House progressives just withdrew their Ukraine letter

[Nevilledog]

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Greg Sargent
@ThePlumLineGS
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House progressives just withdrew their Ukraine letter:

"The letter was drafted several months ago, but unfortunately was released by staff without vetting...it is a distraction at this time and we withdraw the letter.”
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9:44 AM · Oct 25, 2022

[ColinC]

1. Who even thought that would have been good idea?

[tritsofme]

53. What a load of nonsense.

[Tickle]

55. no need to be rude NT

[Jakes Progress]

60. I'm sure that would be the position

of the Russian bot farm that follows all of these threads and tries to influence American thought by posting with bogus accounts.

[Joinfortmill]

65. Negotiations are delicate things...

I'm sure you agree. Their methods were more like a
loud thud.

[sarisataka]

69. Do you support

Ukraine surrendering to Russia?

Because no matter what color lipstick you put on that pig, that is what the letter called for- buried amongst many pretty words of course. Is it worth Ukraine giving up some territory to have peace in our time?

[Warpy]

71. JFK knew what the government wouldn't admit to the US people

and that was that the whole missile crisis was started when the US put nuclear ICBM silos in Turkey. That's why Russia responded by putting them into Cuba. Since neither leader wanted to be leader of an ash heap, they dismantled theirs and we dismantled ours.

Negotiations have to be carried out in good faith. That is impossible right now as Putin is locked into a fantasy world and is driven by zealotry that tells him that being a pathological liar is showing strength. The Russians will have to be completely kicked out of Ukraine before he'll admit he's been licked and will come to the table to stop the strikes that will likely be ongoing on the Russian side of the Russian-Ukrainian border, Ukraine being well within their rights to attack military installations that threaten it. The Russians will likely still be shelling them and launching missiles from their side of the border.

Any negotiations before that point will be futile. As long as Putin has conquered any of their territory, he will sign anything to give Russia some time to regroup, rearm, and restart his stupid war. He will have to be utterly and completely defeated before he or anyone else in that government will start to be reasonable.

[Emrys]

81. No, I don't think we're out of our fucking minds.

And I'm an old peacenik who served his time at peace camps and being active in various other ways during the 1980s. Where were you?

What in Putin's conduct makes you imagine for one minute that he interprets capitulation as other than weakness and a green light to push ahead with his deranged agenda even more?

What in his stewardship of the Russian federation and the occupied territories in Ukraine makes you fantasize that surrender to his rule leads to anything but corruption that benefits him and his cronies, widespread torture and genocide?

What makes you think that rewarding his threats of nuclear strikes with concessions will not spur him to threaten even more?

There will be a time for negotiation, and that will be on Ukraine's terms once Putin's troops have been driven out of the occupied territories and we can begin addressing multiple war crimes, reparations and a future role for whatever's left of the Russian Federation that doesn't mean continuing peril for its neighbours and the rest of the world.

[W_HAMILTON]

87. Found him.

[Calculating]

100. You'd be out of your mind to suggest negotiating at this point

The Russians are on the run and getting pushed out of their illegally stolen territories. They've committed horrible crimes against the Ukrainians and it's not our call to say that Ukraine should "let Russia win" because Putin has you scared of nukes. Nuclear blackmail can never be allowed to work or the future will be nothing but nuclear blackmail and proliferation which will make nuclear war even more likely.

[Cha]

105. Are you? nt

[NullTuples]

92. There were times this year when it looked like Ukraine might not be able to stop Putin

If that came to pass, I can see a situation where the USA adding our weight behind negotiations might help.

So from that perspective the, "this is an old letter" does make sense.

[Fiendish Thingy]

2. Unforced error

An astoundingly boneheaded move.

I wonder who was responsible?

[TheBlackAdder]

86. If something got released by error, generally it's stated so within hours.

[Fiendish Thingy]

89. I meant error, as in baseball, or a self goal- this didn't have to happen

[TheBlackAdder]

96. 👍

[Phoenix61]

3. Awesome! A sign of maturity is knowing when to change

your message.

[BeyondGeography]

4. Staffers gone wild, eh?

Sure, Bob. Whaddya say we get a beer?

