyers...nt Wounded Bear Oct 2022 #8
Maybe. He introduced himself and said he wanted go talk to me Ilsa Oct 2022 #10
National bans are OK, but personal choice is "extreme" now... Wounded Bear Oct 2022 #17
That's the way you do it. OAITW r.2.0 Oct 2022 #9
On one of my GOTV calls wryter2000 Oct 2022 #18
Truth bombs, kindly inflicted, is the way to change our society. OAITW r.2.0 Oct 2022 #19
But laughter can still be the most effective medicine RVN VET71 Oct 2022 #52
Good Job! MOMFUDSKI Oct 2022 #11
It can't affect their lives as it can a woman wryter2000 Oct 2022 #15
Well done!!!! Karadeniz Oct 2022 #12
Hope it lasts scarletlib Oct 2022 #13
I honestly don't think they understand things like ectopic pregnancy. wryter2000 Oct 2022 #14
Exactly! The reasons behind "life of the mother" are rarely even mentioned Rhiannon12866 Oct 2022 #20
No, they don't understand those things. ShazzieB Oct 2022 #37
That's the way! MiHale Oct 2022 #16
One line of your post especially should have made an impression on him: 70sEraVet Oct 2022 #21
exactly. first thing i thought of was china nt orleans Oct 2022 #22
If the government can tell you that you must have a baby, then they eventually will have the power GoneOffShore Oct 2022 #45
But the extremely overwhelming number of abortions are... GreenWave Oct 2022 #23
By "fetal partner reabsorptions" are you referring to "Vanishing Twin Syndrome" (VTS)? SunSeeker Oct 2022 #46
I am! GreenWave Oct 2022 #48
i lost a baby that way. mopinko Oct 2022 #58
Bravo!!! Delphinus Oct 2022 #24
I also say that ... aggiesal Oct 2022 #25
Well done! FakeNoose Oct 2022 #26
Awesome Joinfortmill Oct 2022 #28
Nice..i might have just cursed him away Demovictory9 Oct 2022 #29
Young...like 20s? 30s? progressoid Oct 2022 #30
"You are a better man than I" Heather MC Oct 2022 #31
Thank You Ilsa spanone Oct 2022 #32
i hope he knocks on your door tomorrow saying barbtries Oct 2022 #33
Yes, I'm prolife, especially when the mother, who may have Ilsa Oct 2022 #38
Good work! paleotn Oct 2022 #34
I'd have been inclined to start by asking him if he'd ever been pregnant PoindexterOglethorpe Oct 2022 #35
70% of abortions are women who identify as Christian. Maggiemayhem Oct 2022 #50
"If govt can say you must have a baby, they'll eventually be able to tell you you can't." Beartracks Oct 2022 #36
Well done!! evolves Oct 2022 #39
Wow Roy Rolling Oct 2022 #40
Good for you! WinstonSmith4740 Oct 2022 #41
Enlightenment NEVER comes easy for the rubes. Thank you for your service though. czarjak Oct 2022 #42
I just ask the pro life people a question. Oldtimeralso Oct 2022 #43
Abortions have been happening for thousands of years. The Jungle 1 Oct 2022 #44
I bow to your patience and fast thinking DFW Oct 2022 #47
Thank you for the vegetarian addition. I ask, "Are you anti-war? Anti death niyad Oct 2022 #51
You have far more patience than I. May your words touch his brain and his niyad Oct 2022 #49
He ain't pro life. He's a forced birther. Voltaire2 Oct 2022 #53
Good work, but I wish we would stop using the term "prolife" judy Oct 2022 #54
He probably never even heard any of those arguments before. calimary Oct 2022 #55
I consider myself well read and up to date on current events etc. but I did not know until Pepsidog Oct 2022 #56
Outstanding! ! CrispyQ Oct 2022 #57

badhair77

(4,218 posts)
5. Thank you for taking the time to speak to him.
Sat Oct 15, 2022, 06:35 PM
Oct 2022

You never know when you may hit a nerve and change a mind.

Otto_Harper

(509 posts)
7. And then when he went home and shared your thoughts with his loving Xtian family
Sat Oct 15, 2022, 06:36 PM
Oct 2022

He probably got beaten for his troubles, and then shunned from his community.

Ilsa

(61,695 posts)
10. Maybe. He introduced himself and said he wanted go talk to me
Sat Oct 15, 2022, 06:43 PM
Oct 2022

about this policy issue. So, I think he was trained or brainwashed or just stupid. He claimed Ds had extreme abortion proposals in the works.

OAITW r.2.0

(24,504 posts)
9. That's the way you do it.
Sat Oct 15, 2022, 06:42 PM
Oct 2022

Have an honest dialogue. They are the ones that ask for the conversation - one on-one - give it to them. Show them the illogical of their premise.

wryter2000

(46,049 posts)
18. On one of my GOTV calls
Sat Oct 15, 2022, 07:09 PM
Oct 2022

I got an older man who thought doctors and women were depriving perfectly healthy babies of food at birth so they die. I just told him politely that doesn't happen, and if it did, they'd be guilty of murder without banning abortion. He didn't become irate or fight back, but I don't know that he believed me.

