Say about Michael Moore what you will...

[orangecrush]

From email "Mike’s Midterm Tsunami Truth #42"



"So, yes, I have been howling these facts out to the wind, and yet I could not find a single commentator on TV or in journalism who would break from the herd and agree with me that the whole stinking media has it all wrong and that the Democrats are going to do better than fine, and that the Republicans are about to have their ass handed to them.

During the six weeks leading up to the election, no newspaper, no magazine, no TV network or armed forces wire service sought either to report on my facts and data about “no red wave is coming” — or do their own reporting to tell the public that a fantasy narrative has been concocted to depress the Democratic vote. I’m on TV a lot. I’m always being asked to come on TV to join the discussion. But not during the midterms. They didn’t want to even consider what I was saying. Other than Bill Maher (who didn’t agree with my analysis but thought I should be heard), Salon, and The Guardian newspaper would let me put forth the possibility that the red wave was in fact a red herring.

Is it the ball cap? The Supercuts haircut? The wardrobe I loaned to John Fetterman?

In the final days before November 8th, three decent, brave non-primetime souls on MSNBC — the longtime pro Alex Witt, the rapper/lawyer Ari Melber and the indefatigable Joy Reid — gave me a voice. Viewers were shocked to hear someone say we on the left were not only going to keep the Senate, we were going to pick up a seat or two. That not only were the Republicans not going to clobber us in the House with 30 to 50 new seats, they might be in for an upset because it’s gonna be so dang close. And Trump’s mob of election-denying candidates were going to go down in flames. There would be record numbers of young voters, and women were on a rampage over the abolishment of Roe. The sword of vengeance would be theirs.

Of all of the above glorious victories we attained on Tuesday, my favorite was this:

In nearly every state, women voters outnumbered the men. And young voters delivered another record turnout — second highest in nearly three decades.

Women and youth made Democrats the real winners."

- Michael Moore



Truthfully, this is exactly what he was saying in these emails the whole time.

But at the same time, painting a picture of the nightmare scenario to expect if we didn't get out the vote.

Say about him what you will.

[malaise]

1. MM is why I had a good feeling on election eve

I love him and trust him. He knows his shit.
Hope he rubs it in all the hacks’ faces.
Rec

[orangecrush]

2. Thank you

And I agree.

[Alexander Of Assyria]

9. I read Moore's analysis of midterms and agreed. Sisters outrage over Roe had faded! blared

the headlines, belched out in harmony with the steno-journos who know what side their toast is buttered.

Had same thought as Moore when read those opinions repeated ad nauseous as fact..what kind of meth are they on to insult sister that way?? She will not forget which politicians want to control their bodies.

[orangecrush]

13. A recent CNN article

Was saying women had "moved on" from overturning Roe.

We see how that worked out.

[Alexander Of Assyria]

15. So don't like to call anyone an idiot, even CNN who said that...that's idiotic and condescending.

Last edited Mon Nov 14, 2022, 11:30 AM - Edit history (1)

Let me guess, the women have moved on…in mere months…silly girls…from invasion od the female only body snatching and won’t vote the bodysnatchers and democracy stealers out??

All male panels??

[orangecrush]

20. It wasn't Moore who said that

It was in an article CNN published.

I was putting it out there as an example of how wrong the media was pre election.

Thanks, I fixed the post to avoid misunderstanding.

[Alexander Of Assyria]

57. Yes, I know, media saying that! Edited.

[orangecrush]

62. Cool!

[Demsrule86]

35. This was what the media posted based on fake/partisan polls. It was rammed down folks throats

And how many threads did I see that assumed that we would lose badly right here? I GOTV and In know from years of experience that this discourages voters.

[calimary]

23. They assumed the electorate, women especially, were as short-sighted and mercenary as they are.

Did we care about some fickle price of a gallon of gasoline more than we cared about who has the final say over OUR BODIES???

Cocky myopic schmucks! How superficial and power-mad is it possible to be? What if it was about control and domination of MEN’S bodies? How about THAT option? Let’s game THAT ONE out.

This is one woman who will NOT be dominated. And this woman is NOT alone. Not by ANY means or definition.

