U.S. Weighs 100-Mile Strike Weapon for Ukraine

[applegrove]

U.S. Weighs 100-Mile Strike Weapon for Ukraine

November 28, 2022 at 2:01 pm EST By Taegan Goddard 53 Comments

https://politicalwire.com/2022/11/28/u-s-weighs-100-mile-strike-weapon-for-ukraine/

"SNIP........

Reuters: “The Pentagon is considering a Boeing proposal to supply Ukraine with cheap, small precision bombs fitted onto abundantly available rockets, allowing Kyiv to strike far behind Russian lines as the West struggles to meet demand for more arms.”

.......SNIP"

[SergeStorms]

1. Good.

The Russian homeland must be made to pay a price for Putin's madness.

Russia has been paying with the loss of lives, but Putin doesn't care about Russian lives. Blow some of their infrastructure to smithereens and see how they like living in the cold and dark.

Ukraine's reach must extend into Russian territory for this to really hit home with the Russian people. Maybe then they'll put enough pressure on Putin to stop his madness.

[mitch96]

14. Vloger Suchomimus has a vid on this very item.. Looks neat as it uses munitions

that were gonna be decommissioned anyway I believe. The ruzzian command and control will have to pull back even FARTHER from the fight. I feel bad for private Conscriptovich and new mobitskys when this hell hits them.. Such a waste of human beings... Ruzzia does not care.
m

[Just A Box Of Rain]

2. An attack on "the motherland" demands a nuclear response under long-standing

Soviet and Russian military doctrines.

We should arm Ukraine with the weapons it needs to drive Putin's forces out, while also doing the utmost to have defensive systems in place to protect population centers (the one area that has been somewhat deficient), but providing 100 mile weapons w/o strong assurances they would not be used to strike recognized Russian territory would be a mistake.

We do not want to spark a nuclear attack. Or WWIII. Or both.

[applegrove]

3. I trust Ukraine to fire them only at Russian invaders, not within Russia.

[Just A Box Of Rain]

4. We would need such assurances.

The alternative is madness.

[PortTack]

5. President Zelensky in a written statement to the WH said they would seek permission for each strike

If that’s what it would take to get longer ranger weapons.

Ukraine could strike deeper into Crimea gutting supplies and other ammo depots. Just as the HIMARS shifted the war in favor of Ukraine, this would do a lot to decimate russian supplies held deep inside Crimea

[Just A Box Of Rain]

10. Such a condition would create its own problems.

As Russia could then claim, with some justification, that attacks on its forces were approved (if not directed) by the USA and NATO.

It is complicated.

[OnDoutside]

6. Presumably it can hit Russian military targets within Crimea, even

Sevastapol ?

[Just A Box Of Rain]

7. And that's the situation where there is a rub.

The US, our allies, and certainly the Ukrainians do not recognize Russian sovereignty over Crimea.

Putin, just as obviously, has another opinion.

The battle for Crimea will be fraught with the highest tensions and risks (assuming there are no direct attacks on territory we recognize as Russian).

Were NATO weapons systems used to take out the Kerch bridge that connects Russia to Crimea, it would be highly esculatory.

We all need to be careful.

[OnDoutside]

9. I doubt they'd want to completely take down that bridge despite

the previous attack. If Ukraine could breakthrough in the Spring, it would suit them to see the Russians withdraw over the bridge. The bigger target is the naval base and the various airfields, especially the airfields.

[Just A Box Of Rain]

11. Sun Tzu famously advocated that it is wise to give one's enemy the impression

that they have an escape route, as a way to undermine the enemy's fighting spirit.

[NutmegYankee]

8. F*ck that!

Russia is hitting civilian grid and water systems all throughout Ukraine. Give Ukraine what she needs to hit the same systems in Russia and make a formal warning that the use of a tactical Nuke means a direct Nuclear response.

Do you really think White Nationalist Russia wants to exterminate Europe and the USA, home to most of the worlds white people?

[Just A Box Of Rain]

13. Let's say that I'm grateful that we have military and foreign policy leadership

who understand the situation better.

Thay have studied Soviet/Russian military doctrine, and comprehend the risks to humankind.

[TomSlick]

15. And, therefore, Russia can position missile batteries just inside the Russian border

and strike Ukrainian hospitals, residential areas, and the electrical grid without a risk of counter-battery fire. Unless Ukraine is provided the means to defend itself, its fate is sealed.

The US is prepared to provide just enough support to continue the war but not to end it. As a result, the Ukrainian people are doomed to either be murdered in their homes or freeze in the winter.

