You know why there are incels?

[cilla4progress]

Women don't like those men. Toxic masculinity. We want allies, feminists. Men who don't worry about appearing meek to themselves and others.

It's sexy, too.

[AggressiveCanary]

1. Why the hate?

Hatred breeds hate.

[Phoenix61]

2. Didn't see hate mentioned. nt

[Bluethroughu]

6. Incels hate

I think they mean, incels learned hate from their parents.

[Dorian Gray]

7. What hate?

[ornotna]

8. Not seeing the hate

Not sure where you're seeing that in this OP.

[tenderfoot]

10. Tell us about Passive Aggression

like you're doing here.

[Hekate]

25. I don't know why incels hate women so much that they kill them. Can you tell us?

And I do literally mean kill.

Twice at the university I used to live near there were rampages of death. One warm night when my house windows were open I heard sirens away down the freeway — not unusual in and of itself, but these went on and on and on and on, and I finally thought, “There must be one hell of a pileup on the 101.”

Next day I found out some little sicko who couldn’t get a date decided it was the fault of a lot of strangers, and whacked his roomie (male) and someone else, I think a random girl he thought was a cheerleader. Then he got in his car and headed for the Saturday night crowded street where the students hung out — and gunned his engine.

Damn it all to hell, AggressiveCanary. The hatred comes from the incels, not at the incels.

Oh, and one final sick blow: I read years later that the perp is glorified in incel chatrooms as “the Gentleman *his name* ”

I am a woman, a grandma by now. I was raised by intelligent but socially awkward parents. We learned good manners, and a serious sense of ethics, and the Golden Rule, and how to work hard and hope our hard work would be noticed. But ease of teenage and young-adult interactions came slow to my sister and myself — we had to learn.

But in all of the angst of our early lives — it never once occurred to either of us that the solution was to go kill people.

[progree]

26. Hi, I'm progree, an involuntary celibate, and I don't have any desire to kill women. I have some

women (and men) friends. Some women are involuntary celibates too, by the way. Lots of causes, not all involuntary celibates are bad people, actually most aren't IMHO. Please see number 22 below for examples.

[JI7]

28. Incels are not the same as involuntary celibates. Incels are those who think they are OWED something

from women and think they have a right to hurt and kill women and girls if they are denied it.

[progree]

31. incel is an abbreviation for involuntary celibate

If one starts a thread about incels, one should make their meaning clear, to make clear that not all men (or women) who are not getting sex (and wish they were) are despicable people.

For one it helps to capitalize Incel (as you did but some don't) -- I do associate capital-I Incels with what you describe -- hateful people who do feel entitled, and I usually leave threads like that alone.

Sometimes. From many of the posts in threads like these, it sure looks like people are very harshly condemning men who don't get sex (and wish they were). I do take those on sometimes. If they are condemning the sense of entitlement that some have, than that is fine with me.

[betsuni]

37. No.

[Hortensis]

38. I completely agree, Progree, and thanks for speaking up.

Changes in society have resulted in large numbers of decent men who aren't having the lives they were raised to believe they would, and need to have. That's a significant problem for many at best and tragedy at worst for others.

Continually ignoring their very existence and then piling on by not bothering to differentiate them from a far smaller number of people seen as repellent and vicious deviants is just plain wrong.

We can BOTH celebrate the great advances in women's equality and ability to live their lives as they choose AND care about how that is negatively impacting the lives of many men and society as well. It's not an either-or.

[Scrivener7]

40. Incel is an extremist term since it was co-opted by members of the men's rights movement. Deny all

you like that "incel" describes men who hate women and blame them for their own lack of partner, but I hope you don't use the phrase in real life to describe yourself.

Most men and women I know who would like a partner but don't have one would not associate with what the incel movement has become (which includes extremist and violent rhetoric against women and at least two mass killings of women.)

[cilla4progress]

47. "Incel" is a specific term,

with a specific meaning.

