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fightforfreedom

(4,913 posts)
Sun Oct 16, 2022, 11:33 AM Oct 2022

In my opinion, as still a fairly young nation, we must go through the pain of convicting a

guilty ex-president. I see it as part of our nations growing pains. We have seen all the loopholes Trump exposed in our laws and our constitution. We as a nation still have some growing up to do.

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In my opinion, as still a fairly young nation, we must go through the pain of convicting a (Original Post) fightforfreedom Oct 2022 OP
Pain? I am thinking exhilaration. Sneederbunk Oct 2022 #1
You know what I mean. It will be an ugly process. fightforfreedom Oct 2022 #2
I will feel exhilarated. It will be needed to assuage the pain caused by Trump's Aristus Oct 2022 #18
At least we're not beheading our rulers, or burning them at the stake. sop Oct 2022 #3
Not yet, maybe. But you know trump wanted to have that power...nt Wounded Bear Oct 2022 #4
Maybe Traildogbob Oct 2022 #8
I'd be OK with crucifixion. Justice matters. Oct 2022 #27
I'm not sure Traildogbob Oct 2022 #31
No, but they did try to hang their own vice president. onecaliberal Oct 2022 #17
The "rule of law" is for the unwashed masses. rubbersole Oct 2022 #5
I think this is cilla4progress Oct 2022 #6
K&R. & Highly recommended. William769 Oct 2022 #7
I would like to know DownriverDem Oct 2022 #9
I agree. I want to ask what their real beliefs are versus Republican propaganda. Lonestarblue Oct 2022 #24
It's a cult of personality and they are deep down the Babbit hole. G2theD Oct 2022 #29
Endgame goals? Here: Celerity Oct 2022 #35
DOJ Snackshack Oct 2022 #10
I think seeing TFG face consequences will do this country a world of good in the long run. ShazzieB Oct 2022 #11
The cancer is spreading and what happens in 2024 if Rs succeed in throwing the election to the House Pepsidog Oct 2022 #21
What's the alternative? /rhetorical question ShazzieB Oct 2022 #40
I agree fight like hell but let's all recognize the issues involved. Sure most on DU understand how Pepsidog Oct 2022 #42
If Gerald Ford hadn't pardoned Nixon AdamGG Oct 2022 #12
This message was self-deleted by its author Upthevibe Oct 2022 #13
AdamGG .............. Upthevibe Oct 2022 #16
Exactly... Ohioboy Oct 2022 #14
fightforfreedom..... Upthevibe Oct 2022 #15
The only painful part may be the violence G2theD Oct 2022 #19
I agree, but will they have the courage to do it? From the public record the decision to charge is Pepsidog Oct 2022 #20
Lawrence Tribe, who knows Garland well G2theD Oct 2022 #23
But the executive will still be blue and the DOJ will still do it's job. G2theD Oct 2022 #26
I was thinking more about how Rs will run a three ring circus investigating every crazy Q conspiracy Pepsidog Oct 2022 #28
They will be wasting their time. The DOJ will do what is right. G2theD Oct 2022 #30
Assuming lack of courage would be behind a negotiated surrender Hortensis Oct 2022 #33
Pain is the corrrect word. patphil Oct 2022 #22
Millions of rabid supporters... Boomerproud Oct 2022 #34
"Convicting?" BlackSkimmer Oct 2022 #25
Letting the criminals get away with it will doom the country. FoxNewsSucks Oct 2022 #32
Agree In Principle ProfessorGAC Oct 2022 #36
Yes, it was only a matter of time before there was a ruthless psychopath in the White House. Irish_Dem Oct 2022 #37
Well said. Hopefully we are up to the task. nt wiggs Oct 2022 #38
We are not a young nation edhopper Oct 2022 #39
The only pain is that traitortrump was illegally in possession of Top Secret docs and is still free. Hermit-The-Prog Oct 2022 #41
This won't happen dwayneb Oct 2022 #43
 

fightforfreedom

(4,913 posts)
2. You know what I mean. It will be an ugly process.
Sun Oct 16, 2022, 11:47 AM
Oct 2022

Of course many will celebrate big time. DU will erupt with joy. Myself, I will party my ass off.

Aristus

(66,369 posts)
18. I will feel exhilarated. It will be needed to assuage the pain caused by Trump's
Sun Oct 16, 2022, 12:56 PM
Oct 2022

ruination of our previously unbroken record for peaceful transfers of executive power. With so many things wrong with our country, I could at least be proud of that. And Trump shit on it, like he shits on everything else.

Throw him under the jail and have done...

