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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsTo CBS News: we are sick of hearing what people in diners think
They are visiting diners in Arizona and interviewing citizens. Only its really more like ventriloquist dummies usually. Crime inflation secure the borders. CBS, put your reporters on the real stories, please. The crime in the Republican Party Is a good place to start
gab13by13
(21,408 posts)and he said that Republicans have picked 3 issues to run on and they hammer just those 3 issues. Guess what Thom said they are?
Crime, immigrants at the border, and inflation.
Thom did say that Democrats should have done the same thing, pick 3 issues and hammer them.
Walleye
(31,062 posts)This kind of bumper strip issues campaign only works on Republicans. Democrats want detailed plans and listen to them. This is the problem. You cant expect Democrats to vote based on propaganda the way republicans do.
Sympthsical
(9,121 posts)The thing is, if you're a politics or news junky, you're going to hang around in a space with other politics and news junkies. We here pay a lot more attention to policy, but that doesn't mean Democrats in general do. It just means your immediate environment and anecdotal experience reflects differently.
Most of my friends and family are Democrats. They usually have one or two big reasons for being so. With many of my gay friends, they defaulted into Democrats = LGBT friendly. With my parents, it was union stuff (my father was a big Teamster). Sometimes it's cultural (people of color being far more likely to be Democrats).
The idea that we're all policy wonks and deep intellectuals is an insular lie we tell ourselves. Who doesn't want to think they're an intellectual sophisticate removed from those lower orders of thinking? Verily, allow me to retrieve my pipe and tweed and we shall hold forth!
People react emotionally to things. Most voters - on both sides - don't go much farther past "Does this immediately affect my life?" and basic emotional impulses. "This thing good! This thing bad!"
Acting like anyone anywhere really wants a deep dive into policy details is the quickest way to lose an election.
And that extends into those politics and news junky spaces. Pick an article at random. Go into the comments. Now estimate how many people actually read, digested, and analyzed the article and how many just reacted emotionally to the headline.
Because that is an everday thing I observe. People don't make it past the headline.
Hardly the nuanced deep discussion being portrayed.
moose65
(3,168 posts)Most people in this country are not political junkies like we are here on DU. Yes, WE like to have detailed plans, but for most regular people, that stuff starts to sound like Charlie Brown's school teacher.
Dems could have great messaging if they would keep it simple and STICK to it. A simple slogan like: Vote BLUE in 22. Something that will stick in the minds of voters, and hammer it home, over and over again.
Sometimes I think that Democratic politicians give people too much credit. They think that people remember everything that has happened over the last 2 years in detail. Nope. Republicans thought for awhile that the withdrawal from Afghanistan would be a great campaign issue for them, but that has completely fallen off the radar. People are fickle and they live in the moment. You have to remind them over and over and over again what you stand for.
The problem is that Dem politicians keep hiring the same campaign consultants over and over again. The same consultants who have gotten paid well while we lost the House and Senate during Obama's presidency, and who knows how many state and local offices we lost. It gets infuriating!
Sympthsical
(9,121 posts)I think our political consultant class is just out of control and out of touch. They're insular and live in that NY-DC-LA bubble where they're constantly surrounded by people who all think as they do and have similar preferences and proclivities.
There are so many times where I see someone advance a terrible idea that is insanely out of touch and I constantly think, "Have you ever . . . met people?" One of the more recent issues that springs to mind is LatinX. Latinos haaaaaaaaaaate that term. Hate hate hate. Hate! I know this because I live, work, and go to school around a lot of Latinos. Latinos have married into my family over the years. I've, you know, actually talked to these people.
And yet someone somewhere decided half the Democratic party needed to top-down impose that term onto that community in all their political materials. The community didn't ask for it. They sure as shit didn't want it. But a lot of disconnected (and white, let's be honest) political types decided this is what we were going to do now. And people who don't know any better and aren't familiar with the Latino community latched on and perpetuated it, because the political class instructed them to.
Man, that was a lot of unnecessary resentment generated because the people guiding our political sensibilities apparently didn't actually know any Latinos.
It was truly baffling. And I see that kind of top-down out of touch impulse again and again in different areas, because the political consultant class doesn't have experience anywhere close to the ground where voters actually live. There's an issue right now that I won't even discuss here where I'm watching it and thinking, "You guys seriously have no idea what the average person thinks about this. No idea at all. And it's going to kill us." It's already killing us in some closer elections. But what does it say that I'm not even going to mention or get into it in a partisan space, because I don't feel like dealing with the blowback this morning.
I've been an adult for twenty odd years now, and it feels like I'm seeing the same people again and again, making their livings by giving everyone advice. Well. After twenty years, I'm looking around at the state of the country and beginning to wonder, "Why are we still hiring you?"
