More dumbfuckery: Activists glue themselves to Goya paintings in Spanish climate protest.

[Floyd R. Turbo]

MADRID, Nov 5 (Reuters) - Climate activists glued their hands to the frames of two world-famous paintings by Spanish master Francisco de Goya in Madrid's Prado museum on Saturday, the latest in a string of protests targeting artworks across Europe.

A man and a woman attached themselves to Goya's "La Maja Vestida" (The Clothed Maja) and his "La Maja Desnuda" (The Naked Maja), and painted "+1.5 C" on the wall between the two works, video footage showed.

"Last week the UN recognised the impossibility of keeping us below the limit of 1.5 Celsius (set in the 2016 Paris climate agreement). We need change now," it wrote on Twitter.

Groups of climate activists have mounted a series of similar protests in recent weeks in the build-up to the COP27 climate change conference in Egypt.

https://www.reuters.com/business/cop/activists-glue-themselves-goya-paintings-spanish-climate-protest-2022-11-05/

[Merlot]

1. It's a non-violent protest designed to draw attention to climate change

Not "dumbfuckery" at all.

[Just A Box Of Rain]

15. It is counter-productive idiocy.

[ZonkerHarris]

19. and it only winds up drawing negative attention to the cause. it's dumbfuckery. Attack the oil co's

not the world's historical art treasures.

Gee why aren't they attacking oil co. resources and properties?
hmmmmmm?

I would say they are idiots but they are probably funded by the oil companies to make the movement look bad.
It's working

I'm all for surrounding the oil companies HQ's with crowds carrying torches and pitchforks for price gouging and climate change
Because I attack the ones actually responsible, not bullshit straw men like these kids who are total dumbfucks.

[muriel_volestrangler]

23. Ah, you subscribe to the conspiracy theory as well

What's your evidence? Or is it just your feelings?

[ZonkerHarris]

32. Please explain to me how this strategy will win over the hearts and minds of the population

[muriel_volestrangler]

34. It gets the climate emergency into the headlines

and gets people to think about 1.5 degrees. It's done a lot more, for instance, on DU, to get climate change into GD than the ongoing road protests, or the airport protest.

It's non-violent, it's non-destructive, and, unlike the road protests, it doesn't get criticism inside the environmental movement.

[ZonkerHarris]

36. I have not heard a single person talk about 1.5

I have not heard a single person talk about 1.5°
I have in my empirical evidence heard people talk about how stupid these people are in the wrong tactic they are taking for it and no talk about climate change yourself

End it is certainly not making climate change the issue when it’s being reported on by the media. It is focusing on the protesters not the issue

[muriel_volestrangler]

37. I answered your question; will you do me the courtesy of answering mine?

You have, of course, heard someone talk about 1.5C; it was me. And it's in the OP too. But if that's the only time you've heard about it recently (with COP27 just starting), then it shows how desperate the need for more publicity about it is. Don't try to shut up climate protesters, even if you don't care much about the environment yourself.

So, to remind you, my question was: "What's your evidence [about your conspiracy theory that "they are probably funded by the oil companies to make the movement look bad"]? Or is it just your feelings?"

[Dorian Gray]

61. Evidence

The number of people on this forum who are sympathetic to the cause who think it's dumbfuckery.

[muriel_volestrangler]

64. No, I said 'evidence', not feelings

If you think the feelings of one small part of the internet are 'evidence', then it's going to be hard to convince you to use logic. There are many MAGAs who feel there was election fraud in 2020, but that's not evidence.

Maybe it would help if you think what the accusation means: that oil companies have infiltrated environmental groups and controlled them to the extent of deciding their strategy, without any real activist in the groups finding out. And that the oil companies think this bad publicity for them ("oil will kill the world" etc.) is worth it for what some see as worse publicity for environmental groups ("these activists are idiots&quot . Why would they see it in such zero-sum terms - that it's worth people saying "oil companies are evil" if they also get headlines saying "activists are stupid"?

