General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsIs Biden wrecking the Chinese semi-conductor industry?
Twitter thread from Jordan Schneider --
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1580889341265469440.html
"The US government's new export controls are wreaking havoc on China's chip industry.
New rules around "US persons" are driving an "industry-wide decapitation."
The following is the translation of a thread posted earlier this week by @lidangzzz.
"Lots of people dont know what happened yesterday.
To put it simply, Biden has forced all Americans working in China to pick between quitting their jobs and losing American citizenship.
Every American executive and engineer working in Chinas semiconductor manufacturing industry resigned yesterday, paralyzing Chinese manufacturing overnight.
One round of sanctions from Biden did more damage than all four years of performative sanctioning under Trump.
Although American semiconductor exporters had to apply for licenses during the Trump years, licenses were approved within a month.
With the new Biden sanctions, all American suppliers of IP blocks, components, and services departed overnight thus cutting off all service [to China].
Long story short, every advanced node semiconductor company is currently facing comprehensive supply cut-off, resignations from all American staff, and immediate operations paralysis.
This is what annihilation looks like: Chinas semiconductor manufacturing industry was reduced to zero overnight. Complete collapse. No chance of survival.
(snip)
Summary from Lam Research, which is involved with these new sanctions:
1. All Chinese advanced computing chip design companies are covered by these sanctions, and TSMC will no longer do any tape-out for them from now on;
2. All autonomous-driving chips will be sanctioned as well;
3. The starting point for this round of sanctions is to go all the way up the food chain and ensure the elimination of all American products and technologies from the entire ecosystem;
4. Any company or individual who violates these sanctions face arrest by the US Department of Justice..
I will stress again:
This round of sanctions means annihilation for Chinas semiconductor industry. This is nothing like the 10+ rounds of performative sanctioning during the Trump years this is a serious act of industry-wide decapitation.
Any Chinese company that survives is a company that hasnt been fully sanctioned yet;
Any fully sanctioned Chinese company is 100% doomed; theres no possibility of survival.
American citizens and permanent residents will predictably vote with their feet."
FWIW, while I think there is certainly a grain of truth in this thread, the impact into the medium term may be a bit overstated.
My guess is that companies like LAM out of an abundance of caution paused servicing in order to make sure they were complying with the law.
The regs, after all, are not intended to stop US firms from working in China behind the cutting edge, and if that is their impact they may be tweaked in the coming months.
That said, executives in China, many of whom do hold US passports, have a very difficult decision to make.
Given that many of China's most successful entrepreneurs in recent years in light of Zero Covid and Xi's leadership have decided to leave the country, these new regs may be the tipping point for a lot of China's most experienced talent in the chip space."
These articles discuss the issue:
https://www.outlookindia.com/international/explained-how-americans-in-chinese-tech-firms-might-have-to-choose-between-us-citizenship-and-job-news-230218
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/13/us/politics/biden-china-technology-semiconductors.html
Funny how Biden is actually being tough on China, and conservatives are worried about it of course.
JoeOtterbein
(7,702 posts)OAITW r.2.0
(24,504 posts)Makes total national security interest to manufacture here. Where's the problem?
WheelWalker
(8,955 posts)MichMan
(11,932 posts)More supply chain disruptions leading to higher inflation ?
Habibi
(3,598 posts)localroger
(3,626 posts)Saying "we should manufacture here" is not a solution, because there is no comparable manufacturing here. It's all done in China. There are no comparable fabs in the US any more. And it costs billions of dollars and takes years to build them up from scratch.
I do business with a company called Parallax which has their own custom CPU called the Propeller. Their second-generation version is fabbed in the US because it's not cutting edge, but even then they had to have the US fabbed chips shipped to China to be packaged in forms that could actually be installed on a circuit board. We simply don't have that stuff here. Building it up will take years. This is going to cause a major short-term disruption in the electronics industry.