Doesn't refer to all celibates.


incel
/ˈinˌsel/
noun
a member of an online community of young men who consider themselves unable to attract women sexually, typically associated with views that are hostile toward women and men who are sexually active.
"self-identified incels have used the internet to find anonymous support"

[progree]

51. That's one definition. Downthread I've discussed the Merriam Webster definition that DOES

include all who consider themselves involuntary celibates, as I do.

incel is an abbreviation for involuntary celibate. I don't think any rational person thinks it's an abbreviation of something else, or not an abbreviation at all. So when someone uses the term, I wish they would make the meaning clear - that they are not talking about all involuntary celibates, but rather the subset that are resentful and feel entitled or worse -- act on that in some way or another.

And as I've said, there are anti-incel threads on DU, where people castigate men who have low social skills, few friends etc. Sounds like me, so I resent that too. We have mental health groups and a Loners Group on DU, and some there fit the low social skillls, few friends, involuntary celibate label. I don't think they are bad people or toxic anything.

Doesn't refer to all celibates.

Never said it did. It's an abbreviation of INVOLUNTARY celibates. As I am.

I am glad that you, as the OP writer, are making clear what meaning you intend. Thank you. (Wish it was in the OP, but oh well).

3 other people on this thread feel as I do. That's typical of my experience on other threads that I've piped up on about this. I don't think any of us would object or support me if the intended meaning was clear. Thank you.

[Scrivener7]

67. I think you understand the distinction others are making, and I understand that you are

not making that distinction.

Do you identify yourself as an incel to the people in your in-person life? Do they generally understand the nuance of your definition, basing your distinction on lower and upper case letters?

[progree]

69. The first part has been covered before quite well in #58.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100217276934#post58

"Do you identify yourself as an incel to the people in your in-person life? "

the answer is no, I don't think I ever have. I can't recall anyone in my personal life ranting and raving about incels, I can't think of any reason to bring it up.

[Scrivener7]

71. As I said, I think you understand how the OP is using the word incel, and I think you

have acknowledged that it is one widely understood use of the word. (I would say it is now the most widely understood definition. That seems to be the point of disagreement in this thread, though it is not, I think, a point of disagreement in the wider world.)

Assuming that the OP is using the same definition as the self-definitions used by for example, Elliot Rogers or Chris Harper-Mercer or Alec Minassian or Scott Beierle or Tres Genco and others to describe their motives for their mass murders, and also the definition used by multiple groups on 4chan and reddit and other places who advocate violence and murder against women, do you really think the OP is "ranting and raving?"

I ask because there is a movement of increasingly large numbers that represents a huge danger to women. They refer to themselves as incels. But you are basically saying we cannot refer to this group by their name because the previously used definition of that name was benign.

I just don't accept that.

[Scrivener7]

41. Lol.

[demmiblue]

55. Hit a nerve, I see.

[ismnotwasm]

76. Oh my.

[vercetti2021]

3. Sam's goes with us trans women

They hate us so much more because we also want give them anything. Reason they go for straight transphobia

[Mister Ed]

4. Must be awfully hard for a woman to cozy up to someone who's seething with hatred for her.

An incel's plight is entirely of his own making.

[Bluethroughu]

5. Good strong man confident in the strong woman by his side is sexy as hell, and

that's why I'm married almost 30 years.

[NewHendoLib]

12. 42 years for my wife and I!

[Bluethroughu]

13. I hope we get there, Congratulations!

[cilla4progress]

15. Us too

New Hendo!

[NewHendoLib]

16. Bravo!!!

[BigmanPigman]

9. A little while ago I saw a special report about

young adult men not attending college as they have in the past while young adult women are entering higher education at record levels. This discrepancy keeps the males separated from their peers, feeling like losers with no hope for a decent future like their baby boomer parents. This has become a serious crisis. They channel their hopeless situation into social media and they may get influenced by incels.

Sounds like a realistic assessment to me.