OAITW r.2.0

(24,504 posts)
19. Truth bombs, kindly inflicted, is the way to change our society.
Sat Oct 15, 2022, 07:17 PM
Oct 2022

We that know different have to explain it to those that are easily duped. Deflate the zeal and the motivation to be humiliated resolves itself.

RVN VET71

(2,690 posts)
52. But laughter can still be the most effective medicine
Sun Oct 16, 2022, 09:20 AM
Oct 2022

As we learned recently when the debate audience laughed at Russian Ron Johnson.

The laughter alone will not unseat the cold-blooded sociopath, of course; but it sure warmed my heart's cockles to see and hear it!

MOMFUDSKI

(5,544 posts)
11. Good Job!
Sat Oct 15, 2022, 06:48 PM
Oct 2022

The key word here is young MAN. He can be pro-life until the cows come home because it will never affect him like it does a young WOMAN. This whole subject leaves me livid.

wryter2000

(46,049 posts)
15. It can't affect their lives as it can a woman
Sat Oct 15, 2022, 07:06 PM
Oct 2022

But what if they lose a sister or mother or wife to an ectopic pregnancy? Besides, what 20 year old man wants to have to support a baby for the next 18 years? I don't mean that to sound trivial. It's not.

wryter2000

(46,049 posts)
14. I honestly don't think they understand things like ectopic pregnancy.
Sat Oct 15, 2022, 07:03 PM
Oct 2022

Or having to wait for a miscarriage of a dead fetus, risking the woman's health and life.

ShazzieB

(16,399 posts)
37. No, they don't understand those things.
Sat Oct 15, 2022, 09:32 PM
Oct 2022

Last edited Tue Oct 18, 2022, 04:32 PM - Edit history (1)

Most contemporary Americans do not take the risks of pregnancy and childbirth anywhere near as seriously as they should.

There was a time when giving birth was a total crapshoot, and everyone knew it. For most of human history, no woman who got pregnant was able to take it for granted that either she or the baby would survive the birth, much less both survive and go on to live healthy lives. The dangers were, of course, greatest for poor women, but no one was exempt. (Case in point: Princess Charlotte of Wales, whose father would later become King George IV, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princess_Charlotte_of_Wales_%281796%E2%80%931817%29?wprov=sfla1)

Modern medicine has now progressed to the point where, with proper medical care, few women die as a result of childbirth and pregnancy, and even babies who are quite premature can often be enabled to survive. This has lulled far too many people into assuming that those risks have been eliminated altogether, which has led to uninformed lawmakers enacting abortion bans that are predicated on the misconception (pun intended) that having babies is a "perfectly safe," routine activity which poses few, if any, risks to either mother or child.

These lawmakers see no need to provide exemptions for risks that they regard as non-existent, and they are both shocked and skeptical when anyone tries to point out situations where saving a woman's life literally depends on terminating the pregnancy she carries.

People who have never entertained the notion that an abortion might ever be necessary to protect a pregnant person's health, much less prevent them from dying, often have a very hard time grasping the fact that this can and does happen, much more often than they ever imagined possible. And so, as the saying goes, here we are.

70sEraVet

(3,503 posts)
21. One line of your post especially should have made an impression on him:
Sat Oct 15, 2022, 07:27 PM
Oct 2022

"If the government can tell you that you must have a baby, then they eventually will have the power to tell you that you can't."

That line conjures images of China's ' one child' policy.
I hadn't heard that line before. Well done!

GoneOffShore

(17,339 posts)
45. If the government can tell you that you must have a baby, then they eventually will have the power
Sun Oct 16, 2022, 04:10 AM
Oct 2022

to tell you that you must donate a kidney, or blood, or bone marrow.

GreenWave

(6,756 posts)
23. But the extremely overwhelming number of abortions are...
Sat Oct 15, 2022, 07:37 PM
Oct 2022

...natural abortions and fetal partner reabsorptions. So if there is a god controlling nature, that god is really aborting like crazy!

GreenWave

(6,756 posts)
48. I am!
Sun Oct 16, 2022, 07:19 AM
Oct 2022

I was worn out from pumpkin harvesting. Should have slept it off, sorry.

One ultrasound tech said she thinks it happens more than 75% of the time,

mopinko

(70,111 posts)
58. i lost a baby that way.
Sun Oct 16, 2022, 02:58 PM
Oct 2022

there were def 2. i felt them, and up to 5 mos i was measuring double, like w twins.
didnt get a us til late 7 mo, and there was only 1. was equal parts saddened and relieved.
this pregnancy followed immediately after i miscarried a set of twins.
just wasnt meant to be. but i get a pang every time i see a pair of twins, esp identical boys. there's an indian couple on my block w a pair of skinny little boys that tickle me but always bring that twinge.

honestly, i wouldnt have survived 2 of this boy, tho it's hard to say how he would have turned out w a twin.

aggiesal

(8,915 posts)
25. I also say that ...
Sat Oct 15, 2022, 08:15 PM
Oct 2022

Just because you're pro-choice does not mean you're pro-abortion.
It means your #6 above.

