General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsMany Americans are rooting for Iran to beat USA in FIFA. Me too.
Iran is currently in a countrywide uprising against their fascist government. Iranians want freedom and they're putting their lives on the line just by demonstrating.
The Iranian soccer team has been trying to spread the message of the "rebellion" to the rest of the world. They're trying to be low-keyed about it, but in truth, they're putting their lives on the line by the "subtle" messages they've been sending. Given what they've done so far, they could all be executed when they return home. (They won't sing the Iranian national anthem, or display the icon of their government on their flag.)
The longer they can continue to advance in FIFA, the longer they can push their plea and message to the world to help Iranians gain their freedom from a vicious, brutal regime. And they deserve all the help they can get.
A democratic Iran is in the best interest of America and the entire world. Thousands of Iranians have already been murdered because they were just suspected of taking part in the rebellion. Balance that against the USA losing a soccer game. They'll just go home with many people disappointed. If the Iranians lose, they can go home to almost certain torture and/or death.
JohnSJ
(92,219 posts)regardless of how far Iran advances in the games, that will NOT change what the government in Iran does.
and in fact I would argue that the U.S. winning against Iran, would bring more focus on the events in Iran than the reverse, because the Iranian government would use it for propaganda purposes.
https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/27/football/iran-us-flag-protesters-klinsmann-2022-world-cup-spt-intl
Takket
(21,577 posts)And portraying their possible advancement as something that could help the oppressed back home is silly. If advancing or even winning would somehow lead to their theocracy being overthrown I would do it but it just wont.
USA all the way. No glory and gloating for the ayatollah.
Walleye
(31,028 posts)But it looks to me like the US is dominating pretty well, am I wrong?
ZonkerHarris
(24,229 posts)to most short attention span Americans.
Baseball throw a few pitches go to commercial
Football run 3 plays go to commercial
Doesnt tax a viewer too hard
kairos12
(12,862 posts)American sport.
Violence punctuated by meetings.
Walleye
(31,028 posts)Tribetime
(4,699 posts)Walleye
(31,028 posts)Ive just never like the idea of a game where you hit the ball with your head
MichMan
(11,938 posts)Walleye
(31,028 posts)sarisataka
(18,663 posts)Just over a week ago, there were calls to eject Iran from the World Cup. Now we are cheering for them.
Out of curiosity, what are you basing your assertion "Many Americans are rooting for Iran" on?
emulatorloo
(44,131 posts)I hope the Iranian team is safe when they return to Iran but I fear they wont be, given the heinous theocracy they live under.
jcgoldie
(11,631 posts)In which the Iranian press projected a barrage of completely unfair criticism upon American players and coach disabused me of any sympathy for the Iranian team today. I hope the Americans beat them.
I do have some empathy with the team members if they are trying to do a subtle protest, but definitely not for the egregious theocratic government and their propaganda arm.
Cyrano
(15,041 posts)It's owned by the rulers of Iran, those that the population is trying to overthrow.
underpants
(182,829 posts)jcgoldie
(11,631 posts)BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)I hate that "eye-ran" that so many people say.
jcgoldie
(11,631 posts)How many players would pronounce opposing country names accurately? Should Mexicans be offended because foreigners do not say Meheeco?
Nonetheless his response was humble and classy.
BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)He handled that well.
malaise
(269,054 posts)but to shut them all up a draw would be fine.
Wingus Dingus
(8,054 posts)Shrike47
(6,913 posts)Cyrano
(15,041 posts)The Iranian players have a different goal. Not winning a game, but advancing as far as possible to keep their message and their cause on the world stage as long as possible.
To be as blunt as possible, this isn't about painting your face and shouting USA, USA, USA. There's something bigger at stake here.
emulatorloo
(44,131 posts)your OP isnt clearly written and/or completely logical.
I suggest you re-read JohnSJs reply to you above. He lays out very clearly why your OP may be ill advised:
regardless of how far Iran advances in the games, that will NOT change what the government in Iran does.
and in fact I would argue that the U.S. winning against Iran, would bring more focus on the events in Iran than the reverse, because the Iranian government would use it for propaganda purposes.
https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/27/football/iran-us-flag-protesters-klinsmann-2022-world-cup-spt-intl
Cyrano
(15,041 posts)what was going on in Iran and how their team is really putting their lives on the line by publicly siding with those fighting the fascist government.
I didn't really think I'd need to give a lesson on current world politics on DU. Evidently, I was wrong.
emulatorloo
(44,131 posts)Your heart is in the right place, and so are the hearts of DUers commenting.
But I personally find your strategy wrongheaded, seems like it could backfire big time.
JohnSJ explains my misgivings much better than I ever could.
Take care of yourself. You are a wonderful person.
BradAllison
(1,879 posts).....and he handled him with class. Sorry.
Wingus Dingus
(8,054 posts)to hope a US team loses. That's weird, to me.
