Ok. How about us women? When are our rights codified?

[boston bean]

Believe me I am happy about same sex marriage getting codified.

But it doesn’t decrease my anger that women, once again are not recognized as full human beings because we have a womb.

Again, over it. Pissed and distressed.

[onecaliberal]

1. Just asked that on another thread.

I'm so fucking over this bullshit.

[Diamond_Dog]

2. +100

[AkFemDem]

3. They're gonna get right in that ERA thing...

Any day now… I mean, any decade now….

[Irish_Dem]

14. Oh yes 100% certain. Women are next in line.

We've only been waiting 200,000 years for equal rights.
Has to be any day now.

[appmanga]

33. There's been an argument...

...that the ERA has been ratified, but the National Archive refuses to publish it.

https://msmagazine.com/2022/01/27/equal-rights-amendment-resolution-us-house-28th-amendment-constitution/

[AkFemDem]

34. Wow!! That's just more WTFery !!

[Silent3]

4. Either when we get rid of the filibuster, or get 60 votes in the Senate...

...and 218 in the House.

So, unfortunately, not likely any time soon.

[Scrivener7]

7. 51% of the population, but always on the burner farthest back.

[Sky Jewels]

11. We're in third place behind 1. men and 2. fetuses.

[Silent3]

12. Fourth place

Behind men, fetuses, and guns.

[Sky Jewels]

16. and corporations

Maybe 5th place? Probably lower if we think about it more.

[electric_blue68]

37. Geeeebz, don't go any further or you really make me depressed!

[cksmithy]

43. You are probably right.

But, we have been here since the beginning of time. Our rights matter.

[Irish_Dem]

17. To be honest, we might not even be on the list. :(

[electric_blue68]

38. Oh, wait...

[Irish_Dem]

45. Yes. How does the US female majority keep getting screwed over?

Last edited Wed Nov 16, 2022, 08:34 PM - Edit history (1)

[inthewind21]

89. There's the

64 million $$ question.

[Demsrule86]

73. We don't have the votes.

[Irish_Dem]

95. We are 51% of the population. We have the votes.

[mcar]

5. I had the same thought

Happy this will pass. Frustrated that women's health rights aren't seen as bipartisan too.

[niyad]

29. Women's right, period!

[BComplex]

6. I know!! You'd think that would have been a priority since that has ALREADY been taken away!

Damn it!! Damn it to hell!!!

[inthewind21]

90. It's easier

to shut the barn door BEOFRE the horses bolt. Prevention is always easier than scrambling after the fact.

[MontanaMama]

8. Yes.

On all of this. I'm sick and tired of being valued only as livestock.

[electric_blue68]

39. Moo?*

* laugh to keep from crying, or screaming.

[MontanaMama]

41. You got me on that...

I was coming back loaded for bear…but I hear you. It’s all I can do to not scream or cry.

[electric_blue68]

42. {hug}

[calimary]

78. I love that L. R. Knost quote.

Gonna use it in one of my Indivisible group's upcoming Call to Action emails.

[MontanaMama]

80. Awww. Thank you calimary.

As the mama of a sensitive kiddo…this has been my mantra throughout his childhood.

[getagrip_already]

9. When we actually have enough senators....

To over ride (or eliminate) the filibuster and pass a reproductive rights bill. That's more than 52, since other dem senators might be opposed.

Oh, and a house majority as well.

We don't have the votes. Yet.

[Bettie]

28. So, never....

because Republicans will never vote for women to have full rights.

[getagrip_already]

46. well, we "could" do it wothout repug votes....

But we would need a house majority willing to vote for it, and 50 dems in the senate that would be willing to eliminate the fillibuster and vote for woman's rights. Oh, and a dem potus.

That isn't impossible. But it isn't a description of this or the next congress.

But in 2 years there will be another crop of young voters that have turned 18. And a large crop of older voters who will have turned dead.

So there is hope. And hope is fuel of the revolution (or something like that according to rogue one).

[Bettie]

70. Everyone died in that movie

So, maybe, some day.

But the fact is, if something affects women only, it isn't a priority to most.

[getagrip_already]

74. Lest we forget..

In the not distant past, woman couldn't vote, or own real property, or enter into contracts. In some places, they can't show their faces in public. They can't speak out, or hold jobs, and are forced to suffer genital mutilation.

So yeah, this world can suck. But we can still try to make it better.