FakeNoose

(32,639 posts)
26. Well done!
Sat Oct 15, 2022, 08:24 PM
Oct 2022

Also ask these guys why only the men go door-to-door canvassing for anti-abortion, and not the women?

 

Heather MC

(8,084 posts)
31. "You are a better man than I"
Sat Oct 15, 2022, 08:47 PM
Oct 2022

Bravo.
I have no patience for a man who doesn't understand that his place and his ONLY role is to just be GRATEFUL, Every time we women CHOOSE to put our lives on the line to bring life into this world.

And I would have instructed him to go home and hug his mama because she chose to have him.


And that's the only reason Must Always Be ONLY THE BIRTHING PARENTS CHOOSE TO PUSH🤷🏾‍♀️

barbtries

(28,795 posts)
33. i hope he knocks on your door tomorrow saying
Sat Oct 15, 2022, 08:55 PM
Oct 2022

Last edited Sun Oct 16, 2022, 10:35 AM - Edit history (1)

roe, roe, roe your vote!

I'm glad you claimed the "pro-life" moniker. I am on a crusade to get everyone to quit conceding that to people who don't care about women or even currently living human children. "Anti abortion" "Anti Choice" "Pro forced birth" - these can all be employed to describe these assholes.

PoindexterOglethorpe

(25,858 posts)
35. I'd have been inclined to start by asking him if he'd ever been pregnant
Sat Oct 15, 2022, 09:09 PM
Oct 2022

Then ask if he'd ever been pregnant as a result of rape, or incest. Ask him if he'd ever had an ectopic pregnancy. Then ask if he'd ever been pregnant, and the fetus was diagnosed with a condition incompatible with life.

I think it needs to be pounded home to these men that if they can't get pregnant, they have no standing here.

Oh, and all the "pro-life" women who have abortions absolutely need to be outed.

Maggiemayhem

(809 posts)
50. 70% of abortions are women who identify as Christian.
Sun Oct 16, 2022, 08:52 AM
Oct 2022

It is a wedge issue that was successful and now they are shifting to trans children. That study was done by a Christian organization referring to 7 out of ten women.

Beartracks

(12,814 posts)
36. "If govt can say you must have a baby, they'll eventually be able to tell you you can't."
Sat Oct 15, 2022, 09:13 PM
Oct 2022

I paraphrased your quote to be able to share it in my subject line, but wow:
that is a chilling, sobering thought.

==============

WinstonSmith4740

(3,056 posts)
41. Good for you!
Sat Oct 15, 2022, 10:47 PM
Oct 2022

You need to add a corollary to #5. If you allow the government to tell a woman what she can and can't do with her body, you allow the government to tell a man. I've found it especially stops men in their tracks. Expect a lot of "deer in the headlights" responses.

Oldtimeralso

(1,937 posts)
43. I just ask the pro life people a question.
Sat Oct 15, 2022, 10:58 PM
Oct 2022

Do you believe in capital punishment and everyone has answered did so in a positive way. I then went on to point out that they were hippocrites, and most still didn't understand. Those that did accused me of asking a trick question.

 

The Jungle 1

(4,552 posts)
44. Abortions have been happening for thousands of years.
Sat Oct 15, 2022, 11:37 PM
Oct 2022

They are not going to stop because a law is passed.
The abortions will just be dangerous and women will die.
Native Americans preformed abortions with goose quills.
There are many things we could do to reduce the number of abortions.
Just some of the arguments this old man uses.

DFW

(54,387 posts)
47. I bow to your patience and fast thinking
Sun Oct 16, 2022, 06:50 AM
Oct 2022

I would have just asked him if he was a vegetarian (they always answer "no" ), and then asked him if he opposed the death penalty (they always answer "no" ), and then told him he needed to call himself other than "pro-life."

niyad

(113,315 posts)
51. Thank you for the vegetarian addition. I ask, "Are you anti-war? Anti death
Sun Oct 16, 2022, 08:52 AM
Oct 2022

penalty? Pro gun contrrol? NO? Then do not talk to me about "pro-life".

judy

(1,942 posts)
54. Good work, but I wish we would stop using the term "prolife"
Sun Oct 16, 2022, 12:08 PM
Oct 2022

We should stop using right-wing language.
The man is not "pro life", he is "anti choice".
Language matters a great deal...

calimary

(81,272 posts)
55. He probably never even heard any of those arguments before.
Sun Oct 16, 2022, 01:50 PM
Oct 2022

He's probably only heard all the demonization of women who dare to demand autonomy over their own bodies.

He's probably been steeped in the propaganda and has never even had even the most minimal exposure to the other side of the issue.

You gave him A LOT to think about!

BRAVA, Ilsa!!!

I'm actually saving a copy of this. It's SO simple, so comprehensive, so well-thought-out, and so well-presented. Plus, it has the added benefit of being TRUE. THANK YOU! We can all make good use of this list!

Pepsidog

(6,254 posts)
56. I consider myself well read and up to date on current events etc. but I did not know until
Sun Oct 16, 2022, 01:57 PM
Oct 2022

recently that most abortions are first trimester, medically induced by taking a pill.

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