[Dorian Gray]

66. I know the difference

There is evidence that multiple people are frustrated by the actions of these activists. They are people who wouldn't donate to their efforts now. That evidence IS the expressed sentiments and feelings of people.

If people who are open to the messaging are turned off by the messaging, you don't have a lot of hope for people who are more difficult to turn onto the message.

I work in the non-profit sector. I have an understanding of effective messaging and fundraising. This isn't it.

ETA: Despite my musings above that if I were a machiavellian oil company CEO... blah blah blah... I don't actually think oil companies have infiltrated these activist circles. I think these activists are just tone deaf and doing something that is ineffective, at best.

I keep insisting upon that because I would never approve action like this to raise awareness to a cause. Positive awareness is important. Brainstorm ways to get the word out/protests out/positive action out. But playing at destroying art has nothing to do with climate change and environmental justice, and it's negative messaging that equates a cause with a NEGATIVE action.

That's a NO NO in non-profit management.

[muriel_volestrangler]

67. Your argument is whether it's effective tactics

It's quite reasonable to believe the 'gallery' tactics are ineffective. The claim in #19 was "they are probably funded by the oil companies to make the movement look bad".

[Dorian Gray]

68. I guess

I conflated the two things in this particular discussion. That was my bad.

[PatSeg]

26. I agree

It makes climate activists look like out-of-control kooks, even silly.

Good point that they might be funded by oil companies. It certainly does make the movement look really bad.

[muriel_volestrangler]

28. But you don't think that putting forward baseless conspiracy theories might make the group

to which *you* belong might make that group look bad?

[mzmolly]

31. Agree!

[MarineCombatEngineer]

43. No, no, no,

the OP had it right, it is dumbfuckery, it doesn't advance the cause in a positive way at all, it just pisses off those that might have been persuaded to join in.

[Dorian Gray]

60. It's "dumbfuckery"

when you calculate that people are annoyed with the attention seeking protestors. Hopefully not their mission to draw attention to the cause.

If I were a Machiavellian CEO of an oil producing company, I may consider hiring people like this to stir up anger against their cause.

[lpbk2713]

2. They're doing their argument more harm than good.

They are nothing more than vandals.

[BlueIdaho]

6. Go out on the street

And ask the first ten people you meet if this sort of stupid stunt makes them more or less likely to join the climate movement. I’m guessing you'll be batting zero for ten.

Not smart, not helpful, and certainly turing people way from the cause.

This is about as unhelpful as “Defund the Police”

[mzmolly]

8. Agree.

Ugh.

[Gaugamela]

3. They aren't harming the actual paintings, and anyway what value will these

paintings have after humanity goes extinct? I think it’s a bold act aimed at a complacent and monied elite that is sleepwalking over the cliff. We need more of this.

[mzmolly]

4. Smells of Right Wing BS.

Ignorance regardless of the agenda.

[muriel_volestrangler]

5. What "ignorance" are you talking about? (nt)

[mzmolly]

7. "Activists glue themselves to Goya paintings ..."

[muriel_volestrangler]

9. I see no lack of knowledge there

They glued themselves to the frames. They are aware of the dangers that going over 1.5 C temperature rise will cause; this has been another (small) way of reminding others.

[mzmolly]

11. The fact that it has to be clarified

is ignorance. The headlines are not going to do so.

[muriel_volestrangler]

13. That doesn't make any sense

"The fact that it has to be clarified is ignorance".

Are you saying that the ignorance is that of the general public? Are you annoyed at the activists for pointing out general ignorance?

[mzmolly]

16. As others have remarked

it's as smart as "defund the police" was.

I'm annoyed that some so called activists don't think about how their 'activism' will be perceived, yes.

[muriel_volestrangler]

18. So, no "ignorance" around, then, just your opinion on how to protest

And you're eager to have their activism perceived badly.

What was it you thought was "right wing BS"?