[Demsrule86]

38. Amen Sister!!!! That is exactly how I feel...and even here we were patted on the head and informed

that abortion wasn't THE issue. It was crime and/ or inflation. I called bullshit then and now.

[niyad]

55. Exactly.

[Alexander Of Assyria]

58. Yea, and deeper than that, repetition of a big lie to help republicans!?

[Justice matters.]

78. +1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

ENOUGH with the TOXIC patriarchy schumks!

[niyad]

33. MS magazine's poll of women showed that women, especially younger

women, were motivated BECAUSE of Roe. I poste that one here on Nov. 5. Petty much ignored.

[Demsrule86]

40. Oh no, I am sure the usual suspects read it and sneered at it.

[niyad]

48. Sadly true.

[malaise]

54. YOU WERE RIGHT

[jaxexpat]

59. I recall ignoring it because I thought it went without saying.

Women came out to vote in astatistical numbers because of the USSC crime. The right pushed their "nothing to see here" narrative and it did deter some voters. Their effort to diffuse the anger over the court's unforced error succeeded to the extent that we may lose the House.

But folks, there was another elephant in the room which was never pushed by either party. The main characters in the insurrection have yet to be indicted. American justice is impotent to save itself from itself.

[nightwing1240]

89. I'm male but never thought women got over the overturning of Roe

Not any time soon either as they should not. I dont care what others may think, this is a womens rights issue, period. Equal rights for all that's what I always support and I know I am not alone on that.

[underpants]

28. He certainly seems to have his ear to the ground

I guess it was on Maher’s show that I saw a video of him calling this. That was in September I think.

[mountain grammy]

53. Same here.

He calmed me down.. I knew the polls were crap, but hearing Michael really helped.

[Tommymac]

65. Mr. Moore has made his share of missteps and mistakes, but I still think he is a very smart analyst.

And a great, hard working media producer.

As a political pundit he does think outside the box at times, and goes off on ill advised sub-tangents that make him look silly, which leaves him open to criticism (well deserved at times IMO).

But I have always considered him to be an ally in the fight 'To Form a More Perfect Union'.

Yes, I do disagree with some of his actions and opinions, but overall he has been a positive influence in making the World a less hurtful place to live in.

And in my book, it doesn't get much better then that.

Bravo, Mr. Moore.

[orangecrush]

66. Very well said.

Mirrors my opinion.

[Tommymac]

72. Thanks - much appreciated. nt

[orangecrush]

73. ...

[hlthe2b]

3. I may not have totally believed him, but I watched all three of those appearances

and he certainly had me hopeful. Especially after 538 and RealClearPolitics were decisively called out by the contrarian (but ultimately quite correct) pollster/analyst for including all those internal Republican push polls.

Good on ya, Michael.

[Alexander Of Assyria]

17. RCP is a RW cesspool of poll aggregation that the mainstream media relies on for their info!

538 is following them down the drain. Cook Report messed it up real good also.
Now we might have to do their own research, or have Moore do it for us cause that guys got it going on!

[Demsrule86]

41. RCP takes money from the GOP these days. They are in the tank and can never be trusted.

[Srkdqltr]

4. I was worried about the election until I heard Michael Moore .

He has gone against popular thoughts before and been right.
There are more of us than them. They just yell louder and get more attention.

[Alexander Of Assyria]

19. Did not trust Moore in his 2018 call. Egg on my face! Never again, don't like eggs!

Tho who saw the Comey train coming? Might have got right by fluke or stroke of chance.

[bluesbassman]

5. Yes Moore was right, and it highlights an enormous problem: The Media is being manipulated.

Gaslighting has become so common place that the Media isn’t even bothering to fact check. Whether it due to incompetence, laziness, or complicity, the Media regurgitates the GOP talking points as fact. There are notable exceptions as Moore points, but it’s a small and not widely disseminated group. The almighty “polls” were wrong once again, but were pushed hard and when voices doubted the legitimacy of them, those voices were accused of “only liking the ones that they agreed with”. Saw that many times on this very board.

If the DNC learned anything this cycle, I hope the learned that they need to combat the gaslighting because that is the GOP’s SOP moving forward.

