Ok would you people PLEASE get your election shit together

[TrogL]

I know I post this every two years, but still...

I'm a former employee of Elections Canada. I've worked for Federal and Provincial campaigns is a variety of positions. I'm best known as "the guy with the truck" for lugging huge campaign signs around. I'm also active at the polls.

Canada doesn't have mail in or online voting. It does have convenient early voting. There's lots of polls, they're in driving distance and on major bus routes and if you need a ride you can phone the campaign office and somebody will take you.

There's a great long list of acceptable ID including dragging your neighbour in to swear you in. Hence, ballots are pre-sorted. Unless you spoil your ballot, if it's in the box, it's valid.

On election day, the head pool person drives over and picks up a kit for each polling station. It easily fits in the trunk of a car. There are signs, cardboard ballot boxes, cardboard voting shields, bags, sticky tape and folders of valid voters. As a voter comes in they are checked off the list (as above there are ways of dealing with exceptions), given a cute little paper ballot, they vote behind one of the little cardboard partitions then put it in the ballot box.

End of the night, the boxes are opened and counted in front of scrutineers from each Party (assuming they show up), results are totted up, phoned into the central office (scrutineers phone their campaign offices), everything gets sealed in sticky tape, boxed up and returned to central office and everybody's home by 11 pm to watch the results on yhe news.

It's coming up on a week and you STILL dont have results for House OR Senate???!!!??

[RockRaven]

1. I want the fewest barriers to voting, and to have as many legal votes counted as possible.

Vote by mail is more open access than in person voting. My version of "getting our shit together" would be universal/default voter registration of all eligible persons, and universal/automatic vote by mail (no requesting absentee ballots or such).

I don't care if it takes two weeks for final results. The term doesn't start until January.

[JohnSJ]

2. Exactly. California should be the example for every state to follow. All registered voters are

sent a postage paid mail-in ballot. As long as the ballot is postmarked on or before election day, they have up to seven days to receive the ballot to be counted.

Checks are then done to insure no duplications, and the signatures match. Any issues, the voter is attempted to be contacted to be given the opportunity to correct those issues.

Provisional ballots are also processed.

California goes out of their way to insure that all legitimate votes are counted

[TrogL]

4. Ok, therein lies thr difference

Canada runs under the Westminster Parliamentary System. That means the government can fall literally at the drop of a hat and everything comes to a crashing halt until the results of a snap election.

[msfiddlestix]

32. I really wish we had snap elections, that would mitigate a demented psychopath traitor of President

fairly quickly without the insane process of impeachment. then let the DOJ do the prosecuting.

[Justice matters.]

3. As long as all the valid ballots are counted properly, it doesn't matter if it takes

a week or a month. The "newly" elected Congress only gets going after New Years Day.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

14. Again, American exceptionalism. Somehow Brazil, UK, and Canada get new govts running in a few days

Lame duck Congresses are a good thing?
Lame duck Administrations are a good thing?

Nah. Not in the 21st century. Unless you go to DC by horse and buggy.

[Justice matters.]

36. In Canada, the parliament is "suspended" some 40 days before the vote and...

it is not resuming for a month after the vote with a new Cabinet.

At least a lame duck Congress could raise the debt ceiling so maybe a new Fascist House could not destroy the credit score of the country, and that would not be a bad thing.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

39. Lame ducks can work the other way too, against Democrats. But re Canada, not quite like you say

I have not found a reference to "40 days". Elections can be called any time and must have at least 36 days for campaigns (typically not much more than that) and Parliament is dissolved during that time. In the US, there is little or no legislative activity during a similar period leading up to the vote in November.