NBachers
(17,146 posts)There's got to be Someone with a deep and demanding *something* against Howard, and they're so strategically placed in the consultant hierarchy that no-one will buck them.
Sympthsical
(9,121 posts)This would be a much better country today.
He "got it" in a way I have not seen replaced since.
HUAJIAO
(2,401 posts)that does McDonalds' advertising !!
JEESH !!!!!!!!!
We keep thinking that one day everyone will be like DUers - following all the details, doing the research, able to cut through the b.s. to the truth, etc. Most Americans are not that interested in the nitty gritty of an issue. Most Americans are too busy to spend time on following it. Even Democratic voters that I know vote with the thought of "what are they proposing that affect me". This self-centeredness is rampant in our country, and if one thinks it's not, then they haven't been paying attention.
Wishing and hoping that our fellow Americans would be more savvy when they vote isn't going to make it so.
Sympthsical
(9,121 posts)When your entire life is consumed with feeding your family or keeping a roof over your head, you start entering that, "Let's just make it to next week," thinking. I just need to get the water bill paid this week. I'll worry about the electric bill next week.
And I think that's why a lot of bigger overarching issues are harder to viscerally connect with voters. Like climate change. We know it's going to be a problem. We see evidence it's a problem. But people start thinking, "I have to buy gas to get to work so I don't lose my job and my apartment, and gas is $6 a gallon, and what the hell am I going to do . . ."
Climate becomes a "We'll get to that next week."
A lot of people are living to make it to next week or next month or next year. Whatever politician can tap into that sentiment and convince a voter that they'll make your next week or month better is likelier to win. Maybe that same politician will be absolutely terrible for you five or ten years down the line. But that isn't where your head is at all.
llmart
(15,555 posts)I still think it's more of "climate change? That's not important to me because I'll be dead before that, so who cares?" Or Putin's war on Ukraine - "it's not here and I don't know any Ukrainians, so why should I care?"
Sympthsical
(9,121 posts)And I'll say something that I think 95% of the people here would disagree with.
I think holding a January 6th hearing in the middle of October was one of the most baffling political decisions I have ever seen.
In a cycle completely dominated by inflation and to a somewhat lesser extent reproductive rights, someone thought that moving focus to a process most people could not possibly care less about was a good idea. And that isn't just me surmising based on my own experiences. If you look at recent polls about topics Americans care about, Jan. 6th lands at the absolute bottom. It's catnip for partisans and media, but it is not a thing in the lives of the average voter enduring this economy.
But when you ask voters what they think Democratic leaders are focused on, Jan 6th is at or near the top. Imagine that. Voters rate it at the bottom in importance, but they think our party has it has one of their three main priorities. It screams disconnect with voters.
Don't get me wrong. I believe there needs to be accountability for January 6th. Full stop. But I, someone who is engaged politically, am tired of hearing about it. I roll my eyes when I hear Garland's name. The next article I read with Garland's name in the headline will be accompanied by the word "indictment" - otherwise, I'm not bothering.
Politicians need to go where voters live. And they just don't live on Twitter.
llmart
(15,555 posts)Right or wrong, Democrats and President Biden will be seen as responsible for the price increases. We are at full employment. There are plenty of jobs, but it's the cost of things that the media is hammering on. Even as far back as the beginning of the pandemic, I remember telling people that as soon as the pandemic is over, corporations are NOT going to sit back and take the losses on the chin. I knew that as soon as things got back to normal, they would jack up the prices of everything to make up for the losses. So much for the "we're all in this together" crapola that we were being fed. "Oh, look how sweet. People are out on their balconies banging on pots and pans to show that we're still connected to one another even through these trying times of being apart."
Back when President Clinton was running for office the first time, he won because the Democrats pounded the "it's the economy, stupid" meme. It made Bush Sr. a one-term president. I remember quite a few of my Republican friends/family/coworkers say they voted for Clinton because of that. I never felt like it was Bush who single-handedly wrecked the economy - it never is, but that doesn't matter to the average American voter.
Like it or not, we live in a country that cares more about materialistic things than they do the really important issues.
Celerity
(43,545 posts)Quixote1818
(28,979 posts)The Magistrate
(95,255 posts)uponit7771
(90,364 posts)Beartracks
(12,821 posts)... and independents.
Yea, verily!
===========
Cosmocat
(14,574 posts)nm
yardwork
(61,712 posts)We need to reach the people in the middle who can't make up their minds. All our elections are determined by those people. They don't read much, don't pay a lot of attention to politics, and so they're susceptible to simple sound bites.