Traildogbob

(8,739 posts)
8. Maybe
Sun Oct 16, 2022, 12:31 PM
Oct 2022

Some consequences strong enough to deter repeats. That fat man would burn for a month. Let’s save the air quality and go with beheading. Let his cult keep the head and they can charge cash to fix his hair everyday. Some money to pay off his attorney fees.

Justice matters.

(6,929 posts)
27. I'd be OK with crucifixion.
Sun Oct 16, 2022, 02:12 PM
Oct 2022

To prove his Fascist Qult he's not their "orange jesus" when he won't resurrect three days later.

Traildogbob

(8,739 posts)
31. I'm not sure
Sun Oct 16, 2022, 02:28 PM
Oct 2022

How many times have we thought, “this is the one, this will end him” and he resurrects right back to the top of the news every damn time? He is a stink we will never rid ourself of. However he goes, I hope it is really damn painful to him and his spawn. Like being broke and standing in line at soup kitchens with not a damn dime of our taxes supporting his fat ass. Let him eat condiment packs of ketchup in hot Flint quality water.

onecaliberal

(32,861 posts)
17. No, but they did try to hang their own vice president.
Sun Oct 16, 2022, 12:53 PM
Oct 2022

Went so far as to guild a gallows on the capitol grounds to do it in public fashion. Trump want congress people to be killed so he could seize the presidency that he LOST by a historical number of votes. To be fair, the tick never won the popular vote.

rubbersole

(6,690 posts)
5. The "rule of law" is for the unwashed masses.
Sun Oct 16, 2022, 11:56 AM
Oct 2022

Rarely the ruling class. Occasionally, if they're caught engaging in moral terpitude, extreme violence (w/weapons), quantities of white powder or salacious newsworthy behavior they will face legal jeopardy.

DownriverDem

(6,228 posts)
9. I would like to know
Sun Oct 16, 2022, 12:38 PM
Oct 2022

the top 3 things righties want? I don't agree with them, but if I knew I could at least understand them better.

Lonestarblue

(9,990 posts)
24. I agree. I want to ask what their real beliefs are versus Republican propaganda.
Sun Oct 16, 2022, 02:05 PM
Oct 2022

In many cases, they’re identical because some people just react by adopting what they’re told by someone who reinforces their existing biases and beliefs. We all seek out affirmation of what we believe.

But I want them to describe not only the exact change they want but also how they think the government should deal with major issues facing the country. Among those issues are these:

1. Over 99% of the world’s climate scientists have conducted studies measuring the impacts of climate warming, including the faster-than-expected melting of glaciers, the warming of ocean temperatures that make hurricanes more destructive, and the loss of marine life as water becomes too warm for their survival. The cost of rebuilding after major storms is now in the many billions. What would they do to address climate warming, how would they pay for it, and how would they prevent future damages?

2. Millions of Americans lack access to affordable healthcare or any healthcare at all. Texas leads the country with the largest number of citizens with no health insurance because Republicans refuse to expand Medicaid. In addition, “The share of the nonelderly population with employer-sponsored health insurance fell by more than 8 percentage points between 1998 and 2018, from 67% to 58%.” https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/brief/long-term-trends-in-employer-based-coverage/

So around 43% of workers are unable to get healthcare through their employers. Some get coverage through Medicaid, others through Obamacare. Millions go without, leaving them vulnerable to preventable diseases. How would they resolve this problem, and who is to pay for it when poor people cannot afford it because they earn too little?

3. The US immigration laws do not work. Legal immigration to the US has something like a 10-year backlog. While many people want no immigrants to be allowed, employers need immigrants to keep the economy moving. How would they change immigration laws when a significant majority of the population favors immigration but a significant minority does not?

Those are only three of the many issues facing the US, and I truly would like to see a discussion of of these issues among conservatives who oppose all three with moderators who can bring out facts and push for responses based on real conditions instead of the imaginary ones we think they believe in but don’t truly know exactly what they want. Too often, the media just reports the political views of the right wing without demanding how they would make change in a country as diverse as ours.

My mental image of the right wing has long been of a group watching their house burn but refusing to call the Fire Department because they’re been told it isn’t real. I know that’s more the MAGA cult, but there’s a big middle of non-MAGA Independents who lean Republican who are most likely not as reactive as the MAGAs. Perhaps it would help to hear from them.

G2theD

(593 posts)
29. It's a cult of personality and they are deep down the Babbit hole.
Sun Oct 16, 2022, 02:17 PM
Oct 2022

They want TFG back, that’s the extent of their thinking. They trust that the Mango Messiah will protect them and whatever else he does is golden because he is the daddy they never had and he is always right. That’s the way a cult works. Seems crazy, but it’s true.

