General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsI don't think starting WW lll over an errant missile is prudent.
Carry on...
jimfields33
(15,948 posts)Hopefully theyll just think hard about it before taking any action. Theres ways to defend some thing without going too far.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,711 posts)Back in the day the Israelis shot down two Russian fighter planes in dogfights. Russia didn't attack them.
GenXer47
(1,204 posts)may feel differently, maybe not WWIII but some sort of retaliation. If Poland bombs the missile launchers, fair and square, then it's Putin who must choose to start WWIII, or not. And he can carry on.
ck4829
(35,090 posts)That "errant missile" was one of scores fired at Ukrainian civilians and infrastructure, Russia was firing missiles blindly and recklessly like out of a cartoon and innocent people outside of the conflict were killed because of it.
WW III? No. Consequences? Yes.
uponit7771
(90,363 posts)Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Original post)
Post removed
tritsofme
(17,399 posts)This isnt Monday Night Football, folks.
Mad_Machine76
(24,437 posts)and I'm glad the grown-ups are in charge.
sarisataka
(18,769 posts)What's the worst that can happen? You're not afraid of a few rads, are you?
I find it strange to realize I can remember when DU was against war.
And before anyone starts talking about WW2, consider WW1. The death of one man began a war that killed up to 22 million people. Also it directly set events in motion that led to WW2.
What if the European countries didn't react to the assassination of Archduke Ferdinand with declarations of war?
Gore1FL
(21,151 posts)WW II started with the Japanese invasion of China.
sarisataka
(18,769 posts)FrankTC
(210 posts)Id want to know where is our missile defense system. There should be an Iron-Dome-like system defending not just the cities but also the towns and villages and countryside. If it happens to overreact and knock down Russian missiles headed toward Ukraine, oh well, fog of war, etc. Why isnt this already under construction? Surely the Poles remember life under the Soviets.
BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)Seem to remember something.
FrankTC
(210 posts)Reagan proposed a defense against ICBMs. And maybe were working on it. As fas as I know, progress has been slow (or nonexistent). On the other hand, Israels Iron Dome system seems pretty effective (not 100%) against shorter range missiles that dont go way high (i.e., arent ballistic intercontinental types). At least thats what I read in the layman press.
Wounded Bear
(58,704 posts)before we start launching back at Russia.
Irish_Dem
(47,375 posts)If Russia had not invaded Ukraine, there would be no missiles flying anywhere.
uponit7771
(90,363 posts)Wounded Bear
(58,704 posts)Irish_Dem
(47,375 posts)If Europe wants a war raging next door and killing their own citizens, that is their choice.
Happy Hoosier
(7,386 posts)No one is gonna launch major attacks on Russia. OTOH, more aggressive air defense is certainly called for. Tell the Russians they blew it and now any of their shit that flies in Western Ukraine gets blowed up.
BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)100%.
Scrivener7
(51,002 posts)Model35mech
(1,552 posts)That there was an explosion is not in doubt.
But what exploded?
Grain dust can be explosive.
uponit7771
(90,363 posts)Happy Hoosier
(7,386 posts)I think the most likely outcome is more air defense assistance. Id personally like to see NATO air defense units right on the border and declare they will engage any Russian target within an exclusion zone in the west of Ukraine.
Just A Box Of Rain
(5,104 posts)DemocraticPatriot
(4,392 posts)MarineCombatEngineer
(12,429 posts)Irish_Dem
(47,375 posts)As this war continues that possibility increases.
Europe can help Ukraine more and stop the war quicker.
Or let their citizens be killed.
Their choice.
Xolodno
(6,398 posts)Zelensky is making the claim. Poland and NATO have yet to confirm if was Russian, Ukrainian, a dust explosion, etc. On top of that, if it is a missile or rocket, most likely errant.
Plus a NATO nation has fired on and brought down a Russian bomber during the Syrian civil war. And Russia expressed outrage but didn't retaliate. This is not worth killing millions on three continents for.
Happy Hoosier
(7,386 posts)Some suggestion that some remains of an S-300 missile found at the site. If so, its likely an errant defensive missile. The Russians have used S-300 for land attack, but I dont think they have that kind of range.
Sancho
(9,070 posts)Chuuku Davis
(565 posts)Otherwise known as a Kaliber.