[McKim]

47. Yes, Media Manipulation.....

Yes, it shows media manipulation! The intent was to suppress the Democratic Party votes! But something more was afoot. With the years of media bashing in nearly every venue, and with the overly aggressive bashing by the Republicans, some of us began to behave like battered wives…so we were vulnerable to believing the false narratives. NEVER AGAIN! Remember we are the party of Roosevelt and LBJ who brought great things to the people. We can now focus on using our power and believing in ourselves and our mission.

[ancianita]

49. That's close. But elected Republicans don't own media. Just their owners. We're also fighting

against those who own and spread the Republican script. Not saying you meant that, but it's easy to give more power to elected Republicans than they merit when they appear as part of right wing message campaigns.

Twitter is owned by a Republican.
Fox News is owned by a Republican.
CNN is owned by a Republican.
OANN is owned by a Republican.
Parler is owned by a Republican.
Newsmax is owned by a Republican.
Daily Wire is owned by a Republican.
MSM present 'news' as neutral when they're actually center right.

The “liberal media” is a Republican myth. Media owners drive that myth.

Media owners drive the lie that Democrats have a messaging problem.

Democrats only have a cockblocking Republican owned media problem. Sure, elected Republicans benefit, but they don't produce, just reflect, the owners' framing of narratives.

[bluesbassman]

61. Yes, and that's the complicity aspect.

What OUR elected officials need to do do is forget about being perceived as “whiners” and have a scripted response to the gaslighting and lies. Go on the offensive, and when some media talking head spouts GOP lies call them on it. Our “policy ideas” are fine things to talk about, but the choir already knows those tunes. It’s the Independents and moderate Republicans that need to hear that we know how to fight and be reminded that the GOP is flat lying to them.

[ancianita]

84. It's also the right wing conspiratorial aspect.

I hear you about what independents and moderates need to hear, though I think our actions are getting through to them, as well.

[calimary]

82. Makes me suspect 538 and RCP are also owned by Republicans.

Add in all those media outlets owned by Republicans and what you get is a colossal clusterfuck.

[ancianita]

83. Yeah, we need to find that out.

Yep, a clusterfuck. And to top that off, all that flooding of the campaign zone with junk sampling polls that further bamboozle the public's innumeracy that darkens the validity and reliability of media itself.

They're either too stupid to be accurate, or they're too contemptuous of average Americans' common sense about them.

For the right, these media are their idea of smart.

[katmondoo]

6. Thanks to the our wonderful young people and to the women who keep fighting against the odds.

[Tetrachloride]

7. I appreciate the wins in every location.

I don’t appreciate the loss of the Senate race in Wisconsin.

The reasons are several.

[UTUSN]

8. I kept my doom/gloom & doubt of MM's prediction to myself, but apologize to MM here.

[orangecrush]

14. I was frightened

As well.

You weren't alone.

[MiHale]

10. 2 elections he nailed...

I like Moore, don’t have to agree all the time…maybe it is the ball cap lotsa times there’s a old English D on it. Thought he was wrong with the trump call but…

[orangecrush]

16. I like him

Because I can relate to where he comes from.

I am one of the blue collar that Reagan threw overboard in the 80's.

[ChazInAz]

44. Sometimes he annoys the hell out of me.

When that happens, he's speaking uncomfortable truths that I need to pay attention to. He's usually right.

[orangecrush]

98. I hear you

And that's often true in life..

[McKim]

50. I Can Relate Too!!!!

I can relate too. My parents never finished high school. They were part of the greatest generation. Michael Moore knows how to communicate with we regular folks and Joe the Plumber and we can all take a lesson from him!

[orangecrush]

64. I was a steelworker

USWA, and watched Reagan destroy Pittsburgh.

He started with the Air Traffic Controllers, and then removed tariffs on Japanese steel.

[Escurumbele]

11. I like Michael Moore, always have...That is what I have to say about him.

[Blues Heron]

12. Michael Moore is a national treasure

[sop]

18. "The rapper/lawyer Ari Melber" had Moore back on his show right after the election,

so he could apologize and allow Moore to gloat a bit.