[W_HAMILTON]

5. What lowly staff has the authorization to release such a letter?

[AZSkiffyGeek]

7. Or authorized a big press conference about it?

[chowder66]

46. I cannot find a press conference on it. Media used an old photo.

Progressive Caucus Addresses Media Ahead Of Inflation Reduction Act Vote

WASHINGTON, DC - AUGUST 12: Rep. Pramila Jayapal (D-WA) and fellow members of the House Progressive Caucus hold a news conference ahead of the vote on the Inflation Reduction Act of 2022 outside the U.S. Capitol on August 12, 2022 in Washington, DC. Despite not achieving everything the House liberals wanted, the $737 billion act will focus on slowing climate change, lower health care costs, and creating clean energy jobs by enacting a 15% corporate minimum tax, and a 1% fee on stock buybacks, and enhancing IRS enforcement. (Photo by Chip Somodevilla/Getty Images)

The last image is the one I have seen in articles about the Ukraine letter.

https://www.gettyimages.com/search/2/image?events=775856967

Here's the video of the original presser.
https://www.c-span.org/video/?522323-1/house-progressive-caucus-inflation-reduction-act

[Cha]

54. "..Distraction at this time?.." Edit to Correct "presser"

Last edited Tue Oct 25, 2022, 03:34 PM - Edit history (1)

So they still believe it For Another Time?

[Celerity]

77. that presser photo was from an entirely different event, as has been shown on this thread

see

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100217283977#post46


dirty biz by WaPo, smdh

they have fucking deleted and replaced the pic now


here is the original Wapo article with the non related pic

https://archive.ph/6iKdH






NOW look at the live site for the article, they SWITCHED the pic today

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/10/24/biden-ukraine-liberals/

[NullTuples]

79. The "presser" is old, and was held for a different purpose?

[Cha]

94. Yeah TY, I learned that later... the

rest of the post still stands, though.

[NullTuples]

98. "for another time" referring to when it was unknown if Ukraine could hold off Putin

And, McConnell has at times signaled that the GOP wouldn't support sending aid.

So I can see a few times where suggesting the USA throw our weight (such as it is, given that we invaded Iraq not so very long ago) behind negotiations if it looked like Putin was not going to be stopped by the Ukraine army at that moment in time.

Also, assuming their story is true, the letter was prepared but not sent. I'm guessing that happens a lot.

[uponit7771]

13. +1,

[onenote]

18. And to affix members' signatures to the letter?

[DFW]

19. His name is:

Leonard Irving Edwards.

Commonly known by his initials.

They would have been better off just saying, we had our heads up our asses, and apologize. Temporary mass brain damage. It won't happen again!

[Ray Bruns]

25. LOL

[cornball 24]

28. Love it!!

[Person of Interest]

34. You win the Internet for the day! LoL!!!

[Jakes Progress]

63. I would vote for the politician who was honest enough to do that.

[Tarheel_Dem]

83. Okay, you owe me a keyboard.

[DFW]

91. It was all Leonard. I had nothing to do with it!

No, really!

[highplainsdem]

6. Good. It should never have been drafted in the first place.

[StormKing]

8. Blaming staffers is COWARDICE n/t

[Cha]

56. Yeah, its BACKFIRE BACKLASH!

".. Distraction at this time..".. So they're saving it for another Time?

[Ocelot II]

9. Good; that letter was really stupid and the timing couldn't have been worse.

While I tend to agree in principle with a lot of what the Progressive Caucus does, some of them occasionally shoot off their mouths in unhelpful ways.

[herding cats]

10. A rogue staffer?

Ok, sure.

Glad it was retracted. It was the correct action to take.

[MontanaFarmer]

14. That's nonsense.

If a rogue staffer released this why did they schedule a big press conference with jayapal knocking people over to get to a camera? Terrible own goal here with terrible timing.

[herding cats]

21. Oh, I know it's bullshit.

You know it's bullshit and so does everyone else know it's bullshit.

That it was what seemed like the best excuse for the asinine release of this letter is ridiculous.

[Cha]

59. Not buying it.. I say BACKFIRE BACKLASH!

".. Distraction at this time.." Does that mean they're saving they're "Staffer" Letter for another time?

[SheltieLover]

11. We don't negotiate with terrorists.

[jaxexpat]

93. That's what I tell the guy in the mirror when he gets on my nerves.

[Just A Box Of Rain]

12. An unacceptable response IMO.

Blaming a staffer of this outrageous action is very weak sauce.