[mzmolly]

20. Feigned support of a cause with the intention of making

those actually supporting the cause look like fools. For example:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/far-right-boogaloo-ivan-harrison-hunter-admits-posing-as-blm-supporter-during-minneapolis-george-floyd-riot

A member of the far-right Boogaloo Boys had admitted he traveled from Texas to Minneapolis in the wake of George Floyd’s death and purported to be a Black Lives Matter supporter while wreaking havoc on the city.

Feel free to think it's brilliant if you so choose.

[muriel_volestrangler]

21. So this is a conspiracy theory you're putting forward, then?

You are claiming that climate activist groups are in reality evil people trying to make people like you think of climate activism as foolish?

What's your evidence for this conspiracy theory? Anything more than your feelings?

[mzmolly]

24. I said it's ignorant.

I also said it smells of right wing BS. I felt the same about various actions at the Floyd protests.

I have no evidence beyond - I hope that climate activists are smarter than the fools who are gluing themselves to treasured art pieces.

[muriel_volestrangler]

27. Yes, but you've never managed to say what its ignorant *about*

"Ignorance" is a lack of knowledge. What it is that you think they don't know about?

You accuse them of "feigned support of a cause with the intention of making those actually supporting the cause look like fools." This is a group; you are accusing several people of secretly conspiring to mislead the public. But it's good you admit it's a baseless conspiracy theory. I feel I can thus ignore your claim completely.

[mzmolly]

29. "Just Stop Oil activist tries to glue own head to Girl with a Pearl Earring"

More brilliance from the activists whose methods you support.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/oct/27/girl-with-a-pearl-earring-vermeer-just-stop-oil-protest-mauritshuis-the-hague

Great PR for the collective cause!

I didn't present a claim. I presented a theory. Of course there has never been a conspiracy among right wing groups to make us leftists look bad, right?

"White nationalist group posing as antifa called for violence on Twitter"

https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/security/twitter-takes-down-washington-protest-disinformation-bot-behavior-n1221456

[prodigitalson]

10. Did it work?

Did they fix climate change?

[iemanja]

12. They must have

They've done it at least four times already. I'm so relieved that climate change is over.

[mzmolly]

17. Yes

cause for celebration!

[AntivaxHunters]

14. Good

The more awareness the better and some of the replies are absolute cringe.
Climate change is going to fuck every one of us unless we begin taking it seriously.

[ZonkerHarris]

25. Please explain to me how this strrtegy will will over the hearts and minds of the population needed

to address the issue.
Seriously, explain fully how this brings masses of people to the cause.
Use small words, I'm slow.

[AntivaxHunters]

30. The same way it worked to end the Viet Nam war

[ZonkerHarris]

33. hahahahaha You clearly don't know history The Weathermen didn't end the war

[AntivaxHunters]

38. Who said anything about The Waeathermen?

[ZonkerHarris]

35. That is not an explanation by the way

[AntivaxHunters]

39. It is. You simply dislike it

Are you aware of the climate protests currently happening in Europe that our media is NOT even covering?

Millions of people all across the EU.

[Dorian Gray]

63. Those protests

will make a difference.

Throwing tomato soup at a painting won't.

[Dorian Gray]

62. oh boy.

[AntivaxHunters]

46. If it pisses people off

who are more concerned with things being thrown at paintings which won't be harmed, then good.

The climate marches and strikes in Europe are massive and American's are VERY sheltered to an MSM who's very much invested in the fossil fuel industry.

No painting is surviving anything when climate change is burning everything.
Millions upon millions are protesting all across Europe. Ask why you aren't even hearing about it.
The #1 issue among young voters is what? Climate change.

I wish I could laugh at people who don't want the planet to die too.
Such hilarious stuff.

[AntivaxHunters]

50. I sure hope you begin paying attention

None of this is funny.

None of it.
Go read https://grist.org/climate/how-many-people-has-climate-change-killed-already/

[AntivaxHunters]

53. Nice semi truck

[MarineCombatEngineer]

55. Thanks.

I have 2, my female friend drives the other one.

