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In It to Win It

(8,253 posts)
Sun Oct 23, 2022, 01:47 PM Oct 2022

He's 9 months old and a U.S. citizen. Why does Florida DCF want to send him to Haiti?

Miami Herald via Yahoo News

He was born in Broward County to a troubled mother who lost permanent custody due to mental health struggles. His mother’s parental rights to three of her older children had already been terminated. His father, back in Haiti, was not in the picture.

Urged on by the Florida Department of Children & Families, a circuit court judge has ruled that 9-months old Ector — by birthright an American citizen — should be sent to Haiti to be with his maternal grandmother, who lives in a mountainous region and has no steady income. The Florida foster family that has raised him since he was a week old fears for his safety in a country torn by kidnapping gangs and catastrophic hunger and wants to adopt him. They are suing to keep him here in their care.

Haiti is a country on the verge of collapse. Armed gangs regularly block roads and close down hospitals and schools and an ongoing gang blockade is making fuel and drinking water scarce, leading to a deadly cholera outbreak and food shortages. The State Department has warned U.S. citizens not to go, and said those living there should depart Haiti now in light of the current security and health situation and infrastructure challenges.

He could be sent to Haiti any day despite the concerns of his foster parents, who have struggled in their legal effort to keep him here.

“He was born here. This is his birthright,” Simmons said, adding that the child is formula fed. “He has the right to clean water, and he has the right to not starve.”

In August, Broward Circuit Judge Jose Izquierdo sided with state welfare authorities and ruled that Ector should be placed with his maternal grandmother because he found that she is the closest responsible relative. That move, the judge said, would reunite Ector with still another sibling in the grandmother’s care and place Ector “in proximity” to his legal father — to whom Ector’s mother was married at the time of his birth — though court records do not show him expressing any interest in the child. The couple is now estranged. Separately, there is a biological father, who also is not involved with the child. Both men are in Haiti.
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He's 9 months old and a U.S. citizen. Why does Florida DCF want to send him to Haiti? (Original Post) In It to Win It Oct 2022 OP
I'll take melanin for 1,000 Alex. onecaliberal Oct 2022 #1
+1 2naSalit Oct 2022 #2
+1 uponit7771 Oct 2022 #12
This message was self-deleted by its author JI7 Oct 2022 #21
Maybe if Ector changed his name to Elian Gonzalez? sop Oct 2022 #3
Uhm, Elian was sent back even tho under US policies he had the right to stay Arazi Oct 2022 #5
IIRC, Elian's father wanted him back Retrograde Oct 2022 #8
All true Arazi Oct 2022 #13
Elian was not a US citizen, and his father actually wanted him back. LisaL Oct 2022 #14
Absolutely true. I made exactly that point in post #5 Arazi Oct 2022 #16
If the 9-month-old child were Cuban, he'd have the entire Miami Cuban-American community on sop Oct 2022 #11
I dunno, Elian was used as a political prop for the Castros too Arazi Oct 2022 #17
The father was already involved in politics which also meant he JI7 Oct 2022 #19
For a bunch of guys who claim to have the BDE... Cracklin Charlie Oct 2022 #4
No opinion on this decision, Hortensis Oct 2022 #6
They aren't returning this child to his parents. LisaL Oct 2022 #9
He's going to his grandmother and his brother and other family. Hortensis Oct 2022 #20
I don't know what she believes, but if US is telling US citizens to leave Haiti, LisaL Oct 2022 #24
I don't know either. But I do know that Hortensis Oct 2022 #25
Because the Florida GOP are a bunch of psychopaths? Initech Oct 2022 #7
The correct thing to do... EndlessWire Oct 2022 #10
Very wise proposal nt delisen Oct 2022 #15
That seems reasonable, ergo, would enrage the racist bastards. Hermit-The-Prog Oct 2022 #18
It's possible the grandmother has no interest in coming to the US JI7 Oct 2022 #22
Hence I said "offer." EndlessWire Oct 2022 #23

Response to onecaliberal (Reply #1)

Arazi

(6,829 posts)
5. Uhm, Elian was sent back even tho under US policies he had the right to stay
Sun Oct 23, 2022, 02:27 PM
Oct 2022

A US court made him return

Retrograde

(10,137 posts)
8. IIRC, Elian's father wanted him back
Sun Oct 23, 2022, 03:40 PM
Oct 2022

Elian was taken from Cuba by his mother without his father's permission. As the sole surviving parent, who wanted custody and had the means to support the child, the courts gave the father custody over some more distant relatives in Miami whose argument seems to have been: We're anti-Castro and we can make things hard for any Democrat running in Florida.

Arazi

(6,829 posts)
13. All true
Sun Oct 23, 2022, 04:32 PM
Oct 2022

I’m only commenting that the courts can side with family reunification overriding legal precedent as they did with Elian Gonzalez.

LisaL

(44,973 posts)
14. Elian was not a US citizen, and his father actually wanted him back.
Sun Oct 23, 2022, 04:33 PM
Oct 2022

This child is a US citizen, and his father aparrently has no interest in raising him. So there is no similarity between this case and that of Elian Gonzales.

Arazi

(6,829 posts)
16. Absolutely true. I made exactly that point in post #5
Sun Oct 23, 2022, 04:50 PM
Oct 2022

Elian made it to the US and therefore was entitled to stay in the US under (then) US immigration laws.

This Haitian child is a US citizen and should stay here but the courts may decide differently.

