"To believe that Trump's presidency came out of nowhere, without warning, is the political...

[NNadir]

...version of creationism. I, on the other hand, believe in devolution. The election of a serially bankrupt, functionally illiterate reality TV show host was the logical consequence of the five decades preceding it, which, with apologies to Edith Wharton, I'll call the Age of Ignorance..."

A sentence from Andy Borowitz's "Profiles in Ignorance."

Borowitz writes the hilarious satiric "news" stories in the New Yorker.

I just got this out of the library, but it deserves a place in my permanent home library. I'm just a few pages into it, and I recognize some real serious profundity.

[lunatica]

1. I thought about this a lot

And I’ve wondered lately if something like this, like the rise of authoritarian rule isn’t somehow a natural outcome of governing for any country. I believe Democracy is a natural outcome of authoritarian rule, simply because the people will eventually rise up against it.

Just something I’ve been ruminating about. I”m sure many know much more than I do about the evolution of governments in any given country. I may get this book now.

Thanks!

[PatrickforB]

3. Hmm. So, you're suggesting cycles? A sort of dialectic conflict?

When the people have too much power (democracy) a demagogue arises and imposes a dictatorship.

Then, when the dictatorship palls, the people eventually rebel and once again impose democracy?

Seems like we're living in a giant Edgar Allen Poe-ish Pit and Pendulum set up. With us strapped to the board waiting for the 'final cut.'

Sadly that makes sense. I don't disagree with you.

[Demsrule86]

11. Trump's presidency came out of a botched election on our part where enough of our people

voted for a third-party fake candidate Jill Stein (I can't stand Greens) to throw the election to Trump. It should never have happened and I sincerely hope those who did not vote for Hillary Clinton...the only one who could stop Trump sincerely regret what they did... every time a woman can't receive lifesaving reproductive medical treatment. I think about those who attacked Hillary relentlessly and essentially helped elect Trump when they voted for Stein.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

12. Not a rise, so much as authoritarianism is always there, looking for a way to take over. . . . nt

[lunatica]

21. Good point!

It’s true! All the necessary factors for the rise of authoritarianism seem to be there. The pursuit of power underlies all governing. It seems to be built in.

Thanks for responding!

[soldierant]

2. Andy has always been good at that

All of his satore either sounds like it is true - or you wisj it was.

Funy people are virtually always ubderrated.

[markodochartaigh]

4. The strength, or weakness, of democracy

is that sooner or later the people get the government that they deserve.

[Justice matters.]

5. Not really true...

In cases where "the people" who impose their rule, by force or by cheats, represent a minority (minority rule).

[inthewind21]

8. It's

exactly true. It's easy to claim it was all taken by force and cheating. It gets "the people" off the hook and leaves them blameless. The fact of the matter is, "the people" put the government we have in power. Either by choice or by no action at all. Trump won the WH legally. McConnell keeps getting elected. Legally. As does Jordan, McCarthy and the rest of the loon brigade. "The people" have been warned for decades what was coming. And here we are. So tell me, what force was used and where is all this cheating I keep hearing about? EVERYTHING in this country happens because "the people" allow it. From slavery, to near non stop mass shootings to the overturning of ROE to the trash that is social media. When history is written, it won't say American citizens were forced and cheated. It will ask, why did the American people allow this to happen.

[Justice matters.]

9. Cheats

Gerrymandering is the political manipulation of electoral district boundaries with the intent of creating undue advantage for a party, group, or socio-economic class within the constituency. The manipulation may consist of "cracking" (diluting the voting power of the opposing party's supporters across many districts) or "packing" (concentrating the opposing party's voting power in one district to reduce their voting power in other districts). Gerrymandering can also be used to protect incumbents.

Both sides do it, but Republicans do it in a much larger scale than Democrats.

The end result is the Republicans always "govern" based on the minority rule.

[newdayneeded]

6. There's a quote from long ago,

maybe a past president that stated something like that. democracy evolves for election after election and eventually will elect a common dumb man.

[Johnny2X2X]

7. Sarah Palin

When John McCain selected Sarah Palin as his running mate in 2008 and that didn't immediately disqualify that ticket for most Republicans is when I knew they were already more than half way down the rabbit hole. It was at that moment when I realized that they were not just celebrating ignorance at the voter level, but they were celebrating it at the leadership level.

I remember when she gave that disastrous interview and couldn't even name books or magazines she read. She cam across as an ignorant know nothing. A coworker remarked to me, "I liked her, she lets us know that any of us could be President." And that's where I disagreed with her, any of us can't be President, I know I couldn't do the job well. But that was revealing about where the Conservative mind set was at and was heading. The rejection of science and expertise, anti intellectualism, and the celebration of ignorance were taking over that party.