Have a great upcoming week.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

56. Ya know what?

I'm being unfair to you, maybe it will further the cause, maybe it won't, IMO, it won't, but I could be wrong, actually, I hope I'm wrong, wouldn't be the first time, won't be the last time.
Peace out.

[gulliver]

22. This is why we need active condemnation of dumb, self-selected activists

Just put up a "headline response" page on the web or something. The page could be used by authentic climate change concerned organizations such as the DNC. Maybe a table with a link and an icon. Like, for this "gluing yourself to paintings case," the table entry could be a rating (D/C, meaning dumb/crazy) with maybe an icon of a little guy in a dunce cap with little spirals for eyes.

[Initech]

41. I hate to say it, but we really need our own version of Fox.

To counteract all the right wing bullshit out there, but also to stop crap like this, because it really doesn't help our cause at all.

[KatK]

40. Not dumb, not fuckery! Attention-drawing activism. Cuz so few take Climate Change seriously. n/t

[MarineCombatEngineer]

45. Oh yeah, this will certainly further the cause of climate change.

[AntivaxHunters]

48. Because it's not?

Europe isn't the United States and their media is a lot more open in reporting things.

Millions of people are marching all across Europe.

[AntivaxHunters]

51. Ya but are you ok?

[Ron Green]

42. What, you who insist this is dumb, is your suggestion to effect action for the climate

that will get people’s attention? Earth Day was over 52 years ago. What’s your plan?

[thucythucy]

57. How about activists gluing themselves to the entrances

of big oil corporate HQs?

How about blockading stock holder meetings?

Or go after some of the corporate shills who do adverting for Big Oil?

I admit to being frustrated with how pathetic our response has been to climate change, but I doubt this tactic will do anything to help.

It's particularly wrong-headed to be singling out Goya, who used his paintings to document atrocities committed during the Napoleonic wars.

[Ron Green]

58. Big Oil isn't driving the climate change. We consumers are doing that.

Big Oil is very much aware of Anthropogenic Global Warming, but most people aren’t, really. Most people just want to continue the comfort and convenience Big Oil (and some others) have brought us over the years, with the costs offloaded on to poor people around the world, and mostly onto our only home, the earth.

That’s why some activists are doing whatever they can to draw attention to these things.

[muriel_volestrangler]

59. Those actions don't get the publicity

Mon 31st Oct: News Corp, Home Office, Bank of England and MI5 sprayed with paint in Just Stop Oil protest
14th Oct: New Scotland Yard sign covered with yellow paint as protesters target Metropolitan Police HQ
Wed 24th Aug: Just Stop Oil protesters block service stations on M25 in second day of action
Tue 23rd Aug: Just Stop Oil activists stage protests at Essex and Midlands terminals
1st Apr: Just Stop Oil protests: Terminal operations suspended and arrests made
18th Oct: Just Stop Oil protesters removed from Dartford Crossing bridge and arrested
Yesterday: Just Stop Oil: Dozens of activists arrested over M25 protest
So they have protests at roads, oil distribution points, and government offices (because the current thrust of the UK protest is to get the government to stop handing out new oil and gas exploration licences). But these just don't get the worldwide publicity that the museum protests are getting. The road protests have also been criticised for causing traffic jams that then impede emergency vehicles:

Berlin climate protesters condemned after death of cyclist

The death of a cyclist in Berlin has prompted leaders of Germany's Green party to accuse climate change protesters of endangering the lives of others.

The woman was run over and trapped under a concrete mixer lorry on Monday.

The fire service says a specialist rescue vehicle was delayed by traffic because of a climate protest held by a group called "Last Generation".
...
There was a robust response from Robert Habeck, vice-chancellor and a senior figure in the Greens, who are part of the governing coalition government.

"Anyone who risks the health and life of others loses all legitimacy and also harms the climate movement itself," he said. "Some protests by some groups are now doing just that."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-63517102

whereas a museum protest risks nothing.

[Meowmee]

65. Idiots

This is so stupid to say the least. I am wondering how they actually managed to do any of these attacks on masterpieces, it shows that the museums don’t have proper security. They need to do better to prevent this.