Democrats must change our messaging. We must get simpler and stronger.
Moostache
(9,897 posts)They stoke fear constantly because it is the quintessential Pavlovian response for their "base" - BE AFRAID! BE VERY AFRAID!
Then they follow up by painting Democratic leaders as weak on something, anything and insinuate that this makes them have only a single choice - vote GOP.
Afraid of economy?
We'll cut taxes and regulations (not YOUR taxes or regulations that benefit YOU, but don't worry about details...)
Afraid of healthcare costs?
We'll keep promising a replacement plan and never deliver anything (*going on 14 years soon...)
Afraid of immigrants and jobs?
We'll blather on about caravans and borders and crime, but do nothing concrete, ever.
Afraid of how to discuss sexuality with your kids?
We'll start accusing teachers of "grooming" and get you worked up about sexual reassignment treatments for OTHER PEOPLE'S kids...
Afraid of how to handle changing demographics and racial make up of communities?
We'll sell you false narratives on CRT and 1619 project and anything that dares to look at the past without sugar coating the ugly parts for your fee-fee's to not get bruised.
At the core, there is no real message or policy for the GOP any longer. It is all about leaning into and creating fear and getting stupid people to vote away their long term rights, freedoms and republic in favor of bullshit pseudo-promises and fake tough guy talk. Their standard bearer is the perfect avatar for their lies and deceit and there is no escaping that fact.
If we cannot sell the opposite of fear - hope - then we have to find more effective counters to the fear mongering and lying. We cannot stay above the fray and win in a mud slinging fight, and as easy as it is to attack MTG or Colorado's' Stripper escort Barbie or the various Ken doll's like Johnson, Rubio, Cruz, Gym Jordan and crew, the only successful way to defeat them is to look at how Trump did it to them and repeat the process.
Trump simply out-juvenile'd the field in 2016 and kept doing the same shit ever since...he is a lifetime bullshitter and bully and he showed that its effective in the minds of enough people in this country to seize power. Since we seem to struggle to sell Hope as the counter to Fear, maybe we should be considering loosing the dogs and telling the equivalent of poop jokes to blunt the GOP's message. It can't be any worse than the current situation where we are getting murdered at the state and local levels and looks grim in the House in 3 weeks... At worst, its worth a try.
BlueIdaho
(13,582 posts)Fear, Fear, Fear, and more Fear. Forget the fact that most the straw men the GQP dredges up have zero daily relevance to the Diner Crowd - whoever the hell they are
doc03
(35,382 posts)niece's husband this morning, he said they had to pay $800 for 150 gallons of fuel oil. He said
that they filled their tank 275 gallons for $800 last year. Democrats passed the Inflation Reduction
Act but even myself that follows that stuff have little idea what is in it. I see these ads that it will cut
a household energy cost buy something like $1500 sometime in the future. It is not buying any heat NOW
for people. Democrats have been saying every election that I can remember (I am 74) that Republicans are going
eliminate SS and Medicare and this is the most important election ever. I think we have been crying wolf
and he has finally come but people don't buy it anymore.
Walleye
(31,062 posts)And what do you know the fucking wolf showed up. I dont think losing Social Security and Medicare is any more remote or a possibility then losing reproduction rights
doc03
(35,382 posts)should be a massive Blue Wave this year. There are women out there that have been anti-abortion
and fought against it for decades too. Hopefully the pro-choice people out number them enough to
swing the vote. We will just have to hope all the talking heads are wrong.
gab13by13
(21,408 posts)Democrats picking 3 topics to emphasize is not using propaganda, it is a strategy.
Walleye
(31,062 posts)Ferrets are Cool
(21,110 posts)Thom is correct, as usual.
And aren't Democrats already decided? If we need to campaign to Democrats, we are in a bad way. Americans have a extremely short attention span. Once you hit the 3 big issues, they usually hear lalalalalalalalalalaalalalalalalala.
And, if WE were so great at messaging, WE would be in complete control of all branches of the government. Admit it, for the most part, we haven't been. And that, IMO, is why we are worried that we may lose our Democracy.
jaxexpat
(6,852 posts)Biden is president is that there were people who, after seeing a Midas Touch or some other similar commercial in 2020, decided to get off their couch and vote Democratic.
Unfortunately, since those folks had no political curiosity or foundation, they voted Republican down ticket. Probably because of some sort of stupid pseudo-wisdom about not placing all ones eggs in a single basket.
We ONLY win by attracting the apolitical and you're never going to convince them of anything in the long term.
Walleye
(31,062 posts)jaxexpat
(6,852 posts)There are way more of them than there should be. Question? Examine the popularity of professional football and reality Tee-Vee.