[MontanaMama]

11. We were talking about these degenerates the other day.

During that conversation, my husband stated that women are magic. He wasn’t joking…he said “what women manage, think of, care for, love, notice, laugh at, provide, create and fight for is nothing short of amazing.” How could any reasonable person not see this magic and not be attracted to it? There are those who want to control and kill it because they’re not deemed trustworthy enough to be welcomed into that circle and they’re furious. Those are incels. He said it like he’d thought about it awhile. It surprised me.

[cilla4progress]

17. Wow, MontanaMama -

that's insightful!!

Great guy your husband!

[MontanaMama]

70. I thought it was too.

Sometimes I think he’s not a deep thinker then he pops off with something like that!

[cilla4progress]

72. Relatable!

back

[raccoon]

35. Your husband is a keeper, that's for sure. NT

[Sympthsical]

14. Lack of socialization + internet toxicity

It's pretty simple. It's not that incel types never existed - socially maladjusted males with few friends, fewer mating prospects, and general resentment and seething anger towards the world. They've long existed and have generally been considered an outlier of typical male behavior.

However, the internet allowed them to find one another.

Whenever you have vaguely shitty or delusional people in an enclosed space, their shittiness and delusions tend to bounce off each other and concentrate. One toxic person is bad. Thirty of them in a room together is a shitstorm waiting to happen.

So where a lot of these people were isolated, socially and physically, because of their lack of social ability, they are now all together feeding off one another and intensifying the resentment and anger that gradually alchemizes into hatred.

You can see this sort of thing in any kind of online community. Stick a bunch of people in a space where all they do is reinforce each other's worst instincts and features all day. Things get batty real, real fast. Doesn't matter what it is. Religion, politics, hobbies (see: gate-keeping), etc.

I have friends who I enjoy a great deal individually, but I avoid activities where they are together. They just feed off each other's vibe and it intensifies into the intolerable. One's sugar, one's spice, and together they're somehow inedible.

So it is with incels. One angry, resentful young man can be creepy or worrisome or weird. A few hundred of them telling each other it's women's fault or society's or what have you, and you've got a brew going that eventually boils over from time to time.

[cilla4progress]

20. I guess I'm lucky

I don't know anyone like that.

[Sympthsical]

23. That you know of

That's kind of the trick of the thing. What people do on their computers at night can be a lot different of what we expect from the person we know and talk to all day.

Meanwhile, I've just written "child sex trafficking" into google about a billion times, and now I'm wondering how many FBI lists I'm on. (I'm doing homework about human trafficking).

If my partner ever looks at my search history, the man's going to have some questions.

[TygrBright]

18. Waste products of the patriarchy.

And when I say patriarchy, please understand that while patriarchy is a very nearly world-wide phenomenon, the specific patriarchy in question here is the one established to privilege white, Western, Christian males descended from or connected to historical patterns of property ownership, domination, and predatory capitalism.

They've set up a hierarchy and a set of cultural expectations that mythologizes a very toxic variety of masculinity and dehumanizes women and people of color.

They maintain control of the hierarchy and the only way to break into the top levels is to accumulate obscene wealth and demonstrate internalization of the toxic assumptions about masculinity and the dehumanization of women and people of color.

For men, particularly young, working-class white men, who are not and never will be allowed into that rarefied atmosphere, the frustration and self-loathing of their own "failure" becomes increasingly twisted and destructive. Raised under the assumption that they are 'naturally' superior and entitled to a position of domination and control, with their own beautiful porn star objectified females worshiping their masculinity and the inferior people of color bowing and standing aside and acknowledging the superiority of the mighty Lords of the Patriarchy, the disillusionment of being just another piece of waste in the machine is corrosive.

And who else can they possibly take it out on?

disgustedly,
Bright

[stuffmatters]

19. Yes!So Fed Soc can flood SCOTUS with them

Along with their dream Handmaiden

[forgotmylogin]

21. I saw a video where a woman declared this is natural selection.

Women can innately sense what these guys are all about, and instinctually do not want to continue their gene pool.