[calimary]

77. We HAVE TO.

Nobody else seems that interested. So WE are the ones who have to keep trying to make it better. Oh, yeah, plus two: my husband and my son, and my son-in-law, who knows Mad Mother-in-Law will be breathing down his neck if he doesn't join the fight on our side. Besides, they've given me two granddaughters. I think he's pretty highly-evolved, though, at least from what I've seen. He's got sisters, AND he married our daughter. And she wouldn't have married some knuckle dragger.

[niyad]

32. It is not just reproductive rights.

[getagrip_already]

44. yes, just using rr as an example...

I know there are others. Discrimination, work pay equity, harrassment, glass ceilings, etc.

But I suspect each would be a different bill, yet all have the same obstacles; a united rethug opposition and dem obstructionists..

[niyad]

54. Equal Rights Amendment.

[getagrip_already]

64. been passed and ratified.... all we need to do is recognize it

But I suspect this scotus will block it given the amount of time it took.

[niyad]

66. Of course they will. Woman-hating scum.

[uponit7771]

100. +1,

[ananda]

10. Thank you! It's time to start forcing votes.

!!!

[Hugh_Lebowski]

13. Well, a women's right to marry another woman is codified ...

That's a pretty big deal in my book (men marrying men, too). It does seem much like a step in the proverbial right direction.

For my part, think I'll take this opportunity to celebrate a historic achievement by Democrats for like 2 hours before I return to my usual constant focus on how much other stuff is legit fucked up and wrong in this country and world.

See you on the flip side when the buzz wears off.

[Irish_Dem]

20. Women can hold two thoughts at the same time.

We are the queens of multi-tasking.

Women learned in the 1960's that they were not on the agenda at all.

We fought side by side with men but women's rights were discarded.

Anti-war, civil rights, ecology, etc.
But a big NO for women.

Pissed us off then, pissing us off now.

Or course I am glad the senate acted today.

Thrilled actually. It looks like my daughter and her girl friend can get married next year!
We are texting back and forth in joy as I type these words!

[Walleye]

15. When you are a woman. First thing you learn is you always have to wait

[niyad]

18. Sadly, once again we are at the bottom. I neve r forget that, basically, three men

cost us the ERA. May they receive everything they deserve.

[Fullduplexxx]

19. Non gay marriage is already codified

[Bettie]

30. So, women are supposed to what?

Just sit and be patient, in another fifty or so years, we might get a watered down version of full citizenship?

[love_katz]

21. Kick! Kickety, kicking, kicked!

We have been told to get to the back of the line for far too long.

[SheltieLover]

22. Absofuckingloutely!

[mopinko]

23. i'm hoping the next congress has no filibuster. 51 matters.

i'm confident it can pass in the next congress. it'll be tough in the house, but i think doable if anything is.
who knows, maybe we charge a few traitors and have a few specials.
we'll get a lot more done now.

[BlueCheeseAgain]

24. Honestly-- when politicians feel like they run a political risk for opposing them.

Right now they clearly don't feel that way. More people who are pro-choice need to vote that way. (Supposedly 61% or so of voters are pro-choice, but Republicans got 51% of the House vote. So a lot of pro-choice people are comfortable voting for people who aren't.)

[dlk]

25. Yes, this only goes to show how deeply ingrained misogyny is in America

Same sex marriage is all good and well, however women are the majority of the population.

[Irish_Dem]

49. Yes women are 51% of the population, and we are not treated like full citizens.

[dlk]

51. Too many women are indoctrinated from an early age to be submissive

I'm afraid it will take more women, united, and demanding equal protection under the law before anything significant changes. There are too many enjoying the benefits of discrimination. It pays well.

[Irish_Dem]

53. All minority rulers train those they subjugate to be submissive.

Woman live under male minority rule.
Gender apartheid.

[dlk]

65. Exactly and as we've seen, it's extremely difficult to move beyond the status quo

It took nearly 100 years of activism with harsh backlash for women to win the right to vote and we stand on their shoulders. We must never give up

[Irish_Dem]

67. Reproductive freedom is a major key to equality and the men took it away.

Yes women have been fighting hard for their rights for a long time.
And it gets taken away in an instant.

[Hortensis]

26. Is "codifying" supposed to be some magic bullet that'll

fend off elimination by the RW Christian extremist SCOTUS supermajority? If so, I have really bad news... It's not. They rule. Most of our modern rights are not stated in the constitution, they're merely inferred and thus HIGHLY endangered.

Elections have consequences, and sometimes they really bite.

Btw, interestingly, the words "man/men" and "woman/women" do not appear in the constitution. Its creaters used the word "person/persons." Same for references to race -- Almost without exception references to "person" are undifferentiated by race. Gender differences (and racial), however, were already deeply-deeply embedded (center of earth practically) in societal attitudes and practices and in local and state laws.