It's not clear by what they mean by "non cutting-edge" and that may allow a lot of the stuff consumers use every day to skate but I wouldn't depend on those companies being untouched simply because some people who aren't directly affected by the new rule may act on an abundance of caution and bail anyway.
If China responds to the block on their cutting-edge fabs by blocking access to the non cutting-edge stuff such as Parallax needs to get their chips cased, it will create chaos all across our economy.
littlemissmartypants
(22,689 posts)And they are and show no signs of slowing down. Though many of their products are assembled by factories in China which will probably affect revenue based on this move by the Biden administration.
Happy Hoosier
(7,308 posts)Top tier Fab capability is scheduled to come online in CONUS in the next 2-3 years.
dchill
(38,502 posts)Just as they would be if he was not being tough on them. Conservatives naturally find their way to the state of being "worried" about whatever a Democratic leader does.
TheBlackAdder
(28,205 posts).
Then, upon return, the better firms will pay the tens of thousands to repatriate you.
.
keithbvadu2
(36,816 posts)Pentagon Bans Sale of Chinese Phones on U.S. Military Bases (ZTE)
The Pentagon is moving to stop the sale of Chinese-made phones from Huawei Technologies Co. and ZTE Corp. in and near U.S. military base stores for potential security threats they say the devices could pose.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/pentagon-bans-sale-of-chinese-phones-on-us-military-bases
https://www.democraticunderground.com/10142050357
--------------------
ZTE
"Too many jobs in China lost," Trump tweeted... Such concern!
https://www.democraticunderground.com/10142058871
http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/387515-schumer-hits-trump-for-offering-aid-to-chinese-company-how-about-helping
Senate Republicans drop bid to block Trump from helping Chinese telecom giant ZTE
https://www.democraticunderground.com/10142115196
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/senate-republicans-cave-to-trump-on-deal-with-chinese-telecom-giant-zte/2018/07/20/28ae5820-8c3f-11e8-8aea-86e88ae760d8_story.html
--------------------
UPDATED: Trump pledges to help Chinese phonemaker ZTE 'get back into business'
https://www.democraticunderground.com/10142058783
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2018/05/13/trump-pledges-to-help-chinese-phone-maker-zte-get-back-into-business/?utm_term=.7f2fcafb7710
ZTE, a company involved in hacking American cyber security.
A $500 million loan to Trump related projects works wonders to make America protect Chinese jobs. And some patents for Ivanka.
Too bad our coal miners did not think of that.
SheltieLover
(57,073 posts)littleredhen
(17 posts)Honestly I dont care about wrecking them taking our technology then making bank on it. That needs to happen more often
Dark Brandon brings American jobs back home
https://www.npr.org/2022/08/03/1114964240/new-battery-technology-china-vanadium
robbob
(3,531 posts)You cant revoke someones citizenship just because they are living and working abroad, even if theyre working in a country thats being sanctioned,
can you?
ancianita
(36,060 posts)Duppers
(28,125 posts)Mariana
(14,857 posts)ancianita
(36,060 posts)If those executives and engineers are on their way back to the U.S., our 'made in America' semiconductor turnaround will be faster than we think.
Of course the president's and our party's opponents -- who like to call us 'commies' -- are worried.
They and 'dear leader' are witnessing the real art of the real Big Fuckin' Deal.
Thank you for this post.
Johnny2X2X
(19,066 posts)He doesnt have to make a big deal out everything. In fact, strategically it makes better sense to be hush hush about things like this and talk about generalities. This was a huge impact deal.
Trump cut awful deals with China and then bragged that hes being tough on them even as they laughed at us.
dalton99a
(81,513 posts)Buckeyeblue
(5,499 posts)If that's the case Biden should do the same thing for US corporations using India businesses as off shore resources. My understanding is that India is also supporting Russia.
LymphocyteLover
(5,644 posts)I think India has maintained ties and trade with Russia but has criticized the war in Ukraine, FWIW