Nor have I found a reference to "not resuming for a month". A new cabinet can be formed any time and Parliament can proceed. There is no lame duck period. One Parliament is dissolved and about six weeks later a new one comes into being. No lame duck in between.

https://www.ourcommons.ca/procedure/our-procedure/ParliamentaryCycle/c_g_parliamentarycycle-e.html

Opening of a Parliament or Session
The opening of a Parliament follows a general election. It is also the opening of the first session of that Parliament. Two procedures—the swearing-in of members and the election of the Speaker—distinguish it from the opening of subsequent sessions. Each session is opened by a new Speech from the Throne, read in the Senate by the Governor General (or the Sovereign).

In the case of the 44th Parliament (2021), there was a period of about two months after the election, but I haven't found anything mandating a time period.

The 44th Canadian Parliament is the session of the Parliament of Canada which began on 22 November 2021, with the membership of its Lower House, the House of Commons of Canada, having been determined by the results of the 2021 federal election held on 20 September 2021. Parliament officially resumed on 22 November 2021

[msongs]

5. your voting laws are not at least in part written by those who'd like see slavery return nt

[ZZenith]

6. We have ten times the number of people

and many states allow votes that arrive in the mail as late as seven days after the election.

Does that help you understand? I agree in principle and happen to live in a state that makes voting VERY convenient and quickly tabulated, but we are fifty different governments, all with different rules.

[elleng]

7. 50 states, ###### voting jurisdictions

[MerryBlooms]

8. We're not Canada. We have about 10 times your population.

Our counts will be done when they're done. End of discussion. Step down.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

12. It seems you have little interest in learning how to do better. "End of discussion"? Really?

America uber alles?

[BlackSkimmer]

38. Lol, thank you.

Pretty sure this is a DISCUSSION board.

What’s funny is just a little while ago the board was filled with posters claiming they couldn’t wait to leave the US. There are constant complaints about our election problems. Canada is often mentioned as a desirable destination.

Then the OP makes a simple statement, and people are all up in arms. It really is hard to keep up around here lol.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

13. You are not Brazil either. It has same population as US roughly and is done in one day

Your excuse blew up.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

17. That means there are 10 times more people able to count and observe.

Sorry, but I don't believe you thought that argument through.

[AntivaxHunters]

19. We should be MORE like Canada

Lose the nationalism

[BlackSkimmer]

24. "Step down".

What’s next? Let’s take it outside?

Tough talk on the internet always amuses me.

[love_katz]

9. I love voting by mail.

I know that I do a better job of research both candidates and measures when I can vote in the comfort of my own home. And, I can sign up for ballot tracking. I get texts when my ballot and voters pamphlet are being mailed out to me. I get texts that let me know that my ballot was received and accepted, and tallied The slight inconvenience of waiting to know the final results is worth it to me. I wish all 50 states had vote by mail. It would cut down on opportunities for MAGATS to intimidate people who are just trying to vote. In my state, the ballot tracking system gives the voter a chance to correct the situation if their ballot is rejected, and it gives people a chance to get another ballot if theirs doesn't arrive on time.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

11. US has world's most complicated health system, most complicated elections, and tax system

American exceptionalism.

But, they are not the world's most effective health system (unless you are rich since it costs double per capita), or the most democratic elections, or the cleanest tax system.

[hunter]

25. Wealthy U.S. Americans get overly expensive, inappropriate, and potentially deadly health care too.

Unlike elections and the tax code their money doesn't protect them from our profit-driven health care system. We've got plenty of prematurely dead celebrities and billionaires to show for it.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

15. In defense of Americans, their ballots are much longer and may have referendums, etc. . . . nt

[Hermit-The-Prog]

16. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

There's no excuse for this bullshit, except Republicans insist on choosing their voters instead of voters choosing their representatives.

We still have an irrational, idiotic dependency on electronics for counting, even though voters can't see electrons flitting around in wires and chips. Someday we may grow up and figure out that people should count votes while other people are watching.

[Kaleva]

18. Are people complaining about something that really isn't an issue?

Other then folks wanting instant results, what difference does it make that we have to wait a week or more to know the outcome of a few races?