Speaking of "bites" to come, also not stated is the right of the federal government to create programs like Social Security or to protect personal decisions like birth control and choice from state interference, right to a free and open internet, right to decide to have elective surgery on our own bodies. And MANY others as vulnerable as Roe was.

[Midwestern Democrat]

85. There seems to be this misbelief that congress can override Supreme Court decisions they don't like.

And it seems to be an idea that is only recently being promoted - in the past, supporters of school segregation never thought congress could override Brown v Board of Education; supporters of school payer never thought congress could override Engle v. Vitale; opponents of abortion never thought congress could override Roe v Wade; opponents of same sex marriage never thought congress could override Obergefell v Hodges, etc.

[inthewind21]

92. Bingo

It's not like there haven't been very clear intentions made public for the last 40 years. I knew election night 2016 what was coming. Once the SC was lost, it was game over. There also seems to be no knowledge that no matter what congress passes, the SC can rule it unconstitutional and strike it down. Civics 101 teaches that.

[Meowmee]

27. Prolly never

And although I support what happened I do not believe married people and or people with children should receive better treatment in many areas than single people without children.

[BadgerMom]

31. Right there with you.

I read the news headlines from the NY Times and LA Times. After a short burst of elation, I was pissed off royally. This could keep same sex marriage out of the clutches of the Supreme Court and, for that, I’m thrilled. But I’ve been waiting my entire adult life. I was in college when the ERA was partially ratified. I was an adult during the days of Roe. I’ve been patient. I am no longer. I’m just angry-really, really angry. I’d hoped our votes last week would serve to demonstrate I’m not the only one who is angry. I’m ready to peacefully demonstrate, get arrested if need be, follow in Suffragette footsteps. What. about. us?!!!!!

[inthewind21]

93. How would

it keep it from the clutches of the SC? They are the ultimate deciders. They have over ridden laws passed by congress many times.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

35. Women have the power to shut the whole shitshow down.

[BlueCheeseAgain]

40. Yeah. It's not a pleasant fact to face ...

... but a substantial fraction of women vote for Republicans. DeSantis, for example, won a majority of women in Florida this time, when everyone knew that electing him would mean the end of abortion rights there.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

57. As I understand it, he won a majority of old and white.

That demographic is shrinking in the rest of the country.

[Irish_Dem]

52. Yep woman are the glue that holds the entire shit show together.

And we keep holding it all together no matter how badly we are treated.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

58. The midterms encouraged me -- there's a swell of good sense coming.

I think there is a big, slow-moving blue wave building that started in 2018. It seems a lot of people who have not participated much are beginning to notice they can change what they don't like.

Maybe we just need to yell louder about what's been accomplished since then.

[BadgerMom]

61. I wish I felt that optimistic.

I think the House will impeach, obstruct, investigate heroic public servants and generally act against the best interests of the country. I sure hope I’m wrong, but recent history doesn’t buoy me.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

62. The crazies in the House will spend 2 years teaching the electorate who they are.

Pres Joe, Speaker Nancy, and Leader Schumer have spent 2 years teaching the electorate what can be done. We need to flash the list of accomplishments every time the GOP House fails.

[BigmanPigman]

36. Why should women have any rights?

After all, we are only the MAJORITY of the population in the US.

[Liberty Belle]

47. Women need to stage sit-ins at every Republican Senate & House member's home offices -

and have a team in each district that dogs these members, showing up with bloody coat hanger images every place they go - including GOP fundraisers, speeches at Chamber of Commerce meetings, etc.

Start a list of names of women who died because they couldn't get abortions in some states, and create a quilt with their names like AIDS victims' advocates did. Show it everywhere. Do displays of empty women's shoes for all the victims of these cruel laws.

They should not have a moment's peace until women get equal rights, period.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

48. (Is this about abortion? Because not every woman has a womb, and not everyone who has a womb is

a woman.)

[Mister Ed]

69. What they all have in common is that they live in a state of oppression. n/t

[AllyCat]

87. It is not just about that.

Getting rid of abortion rights was the first huge leap to keeping women down. We cannot earn as much when we have no choice on when to bear children. We become more dependent on men for financial survival. Physically, we face greater danger. It’s harder to vote.

Until the ‘70s, we could not apply for loans or hold a credit card.

Dominionists have found a way to control our every action by regulating a part of our bodies.

