Old Russian Parable

[grantcart]

How to explain something that has been endemic to the Russian soul and seems to be guiding Russian decision making for the last 103 years as Russia has made one morbidly bad decision after another?

During my first day of Russian history the Professor, who was an expert on Soviet history and worked at the DIA, told this parable. He said, "Whenever you read something about Russian or Soviet history that appears to make no sense remember this parable and it will become clear

Two Russian peasants lived next to each other on identical plots in the desolate Russian steppes.

Everything that the two Russians had mirrored each other. Their ramshackle hut, their pathetic potato garden, their outside latrine, all identical except one had a miserable goat that provided a little milk that the one peasant made into cheese which he shared with his neighbor.

One day the other peasant was foraging for mushrooms when he found an ancient lantern. He took out the lantern and polished it up and a Genie appeared and told him, "I have been trapped in that lantern for more than a thousand years and for giving me my freedom you will get one wish." The peasant was quiet and said, "If I only get one wish then I want to make sure that it is the right one, please come back tomorrow and I will tell you my wish".

Exactly at noon the Genie returns and the peasant says, "I know my deepest desire. This is my wish. Do you see my neighbor tending his potato garden?"

"Yes", says the Genie.

"Do you see that old goat that is next to him? He gives him milk and companionship".

"Yes, I see the goat, what is your wish?".

"Kill the goat".

In this extremely moving thread https://www.democraticunderground.com/100217256858 DUer Blue-Wave tells us that the composer of the Kherson orchestra was murdered because he refused an order by the Russians to hold a concert.

Link to tweet

It is in this one completely senseless crime that we see a tragic element that has come to dominate the Russian soul and explains the entire war.

There are geopolitical reasons for a Russian occupation of Crimea including the 500 year Russian ambition to have a good warm water port.

But the real reason is that Putin cannot stand to have a neighbor that is more righteous, more well liked, more respected and enjoys more freedom and democracy than Russia. And then Ukraine had the audacity to elect a President that is more of a leader, more respected and is bringing the country more to a European standard than Russia. He knows that as Ukraine flourished he would be found wanting.

Putin could have done many great things. In the end he just wanted to kill his neighbors goat.

[PlanetBev]

1. Or as Colbert often says

…..is potato 🥔

[TheBlackAdder]

32. That's why USA hit its pinnacle. Shitters, envious of neighbors tear down instead of build together.

.

Most of us share the same common plight, but instead of working together to make everyone's lives easier, people will fight with others who are just trying to survive, instead of working against those who are trying to keep them oppressed.

.

[2naSalit]

35. +1

[betsuni]

2. K&R

[SheltieLover]

3. Russia has never been anything but a terrorist state!

Such a shame the composer was killed. But he died with dignity, refusing to celebrate the madman's illegal activities.



Ty for sharing.

[mahina]

7. I don't know about never

It’s old

But it sure is now.

God bless him.

Have you been catching Timothy Snyder‘s lectures on the modern history of Ukraine? Every Tuesday and Thursday a kind DUer posts in the video channel. You can also Google it and find it. it’s a pretty interesting series. I had no idea how complicated everything was there through the middle ages with Poland, Greece, the Ottoman empire and Rus. Vikings even!

[SheltieLover]

9. Well at least in modern world history anyway.

Hence the formation of NATO.

No, I've not heard Snyder's lectures. Thx for sharing! I'll check them out!

[mahina]

13. Oh you bet.

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLh9mgdi4rNewfxO7LhBoz_1Mx1MaO6sw_

[SheltieLover]

15. Amazes me the companies doing business there.

Ty for link!

[OnDoutside]

25. Check out American companies doing business with Hitler...plus

ça change....

[SheltieLover]

27. Oh I know!

Bayer...

[electric_blue68]

11. I'll have to look... Been Hearing Prof T Snyder on public radio. Caught some of his tweets etc ty

[mahina]

12. You'll recognize him from Rachel Maddow show that's the author of the fabulous book,On Tyrrany

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLh9mgdi4rNewfxO7LhBoz_1Mx1MaO6sw_

[electric_blue68]

19. Hmmmm Maybe I did hear him on Rachel's show first I listen to the show

[ShazzieB]

24. Oh, yes!

I've seen him on her show, more than once. He always has very interesting things to say.

I own a copy of the graphic edition of On Tyranny. It's a very thought-provoking book.

[cilla4progress]

22. Ive listened to or read some of his

and others.

Kiev the nationstate predates Rus, which became Russia. (oversimplification).

And yes Vikings..well, they left their genetic material all over Europe.

