General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsIn my opinion, as still a fairly young nation, we must go through the pain of convicting a
guilty ex-president. I see it as part of our nations growing pains. We have seen all the loopholes Trump exposed in our laws and our constitution. We as a nation still have some growing up to do.
Sneederbunk
(14,291 posts)fightforfreedom
(4,913 posts)Of course many will celebrate big time. DU will erupt with joy. Myself, I will party my ass off.
Aristus
(66,369 posts)ruination of our previously unbroken record for peaceful transfers of executive power. With so many things wrong with our country, I could at least be proud of that. And Trump shit on it, like he shits on everything else.
Throw him under the jail and have done...
sop
(10,185 posts)Wounded Bear
(58,656 posts)Some consequences strong enough to deter repeats. That fat man would burn for a month. Lets save the air quality and go with beheading. Let his cult keep the head and they can charge cash to fix his hair everyday. Some money to pay off his attorney fees.
Justice matters.
(6,929 posts)To prove his Fascist Qult he's not their "orange jesus" when he won't resurrect three days later.
Traildogbob
(8,739 posts)How many times have we thought, this is the one, this will end him and he resurrects right back to the top of the news every damn time? He is a stink we will never rid ourself of. However he goes, I hope it is really damn painful to him and his spawn. Like being broke and standing in line at soup kitchens with not a damn dime of our taxes supporting his fat ass. Let him eat condiment packs of ketchup in hot Flint quality water.
onecaliberal
(32,861 posts)Went so far as to guild a gallows on the capitol grounds to do it in public fashion. Trump want congress people to be killed so he could seize the presidency that he LOST by a historical number of votes. To be fair, the tick never won the popular vote.
rubbersole
(6,690 posts)Rarely the ruling class. Occasionally, if they're caught engaging in moral terpitude, extreme violence (w/weapons), quantities of white powder or salacious newsworthy behavior they will face legal jeopardy.
cilla4progress
(24,733 posts)a really good point!
I sure hope Garland agrees!
William769
(55,147 posts)DownriverDem
(6,228 posts)the top 3 things righties want? I don't agree with them, but if I knew I could at least understand them better.
Lonestarblue
(9,990 posts)In many cases, theyre identical because some people just react by adopting what theyre told by someone who reinforces their existing biases and beliefs. We all seek out affirmation of what we believe.
But I want them to describe not only the exact change they want but also how they think the government should deal with major issues facing the country. Among those issues are these:
1. Over 99% of the worlds climate scientists have conducted studies measuring the impacts of climate warming, including the faster-than-expected melting of glaciers, the warming of ocean temperatures that make hurricanes more destructive, and the loss of marine life as water becomes too warm for their survival. The cost of rebuilding after major storms is now in the many billions. What would they do to address climate warming, how would they pay for it, and how would they prevent future damages?
2. Millions of Americans lack access to affordable healthcare or any healthcare at all. Texas leads the country with the largest number of citizens with no health insurance because Republicans refuse to expand Medicaid. In addition, The share of the nonelderly population with employer-sponsored health insurance fell by more than 8 percentage points between 1998 and 2018, from 67% to 58%. https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/brief/long-term-trends-in-employer-based-coverage/
So around 43% of workers are unable to get healthcare through their employers. Some get coverage through Medicaid, others through Obamacare. Millions go without, leaving them vulnerable to preventable diseases. How would they resolve this problem, and who is to pay for it when poor people cannot afford it because they earn too little?
3. The US immigration laws do not work. Legal immigration to the US has something like a 10-year backlog. While many people want no immigrants to be allowed, employers need immigrants to keep the economy moving. How would they change immigration laws when a significant majority of the population favors immigration but a significant minority does not?
Those are only three of the many issues facing the US, and I truly would like to see a discussion of of these issues among conservatives who oppose all three with moderators who can bring out facts and push for responses based on real conditions instead of the imaginary ones we think they believe in but dont truly know exactly what they want. Too often, the media just reports the political views of the right wing without demanding how they would make change in a country as diverse as ours.