[progree]

22. Hi, I'm progree, and I am an incel,

like millions of adults of both genders who are, and only a very small fraction are misogynists or misandrists. Many for medical conditions (look at any prescription medicine for any serious condition and damn near all of them list urinary and sexual side effects),

yes, some have mental or cognitive issues that prevent them from making close encounters, or rarely, e.g. some autistics, not sure these are the people progressive people should be demonizing.

Some refuse for ethical reasons to do misogynist things like spewing a lot of smooth-talking bullshit or falsely pretend to be a long-term relationship prospect in order to get laid and keep getting laid. Just a Golden Rule thing I guess.

Some are just plain shy. About 1/4 of the men in my college boarding house were like that. Most all were nice. A lot nicer IMHO than those who were collecting notches on their belts.

And there is a hell of a lot more involuntary celibates during Covid times.

What I've seen on social media is castigating single men as over-sexed animals. But at the same time, they are supposed to be "getting laid", If they don't, they are lambasted as being "incels" - scary weirdos and pathetic losers.

In other words, damned if you do, and damned if you don't. This incel chastisement is an especially virulent form of sexism and singlism.

I mentioned singles and singlism. I bet a lot of married men and women are incels too.

Yes, yes, I know that some involuntary celibate men are misogynists and think that women owe them something. Yes, that is despicable. But I believe the vast majority of involuntary celibate men -- and I've been one probably the majority of my adult life -- don't feel entitled to anything from women (or other men) and live our lives fulfilling other interests and goals. If that makes us scary weirdos or pathetic losers, I am extremely very sorry for that.

Is it "progressive" to lambast people who are not getting sex?

[Disaffected]

24. Good points all.

Just goes to show the injustice and misunderstanding brought on by generalization, eg. "these degenerates", about an identifiable group.

[leftstreet]

27. A medical condition isn't the same as a sense of entitlement

You're putting a big umbrella over "involuntary"

[progree]

29. Involuntary celibacy has a lot of causes. Not just medical if you want to argue that one

Last edited Sun Oct 23, 2022, 05:03 AM - Edit history (1)

for some reason. To me, being involuntarily celibate because of a medical condition is being involunarily celibate.

I have many more examples in number 22 as you have seen but chosen to gloss over. None of these examples are about, or always (or usually) involve a "sense of entitlement".

It's the non-celibate putting notches in his belt that seems to have a sense of entitlement. But I don't generalize to castigate all non-celibates as belt-notchers as most aren't. I'd appreciate the same courtesy in return.

You're putting a big umbrella over "involuntary"

The problem with this thread is just the opposite -- a too narrow umbrella, lumping all involuntary celibates into Rodger Elliot "sense of entitlement" types. By far the vast majority are not. Simply put, "involuntary" doesn't mean "sense of entitlement".

[StormKing]

32. Incel-ism is political not a protected class

Incel-ism is a political movement. It's not an protected class of people. You can't just grab whole groups of people and throw them into the group because they're not sexually active. That's not how things works.

People that just cannot process a healthy relation aren't incels.

Men that haven't had sex in the five years that they left high school because they haven't figured out dating as an adult aren't incels.

None of these people are Incels until they accept misogyny and apply Incel ideology to that and their lives.

[progree]

33. Please see #31 above.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100217276934#post31

When someone harshly condemns men (or women) who aren't getting sex (and wish they were), I get angry.

When someone attacks the sense of entitlement that some of these people have, it's OK with me.

I never said involuntary celibates, incels (the abbreviation), or capital-I Incels (usually the despicable social/political movement), are protected classes.

[StormKing]

36. Sexless people are not automatically Incels

Sexless people are not Incel unless they choose to accept Incel ideology.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/incel

ASEXUAL people are not Incels. I know two. Both are women that hate and fear Incels really rightfully.

I'm non-Binary. I've fallen into being "sexless" several times in my life. Never was an Incel. You should stop this.

Equating sexless with being a political Incel who invites violence and hates women is not at all smart.