The timing and tenor of this appeasement is as odious today (on the eve on an election) as it was just after Bucha.

Jayapal has much to answer for over this incident and this letter is not sufficient in this Democrat's estimation. Not even close.

[budkin]

15. ABSOLUTE MORONS

Try thinking BEFORE you do stupid shit.

[sarisataka]

16. Wasn't there also a press conference?

Also- it's a distraction at this time? So you don't deny the message, only the timing is inconvenient?


Now to be fair, all of the links go to articles in the May-June time frame. However that indicates Russian successes at that time left them considering we should help Ukraine with a negotiated settlement, i.e. surrender.

The drafting of the letter was extremely ill considered and the release/ retraction nothing short of a fiasco.

"Staff" should not be releasing such volatile documents without express approval. It begs the question why was anyone even looking at it, let alone sending it to the White House and press???

[Cha]

67. Yes a Presser that seems to be

Forgotten.. hard to blame that on a "Staffer".. also begs the question.. "Who's in Charge there?

That ".. Distraction at this time..." Stood out for me, also.. Are they and their "Staffers" saving it for another Time?

TY for your post.

[Princess Turandot]

17. They signed it just yesterday without reading it?

^^snort^^

[padah513]

20. I know right?

Like somebody said in an earlier post, this was an unforced error.

[Celerity]

119. They signed it in June and/or early July. It was sat on for months, then

Jayapal sandbagged the other 29 signers and just released it, with no consultation, no heads up, no chance to revice a by now out of date letter, etc.

Examples from the blindsided:

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[Hortensis]

22. Hope the Progressive Caucus "withdraws" Jayapal from leadership.

This disruption and mistake in judgment (and subsequent failure) are all part of a now-established pattern. As I mentioned elsewhere, with a critically important election almost upon us I'd wondered if she'd once again do something that put her in the spotlight, once again supported by only a minority of the 100-member caucus.

Well, once again there's a spotlight on her -- at what is an especially existential moment for the Democratic Party, and thus the nation.

[Scrivener7]

23. Well. That is embarassing for them. And for us.

[Tarheel_Dem]

24. Well, who couldn't see this coming?

[DFW]

30. The fact that THEY couldn't see it coming is alarming

It indicates they are attributing too much star power to themselves, completely forgetting that it was their message that made them into celebrities. Being a celebrity does NOT give you the right to then say stupid things and then expect people to cheer regardless. Have they forgotten so soon who Donald Trump and Herschel Walker are?

[Tarheel_Dem]

45. Celebrity has its rewards, but one's own celebrity can become intoxicating for them, but quite...

toxic for the rest of us. I cringe when I see every utterance from some of these "celebrity" office holders posted here on a regular basis, as if everything they say should etched in stone like the Commandments. I don't idolize these people, and wish many of them would just put their heads down, work their asses off & keep their mouths shut, lest it come back to haunt us all. This is another of those instances, where they just handed the opposition talking points just days before a major election.

[Hortensis]

72. Yes. Creating and passing progressive legislation is the job.

If people only insisted on that as a basic standard to be met, it'd be fine if a legislator also thrilled people by reciting great quotes about democracy while twirling flaming batons. Just not instead.

[Tarheel_Dem]

80. I've always been an adherent to the worker bee philosophy. Keeping one's head down, and getting....

the job done should be the goal. I don't need to be covered in glory and adoration just for simply "saying stuff", or "smack talking". We've always had those who, in furthereance of their own egotistical brands, never miss an opportunity to mug for the nearest camera. I think that says quite a lot about them, but I won't get into that here. Jayapal should step down, and if she won't, her colleagues should force her out like they do in the UK.

[Hortensis]

99. You'll never get to be a charismatic populist leader that way, though.

I realize it may not come naturally; and unlike those to whom it does, you may get no particular pleasure from adulation.

But, consider this: Once you've drawn a following, LW or RW, or both, all you have to do to keep it is to continue criticizing Democrats. Every time you raise your head to toss another little criticism on the fire, the level of admiring mentions and donations will pick up. And whenever you do a really bomb-throwing job of it, even just a particularly obnoxious tweet that takes maybe 20 seconds, donations and cheers from admirers will flood in!