[orangecrush]

21. Cool

Wish I had seen that bit of schadenfreude.

[sop]

26. Here:

[orangecrush]

30. Thanks!

[uponit7771]

31. +1,

[Farmer-Rick]

22. The whole purpose of the filthy rich manipulating the media

Was to depress the Democratic vote.

And it was depressed. Yeah, a lot of people came out to vote but only about 30 to 50 percent of all possible voters even bothered to vote.

So they will continue to use this tactic. Seems Nate Silver bought into their trap and 95% of the corporate media had accepted the red wave as a fact when the data was so obviously manipulated.

I'm just a farmer and I could see that polls with 10% margins of error were wrong. Why didn't Nate see it? I could see that polls having the GOP winning by 3% that had a 4% margin of error were bad. But why didn't MSNBC or Nate point this out?

Because what Nate and the filthy rich really wanted was to ensure 50 to 70% of the voters stayed home and didn't even get a ballot delivered. So, their tactic worked.

[orangecrush]

24. Excellent points.

Time to break up some media monopolies?

[FoxNewsSucks]

25. should have been done long ago

And look what happened to Howard Dean when he said so on TV

[orangecrush]

32. They don't like

Independent news outlets.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

109. The billionaires in the background are our real opponents. GOP are tools for them.

[delisen]

27. Michael Moore was informed by watching Michigan women

Michigan citizens were the Doers. Those who knew and observed the mood and the resolve in Michigan and also had a national view could best figure the outcome.

[orangecrush]

37. Exactly.

I am very glad women were heard.

[Demsrule86]

29. I thought the midterms were going to go quite well and that the fake GOP polls were well fake.

I looked at the internals of the ones that provided them and they were BS-the margin of error was ridiculous and their sample size and who they selected to 'poll' was completely off. And yet right here, we had Duer's and others in multiple places talking about the red wave and basically refusing to consider the alternative. And I think this caused real damage.

How many folks in California and New York stayed home? Their abortion laws are still reasonable. We might have gotten the House without the constant insistence of a red wave based on polls that were known to be partisan by everyone.

[intrepidity]

34. I was looking for MM prior to election and finally found him on Ari's show

After hearing him, I calmed down about the election and mostly stopped paying attention until after Wednesday.

KnR

[orangecrush]

42. Quite often

When he has gone against "conventional wisdom", he turned out to be right..

[niyad]

36. Exactly.

[halfulglas]

39. In the last weeks every time I thought by BP was going to spike out of control

I thought of Michael Moore's prediction. Just because I didn't talk about abortion every day didn't mean I had forgotten. And I was pretty sure other women and like minded men. A few more dollars spent at the grocery store or gas pump did not trump rights being tromped on (and the threats to more). I am also so proud of the youth that are stepping up to take their place as citizens and having their votes heard as well as their voices.

[orangecrush]

43. Same here

I was expecting the worst, and at the same time hoping MM was right.

[DownriverDem]

45. Got his emails

He stayed firm in his predictions. Folks need to understand about Michigan if they want to repeat it where they live. In 2018 we passed a voters rights bill that included same day registration and voting. College kids lined up to vote big time. So did women who didn't want to be told what to do. We did it with a petition drive. The abortion rights proposal was through a petition drive too. Also we voted for more voting rights last Tuesday - 9 days of early voting, more drop off boxes for absentee/mail in & military votes should be counted if the post mark is for election day. Also through a proposal on the ballot in 2018, our district lines were drawn by a citizen committee. Michigan is ready to fight them all the way.

[orangecrush]

63. Bravo!

Sounds like an excellent blueprint/battle plan to me!

[VWolf]

46. "The wardrobe I loaned to John Fetterman?"

Ok, that made me laugh

[orangecrush]

67. Same here

Cause I dress like that!

[multigraincracker]

51. Yabadabado, He's a Flintstone.

Built in a Michigan factory town.

[orangecrush]

68. Does this ring a (ship) bell?

Last edited Mon Nov 14, 2022, 12:54 PM - Edit history (1)

Straight outta Flint, MI

[lefthandedskyhook]

52. He had me at "Roger and Me"

He remains both honest and insightful. He could have been wrong but he was not... yet again!