I'm not sure who to point you to get help for yourself but quoting yourself in conversation as if you're an authority in the subject is not going to help you.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/incel

[MrsCoffee]

39. Thank you. nt

[progree]

42. Again, incel is a common abbreviation for involuntary celibate. I don't care whether

that's in Merriam Webster or not. Especially when its lower case i.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/incel

"a person (usually a man) who regards himself or herself as being involuntarily celibate and typically expresses extreme resentment and hostility toward those who are sexually active"

Typically? Not always. What about atypical incels? Actually, most involuntary celibates don't express extreme resentment.

ASEXUAL people are not Incels.

Didn't say they were. I think everywhere I used the term, certainly every post, i indicated it was involuntary celibates.

You should stop this.

I'm just asking that people make clear, especially when using the lower case i, that they are talking about the subset, typical or not (its not typical) that feel entitled and angry.

There have been 3 other people on this thread, including me that agree with me. I've been on other threads, ditto. So no, I won't stop this.

Just specify what one is talking about. At the very least, capitalize Incel. I've also mentioned many times that some in these threads certainly seem to condemn people harshly for lacking the social skills, etc. That I object to. As for condemning the sense of entitlement, fine with me.

[StormKing]

43. Not caring about a dictionary is ignorance

Also, let's see some sources that aren't yourself.

Go ahead.

Post what you're reading about Incels.

That will tell us a Loooooooot about you and why you're doing this.

Here's more of mine. I don't have a problem showing what I read.

Let's see what you read.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/incel-threat-secret-service-report/

[progree]

44. You missed the part about "typical" in the definition.

Note that 3 people in this thread agree with me. I've been to other threads too where people take offense.

I'm just asking that people make clear, especially when using the lower case i, that they are talking about the subset, typical or not (its not typical) that feel entitled and angry.

Just specify what one is talking about. At the very least, capitalize Incel. I've also mentioned many times that some in these threads certainly seem to condemn people harshly for lacking the social skills, etc. That I object to. As for condemning the sense of entitlement, fine with me.

[StormKing]

45. SOURCES. Not a request.

This is not an election. "Three people think I'm right." Woop woop.

The broad public l, Secret Service, FBI as well as Liberal and Feminist activists share this common opinion: Incels are rapey, terrorist scum.

https://www.thelily.com/feminists-have-been-warning-the-world-about-incels-ignoring-online-misogyny-has-deadly-consequences/

That's three sources to your ZERO sources.

Sources that are not you.

[progree]

46. AGAIN on the typical clause

Last edited Sun Oct 23, 2022, 10:43 AM - Edit history (2)

"a person (usually a man) who regards himself or herself as being involuntarily celibate and typically expresses extreme resentment and hostility toward those who are sexually active"

Did you miss the "typically" in the Merriam Webster definition. That means some don't express extreme resentment. In my case I not only not express resentment, but don't feel resentment. Nor do I feel hostility towards those who are sexually active. But I still fit the definition.

So that's one source. Merriam Webster.

(I was sexually active for many years in the past, and have no doubt I could become so again if it was a big enough deal to me. Edited to add: I've also turned down sex requests and likely sexual overtures, so I, as a Golden Rule type of person, totally understand that others have the right to turn down same. It doesn't make me resentful or hostile, rather it's perfectly understandable to me and I'm glad that I and everyone else have that right)

This is not an election. "Three people think I'm right." Woop woop.

Didn't say it was an election. Four people total on one DU thread find the bashing of lower case "i" incels and people with low social skills troubling means something to me.

That has happened on other threads too. So there are other involuntary incelibates (and allies), in DU as elsewhere, that are bothered by the slamming of involuntary celibates, abbreviated incels whether you think so or not.

[StormKing]

77. INCELS SUPPORT DONALD TRUMP

The score is eight to ZERO. You are seemingly very scared to show what you're reading. Well if you read things like the below I can see why you didn't share it. You'd be alerted on.

You're literally on DU defending rapists and terrorists.

STOP.