Celerity

(43,381 posts)
35. Endgame goals? Here:
Sun Oct 16, 2022, 03:07 PM
Oct 2022

1. Complete (as much as is possible given the technological constraints of the given time horizon) socioeconomic, sociocultural, and sociopolitical control for a very small group of white male (with white females still subservient) systemic controllers over the US, and to eventually extend that control as far globally as is possible.

2. Deportation, and/or chattel enslavement, and/or death for most all PoC and LGBTQ (with token exceptions to maintain illusions/delusions).

3. The continued warping and remaking of their totalitarian fascist brand of RW Christianity, with the ultimate goal over the decades/centuries to place the systemic controllers themselves within its pantheon of gods, all combined with the systemic controllers' real life attempts at one of the ultimate qualities of a 'god', that being immortality (they bank on life extension technology aiding them until they possibly find the holy grail, the eradication of the human ageing process along with perma renewal to a gentic enhanced eternal prime state of fitness plus enhanced abilities).


Snackshack

(2,541 posts)
10. DOJ
Sun Oct 16, 2022, 12:39 PM
Oct 2022

Needs to get over the fact that a criminally negligent, narcissist fucking conman became president by very dubious means and apply the law to a criminally negligent, narcissist fucking conman. It’s that simple.

ShazzieB

(16,399 posts)
11. I think seeing TFG face consequences will do this country a world of good in the long run.
Sun Oct 16, 2022, 12:42 PM
Oct 2022

In the short run, it'll be messy as hell, his followers will make sure of it. But I don't see how our democracy can ever fully heal until the malignant tumor known as Donald J. Trump has been fully excised.

The cancer has already begun to metastasize, but I think the patient can still be saved as long as aggressive treatment is administered without too much more delay.

Pepsidog

(6,254 posts)
21. The cancer is spreading and what happens in 2024 if Rs succeed in throwing the election to the House
Sun Oct 16, 2022, 01:19 PM
Oct 2022

that delivers the Presidency to a Republican in spite of losing by 10 million or more votes? A repeat of the 2020 election is almost assured as is Rs attempt to literally steal the election. The difference this time will be Red States will know the plan and SCOTUS is softening the battlefield to deliver the election to the Republican candidate. Is this scenario even voidable at this point?

ShazzieB

(16,399 posts)
40. What's the alternative? /rhetorical question
Sun Oct 16, 2022, 06:19 PM
Oct 2022

Either we fight like hell or we surrender to the Trumpistas and the rest of the GOP and let them have their way with this country. Surrender is NOT an option, afaic.

We still have a chance right now. I refuse to entertain the notion that we don't, because DOING SO WOULD SERVE NO PURPOSE. The kind of defeatism you're peddling also SERVES NO PURPOSE.

Go ahead and give up if that's what you want to do. No one's stopping you. You have that right. Deliberately trying to demoralize others? Hell, no. Go peddle that stuff somewhere else.

Pepsidog

(6,254 posts)
42. I agree fight like hell but let's all recognize the issues involved. Sure most on DU understand how
Sun Oct 16, 2022, 10:02 PM
Oct 2022

TFG tried to steal the election but the vast majority of Americans do not understand the mechanics of the steal. So yes we have 2 years to prepare for the fight ahead. My post was not meant to concede 2024 but to accept the fact that Republicans will try to steal 2024 no matter how lopsided the popular vote.

AdamGG

(1,291 posts)
12. If Gerald Ford hadn't pardoned Nixon
Sun Oct 16, 2022, 12:45 PM
Oct 2022

we may have had the benefit of having a more established precedent for this. And, Nixon's crimes were like shoplifting a candy bar compared to Trump's.

Response to AdamGG (Reply #12)

Upthevibe

(8,051 posts)
16. AdamGG ..............
Sun Oct 16, 2022, 12:50 PM
Oct 2022

....Very good point......

I FIRMLY believe (without any proof - it's just my opinion) that Ford agreed to pardon Nixon before he became President....



Ohioboy

(3,243 posts)
14. Exactly...
Sun Oct 16, 2022, 12:48 PM
Oct 2022

We made it through the civil war when the nation was tested by division, and we'll make it through our current situation IF we stick to our principles.

Sticking to our principles means not letting guilty ex-presidents get away with trying to "steal" an election, which TFG was trying to do.

G2theD

(593 posts)
19. The only painful part may be the violence
Sun Oct 16, 2022, 01:09 PM
Oct 2022

But my pain will be assuaged when they start shooting the traitors.

Pepsidog

(6,254 posts)
20. I agree, but will they have the courage to do it? From the public record the decision to charge is
Sun Oct 16, 2022, 01:10 PM
Oct 2022

easy. I think Dems have the courage and so far DOJ has convicted or turned a good number of people. God forbid the House goes Red, we will formally become a banana republic.