[orangecrush]

69. Fahrenheit 911

The state cops were at the movie theatre parked outside for security when it played.

[lefthandedskyhook]

76. Bowling for Columbine

A must see account

[orangecrush]

87. Yup

[BornADemocrat]

56. Gotta give him his due!

He called it.

[orangecrush]

70. Agree 100%.

It was uncanny.

[Prairie_Seagull]

60. Was luke warm on MM in the past, now he gets my vote and my eyes.

Last edited Mon Nov 14, 2022, 12:17 PM - Edit history (1)

Don't know why but he finds the pulse of our country a lot. Mea Culpa Michael Moore.

[orangecrush]

71. You and me both.

[crud]

74. I saw Cornell Belcher on an MSNBC appearance

And he mentioned all of the junk Rep pols that were coming out, and that he thought they were trying to "play" the aggregated pols. He wasn't trusting them either. He wasn't as forthright with a prediction like Moore, but he was on to something too.

[orangecrush]

75. They were definitely

Trying desperately to ram a republican pipe dream down our throats.

[elleng]

77. I always said he's one of the smartest and wisest.

[orangecrush]

79. And fearless

If you've seen his movies.

In Fahrenheit 911, he was nearly arrested for filming the Saudi consulate.

[elleng]

80. Yes, fearless.

(Had to edit my post, obviously too early for me to write rationally!!!)

[orangecrush]

85. I can relate!

[tiredtoo]

81. Been a supporter of him forever

My support for Maher is dropping but Moore support remains firm.

[orangecrush]

86. Blue collar guy

Who never forgot where he came from.

[Hekate]

88. Nice shout-out to MSNBC's Alex Witt, Ari Melber, & Joy Reid...

In the final days before November 8th, three decent, brave non-primetime souls on MSNBC — the longtime pro Alex Witt, the rapper/lawyer Ari Melber and the indefatigable Joy Reid — gave me a voice.

[orangecrush]

94. I thought that was pure class

To recognize the courage of these people.

[orangecrush]

96. I understand completely what you mean

The right wing noise machine has moved the goalposts so far, that today Nixon would be considered a leftist.

It is an effort to normalize fascism.

Moore (and myself) come from a different time, when the left were actually considered to good guys, before Gingrich came up with his talking points.

From Gingrich-

"Apply these to the opponent, their record, proposals and their party.
abuse of power
anti- (issue): flag, family, child, jobs
betray
bizarre
bosses
bureaucracy
cheat
coercion
“compassion” is not enough
collapse(ing)
consequences
corrupt
corruption
criminal rights
crisis
cynicism
decay
deeper
destroy
destructive
devour
disgrace
endanger
excuses
failure (fail)
greed
hypocrisy
ideological
impose
incompetent
insecure
insensitive
intolerant
liberal
lie
limit(s)
machine
mandate(s)
obsolete
pathetic
patronage
permissive attitude
pessimistic
punish (poor …)
radical
red tape
self-serving
selfish
sensationalists
shallow
shame
sick
spend(ing)
stagnation
status quo
steal
taxes
they/them
threaten
traitors
unionized
urgent (cy)
waste
welfare”

https://themoderatevoice.com/newt-gingrich-and-his-list-of-words/



The goal was to reframe the narrative and to polarize American politics.

"Liberal", or God forbid, "Leftist", became dirty words.

I hope to see "MAGAT" become the new term of derision.

[LiberalLovinLug]

91. Moore has always been one of the good guys

Who has spent his career exposing corruption, and shining a light on societal and industrial problems.

Which is why the right have led a non stop visible, and non visible attack on him and his character. And it works.....on the deluded who vote Republican, but it also works on a segment of Democratic voters. I am positive there are paid trolls working against Moore on left wing sites, or were when he was more in the news, that go on about him not being "moderate" enough, or for not falling in line with Democratic leadership. Some have never forgiven him for backing Sanders in the primaries he ran in. Of course as soon as Hillary, and Biden won their respective nominations, he went out and held rallies for them, and get out the vote movements. But that is overlooked.