Putin depends on the US fearing a nuclear strike in order to continue his genocide. So far, his rattling the nuclear saber is working for him. The fear of Putin being irrational enough to use nuclear weapons is sufficient to freeze the US in fear.

[Just A Box Of Rain]

16. No, I don't think so.

Ukrainians have been hitting RU sites just inside the border in places like Belograd.

But there are advantages that come with being a major nuclear power--like it, or don't.

Nuclear saber rattling really isn't working for Putin, his forces have been decimated. However we still need to be aware of what actions are certain to be escalatory.

Deep strikes into recognized Russian territory would be destabilizing.

The Ukrainians are not "doomed." They are getting support and it is vital we maintain the support. As we avoid touching off a nuclear conflagration.

We have twin goals and wise leadership.

[TomSlick]

17. Ukrainian civilians will continue to die in their homes,

either from the Russians targeting civilians or freezing them out.

Russian forces are taking heavy losses but Putin does not care. There are millions of Russians and ethnic minorities to pour into the meat grinder.

All Putin has to do is to use stand-off missile systems to continue to pound civilians and civilian infrastructure. If Russian forces are safe behind the border, the war will not end until Ukraine and the Ukrainian people cease to exist. Yes, the Ukrainians are getting support but only enough support to continue the war, not to end it.

War is always destabilizing. Allowing a barbarian to conquer a neighbor is also destabilizing.

The world has seen this movie before. If Putin is allowed to commit genocide in Ukraine, the Ukrainians will not be the last.

[Just A Box Of Rain]

18. Putin isn't being allowed to commit genocide in Ukraine.

His invasion has been resisted and his forces are losing.

As we help the Ukrainians, we also must not act in a reckless fashion that could spark a nuclear war. Because no genocide would be greater than that.

[TomSlick]

19. I think we're to the point that neither will convince the other.

[Just A Box Of Rain]

20. You certainly won't convince me that sparking WWIII is a good idea.

We need to offer Ukraine our full support in their war against Putin's agression--which we are--while not taking reckless measure that could put an end to humankind.

[TomSlick]

21. We are not using words to mean the same thing.

You contend that we are giving Ukraine "our full support," while saying we should not provide missiles with a range of 100 miles - that will not reach Russian territory from the current Ukrainian lines. I think "full support" means providing the Ukrainians with the means to strike the Russian missile batteries that are targeting civilian targets, wherever located. If we cannot agree about the meaning of terms like "full support," neither of us will convince the other.

We also have a different view on Putin's capacity to commit suicide. I see the risk of "sparking WWIII," at least one that involved a nuclear exchange between the US and Russia, to be remote because Putin knows he would not personally survive a nuclear exchange. If Putin is sufficiently suicidal to start a nuclear exchange, the Russian military is not. Putin fully understands the concept of mutually assured destruction - for either the US or Russia to initiate a nuclear exchange is unthinkable.

Neither Russia nor the US is interested in their ground forces fighting each other in Ukraine. The US is only willing to fight Russia to the last Ukrainian. The Russian military knows that the US military would sweep Russia from the field. Even a conventional WWIII is not going to happen.

I believe that as the strongest nation in the world, both militarily and economically, the US has an obligation to prevent gross violations of international law and genocide. You do not share that view.

Our frames of reference are too different for either of us to convince the other. There is nothing to be gained from our arguing with each other.

[Just A Box Of Rain]

22. You are mischaracterizing what I said.

I said that we would need to have a clear understanding with UKR forces that longer range armaments that are supplied by the US and our NATO partners would not be used to strike deep into Russian territory, as such attacks would justify a nuclear response under long-standing Soviet and Russian military doctrines.

We must take these things seriously.

Fortunately our military and foreign policy establishment is filled with people who have studied Soviet and Russian military doctrines and they are not going to act like cowboys.

People can say whatever they want on the internet, when they don't have the fate of humanity in their hands. But leaders have other considerations.

Suggesting that I do not share the idea that the US has an obligation to prevent gross violations of international law and genocide is a malicious slander and patently false.

The US has many obligations, one is not to recklessly touch off a nuclear conflict when we understand what would trigger such a response by the Russians.

Good grief!

[TomSlick]

23. We have gone too far.

If this is not a conversation that we can have without accusing each other of tortious conduct or misrepresentation, I will do neither on DU.

[Just A Box Of Rain]

24. Sorry, you already crossed that line--and by a country mile.

[Alhena]

12. "The Boeing plan requires a price discovery waiver, exempting the contractor from an in-depth review

of whether the Pentagon is getting the best deal."

Military Industrial Complex never changes, lol.

Still support this weapon being sent, even if Boeing fleeces the taxpayers for it.