G2theD

(593 posts)
23. Lawrence Tribe, who knows Garland well
Sun Oct 16, 2022, 02:04 PM
Oct 2022

and was his professor at Harvard Law is sure he will indict. He said Garland strongly believes than no one is above the law and when he thinks he has an ironclad case, and after the midterms, he will indict him for both the documents and the obstruction thereof, and the J6 plot to reverse the will of the people in the 2020 election. I hope he’s right!!

G2theD

(593 posts)
26. But the executive will still be blue and the DOJ will still do it's job.
Sun Oct 16, 2022, 02:09 PM
Oct 2022

And if they only win the house and not the senate they won’t be able to convict Biden on impeachment and Biden can stop any bill because they won’t have a big enough majority to override a veto. It will be a stalemate.

Pepsidog

(6,254 posts)
28. I was thinking more about how Rs will run a three ring circus investigating every crazy Q conspiracy
Sun Oct 16, 2022, 02:17 PM
Oct 2022

they can imagine. Just imagine Jordan or MTG or other Qpublicans having congressional hearings on any one of their demented beliefs from election fraud to pizzagate.

G2theD

(593 posts)
30. They will be wasting their time. The DOJ will do what is right.
Sun Oct 16, 2022, 02:20 PM
Oct 2022

If they actually uncover a crime, fine, but their charges seem pretty dubious for the most part.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
33. Assuming lack of courage would be behind a negotiated surrender
Sun Oct 16, 2022, 02:35 PM
Oct 2022

is exactly what MAGAs and other among the anger-driven anti-Democratic hoards do. Great company for those who decide to lie with it. Includes those who rush to assume corruption in all of "them," and of course the eternal, absolutely un-believable levels of stupidity and ignorance.

There are other reasons in individual situations where the seeming "weaker" action may be both wiser and stronger.

The MAGAs were enraged when Bush 1 and the rest of the coalition agreed to a negotiated surrender with Iraq without invasion and takeover (which Bush II used as a major excuse for the invasion of Iraq in the Second Gulf War). They saw it, as MAGA and other hard-right types always do, as weakness and cowardice, and insisted that without mass invasion, smashing of all resistance, and requiring unconditional surrender Iraq would just do it again. This was to be followed, of course, by the victor's appropriate vengeance, even though sacking defeated nations is considered a war crime; as Strongman Trump' insisted virtuously, "We should have taken the oil." Impoverished Iraq's only big resource.

The MAGA notion of "courage," and no wonder they admire Putin and tRump and despise the kind of people we elect.

patphil

(6,176 posts)
22. Pain is the corrrect word.
Sun Oct 16, 2022, 01:40 PM
Oct 2022

It will be a celebration for many of us here, but the aftermath will be very ugly. TFG has millions of rabid supporters. They'll create the national pain with their rage.
I know it has to be done, but I'm not looking forward to the ugly that will follow.

ProfessorGAC

(65,042 posts)
36. Agree In Principle
Sun Oct 16, 2022, 03:33 PM
Oct 2022

However, is the US really that "young"?
How many other countries in the industrial era are still using the same basic governmental & economic constructs for 225 years?
Even England was actually ruled by the king, with consent of parliament, 225 years ago. It's not that way now. The monarch is a figurehead.
Same with some other European royalty nations.
Germany, Italy & Japan are only around 75 years old. China isn't even the same China Mao left behind.
I agree that prosecution of crimes needs to be done no matter the level of the miscreant.
I just don't think it's a "young country" issue.

Irish_Dem

(47,081 posts)
37. Yes, it was only a matter of time before there was a ruthless psychopath in the White House.
Sun Oct 16, 2022, 05:10 PM
Oct 2022

Being the most powerful person in the world with unlimited power and wealth is way too tempting for criminals.

How the US handles this crisis will be a defining moment in our history.

edhopper

(33,580 posts)
39. We are not a young nation
Sun Oct 16, 2022, 05:27 PM
Oct 2022

We have one of the oldest governments on earth. Our government wasc100 years old when much of Europe was giving up their monarchies.
We can't blame the possible collapse of our democracy on growing pains.

dwayneb

(768 posts)
43. This won't happen
Sun Oct 16, 2022, 10:27 PM
Oct 2022

Of course that would be justice. But our system of justice is weakening by the day here in the USA. If the Fascists win control of Congress in the fall, they will set the stage for seizing power in 2024, one way or the other.

And when that happens, America as we once knew it will be finished. 2022 may very well be the last free and fair election we see in our lifetimes.

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