[Irish_Dem]

50. Men hold minority rule over women who are 51% of the population. Gender apartheid.

[Evolve Dammit]

55. Excellent question and thread. K&R

[BlueCheeseAgain]

56. When women (and men) stop voting for Republicans.

This isn't simply a women vs men issue. According to exit polls, a majority of Florida women voted for DeSantis this time, and a majority of Texas women voted for Abbott. We're not going to advance reproductive rights when things like that happen.

[usonian]

63. That says a lot. But it takes some thinking through.

For people to vote against their own best interests, there have to be other countervailing factors.
Puts on thinking cap ...
• Party loyalty?
• Propagandized against 'those others'
• Really believing some of the phoney baloney "issues" (a.k.a. outrages du jour) such as immigration, inflation, WHATEVER ...
or the weirdest one:
• It's just a cult and cult membership requires no thinking, only outrage at others not in the cult.

I am not averse to kicking in a few bucks to help others in need (you can't say that in GQP land), but sure, it's "against my interest" but I didn't say BEST interest, because my BEST interest is to be a decent human being, if not a sterling example.

But to prioritize that other nonsense over a basic right. Lose your rights, and you have nothing.
I wonder if Abbott will let women "man" those gunboats he plans to use to patrol the border.
One sick wacko.

[Skittles]

59. indeed

where is the RESPECT FOR WOMEN act

[DownriverDem]

60. Like everything in DC

it takes votes. We need to continue to do all we can to beat the MAGA repubs.

[Bird Lady]

68. I think I'm going to handle it a little differently.

I will not spend a minute worrying about these rules and laws.
I will continue to live my life as I did before the ruling.
I don't except any excuses and I won't give any, in this case.

[hlthe2b]

71. Manchin won't let the filibuster be waived to vote on it.

I know he has a few defenders, but in terms of support for women, he's a ...

(well, fill in the blank so I don't get a post hidden for not being sufficiently supportive of a nominal Dem)

[Corgigal]

79. Then we women need to start our own lobbying group,

put big funding in there, and buy off some of these representations.

[Demsrule86]

72. I don't think we have the votes...I doubt there are 12 GOP Senators willing to do this.

[Bettie]

82. I doubt there's one GOP senator

willing to do this.

[FlyingPiggy]

75. Was thinking the EXACT same thing today! Codify RvW!!

[calimary]

76. Damn Straight!

It's good news for our gay brothers and sisters and those who love them. So I'm happy.

But women and their wombs? Um, hello? Anybody there? Do we just not care about that or are we just not interested?

Asking for a friend with a womb, and for the woman with the womb who I see in the mirror every day.

[DemocraticPatriot]

81. "Boston Bean", you are a woman ?? Forgive my ignorance!

My worldview is altered, or something, LOL

As a self-entitled older white man, with latent misogony (I don't hate women, I love women, BUT as a man I can never entirely 'get it' and probably subsconsciously think myself superior or something)
I tend to automatically presume that posters on a political board are also men, if I don't know otherwise... just a knee-jerk thing... stupidity, I suppose... but then again I don't ask myself "is this a man or a woman", maybe that is a personal failure...

OK, in my younger years, I could never find a woman who would share my interest in politics, so maybe that plays into it-- I am so glad to witness women and Young Women coming out to VOTE this midterm, and THWARTING the 'red wave' !!!!
GOD BLESS YOU ALL!!!!

I am familiar with you for a long time, and have admired your posts and your influence here!


I AGREE with you... but sadly it seems that we can find more Republicans to stand up for gay marriage, than for women's rights over their own bodies... At this time, I can think of only one or two Senate Republicans who might support such a vote to codify abortion rights (Collins and Murkowski?) And then we have Manchin, who might vote against it...

Yes, it SUCKS!!! The recent battle has ended but the war continues!

I do think that the Democrats should bring codification of Roe rights to a vote, while we have the power to do so!
Let the votes fall where they may! And let's get these votes ON THE RECORD, for 2024 advertisements!

[dsc]

83. Not to be too technical but same sex marriage didn't get codified

if Obergefell falls then marriage equality will be where abortion is now. We would have the ability to have our marriages recognized by the feds and states which didn't issue the license but not be able to get married in states which refuse to issue licenses. Since many states banned marriage equality with constitutional amendments removing those bans would in many cases be harder.

[boston bean]

84. I understand. But women got no preemptive action. Zip zero nada.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

86. This isn't "too technical" -- people need to understand it.

[Hortensis]

88. :) Good point to bring up.

[Hortensis]

91. Boston, women are 50%+ of The People and have the right to vote

as "full human beings." NO to the notion that any woman needs any more "recognition" than that to work for and be the change she wants.