Walleye
(31,062 posts)gab13by13
(21,408 posts)that is inconsequential. I think apolitical people probably don't vote.
soldierant
(6,927 posts)goes back to ancient Greecec- and they invented democracy. It was also used successfully by JFK, among others. It's not a bad idea, and it doesn't eliminate discussing detailed plans. But it does get across very quickly and memorably what your detailed plans are about.
You don't need to listen to him, though you can, it's on YouTube. But you can read the article at The Hartmann Report, or at Common Dreeams. His keyword is hendiatris.
pstokely
(10,530 posts)but others?
carpetbagger
(4,392 posts)Scrivener7
(51,021 posts)3) Tax fairness - the rich and corporations currently pay proportionally less than the poor and middle class
Emile
(22,945 posts)Orrex
(63,225 posts)For all of their countless faults, Republicans are masters of messaging, and the media loves to repeat their soundbyte statements ad infinitum. Almost any Republican policy initiative or agenda can be summarized in a way that lends itself to easy airtime.
Democrats, in tragic contrast, give five-paragraph answers with footnotes and subtitles and cross-references and vague but important allusions to previous five-paragraph answers. As a result, the media often plays either a useless two second clip of a Dem, or the news outlet gives a poor summary of the position, or they skip it altogether and go to a Republican for comment instead.
And as a further result, Democrats seem out of touch or stuffy or too wonky for "average folks" to connect with, even if the actual agenda being put forth would be hugely beneficial to those folks.
This has been the case for as long as I've been politically conscious, and probably for longer than that.
twodogsbarking
(9,822 posts)yardwork
(61,712 posts)I don't know a single person who hangs out in a diner.
pstokely
(10,530 posts)why don't they visit those places?
doc03
(35,382 posts)find people "solving the world problems" over coffee. They may be elderly retired people but they
always show up and vote.
Let the circular firing squad begin. Stop complaining we are going to win this election.
gab13by13
(21,408 posts)but having vigorous debates is what separates us from the Borg, er Magats. As long as we all kiss and make up in the end.
vercetti2021
(10,156 posts)They are the true blooded Americans that sit their asses in a diner all day and gossip about what Bubba has been doing on the road.
Who the fuck goes to a diner? you go to a diner to eat a piece of pie and then get the fuck out of hillbilly land
doc03
(35,382 posts)is part of our problem. You talk down to people call them rubes and hillbillies don't expect to get their vote.
I can't say why I think we lost Hillary's so called Blue Wall. (I would be silenced)
vercetti2021
(10,156 posts)You're never going to get those freaks to change their minds. EVER. They think we are all baby eating soul sucking demonic creatures.
Walleye
(31,062 posts)Believe that the Democratic Party is the great Satan. I dont think theres ever gonna be anyway we can move them off of that. They believe that God will punish them if they vote for Democrats. Thats why discussion of policy and candidates is often a waste of breath. I mean if they can elect Herschel Walker I dont know what to say
gab13by13
(21,408 posts)I should have put religion in quotations.
We have a man running for governor in Pa. who wants to lead God's army against the evil Democratic demons. He also subscribes to QANON. I live among them in central Pa. and they are zombies. I had an ablation that fixed my A-fib 3 years ago and I'm not getting into a screaming match with zombies. I will do zingers at then though. I did a good one at the golf course. The Magats were bashing gay and trans people, I interrupted and suggested that we invite celebrities to our next tournament, I suggested Caitlyn Jenner. You could have heard a pin drop.
luvtheGWN
(1,336 posts)The fact that pastors can spout religious "political directives" from their pulpits and not be taxed is horrendous. the fact that pastors can spout religious political directives on the airwaves/cable etc, is also horrendous.
And the fact that 60% (or thereabouts) still believe in a mythical,manmade "god" means that rational Americans will always be the servants of these people -- and therefore must deal with the consequences.
It is to weep......
doc03
(35,382 posts)just that a majority does. There are still several million that vote Democrat, Independent or don't vote at all.
Take West Virginia it was solid Blue for decades now it is the deepest Red there are many reasons for that not just race.
Elessar Zappa
(14,077 posts)Fuck them all.
doc03
(35,382 posts)Boomerproud
(7,968 posts)Guess what Jim Jordan is doing in his ad, yep, talking to a very distressed white couple in a diner. They sit there and nod in agreement with everything he says of course. Revolting.
Ferrets are Cool
(21,110 posts)rlaska
(3 posts)Amen.
They're talking to a couple in a booth in a Flagstaff diner who probably think Elvis is still alive.
AllaN01Bear
(18,443 posts)liberal press. hah.