[brooklynite]

20. How many races do you vote for at a time?

A lot of people don't realize how complex the US ballots are. In NYS we had Senator, House, Governor, Attorney General, State Controller, State Senate, State Assembly, some judicial races and four referenda. California is far worse. You'll never be done by 11 PM.

[LiberalFighter]

22. The USA does not have just one type of voting.

There is early in-person voting. There is early voting by mail. There is voting on election day on machines. There is voting on election day on paper.

There are 50 states and 3,243 counties or equivalent counties. And many, many, many polling locations. Each state has different election laws pertaining to voting and counting the results.

Voting machines are likely the easiest to compile the results when they have both the cartridge and the printout. The election headquarters can enter the results when they receive them from the polling locations. But elections consist of more than one elected office on the ballot. At my polling location there were 8 voting machines and on my ballot there were 24 positions. There are 278 precincts with a total of just over 236,000 registered voters in my county. Votes for each office are tabulated by precinct.

Those voting by mail or in person on a paper ballot take more work as they are not counted immediately. Some states allow mail ballots to be counted before election day or during the election day before the polls close. Other states require them to be counted after.

There is a process that needs to be followed when counting the results from paper ballots. They need to first confirm that the ballot is from a registered voter that has not already voted. Then remove the secrecy envelope containing their ballot from the mail envelope and separate.

After they have been confirmed they are run through counting machines. In some cases they need to be tabulated by people and that would take even longer when there are multiple offices on each ballot.

[hunter]

29. Anything other than hand marked paper ballots is bullshit with great potential for abuse.

With adequate safeguards electronic tabulating is acceptable.

I'm pretty satisfied with California's system, unwieldy as it is. Democracy is a messy business.

I also think there's too much on the ballot -- work that our elected officials should be doing themselves.

Timid "let the voters decide" legislators, and huge corporations that hire armies of paid signature collectors for their petitions, complicate our ballots. We have to vote for too many issues and for too many offices that would be better handled by boring non-partisan bureaucracies.

[LiberalFighter]

30. I agree with the petitions and issues.

But then again, Kansas had a ballot measure regarding abortions. If it had been left up to the state legislators it would not have happened.

[grantcart]

23. You post it every 2 years but Canada only has important federal elections every 4 years.

The US has 50 State constitutions with much more self government than Canadian provinces.

Many things in Canada politics is to be envied (lack of lobbying and dark money) but your lecturing on tabulating returns is not one of them.

You fail to understand that the actual final day of receiving votes differs radically among the 50 different governments depending on rules on how the mail vote is handled and we have one State that has more population than your entire country.

You know who has faster election counting? Denmark and Singapore, but who gives a fuck.

The US has the most complex and most frequent voting of any major democracy and the most written constitutions and courts (51) to adjudicate the rules.

Speed is the least important variable. Getting the most people involved and having the least amount of fraud are the only things that should be of concern to any thoughtful observer.

It is unfortunate that one of the US 's most unfortunate habits: unwelcomed, uninformed, patronizing, lecturing has taken root in Canada. Of the many problems in the US political system the time it takes to tabulate the vote is the most irrelevant. It's taken a week and virtually all the most important questions have been settled, peacefully, without fraud or violence. Georgia is having a run off because that is what their constitution and court state is the law.

As a non Georgian I don't consider it my place to meddle where my opinion is not welcome, not informed about why they chose this method and it's none of my business.

I wish you would get your shit together and delete this thread.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

26. Well, then, if you have so much electioneering, perhaps you can "get your shit together" as you advi

If you have so much, you've had so many opportunities to figure it out and get it straightened out and optimized.

You've had more years, and many more elections. Lots of practice. Lots of experiments to see what works and what doesn't. So many more people and brains to figure it all out.

And you've come up with this election system? Electoral College and all?

[inthewind21]

27. It's

called a constitution. It's in our founding documents. Perhaps a little more studying instead of complaining would be well advised. If your displeased with the process here, you're always free to go somewhere that suites you better.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

28. I know it's the Constitution for the Electoral College & lame ducks. It COULD be fixed but isn't

"suits" not "suites". Generally the Constitution is capitalized.

