A few of my thoughts about Ukraine

[Tomconroy]

I've been a loud mouth about this cause. I actually left this site for a while because I knew if I expressed my strong disagreements with the Biden administration policy I would be banned. But now, as some democrats align themselves with Putin and trump I'd like to say a few things.
1. I wanted Ukraine to negotiate back in March when Ukraine was negotiating. Then we found out about Bucha.
2. All wars do not end with negotiations. The Civil War and WW II did not.
3. Ukraine will not start WW III. Ukraine has no nuclear weapons to launch at Russia. It has no control over what Russia will do. If Russia launches nuclear weapons in Ukraine it will be up to the West to respond or more specifically the US or more specifically Joe Biden. Ukraine has no control over that response, if there is one. Ukraine will continue to fight even if Putin uses nuclear weapons or other wmd.
4. The war will end sooner if the West provides more and better weapons to Ukraine: tanks, ACATMS shells, F16s. But if the West chooses not to do that Ukraine will continue to fight.
5. If you agree with any of the above write your congress person and say so. You can make a difference. I owe Rosa DeLauro another letter

[Emrys]

1. I haven't seen you be a loudmouth.

As somebody who's been keeping up with events in Ukraine as best I can to an almost (well, definitely, if I'm honest) obsessive degree, I've been glad to see your posts of as hard information as we can gather through the fog of war, and I've appreciated your efforts.

I may be wrong, but I don't sense that you're in a minority on DU in your views.

If you are, so am I.

[Bev54]

2. What did you disagree with Biden on?

[Tomconroy]

7. I thought we should have given air cover in April.

I think we should have provided F16s. Long range artillery shells that can reach 180km. More MLRS.
I think we should have bombed ever RR bridge I western Russia. Obviously not everyone will agree with me.
And as for those people who told me to go fight in Ukraine if I were 40 years younger and my health hadn't been ruined by cancer treatment I would have gone last spring. All I can do is send money and help the NAFO effort to harrass Russians on twitter. I feel guilty I can't do more.

[Bev54]

8. Yes I disagree, I think that NATO collectively needs to make decisions

based on all factors and the European countries are the ones that will bear the brunt on this illegal invasion, should Putin escalate to other countries. I do believe that Biden is handling this well, except I think the US and or Israel should have provided them with much more Iron curtain defence weapons. Troops would be great but for sure it would have escalated into a full scale continental war. I wish Ukraine was not going through this and we should do all we can. I hope many will continue to be generous to get supplies to, not just the military, but the citizens, to get them through the winter with clothing and some type of heating devices. I have a wish and that is there are some resistance groups in Russia that can target their energy structures within Russia.

[Emrys]

10. I disagree with some of that, but these were judgement calls, and I think Biden got it right.

It's a fine balance between calling Putin's many bluffs and putting us in Europe in even more jeopardy than we are now - and NATO's member states do have to pull their electorates along with them. So far, so good. We have a long haul ahead.

Earlier in the year, we were still coming to terms with what a poor state the Russian Federation's armed forces were in. We also weren't sure whether readings of Putin's psychology and history that maintained that he responds positively (from our perspective) to strength and negatively to perceived weakness were still accurate. It looks a surer bet now, but still a gamble.

I also think that some of the courses of action you mention would have played into Putin's rhetoric that he's not fighting Ukraine, he's fighting the USA and NATO. Defeat by Ukraine - not even a state in his mind, let alone a far more functional one than Putin's - would be a major humiliation for him.

Some of the measures you mention may still come to pass - but maybe at the end of the hot conflict. I could conceive of a no-fly buffer zone and demilitarized zone on and beyond Ukraine's borders while the aftermath played out (I suspect it would involve the break-up in some form and over an unknown timescale of the Russian Federation), whether under NATO auspices or the UN's (if Russia gets kicked off the Security Council and its hitherto allies see what side their bread's buttered).

[mitch96]

3. I totally agree.. The war will be over when every ruzzian soldier is out of Ukraine and

it has its pre 2014/1992 borders back. Reparations must be made for what they caused.
You can't bring back the lost lives but you can help the families of the fallen.
The west has over 600 billion of ruzzias money that they stashed in the west. That is a start.
My only fear is that corruption might mess things up... We maybe need some variety of Marshall plan and get economic assistance to restore the economic infrastructure.
Ukraine needs to win this war and also win the peace if it's gonna work.
Then get them into NATO. The Ukraine Army is a proven entity
that the west may need some day...
That's the way I see it. Then again I'm a "little" biased..
My Mom was from what is now Ukraine
Slava Ukraine Heroyam Slava!
m

[Calculating]

4. Exactly

Ukraine isn't giving up until they drive out the invaders, to minimize bloodshed we would give them even better weapons.

[sprinkleeninow]

5. No. 4. The first sentence. Imperative.

Have written the WH several times already.

"Slava Ukraini!" "Slava Na Viki!"

🕊🌻💙🇺🇦💛🌻🕊

[Ex Lurker]

6. Minor quibble

The Civil War did somewhat end with negotiations. The armies of Lee and Johnston, the two major Confederate armies in the field, surrendered on rather lenient terms hammered out between the Union and Confederate commanders, and were allowed to go home without being interned. It's true that there were no government-level negotiations, in part because the Confederate government had disintegrated and there was no one to negotiate with.

[Pluvious]

12. Plus communication was quite the challenge...

IIRC it was a month after the official end of the war the horrific battle of New Orleans took place

[rollin74]

9. overwhelming majority of Ukrainians want to continue armed resistance against Russia

[link:https://www.yahoo.com/now/survey-finds-86-percent-ukrainians-084730998.html|

Ukraine is currently having a lot of success in pushing Russian forces back from areas in Eastern and Southern Ukraine. Russia and its allies are performing poorly on the battlefield. The only thing Russia seems to be able to do with some success is lash out against civilian targets and kill innocent people from a distance. Even then, many (most) Russian missiles and Iranian drones are being shot down by Ukraine's air defenses lately

I agree that the U.S. and NATO should absolutely continue to aggressively support Ukraine and provide advanced weapons systems to counter Putin's bloodlust

[Rebl2]

11. How have

some democrats aligned themselves with putin and tfg?