Walleye
(31,062 posts)tenderfoot
(8,438 posts)eom
Joinfortmill
(14,467 posts)happy feet
(871 posts)The MSM picks up Republican talking points and uses a megaphone to convince us the Rewpub issues are the issues and now abortion is only an issue for 5%. I'm hoping we win and the press has egg on their faces.
Walleye
(31,062 posts)gab13by13
(21,408 posts)Democrats have always been behind the 8 ball with MSM owned and managed by right wing domestic oligarchs. COMCAST's top shareholders are BlackRock and Vanguard. I hear all of the time that MSNBC is liberal, it isn't, it just puts a liberal slant on the narrative that the right wants us to talk about.
I hear it's about money, and yet, MSNBC fired a very popular Keith Olbermann, Ed Schultz, and Dylan Ratigan because they all strayed from the narrative.
I only watch Nicolle Wallace, Chris Hayes, and Mehdi Hasan.
I believe no polls. Back in one of Obama's elections, Gallup was a top dog poll, it was way off because it put in bad data. I think 538 has also fallen by the wayside. I go by the number of Fetterman/Shapiro signs I see where I never saw them before.
Walleye
(31,062 posts)I havent missed them at all, but somehow theyre set narrative creeps into everything
ripcord
(5,537 posts)When people are having to work more hours simply to exist and aren't sure if they are going to be able to pay their bills that is going to be their first concern because they have to deal with it constantly every day. Anyone who is complaining about people considering this the most important issue to them needs to STFU.
hay rick
(7,643 posts)Want to keep the narrative on Republican talking points? Results guaranteed.
Kaleva
(36,354 posts)Aristus
(66,467 posts)assholes. How to make the country a better place? I'll ask someone else, thanks. And it will involve getting rid of the lame-brained, loitering assholes.
Buns_of_Fire
(17,197 posts)Now it looks like they'll spend 4 years telling us what the LOSERS think.
See? Fair and Balanced coverage!
Hermit-The-Prog
(33,447 posts)Polybius
(15,492 posts)My local dinner constantly has Fox and MSNBC on all of their TV's. Well, at least there's something for everyone I guess.
Sky Jewels
(7,147 posts)onecaliberal
(32,902 posts)lees1975
(3,879 posts)that a friend recorded and sent to me. Reporter comes through the door, there are about 10 customers and a few employees in there, he asks a guy at the first booth he comes to if he'd answer a few questions. The guy says yes, and they get to the bottom line, he's voting for Tim Ryan. There's applause all through the diner. Reporter asks, "Is there any one in here supporting J.D. Vance?" Silence. None, no one, nada.
And the reporter exits.
Walleye
(31,062 posts)Cozmo
(1,402 posts)JHB
(37,162 posts)Y'know, the liberals out in Trumpland. You'll get a better "read" on the sTrumpets by asking the people who hear what they say on a regular basis, not what they say when their rattling off their "correct" responses to "lamestream" reporters.
Most of the liberals in that situation aren't loud about their views, so the Trumpies freely sound off because they assume agreement. They give their neighbors the straight dope, not people from CBS, the NYT, CNN, etc.
Oh, and ask the liberals why they aren't loud about their views. In a lot of cases there's real fear at work.
Walleye
(31,062 posts)pstokely
(10,530 posts)they love to play victimhood
JHB
(37,162 posts)LiberalFighter
(51,104 posts)Orrex
(63,225 posts)And then they used that deliberately Trump-skewed sample to declare that Trump was a strong contender in Pennsylvania.
It's false to say that the media loves a horse-race; they love to push the Republican into the lead and then report on how the Democrat is struggling to catch up.
LudwigPastorius
(9,178 posts)Walleye
(31,062 posts)betsuni
(25,645 posts)The_Casual_Observer
(27,742 posts)None of the idiots are asked why they think that Republicans
Would fix anything.
vapor2
(1,249 posts)But add an S to crime.
Warpy
(111,359 posts)You know, morons. It's why they avoid the big cities, they're searching for a cracker barrel America that went out with the Dust Bowl, buying into the myth that diner patrons in small towns are somehow more genuine than the rest of us.
I hate it too. They'll spend loads of time in diners, but they won't inform anyone about the differences between candidates. It's another reason I turned the bastards off.
Let me know if they ever get a new shtik, the small town freak show was hoary with age 40 years ago.
SunSeeker
(51,726 posts)The media suggests that the GOP has an inflation plan and that's why people "prefer Republicans on the economy." Why don't they ever ask these people, ON AIR, what they think Republicans will do to bring down the world price of oil? Why don't they ask them, are you doing better financially TODAY than you were in JANUARY 2020?