"Leftist/Democrat and Incel-dom Does Not Mix: - Involuntary Celibacy
I don't really want to start a debate on this (even tho I will engage anyone who does). More importantly, I just wanted to express my surprise at discovering this in such a forum. I am NOT partisan by the way. But I do lean right. That said, Trump is a pompous jerk. But I support his economic"

https://incels.net/threads/leftist-democrat-and-incel-dom-does-not-mix.3113/

MORE

https://nypost.com/2018/04/27/the-online-incel-culture-is-real-and-dangerous/

https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/15/politics/tallahassee-hot-yoga-shooting-misogynistic-extremism-report/index.html

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/mar/16/involuntary-celibates-incels-threat-us-secret-service

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/09/22/incels-rape-murder-study/

[StormKing]

30. Ummm is that a question?

Um, is that a question?

Because the problem I have with the answer, is the answer is that women reject them. Incels are not incels because of anything women have done. Even rejection did not create incels. Often these men don't even have the courage to talk to women so rejection doesn't even Factor. The rejection that they may feel exists, exists only in their head.

Nothing women do including anything to do with feminism created these dudes. These dudes are the creation of something else, usually another dude's mental mess like Alex Jones or Roosh V.

[betsuni]

34. I think this a social media thing.

In the olden days some people were just bad at romance and they didn't blame anyone but themselves. Everyone these days wants to be a victim.

[Brainfodder]

48. I believe the term is male chauvinism you are looking for?

Maybe just me, I see them as poorly informed, who are expecting sub servient supermodels with super high libidos to just fall out of the sky and land at their doorstep and find them so arousing that they must have them day and night!?!

SEX: the most over hyped thing ever.

[Treefrog]

49. I would respectfully submit that most violence against women

is NOT committed by "incels".

One has only to look at the rates of domestic violence. Women suffer this violence at the hands of their husbands and boyfriends.

Nothing at all "sexy" about that.

[cilla4progress]

50. Please don't conflate my use of the term

sexy here with your assertion.

And progree, you are welcome to your own definitions, but, suffice to say, I am using the commonly understood, dictionary definition of incel.

I hope that helps.

[progree]

52. incel is commonly known as an abbreviation of involuntary celibate

No rational person thinks incel is an abbreviation of anything other than involuntary celibate, or not an abbreviation at all.

FFI: https://www.democraticunderground.com/100217276934#post51

[cilla4progress]

54. This is clearly a sore spot for you, progree.

I sincerely hope you have support where you are.

👋🏽❤️

[progree]

56. Thank you much. But I don't feel the need for "support" in the sense you probably mean

(but that's an assumption on my part that you mean something more than the normal support one gets in everyday life from friends, relations, and community).

All's I've ever asked anywhere in this thread is for people to make clear they aren't talking about all involuntary celibates. And three other people on the thread feel the same way, and I don't think any need "support". Likewise other such threads where I and others have piped up.

[cilla4progress]

57. I and others here have repeatedly said

we are referring to the commonly understood, common usage, dictionary definition.

There is nothing more I can say.

Good day.

[progree]

58. The OP doesn't make that clear at all. Three other people feel the same way.

It's not just a progree-needing-support thing. Likewise similar threads.

You know why there are incels?
Women don't like those men. Toxic masculinity. We want allies, feminists. Men who don't worry about appearing meek to themselves and others. It's sexy, too.

You can make that clear in the OP. That not all involuntary male celibates are like that, just a small percentage. That's all I've asked.

I don't agree that all others have made that clear either in this thread either. Some yes, some no, until I brought it up. All that have replied to me (including you) have made it clear in their replies to me that they are talking about the entitled resentful variety, and I do very much appreciate that.

Thanks, you too have a good day

Edit: added the "not" in "That not all involuntary male celibates are like that,"

[progree]

53. treefrog isn't conflating your use of the term. Looks like the same as your meaning

49. I would respectfully submit that most violence against women

is NOT committed by "incels".