My mental image of the right wing has long been of a group watching their house burn but refusing to call the Fire Department because theyre been told it isnt real. I know thats more the MAGA cult, but theres a big middle of non-MAGA Independents who lean Republican who are most likely not as reactive as the MAGAs. Perhaps it would help to hear from them.
G2theD
(593 posts)They want TFG back, thats the extent of their thinking. They trust that the Mango Messiah will protect them and whatever else he does is golden because he is the daddy they never had and he is always right. Thats the way a cult works. Seems crazy, but its true.
Celerity
(43,381 posts)1. Complete (as much as is possible given the technological constraints of the given time horizon) socioeconomic, sociocultural, and sociopolitical control for a very small group of white male (with white females still subservient) systemic controllers over the US, and to eventually extend that control as far globally as is possible.
2. Deportation, and/or chattel enslavement, and/or death for most all PoC and LGBTQ (with token exceptions to maintain illusions/delusions).
3. The continued warping and remaking of their totalitarian fascist brand of RW Christianity, with the ultimate goal over the decades/centuries to place the systemic controllers themselves within its pantheon of gods, all combined with the systemic controllers' real life attempts at one of the ultimate qualities of a 'god', that being immortality (they bank on life extension technology aiding them until they possibly find the holy grail, the eradication of the human ageing process along with perma renewal to a gentic enhanced eternal prime state of fitness plus enhanced abilities).
Snackshack
(2,541 posts)Needs to get over the fact that a criminally negligent, narcissist fucking conman became president by very dubious means and apply the law to a criminally negligent, narcissist fucking conman. Its that simple.
ShazzieB
(16,399 posts)In the short run, it'll be messy as hell, his followers will make sure of it. But I don't see how our democracy can ever fully heal until the malignant tumor known as Donald J. Trump has been fully excised.
The cancer has already begun to metastasize, but I think the patient can still be saved as long as aggressive treatment is administered without too much more delay.
Pepsidog
(6,254 posts)that delivers the Presidency to a Republican in spite of losing by 10 million or more votes? A repeat of the 2020 election is almost assured as is Rs attempt to literally steal the election. The difference this time will be Red States will know the plan and SCOTUS is softening the battlefield to deliver the election to the Republican candidate. Is this scenario even voidable at this point?
ShazzieB
(16,399 posts)Either we fight like hell or we surrender to the Trumpistas and the rest of the GOP and let them have their way with this country. Surrender is NOT an option, afaic.
We still have a chance right now. I refuse to entertain the notion that we don't, because DOING SO WOULD SERVE NO PURPOSE. The kind of defeatism you're peddling also SERVES NO PURPOSE.
Go ahead and give up if that's what you want to do. No one's stopping you. You have that right. Deliberately trying to demoralize others? Hell, no. Go peddle that stuff somewhere else.
Pepsidog
(6,254 posts)TFG tried to steal the election but the vast majority of Americans do not understand the mechanics of the steal. So yes we have 2 years to prepare for the fight ahead. My post was not meant to concede 2024 but to accept the fact that Republicans will try to steal 2024 no matter how lopsided the popular vote.
AdamGG
(1,291 posts)we may have had the benefit of having a more established precedent for this. And, Nixon's crimes were like shoplifting a candy bar compared to Trump's.
Response to AdamGG (Reply #12)
Upthevibe This message was self-deleted by its author.
Upthevibe
(8,051 posts)....Very good point......
I FIRMLY believe (without any proof - it's just my opinion) that Ford agreed to pardon Nixon before he became President....
Ohioboy
(3,243 posts)We made it through the civil war when the nation was tested by division, and we'll make it through our current situation IF we stick to our principles.
Sticking to our principles means not letting guilty ex-presidents get away with trying to "steal" an election, which TFG was trying to do.