Takket
(21,577 posts)Iran advancing isnt going to lead to some revolution. Im rooting for my country.
MarineCombatEngineer
(12,399 posts)BradAllison
(1,879 posts)It's fucking soccer, after all, but keep gnashing your teeth.
underpants
(182,829 posts)Dr. Strange
(25,921 posts)I really want to see the US make it's place in soccer. Our women's team is a perennial success. I want to see that from the men as well.
BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)I don't think it makes a damn bit of difference, however.
Mr.Bill
(24,303 posts)will seek asylum and not go home.
Cyrano
(15,041 posts)sarisataka
(18,663 posts)Only 9 play for clubs in Iran. They do not need to request asylum.
emulatorloo
(44,131 posts)Marcus IM
(2,209 posts)Especially the human interest stories about how hard life is in America, and the heroic Olympians who have struggled with America's lack of social infrastructures. Makes me feel patriotic.
malaise
(269,054 posts)Half Time
USA 1 Iran 0
jimfields33
(15,823 posts)MarineCombatEngineer
(12,399 posts)We're well aware of what's going on in Iran, I hope they can throw off the shackles of tyranny, but I won't root against my home team.
GO USA!!!!
Sunsky
(1,737 posts)I am not one of them.
Cyrano
(15,041 posts)Many here are expressing their "patriotism" for the US team. But most don't seem to give a shit what will happen to the Iranian team when they return home.
Where's all the DU "empathy." Where's the DU understanding of the oppressed? Where are the DUers who give a damn about the lives of others, even if they're not Americans? Where the hell is the DU that stands for the freedom of all, and not winning some some stupid fucking game?
And let me state this as strongly as possible.
Sigh.
MarineCombatEngineer
(12,399 posts)IOW, we are quite capable of understanding the oppression in Iran and what the Iranian team is attempting to accomplish and rooting for our USA team to win.
GO TEAM USA!!!!
Marcus IM
(2,209 posts)Meanwhile, on one hand there's posts here wanting to have the insurrectionist J-6ers and planners (and anti-vaxer protesters) heads cracked, arrested and jailed for the insurrection and planning. On the other hand there's support here by some for Venezuela's fascist insurrectionist leader Juan Guaido and his team of fascists - that the US gov't supports/backs.
Go figure. DU is a WIDE spectrum. A BIG tent.
Cyrano
(15,041 posts)Too many of the posts on this thread reek of Republican "patriotism." I repeat. Sigh.
Marcus IM
(2,209 posts)MarineCombatEngineer
(12,399 posts)Just what are you accusing those of us, and that's the vast majority of posts on this thread. that are disagreeing with you?
treestar
(82,383 posts)That's their claim, not ours.
Ace Rothstein
(3,163 posts)Nah, thread fail.
Wingus Dingus
(8,054 posts)Cheering for your country to lose? Hoping our players get deprived of something they've worked hard for? Wanting a "comeuppance" on the world stage? I want no part of that.
malaise
(269,054 posts)about the Iranian people - it has long been divide and rule for US interests.
Sorry that's the truth. Check the overthrow of democracy for BP, check Iran Contra, blah blah blah!
BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)malaise
(269,054 posts)Oh Petro Caribe would be my best response given the US removal of sanctions against Venezuela - its always US self interest.
Celerity
(43,409 posts)the democratically elected Mohammad Mosaddegh, and the re-instalment of the horrific Mohammad Reza Pahlavi as Shah. That, in turn, eventually led, after decades of US-condoned tyrannical and deadly authoritarian rule, to the Islamic Revolution in 1979.
https://www.npr.org/2019/01/31/690363402/how-the-cia-overthrew-irans-democracy-in-four-days
On Aug. 19, 2013, the CIA publicly admitted for the first time its involvement in the 1953 coup against Iran's elected Prime Minister Mohammad Mossadegh.
The documents provided details of the CIA's plan at the time, which was led by senior officer Kermit Roosevelt Jr., the grandson of U.S. President Theodore Roosevelt. Over the course of four days in August 1953, Roosevelt would orchestrate not one, but two attempts to destabilize the government of Iran, forever changing the relationship between the country and the U.S. In this episode, we go back to retrace what happened in the inaugural episode of NPR's new history podcast, Throughline.
Mohammad Mossadegh was a beloved figure in Iran. During his tenure, he introduced a range of social and economic policies, the most significant being the nationalization of the Iranian oil industry. Great Britain had controlled Iran's oil for decades through the Anglo-Iranian Oil Co. After months of talks the prime minister broke off negotiations and denied the British any further involvement in Iran's oil industry. Britain then appealed to the United States for help, which eventually led the CIA to orchestrate the overthrow of Mossadegh and restore power to Mohammad Reza Pahlavi, the last Shah of Iran.