One has only to look at the rates of domestic violence. Women suffer this violence at the hands of their husbands and boyfriends.

Nothing at all "sexy" about that.

That said, of course it's not right to do violence against women, whether from incels in the worst sense of the word (or any sense of the word), or husbands or boyfriends. So, apparently like you, I'm perplexed what the point of number 49 is.

[Treefrog]

60. I do not believe I conflated your use of the term.

You seem to be saying "incels" are not sexy to women.

Apparently women are finding plenty of men sexy who are not incels, and who are also, sadly, violent toward women.

I'm a woman and have worked with domestic abuse victims for years. Certainly these abusers do not fit the commonly accepted definition of an involuntary celibate.

[cilla4progress]

61. 1) incel is not the same thing as involuntary celibate,

as has been repeatedly stated here. It is a short-hand, much like "Nazi" is shorthand for generally fascist-minded folks, not to be confused with the actual abbreviation for National Socialist German Workers' Party , which it is. Taken to mean; commonly understood; in the common parlance.

2) I also work with DV victims. I agree that on the surface, or in their personal online habits, domestic abusers may not be incels. But they share their hatred of and violence towards women.

In any case, this thread was about incels, not domestic abusers.

[Treefrog]

62. Google and others disagree with you on the definition.

[cilla4progress]

63. Show me?

[progree]

64. Merriam Webster, as discussed in #46 above, but here it is again for convenience

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/incel

"a person (usually a man) who regards himself or herself as being involuntarily celibate and typically expresses extreme resentment and hostility toward those who are sexually active"

And in #46, I replied

Did you miss the "typically" in the Merriam Webster definition. That means some don't express extreme resentment. In my case I not only not express resentment, but don't feel resentment. Nor do I feel hostility towards those who are sexually active. But I still fit the definition.

incel is an abbreviation for involuntary celibate. I don't think any rational person thinks it's an abbreviation of something else, or not an abbreviation at all. So when someone uses the term, I wish they would make the meaning clear - that they are not talking about all involuntary celibates, but rather the subset that are resentful and feel entitled or worse -- act on that in some way or another.

4 other people on this thread feel the same way I do. All I have ever asked is clarification in the OP, like in https://www.democraticunderground.com/100217276934#post58

[cilla4progress]

65. "typically"

Dictionary Definitions from Oxford Languages
typ·i·cal·ly
/ˈtipik(ə lē/
Learn to pronounce
adverb
in most cases; usually.
"the quality of work is typically very high"
with the distinctive qualities of a particular type of person or thing.
adverb: typically
"typically masculine social roles"
in a way that is characteristic of a particular person or thing.
"David lit up many gatherings with his typically forthright comments"

[progree]

66. Typically doesn't mean always in that definition or any other definition I've ever seen

in most cases; usually.

Does not mean always. Does allow for exceptions.

In a way that is characteristic of a particular person or thing.
"David lit up many gatherings with his typically forthright comments"

Again, does not mean always. Does allow for exceptions.

Nice try though

incel is an abbreviation for involuntary incelibacy.

Once again, all I've ever asked you to do is clarify your intent or meaning in the OP.

4 people agree with me in this thread

[cilla4progress]

74. I believe I've done that.

You are just not able to accept it.

We will just have to agree to disagree. As grownups do!

[Treefrog]

75. Interesting that you cite Oxford Languages.

That is what Google references when giving the definition of incel as an involuntary celibate.

[gulliver]

59. They're just misguided and lost

Here I'm talking about the ones who stray into resentment and anger instead of getting their acts together and becoming men women would value.

[Scrivener7]

68. Well... misguided, lost, and at times murderous to women.

[Initech]

73. And then put a bunch of like minded men in the same room. Hate ensues.

[treestar]

78. It's not involuntary

especially for men; there are more women than men out there.

It's either their standards - they are ordinary and expect extraordinarily beautiful women, or more likely, the don't like that women are no longer under their control - thus envying the men of the past. Either way, it's their choice to be that way.