Upthevibe
(8,051 posts)Good point.
I hope we make it........
G2theD
(593 posts)But my pain will be assuaged when they start shooting the traitors.
Pepsidog
(6,254 posts)easy. I think Dems have the courage and so far DOJ has convicted or turned a good number of people. God forbid the House goes Red, we will formally become a banana republic.
G2theD
(593 posts)and was his professor at Harvard Law is sure he will indict. He said Garland strongly believes than no one is above the law and when he thinks he has an ironclad case, and after the midterms, he will indict him for both the documents and the obstruction thereof, and the J6 plot to reverse the will of the people in the 2020 election. I hope hes right!!
G2theD
(593 posts)And if they only win the house and not the senate they wont be able to convict Biden on impeachment and Biden can stop any bill because they wont have a big enough majority to override a veto. It will be a stalemate.
Pepsidog
(6,254 posts)they can imagine. Just imagine Jordan or MTG or other Qpublicans having congressional hearings on any one of their demented beliefs from election fraud to pizzagate.
G2theD
(593 posts)If they actually uncover a crime, fine, but their charges seem pretty dubious for the most part.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)is exactly what MAGAs and other among the anger-driven anti-Democratic hoards do. Great company for those who decide to lie with it. Includes those who rush to assume corruption in all of "them," and of course the eternal, absolutely un-believable levels of stupidity and ignorance.
There are other reasons in individual situations where the seeming "weaker" action may be both wiser and stronger.
The MAGAs were enraged when Bush 1 and the rest of the coalition agreed to a negotiated surrender with Iraq without invasion and takeover (which Bush II used as a major excuse for the invasion of Iraq in the Second Gulf War). They saw it, as MAGA and other hard-right types always do, as weakness and cowardice, and insisted that without mass invasion, smashing of all resistance, and requiring unconditional surrender Iraq would just do it again. This was to be followed, of course, by the victor's appropriate vengeance, even though sacking defeated nations is considered a war crime; as Strongman Trump' insisted virtuously, "We should have taken the oil." Impoverished Iraq's only big resource.
The MAGA notion of "courage," and no wonder they admire Putin and tRump and despise the kind of people we elect.
patphil
(6,176 posts)It will be a celebration for many of us here, but the aftermath will be very ugly. TFG has millions of rabid supporters. They'll create the national pain with their rage.
I know it has to be done, but I'm not looking forward to the ugly that will follow.
Boomerproud
(7,952 posts)I know it's true but I will never understand or accept that fact.
BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)Has he been indicted?
FoxNewsSucks
(10,431 posts)ProfessorGAC
(65,042 posts)However, is the US really that "young"?
How many other countries in the industrial era are still using the same basic governmental & economic constructs for 225 years?
Even England was actually ruled by the king, with consent of parliament, 225 years ago. It's not that way now. The monarch is a figurehead.
Same with some other European royalty nations.
Germany, Italy & Japan are only around 75 years old. China isn't even the same China Mao left behind.
I agree that prosecution of crimes needs to be done no matter the level of the miscreant.
I just don't think it's a "young country" issue.
Irish_Dem
(47,081 posts)Being the most powerful person in the world with unlimited power and wealth is way too tempting for criminals.
How the US handles this crisis will be a defining moment in our history.
wiggs
(7,813 posts)edhopper
(33,580 posts)We have one of the oldest governments on earth. Our government wasc100 years old when much of Europe was giving up their monarchies.
We can't blame the possible collapse of our democracy on growing pains.
Hermit-The-Prog
(33,346 posts)dwayneb
(768 posts)Of course that would be justice. But our system of justice is weakening by the day here in the USA. If the Fascists win control of Congress in the fall, they will set the stage for seizing power in 2024, one way or the other.
And when that happens, America as we once knew it will be finished. 2022 may very well be the last free and fair election we see in our lifetimes.