When I think about it, I'm grateful they don't ALL blow off legislating to take up populist demagoguery instead. There're obviously huge markets for it. Just choose a favorite grievance to hit -- class inequality, immigration, #justsayno, Second Amendment rights, whatever -- and see if you're any good at it.

If you are you'll know because from Day 1 new adorers will be calling for you to Run For President...! "President Tarheel Dem!"

[betsuni]

101. Accusing Democrats of corruption because of campaign donations is very good for drumming up

one's own donations.

[Hortensis]

104. Umhm. Most of these "outside special interests" never imagine

that their "grassroots" Big Money flowing to a politician could be even more corrupting of democracy than a big check from a local sawmill owner. When they use online donations to force their interests on distant constituencies, it's a good thing.

[DFW]

85. Fellow cringer here! n/t

[Cha]

76. Yes it is Alarming.. I say they

Withdrew the Letter because of BACKFIROMG BACKLASH.

".. Distraction at this time.." Does that mean they'll come up with a better time than right beffore an Election to tell PJB to negotiate with Putin?"

[RobinA]

82. Some Of Those

signers have made a government career (short as it has been) of attributing too much star power to themselves. That and being completely tone deaf.

[DFW]

88. I can find, unfortunately, no fault whatsoever with what you said.

Actors and models are hired to pose. Not legislators.

[karin_sj]

26. I'm glad they withdrew it

But it's disappointing that it even went public at all

[Cha]

78. They had to.. BACKFIRING BACKLASH. nt

[betsuni]

27. Was there a press conference or not? I see photos but no details about what was said.

Did no one show up but photographers?

Also, I keep hearing how new progressive leadership is going to fix everything. Oh wait, I guess actual experience and good judgement are more important.

[Tomconroy]

39. Apparently there wasn't. The pictures are from another press conference

[betsuni]

44. Yes, I just saw that the photo was from August 12.

[spanone]

52. That's our media...infuriating

[Tomconroy]

29. Jayapal must resign as leader of the Progressive Caucus.

[budkin]

62. Absolutely

She's totally lost it.

[Jakes Progress]

66. If she were honest about it.

Did she release it on her own? Did the whole caucus draft this ridiculous "blame the staff" memo?

We can't call for the republicans to be transparent if we won't be.

I like Jayapal, but the whole this is fubar - from the original letter to the cowardly denial. That is a ted cruz move.

[Tomconroy]

70. She posted the letter on the CP website and twitter feed despite

Only 30 members signed. It took her over 24 hrs and the outrage of a nation for her to figure out she needed to blame unnamed and unfired staffers

[Grins]

31. A 4-month old letter and it was suddenly released?

My paranoia may be showing but I smell a rat.

[amb123]

32. This won't stop the GOP from screaming APEASEMENT a 100 times a day until election day.

What the hell was the Caucus thinking?

[Tomconroy]

38. The caucus has 100 members. This wasn't the caucus

Although Jayapal tried to pretend it was.

[Cha]

90. And, "See Both Sides Do It' a Cover

for JD Vance in Ohio for Example.

[lees1975]

33. And after initially drafting that letter, they couldn't see how it might be perceived?

Why push for negotiations if the intention is to stay united behind the president's position on Ukraine?

Come on, you know better than that.

At least these people admit their mistake. The GOP would still be defending their stupidity.

[Cha]

97. By Blaming it on a "Staffer".. nt

".. Distraction at this time.."

[Efilroft Sul]

35. What made them all think their Ukraine stance was a good idea in the first place?

Henry Ford looked up from his place in hell yesterday and smiled.

[Tomconroy]

36. The retraction is actually just as bad as the original letter.

[Tarheel_Dem]

49. Amen to that. Jayapal should step down, without delay. n/t

[Sky Jewels]

37. What a massive fuck up.

[barbtries]

40. it infuriated me to consider

so i never read it. Ukraine must win. It would be a travesty for putin to walk away with anything at all, including his power and ill-gained wealth. That's where I'm at.

[Beastly Boy]

41. It appears that Jayapal is more concerned about the timing than the message

That doesn't make things any better

[ananda]

42. Good!

I was wondering how they could be so misguided.