HALF of ALL racial, ideological, religious, ethnic, and economic groups is one fucking BIG, POWERFUL demographic. So NO to any ridiculous, self-defeating notion that women are helpless victims. No women should cast blame on men without also casting a full share at themselves.

Of course We The People, women included, did create many legally protected rights for women as "full human beings" over the past century. All those that are now endangered, in fact.

They didn't just appear out of thin air and somehow 100 years of legislators of both parties refused to "codify" them. They were the result of enough demand among the people for these rights combining with a liberal democratic government designed to serve the will of The People. Winning out at least mostly over very powerful opposing We The People forces.

And they're in danger now because commitment among The People to protect their rights from those who'd take them away, including the very right to government designed to enact the will of The People, dropped below critical levels.

We're all Full Citizens and have been for a long time, but there's never been a time when those who move society forward didn't have to drag resisters and dead weights (including those who refuse to realize they have a job to do) forward with them. When there aren't enough movers acting together, women same as men, society loses ground. And here we are.

[boston bean]

96. You got a strange way of interpreting my post.

I really disagree with your characterization of it in your first couple of sentences.

[Hortensis]

97. Well, good, and I apologize for misunderstanding -- to you.

NOT to those who embrace grievance and victimization and angrily leap to blame targets of resentment, but not themselves, for...whatever's rousing resentment at the moment.

Many observers believe that those whose political attitudes are formed around negativism and anger toward others have become a huge national problem contributing to every society-endangering problem. That is precisely why enemies of democracy invest so much effort, 24/7/365, into developing grievance in as many citizens as possible as a self-defeating, nation-destroying habit.

RW subversive groups specialize in it, but it's been so extremely successful that many LW subversives have focused very heavily on it as well.

[boston bean]

98. Get a grip. People recognize an injustice speak, speak to it and it's an embrace of grievance

and victimization???

How insulting.

[Hortensis]

99. Oh, yeah, probably AT LEAST 100 million. It's epidemic and

extremely effective at dividing and conquering, suppressing the vote, depressing belief in democracy itself, of course building dangerous populist anger. Convincing all vulnerable that government is proven corrupt because it could but doesn't FIX (insert grievance).

Why on earth wouldn't any subversive or just dissident group push it BIG? On every main issue?

Btw, regarding this codified theme, I guess I just don't go places that push it, but it sounds on its face typically anti-Democratic Party, as almost all grievance themes ultimately are. Think about it.

Everyone knows Republican Party/trumpists is currently zealously committed to rolling back most of a century of women's rights, so of course no one would complain that they didn't fix it. The narrative, stated or just implied, by default normally becomes that the Democrats are to blame for not avoiding or fixing it.

And when the bottom line is that (insert grievance) couldn't have happened without Democratic colllusion or at best indifference, there's no need to even mention the Republicans, white supremacists, religious right, libertarian billionaires,...anyone who actually were behind it.

In this case, Democrats are the only ones anyone might claim SHOULD codify all state laws guaranteeing individual rights under federal law, right. After all, the Republicans never would. That leaves the Democrats as the ones who should but didn't. And therefore should be blamed.

It might be thought the fact that the demanded (insert fix to grievance) is impossible -- in this case for a bunch of HUGE valid reasons -- would be a problem in selling that narrative. Not. It's a great opportunity. Grievance needs feeding, and if what those who see themselves as victims demand really cannot be done the Democrats will always be guilty of not doing it! Genius! Really invested victims can be angry at the Democrats and refuse to vote for them for the rest of their lives.

Think what that means. No wonder so much effort is spent on this kind of political attitude adjustment.

[boston bean]

102. From on high you have provided your own baseless opinion of my words

and who I am.

You couldn't be more wrong no matter how many nicely phrased barbs on my character are written by you.

Go ahead and continue on with whatever it is you think about me. I really could care less to engage any further with you in what I regard as completely false accusations on my character and my commitment as a life long democrat.

Have a good night and good time drafting the next 6-10 paragraphs as last word, if it gets you through the night.

[Hortensis]

103. But we're not talking about you. I just made an

assumption based on the subject and pattern (such as not differentiating GOP from Dems on this civil rights issue), and I've apologized for it.

But the subject I raised is itself very important. Training many millions of people of a democracy who have the power of the VOTE to see themselves as helpless, angry victims instead of citizens with a job to do is right out of "How to Destroy a Democracy for Dummies." It's mentioned in the introduction, and in addition to having a long chapter devoted to grievance politics alone, applications are discussed throughout the book.

Maybe google the term. There're a lot more than just one book about this.

[Torchlight]

94. K&R nt