Now if you studied the history, taking your own advice, you'd know that the Constitution is not a founding document, but the Declaration of Independence is. The Constitution came along years AFTER the founding of the US.

I'm Canadian. I lived in California for decades. It suited me, but not because of the election system. Nor did the election system drive me away.

But you thought you were talking to an American. Thus it is evident that your solution to problems is to try to force anyone who points it out to "Love it or Leave it". That attitude is part of why US elections are the mess they are.

[LiberalFighter]

31. It is not that easy to fix.

Not when you have members of Congress that would block it.

The alternative method would be worse if it was a convention of states. They would destroy the country.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

35. Agree on all four sentences. . . . nt

[LiberalFighter]

33. We tried getting our shit together. The problem is with Republicans blocking those efforts.

And court sided with them on Citizens United.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

34. Yes, those are problems. . . . nt

[grantcart]

40. The reality is that the US is not a homogeneous population

united into a single Republic, it is an entire continent equivalent land mass that incorporates 50 written constitutions and 50 Courts into a federated constitution with an additional court.

The equivalent comparison would be with the European Union or ASEAN, or all S America or either half of Africa.

In order to achieve that, which no other largely populated geographically dispersed state has achieved for a single century let alone starting on our third.

The answer requires a union of highly autonomous jurisdictions (states) that give people local control while being held accountable to a federal constitution which establishes basic principles.

Also given that we have elections at a much higher frequency than any other democracy it means that differing populations have different preferences how to do that. Some want all mail in ballots some want a mix.

I fall to see why any of that should be the least bit objectionable to any one if it creates more avenues for more people to vote.

The "get your shit together" isn't my words but using the OPs offensive phrase on him because he is advocating imposing a single system of non mail in person voting on a country of 330 million.

I could suggest that if Canada added mail more rural and native voters could participate but I don't because a) I have no idea if that is true b) it is none of my business.

The issue of the electoral college has nothing to do with the patronizing and rather uniformed dribble of the OP.. The electoral college was the compromise necessary to obtain small states to agree to a more centralized federal government after the failure of the Articles of Federation.

There are many more objections to his suggestion of no mail in voting not the least of which is the disenfranchisement of millions of US military that are not resident in their voting jurisdiction, 3 million citizens living overseas (but unlike other countries still obligated to pay taxes) millions that are traveling. I would also add the informed but I assume that Canada has a mechanism for that.

All of this complaint from the OP for what reason? It takes a week to get complete results. What is the fucking rush? It's more important to get more people involved in a transparent process than to have it done by some artificial deadline.

And by the way the OPs final sentence is patently false

It's coming up on a week . . . don't have results for House OR Senate?

We have 99% of the results in. Anybody in the world who loves Democracy should be rejoicing on the results of this election, it's rejection of election deniers, it's reversal of traditional off year trends, the non violence, increased youth and minority participation and it's rejection of America firsterism. Complaining about how long it takes to get such results is pretty small grapes.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

42. Thank you for your reasoned & well written post. I'll say neither are Canada or Brazil "homogenous"

I agree that though fast results are desirable they are not necessary, especially given the long period of time after the election until the new Congress meets.

And good catch about 99% being "don't have results" is a ridiculously blatant example of binary all-or-nothing thinking, pitting the perfect as the enemy of the good.

[jcgoldie]

37. Why the fuck does it matter how long they take to count votes as long as...

1.) Everyone who wants to vote has the opportunity without restrictions.
2.) They get the count right.

Let the right wing conspiracists bitch about how long it takes to count them, we are supposed to be in favor of providing the widest net possible to expand the electorate and making it as easy as possible to vote.

[grantcart]

41. It doesn't but some people can't simply rejoice that we

Had a widely attended election without violence or fraud that returned the US to a rational path.