Fired from a strategic bomber.
They have a 1000 lb warhead which is why they blow those big assed craters.
Sancho
(9,070 posts)...as a moderate response.
ruet
(10,039 posts)If, however, it wasn't it cannot be allowed to go unanswered. NATO will have a pretty good idea of what actually transpired within 24 hours.
Chuuku Davis
(565 posts)Or sooner.
Zeitghost
(3,868 posts)Who knew there were so many hawks on the left. Another paradigm shift brought to us by Trump who's Russia/Putin connections fuel most of this.
The most important thing in keeping human civilization alive is that Russia and the US do not engage in a direct shooting war. And so many seem to be itching to do just that.
NewsCenter28
(1,835 posts)We know Putin is Trump's campaign manager. Putin probably did this to coincide with Trump's announcement to try to bait President Biden into doing something that, at the very least, would tip the global economy into recession, and help out his servant's campaign. The best thing for President Biden to do here is NOT take the bait, and turn the other cheek. It is so transparently a Trump-Putin ploy.
I would hope that nothing happens but a diplomatic statement of condemnation from this. Also, Putin would never invade/attack a member of NATO.
Calculating
(2,957 posts)..
DemocraticPatriot
(4,392 posts)All you posters screaming for instant retaliation against Russia earlier today (even though the errant munitions might not have come from Russia), I'm just wondering...
What was your position on our attacks on Iraq in early 2003-- the beginning of the Iraq war?
Were you waving the flags for Bush Jr.'s attacks?
If you were, than it all makes perfect sense-- except for the fact that there was little risk of global nuclear conflict from our actions at the time...
But you still need to take a goddamn pill, or have a few drinks-- first thing in the morning, since those of you who are old are now obviously asleep, and those of you who are young are out running somewhere else, doing what you do..
USALiberal
(10,877 posts)DemocratSinceBirth
(99,711 posts)Do you or do you not find your post incongruous in light of the fact that every other poster in this thread was able to divine what I was alluding to? Thank you in advance
USALiberal
(10,877 posts)Over 900 people read your post, about 50 replied. I assume a lot of them had no idea what your initial post was. All you had to do is put a paragraph in covering what the post was about.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,711 posts)USALiberal
(10,877 posts)Errant Ukrainian missile likely the cause of explosion that killed 2 civilians: Polish president
The errant missile that inadvertently crossed into Polish territory and killed two civilians on Tuesday was likely fired by Ukrainian air defenses and was not an intentional Russian attack, top Polish and NATO officials said today, ratcheting down tensions between NATO and Russia that some observers feared could escalate into all-out war.
https://breakingdefense.com/2022/11/errant-ukrainian-missile-likely-the-cause-of-explosion-that-killed-2-civilians-polish-president/?amp=1
USALiberal
(10,877 posts)I should have replied much better.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,711 posts)USALiberal
(10,877 posts)Response to USALiberal (Reply #38)
MarineCombatEngineer This message was self-deleted by its author.
Just A Box Of Rain
(5,104 posts)as I suggested as a strong possibility yesterday based on the initial analysis of the debris by the (pro-Ukrainian) Ukraine Weapons Tracker.
Glad we didn't start WWIII.
It's a little scary that some are so trigger-happy.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,711 posts)Just A Box Of Rain
(5,104 posts)Putin is not proving to be a "strategic genus" but even with a very low bar, an "intentional attack" hypothesis did not seem likely.
I'm strongly in favor of having the alliance supply Ukraine with all the support they need to defeat Putin, but I join you in not relishing the idea of sparking WWIII and/or a nuclear conflagration.
David__77
(23,499 posts)He has firmly committed to non-intervention from the start.
Torchlight
(3,360 posts)I've been confident since April that western leadership will coolly assess any actions, and only then act in an appropriate, measured and calculated fashion.
I'd guessed it was a Russian misfire. Others guessed it was deliberate. Still others guessed correctly. I'm holding onto the belief that the defense staffs follow a more prudent and calculated line of effect-response-consequence.
Even though my best guesses are entirely ineffectual, if I took puffed-up credit for guessing heads correctly or a jejune pout that others guessed tails wrong, I'd be forced to admit to a degree of pettiness (only in my case).
MineralMan
(146,329 posts)when we go to war over something.