But it looks like a staff error, so OK.

At least that's a good cover for having made such
a huge mistake.

[NoMoreRepugs]

43. Kids table.......

[3825-87867]

47. Optical Rectitus

Must have been.

[link:https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=optical%20rectitis|

[LudwigPastorius]

50. "unfortunately was released by staff without vetting"

That madcap staff gots some splainin' to do!

...always trying to get The Squad in hijinks and hot water.

[moondust]

58. "several months ago"

something like this may or may not have been plausible to try to stop the war crimes before they got worse. Maybe back when the criminals failed to take Kyiv and shifted their focus to the east to cut their losses.

"released by staff without vetting" suggests possible sabotage from within.

[Joinfortmill]

61. Wise decision

[Cha]

102. What.. Blaming it on the "Staff"?

".. Distraction at this time.." Meaning they'll save it for Another time?

Who's in charge there?

[LuvLoogie]

64. Staff's fault? I call bullshit.

So who made the decision to withdraw?

[Cha]

103. BACKFIRE & BACKLASH. nt

[Joinfortmill]

111. No.

[relayerbob]

68. "Released by a staffer"

Check the bank records of said staffer.

[TygrBright]

73. Good for them. Grown-ups admit their mistakes, fix it as best they can, move on and do better. n/t

[Cha]

106. By blaming it on a "Staffer"? nt

[dsp3000]

84. Way to fuck the democrats. Morons all of them

[relayerbob]

95. Ignore these distractions

And note to those who make this into a big deal …. This is a clear contrast to the GQP that doubles down on every idiotic statement, racist trope or criminal action. We admit mistakes and move on. Very simple.

Meanwhile, FOCUS on the upcoming election, we have jobs to do.

[Cha]

107. The PC was Not " Focusing on the

Upcoming Election"

And, they are being called out.. NOW we Can Focus After the BACKFIRING BACKLASH and they Withdrew the Letter.

[relayerbob]

110. Here's a suggestion for you

After reading your other tropes. Not that you'll care. But, wake up! This sort of response is fueling the fire. But then, you actually know that, don't you?

[Cha]

113. Poor Misunderstood PC.. ".. Distracting

at this time.." What does that even mean?

They're going to release the Infamous Letter at a more Convenient time?

"Clear" as mud.

Oh and your personal attacks aren't working.

[relayerbob]

114. Probably wouldn't make sense to you

Since you are inventing statements that I didn't make.

And, I wouldn't call them personal attacks, simply observations on your poor behavior. You would know if I was launching personal attacks.

[Cha]

115. Anyone who personally attacks.. Loses. Bye.

[relayerbob]

116. One more for the block list

[Hortensis]

108. A LIGHT TURNS ON: Speaker PELOSI'S in Zagreb today pledging our support

at the First Parliamentary Summit of the International Crimea Platform.

"It probably has nothing to do with the fact that Nancy Pelosi is in Crimea pledging support for Ukraine...right?"— JayJay (@jayjay827) October 25, 2022 (Thanks, JayJay. Duh!)

From Speaker Pelosi's address: "...We spoke of the power of unity in the fight to support Ukraine and hold Russia accountable, especially the unity of the world's parliaments to do so. ... We’re very proud that NATO elected an American head of the summit ...

We join our G7, NATO, European and other global partners in an unmistakable statement of the free world’s unity that we stand with Ukraine.

This platform was established to bring the end of Russia's occupation of Crimea and to restore control of Ukraine over the territory, in full accordance with international law. Crimea is Ukraine. ..."

The First Parliamentary Summit of the International Crimea Platform is expected to conclude with the adoption of a Joint Statement in which participants reaffirm their commitment to the non-recognition of Russia’s illegal and illegitimate territorial claims and recommit to supporting Ukraine to resist Russia’s aggression.

[mcar]

109. And pulled the old "a staffer did it"

[Nixie]

112. Yeah, especially after one of them had a rather bizarre townhall

where she may be trying to overcompensate now.

[Tarheel_Dem]

120. Sounds like the old "dog ate my homework" we used to pull in 9th grade. Very childish of Jayapal.

[Meowmee]

117. Just when you think it can't get any crazier it does, and it gets even crazier

[Cha]

118. "Mistake after mistake after mistake.."

Link to tweet