[ms liberty]

4. K&R. n/t

[cilla4progress]

5. But you don't shed light on why, grantcart.

Why are their souls twisted, as you say?

[grantcart]

8. Well

I would say that Russia culture has always cultivated greatness, literature, ballet, architecture. But there are inherent limits to its strengths caused by location and climate that has fostered a long held inferiority complex.

Arnold Toynbee constructed a useful historical interpretation theory of history called "The Challenge and Response Theory of History". He postulates that if humans live in an area that has no strong challenges for human propagation, like the tropical islands, then there isn't enough challenge to force people to move into feudal and national development. You can simply feed your family by catching fish and eating mangoes that grow abundantly. On the other hand if the challenges are too great, like the native people in the arctic areas then all of your organization is to kill the walrus, feast for a few days and then rest for the next big hunt.is a

In moderate temperatures like Europe, China and Japan there is a balance which is best suited to develop strong feudal leadership that would evolve into nations. In Europe and Japan you had to have organized agriculture to accumulate food for the winter. Once the winter set in that organization could be used to develop culture, art, religion and the military arts.

In China you have the flooding of the Yangtse River. It required organization to manage the water and then there would be a rest time while the rice grew. When you fly into Bangkok you can see thousands of miles of canals that were built over hundreds of years that became an irrigation system, a transportation system and a communication system. It was built by corvee labor, all Thai males had to go work for the local prince after rice planting and return during the harvest.

Russia has always competed with Europe, China and Japan. Its loss to Japan in the war of 1905 was the begining of the end of Czarist Russia. Its military loss to Japan was echoed by the thrashing it got from Germany in WWII, only the crushing winter saved them. China's unfettered market is driving its population to a higher standard of living than Russians. Singapore, which has no natural resources has per capita GDP of $ 56,000 in 4th place. Russia is ranked 57th with a per capita GDP of $ 10,000. Without its vast oil and gas revenues it would be in the 80s behind the Dominican Republic. And remember this per capita which averages the rich and the poor and with the tremendous disparities with the oligarchs it means that there are tens of millions of Russians who are on a subsistance footing.

If you accept Toynbee's analysis then the answer could be that Russia is always a step behind because their climate creates additional stress in comparison to other more moderate areas. In any case and for whatever reason Russia has a very pronounced inferiority complex and as Ukraine moves to integrate into the evolving modern European Community they are embarassed at the comparison.

[cilla4progress]

20. Fascinating -

Appreciate the analysis!!

[burrowowl]

29. Interesting analysis

[speak easy]

31. "Its loss to Japan in the war of 1905 was the begining of the end ..."

... and history rhymes.

[Buckeyeblue]

41. Great post!

[grantcart]

44. Tks

[AllyCat]

6. Bookmarking. This is excellent.

I cannot understand how so much Russian culture seems to be like this. All I have to go on so what I read. I have never been there, don’t know the language, and the only Russians I know did everything they could to ESCAPE Russia.

Why do they make their lives miserable by making everyone else’s lives miserable too?

[grantcart]

38. Tks

[moondust]

10. Moral wasteland.

When the era of Communist rule began in Russia in 1917, religion was seen as a hindrance to a thriving socialist society. As Karl Marx, coauthor of the The Communist Manifesto, declared, “Communism begins where atheism begins.”

Joseph Stalin, as the second leader of the Soviet Union, tried to enforce militant atheism on the republic. The new “socialist man,” Stalin argued, was an atheist one, free of the religious chains that had helped to bind him to class oppression. From 1928 until World War II, when some restrictions were relaxed, the totalitarian dictator shuttered churches, synagogues and mosques and ordered the killing and imprisonment of thousands of religious leaders in an effort to eliminate even the concept of God.

~

Why Stalin Tried to Stamp Out Religion in the Soviet Union

For more than a century now I believe there has been little to no moral teaching in Russia. No Ten Commandments. No Seven Deadly Sins. No Golden Rule/Do Unto Others. Etc. Many populations elsewhere learn that stuff as kids in church/Sunday school. The communists didn't want competition from churches for the hearts and minds of the population. Russians have been so propagandized first by the communists for a century and then continued by former communist KGB man Putin up to the present day that I just don't think there is much moral fabric there to restrain their worst instincts. And so they're bombing playgrounds and hospitals and schools and apartment buildings and killing a conductor and anybody else who is not okay with their barbarism.

K/R

[electric_blue68]

14. It's Not every Russian. There have protests, and arrests in Russia against this war

[moondust]

17. True.

It's a good sign that has surprised me. Plus the long lines of escapees crossing the borders to escape the war. There has been progress and I tend to give considerable credit to the Internet for many there and in Iran and elsewhere discovering how much of the world lives outside their autocratic bubbles.