The Republicans didn't take him seriously and didn't stop him in the primaries. The Dems didn't take him seriously enough in the general election. And now the GOP is ruined for all time.

[ismnotwasm]

10. I think this is, in part the natural outcome of colonialism

Despots and authoritarian leaders are nothing new. Whiteness as a social standard is experiencing its first real challenges. Roles are changing with women gaining real power. Tie that in with Whiteness. (Over half of White women vote for Trump, its fucking embarrassing) Religion, in the US, the Christian religion, is losing power rapidly. Capitalism may be in its late stages. People are stressed about money, and see inequities in real time. Con artists exploit people who don’t understand their own feelings of fear and dissatisfaction.

Also, people are stupid with information, all the information we have at our fingertips, and people us it for bias confirmation.

So racism, misogyny, colonialism, and capitalism produced Trump. It also produced the people who voted for him. They seem to revel in being dickheads—“fuck your feelings” kind of crap. They apparently think they piss us off, and enjoy that thought, instead of understanding they aregiving us revulsion and literal and mental nausea. They are gross.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

13. By your theory, Britain would be immune from authoritarianism. They are not. . . . nt

[StormKing]

15. ....how?

I mean for one, huge colonizers.

[ismnotwasm]

16. Explain, please

Thinking of India as the first example

[Bernardo de La Paz]

17. America was the colony and has the authoritarianism streak. Britain was the colonizer

Nominally, the US does not have colonies and certainly did not have traditional European-style colonies.

Yet the US is the one with the authoritarian streak, more so than UK.

But my point is that no country is immune, so pointing to colonialism is a non-starter. I interpreted your post to mean that being colonies is the cause or major contributing factor. If you meant it the other way, it is still a non-starter for a theory.



Hungary is ruled by an authoritarian. They were not a colony and do not / did not have colonies.

[ismnotwasm]

18. So, I was being trying to be quick I think

US started out as a colony, with a colonial mindset. There’s a lot of history to go into. Do you think Hungary and the US are similar?

[Bernardo de La Paz]

19. No. That's my point. Hungary and US are not similar

Colonialism does not correlate with authoritarianism on either side of the colonial equation.

Nor is there really any social theory that would give weight to colonialism on either side as a major or even minor factor in authoritarianism tendencies.

Authoritarianism is on a different axis.

Colonial nations can have more or less authoritarianism.
Colony countries can go on to have more or less authoritarianism.
Never-colonies and never-colonial the same, can have more or less authoritarianism.

Countries conquer others not out of authoritarianism, but out of commercialism and geopolitical impulses and drives.

[StormKing]

14. It's a dark alleyway for many White Americans

After legal segregation was ended a lot of Americans wanted to believe that they ended racism. When Obama was elected the same thing happened a lot of Americans wanted to believe that they ended racism.

Racism never ended of course. Statistically the majority of White people are racist in one way or another. So many White people are racist in fact that any organization, employer, church, political party, service etc that has more than a few White participants has not only racists in their midst, they've been onto power and have used their power again POC and other non-White ethnicities. The only exceptions are jobs that specifically employ no White people at all.

Understanding that Trump did not come out of nowhere is an admission of how racist our country is. Many white people cannot handle admitting that. We have a lot of work to do, and people are very, VERY uncomfortable with that work.

There was a post here in General Discussion a few weeks back that said "White people have a lot of work to do." Some of the replies were by why people that can handle it. Some of the replies were nothing more than exercises in "white fragility" where a few people being offended buy racism being called out was more important than the racism itself.

[Tommy Carcetti]

20. I saw precursors to Trumpism before Trump.

Sarah Palin, obviously.

Guys who "rolled coal," i.e modified their truck's exhausts to spew smoke just to be dicks about the environment.

Birtherism.

The Tea Party movement.

The frenzied, irrational opposition to having an Islamic Center near the WTC site.

[Just A Box Of Rain]

22. Populism is alway lurking in every society.

There are always people who are ready to pin all of society's problems on "The Other" who is the cause of all "the people's" woes. And they are more than willing to become cult-like followers of the only man (always seems to be men) to can embody the "will of the people."

This is what drives authoritarianism/totalitarianism in almost every instance.

Populism has its far-right and far-left variations, but both are toxic and deadly.

[Trenzalore]

23. After Poppy Bush and Buchannon had their feud

They certainly became crazier each year.

Buchannon lost the primary but won the war.