Therein lies my (only) point about family reunification sometimes superseding the law

sop

(10,191 posts)
11. If the 9-month-old child were Cuban, he'd have the entire Miami Cuban-American community on
Sun Oct 23, 2022, 04:27 PM
Oct 2022

his side, demanding he stay and not be sent back. DeSantis and Rubio would be demagoguing the issue, trying to gain a few votes in South Florida. But, since he's Haitian, that won't happen.

Arazi

(6,829 posts)
17. I dunno, Elian was used as a political prop for the Castros too
Sun Oct 23, 2022, 04:57 PM
Oct 2022

Still is.

He’s their model Cuban comunista prop.

Maybe this baby will find some similar politico in Haiti when he’s sent back

Kids as political props everywhere eh?

(Sucks)

JI7

(89,251 posts)
19. The father was already involved in politics which also meant he
Sun Oct 23, 2022, 07:29 PM
Oct 2022

would have a comfortable life in Cuba unlike most people.

Kids are used politically here also and kids get shot in schools here.

Cracklin Charlie

(12,904 posts)
4. For a bunch of guys who claim to have the BDE...
Sun Oct 23, 2022, 02:19 PM
Oct 2022

They sure love to pick on children.

Literally a baby, in this case. They always “punch down”.
Maybe my attorney general, Eric Schmitt, can help Desantis deport an American citizen. He loves attacking children.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
6. No opinion on this decision,
Sun Oct 23, 2022, 02:34 PM
Oct 2022

but our courts have always, or at least have always been supposed to, protected the rights of parents/family to their children and the value and rights of children to be with their family.

LisaL

(44,973 posts)
9. They aren't returning this child to his parents.
Sun Oct 23, 2022, 04:02 PM
Oct 2022

His mother is in US (she lost parental rights), and his father apparently has no interest in him.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
20. He's going to his grandmother and his brother and other family.
Sun Oct 23, 2022, 07:38 PM
Oct 2022

This is a very common situation, including the outrage of Americans that we would allow a child to be sent to family in an underdeveloped nation and denied all our advantages.

It might help those who are bothered to remember that people in other nations, including ones with much lower standards of living, often strongly disapprove of various elements of our culture and the way we raise our children here and feel their ways are much better. Many who come here to work leave their children with relatives so they will be raised in their own culture. Over the years, I’ve met many who felt that way.

Note that this baby’s grandmother did not say oh thank goodness on learning than a loving American couple wanted to keep her grandson, so presumably she doesn’t believe her circumstances are as dire as some might imagine.

LisaL

(44,973 posts)
24. I don't know what she believes, but if US is telling US citizens to leave Haiti,
Sun Oct 23, 2022, 11:36 PM
Oct 2022

I don't see how it possibly makes sense to send a US citizen baby there. This baby has three other siblings in the US who were allowed to be adopted in the US.
I have no clue as to why he is treated differently from his three siblings. Why is he supposed to go to grandma, and the other three were allowed to be adopted? It's the same grandma for all siblings since she is a maternal grandmother. So DCF is not even being consistent here.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
25. I don't know either. But I do know that
Mon Oct 24, 2022, 03:32 AM
Oct 2022

I don’t believe strangers with no involvement and no knowledge of the situation and people involved should assume their opinions are better those of the professionals who do, and of the family. As I said I have no opinion as to what the better disposition would probably be, because I think that would be highly irresponsible, arrogant and disrespectful, to put it mildly. First do no harm.

Btw, we know that many of the people who took children kidnapped at the border with the intention of adopting them themselves or out to American families thought they were doing them a wonderful favor. Many of their families were dreadfully poor and in worse position than a family with a home and community in Haiti. The lack of American citizenship to base their imagined rights to take the children on was not the reason that was nevertheless dreadfully wrong, to the point of evil. I imagine you agree that sincerity and genuine concern for the well-being of the children are no excuse for them.

The right of families to their children is close to sacred both secularly and religiously in virtually all cultures. The exception is authoritarian states that take children for various reasons, elevating the power of the authorities over the nonexistent rights of the people involved. The kidnapping of the children at the border was a state sanctioned authoritarian action by tRump’s government. We don’t do that, and we don’t use American citizenship as an excuse to do it. There have to be compelling reasons for the child.


EndlessWire

(6,536 posts)
10. The correct thing to do...
Sun Oct 23, 2022, 04:10 PM
Oct 2022

If they are so all fired up to reunite this baby with a distant relative, let's offer this Grandmother US citizenship, along with the other sibling, and move them all to a state where they will be welcome. Maybe move the adopting family, too, and let them all be a familial group.

Geez...we just sent some armored cars or something to Haiti. If it is so bad there, no food or water, perpetual environmental threats...just end this problem by offering Granny an easier way of life. A no brainer.

EndlessWire

(6,536 posts)
23. Hence I said "offer."
Sun Oct 23, 2022, 11:33 PM
Oct 2022

We can recognize this baby as an "anchor baby" with our ability to offer relatives citizenship. We have a perfect example in FPOTUS Trump, whose wife ended up with her parents and sister all living comfortably ever after.

It's hard to imagine that someone would choose abject poverty, illness, malnutrition, and lack of opportunity over a legal chance to immigrate. Well, let's say Granny is rich. Didn't sound like it, but okay. We could still ask her what she wants to do. We could even ask the father. Of course, the baby's best bet would be staying with potential adoptive parents, but you never know.

I say bring Granny and the sibling over. If they don't like it, they can go back! But, why deport a bona fide American citizen just because he is a baby and can't defend himself?

Let's get him a lawyer. Surely Trump hasn't gone through every lawyer in the state of Florida, at least not yet. There's probably one left. Kid needs a lawyer.

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