He can be abrasive, he can be in ineloquent, he doesn't dress up.......so what?. He's usually right with uncomfortable truths. And I find it sad how Democrats leap to conclusions that are put in place by right wing concern trolls.

[Paladin]

92. I'm no great fan of Michael Moore...

...but my compliments to him for the "rapper/lawyer Ari Melber" comment. Melber deserves that one.

[BigmanPigman]

93. When he went out on a limb with his predictions I was relieved since

it was the same prediction I made but wasn't hearing on any of the cable news media. I was not alone and that was comforting.

[orangecrush]

95. Now we know for sure

We are in great company!

[love_katz]

97. I love Michael Moore.

Thank you for this thread. Extra special thanks for the interview of MM on Ari Melber. The corporate owners of the mainstream McGreedia were pushing the R's agenda. The suits make the decisions about what the content of a broadcast will be. It suits there wallets. They keep their tax cuts and everyone else be damned. A reporter named Brian Kemp has written a book called, Free The Press. It is on my must read list. He explains why the media are so awful. Follow the money, folks, just like during Watergate. Reagan killing the Fairness Doctrine, and the 24/7 news cycle helped shift the media corps from digging for facts to seeking money at all costs. Consolidation of media corporations, lower pay for reporters has resulted in a pool of reporters who don't have the knowledge or experience to do their job with skill and expertise. As someone else said, if your salary depends on not reporting something, then you just won't. I turned away from the McGreedia a long time ago. It isn't in their interest to report what I need to know. The problem is, that democracy dies without a free press. On edit:. it's Brian Karem, not Kemp.

[orangecrush]

99. For a brief, shining moment

We really took the battle to right wing talk radio.

No wonder they went after him so hard and dirty.

[Skittles]

100. excellent analysis, love_katz

yes INDEED

[Skittles]

101. "Women and youth made Democrats the real winners."

PREACH IT, BROTHER

[orangecrush]

104. Thanks, Skittles!

[WA-03 Democrat]

102. I'm have a coin to flip

Seems th the same

[pansypoo53219]

103. may have helped getting votes considering 2016's hillary is gonna win.

[orangecrush]

105. He was right

On the money this time.

[zomgitsjesus]

106. MM has been right many times

The man has his ear to the people. Just like he saw the trump cesswave, he saw the counter blue wave..

[orangecrush]

112. More right

Than wrong, iirc

[FrankTC]

107. Our Riposte to Steve Bannon?

Both excoriate the dominant ideology in casual attire (though for Bannon it’s more like seedy/scruffy chic, whereas Moore be more like It’s-Just-Me-I’m-Not-Pretending). Whatever the sartorial similarities, the values gulf is immense. Michael is about pointing out the possibilities for a better, more humane, more egalitarian future, whereas Bannon is about, well, it’s hard to say — confusion, nihilism, hopelessness, autocracy, me-firstism, and white male supremacy. Congratulations to Michael, and thanks.

[orangecrush]

113. Extremely well put

Thank you!

[augyboston]

108. Michael Moore kept me from drowning in the negativity of the MSM

I too was saved by Mike's frequent emails telling me that the MSM had it all wrong and that there would be no Red Wave.

I thought to myself, he was the lone voice speaking against the wind in 2016, so why couldn't he be right again!?!

MM had it right again and the MSM with its never-ending thirst for ratings was as wrong as wrong can be. Polls and corporate-owned news outlets now have zero credibility with me!

[orangecrush]

114. Same here

He was a lifesaver.

[betsuni]

110. There was no "blue tsunami" that kept Democrats in control of Congress.

A tsunami would be a landslide. It wasn't.

[demmiblue]

111. Your concern is noted. n/t

[PufPuf23]

115. "Women and youth made Democrats the real winners." - Michael Moore

Michael Moore is a good man and usually manages to point out obvious and uncomfortable truth.

No one should be expected to be perfect.

Fortunate that Moore is on our side. I am glad anyway.

[orangecrush]

116. I am too.

He has put himself out there for us, and gets my respect.

Thanks for your post, PufPuf23!