[MustLoveBeagles]

18. +1

[cilla4progress]

21. Um, I'm an atheist and I don't believe that

accepting the reality of a god figure or a religion based on that is necessary to live a moral life or be an ethical person.

I was raised a humanist in the "Ethical Culture Society."

I do believe in the Golden Rule.

My moral system is based on the belief that we are all connected - non-sentient as well as sentient.

[Buckeyeblue]

42. I agree. The golden rule doesn't require a god. It's about cohabitation in a meaningful way.

[SunSeeker]

28. Stalin's attempt to stamp out religion did not work. Putin learned from Stalin's mistakes.

Putin recognized that Russians hold their religion dear, having clung to it all through communism, so he decided to embrace religion to ingratiate himself to his people. This has made the Eastern Orthotox Church (the predominant religion in Russia) quite powerful in Russia. Putin has been on an Eastern Orthodox church and cathedral building spree.

There is plenty of moral and religious teaching in Russia. Lack of moral teaching is not the problem. Putin's lies are the problem.

Most of the regular working class people in Russia believe Putin's lies. There is no free press to contradict him. The average Russian truly believes Ukrainians are Nazis and puppets of NATO who seek to destroy Russia. So they have no qualms about slaughtering Ukrainians.

[grantcart]

37. He couldn't even stamp it out in his own family.

His daughter Svetlana was actively religious after she escaped to the west.

She was a devout and active Catholic.

[MustLoveBeagles]

16. Bookmarked

[Hekate]

23. KnR, grantcart

[blue-wave]

26. +1000 Oh Yes! You just explained the

mentality of the whole war from the Kremlin's perspective. "If I can't have it or don't possess the skills to acquire it, you can't have it either."

Religion refers to it as malicious envy. One of the 7 deadly sins. Some consider it the worst of the 7 sins.

On edit, taken from Wikipedia: envy has been associated directly with the devil, for Wisdom 2:24 states: "the envy of the devil brought death to the world".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_deadly_sins

Thanks for the plug!!

[SunSeeker]

30. "He knows that as Ukraine flourished he would be found wanting."

Ukrainians themselves have been saying this of Putin, and they should know.

That really is the reason for the war, in a nutshell.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

33. Exactly RepubliCON and MAGAt reasoning: "he" is against the same people I'm against

They are incapable of useful governing.

They can tear down regulations willy-nilly. They can defund things. They can attack things ferociously in opposition. It's why they are against affirmative action, early childhood education, art and music programs, school libraries, and a hundred and one good things that help people who are not like them, who are the "other", ... people who are not christian or are not white or are not overtly hetero.

But they are unable to reform health care despite having House, Senate, and Presidency two years recently. As just one glaring example. After attacking it viciously for years.

[brer cat]

34. K&R

Thank you for sharing, grantcart.

[eppur_se_muova]

36. Try googling "wish my neighbor's cow would die" and you'll get many hits on a similar version.

I posted a version some time ago but DU's search function can't locate it -- an unfortunately common experience.

I first read about this in one of Hedrick Smith's books, IIRC.

[crickets]

39. Wow.

"Putin could have done many great things. In the end he just wanted to kill his neighbors goat."

That does explain a lot.

K&R for the post and the discussion.

[3auld6phart]

40. That

potato with the close set eyes is definitely a loser. The Russian Armies throughout history
has been nothing to write home about. Outside of sheer numbers or getting shot in the
back if they retreat . USA lend lease during WW2 saved their asses.

[grantcart]

43. Saving their asses during WWII was in our self interest, it made it easier to invade France

When we saved their asses in 1921 is more remarkable as it was done without any self interest or hope of payback

One of the worst disasters in civilization occurred in 1921 when the Soviet Union ran out of grains. Close to 100,000 people were dying a week and the US organized a massive shipment of wheat and corn to the SU. Even so close to 10 million died.

Ten years later between 1931 and 1934 the forced agricultural collectivization created an entirely artificial famine. Stalin took his main revenge on Ukraine which had resisted collectivization (because they knew it wouldn't work) and confiscated all of their food. Close to 4 million Ukrainians died of starvation. This is why they will never negotiate, the lived under a Moscow government before and suffered under genocidal conditions. They know that in the future that if they were controlled by Moscow and built up wealth and assets that Putin would starve them just as Stalin did.

[yardwork]

45. Fascinating thread thank you.

[niyad]

46. KNR and bookmarking.