According to Stephen Kinzer, author of the book All the Shah's Men, Roosevelt quickly seized control of the Iranian press by buying them off with bribes and circulating anti-Mossadegh propaganda. He recruited allies among the Islamic clergy, and he convinced the shah that Mossadegh was a threat. The last step entailed a dramatic attempt to apprehend Mossadegh at his house in the middle of the night. But the coup failed. Mossadegh learned of it and fought back. The next morning, he announced victory over the radio.
Mossadegh thought he was in the clear, but Roosevelt hadn't given up. He orchestrated a second coup, which succeeded. Mossadegh was placed on trial and spent his life under house arrest. The shah returned to power and ruled for another 25 years until the 1979 Iranian Revolution. The 1953 coup was later invoked by students and the political class in Iran as a justification for overthrowing the shah.
snip
malaise
(269,054 posts)H2O Man
(73,559 posts)While my watching soccer was limited to my daughters in school sports, I do think that the US policy towards Iran is wrong.
BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)want to leave this country, move somewhere else.
Then someone brings up a game and some of the same posters are all "USA USA yeah!"
MarineCombatEngineer
(12,399 posts)I've been very clear about not leaving my country to the MAGAt's, I've said in the past that I will stay and defend my country against the repuke tyranny,
BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)There are others who seem to change with the wind, ya know?
MarineCombatEngineer
(12,399 posts)BradAllison
(1,879 posts)Even in the least bit.
BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)You'll never see me be all "USA USA!" ever.
As I said elsewhere in this thread, Brad, I have a dual citizenship, so I'm usually rooting against one of them. USA frequently is the one I don't root for - Wales first, England second. USA runs a poor third.
So where is the dishonesty Brad? Huh?
MarineCombatEngineer
(12,399 posts)BlackSkimmer has been very honest about where he/she stands.
BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)Brad frequently shows up and makes insinuations about me.
I don't always go along with the crowd here, but I've been a member since 2005, and my Democratic bona fides don't need proving to this individual lol.
Somewhere along the way I must have hurt his feelings, I guess. I don't remember it at all.
treestar
(82,383 posts)The desire to move somewhere else is never directed at Iran. That's a place you flee from, not to.
BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)A beautiful country that sadly, in all my travels, I'll never visit.
A shame.
MarineCombatEngineer
(12,399 posts)the Iranian people are some of the most generous people and the country is absolutely beautiful.
sarisataka
(18,663 posts)Nothing
Ok, maybe they will be scolded for not showing enough loyalty, but that's it.
Iran does not have a history of punishing athletes who do not do well enough. In addition, we are not talking about just some group of kids who decided to sign up for some tournament. These players are international stars. 2/3 of them play on teams outside Iran. The publicity they get is worth more than the embarrassment of not singing loudly enough.
As others have said, they have already achieved their goal in bringing attention to the protests in their country. Advancing one more round will not add or subtract anything from what they have done.
TheProle
(2,179 posts)The families of Irans World Cup soccer team have been threatened with imprisonment and torture if the players fail to behave ahead of the match against the USA on Tuesday, a source involved in the security of the games said.
Following the refusal of Iranian players to sing the nations national anthem in their opening match against England on November 21, the source said that the players were called to a meeting with members of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC).
The source said that they were told that their families would face violence and and torture if they did not sing the national anthem or if they joined any political protest against the Tehran regime.
The players sang the anthem before their second game against Wales last Friday, which saw 2-0 victory for Iran.
The source, who is closely monitoring Irans security agencies operating in Qatar over the World Cup period, said that dozens of officers from the IRGC had been drafted in to monitor the Iranian players who are not allowed to mingle outside the squad or meet with foreigners.
https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/28/football/iran-soccer-family-threats-intl-spt/index.html
sarisataka
(18,663 posts)To behave -or else. They are behaving and unless they do something blatant to embarrass Iranian leadership it is done.
Winning or losing is irrelevant to how they will be treated. Saying they will be tortured and/or killed unless they win is pure fantasy.
BradAllison
(1,879 posts)Take the knee, and be on your way.....sorry the douchebag reporter didn't get to lord it over the "foolish American African" guy.
BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)Tsk tsk.
BradAllison
(1,879 posts)I expect as much from you. Bye bye I guess.
Just hope you know you do not fool anyone.
BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)I've been a member of this site for getting on 20 years.
So take your accusations elsewhere, Brad.
treestar
(82,383 posts)root for their team. Friendly rivalry. Plus they are not the only team from a repressive country. Including the one from where the games are.
nini
(16,672 posts)losing to the US won't change the reception they get when they get home. Winning will simply delay that.
Cyrano
(15,041 posts)Would you do that? These are courageous people. And they're doing it for one reason. They want what we all want. Freedom.
MarineCombatEngineer
(12,399 posts)How would Iran winning over the US make things better in Iran?
nini
(16,672 posts)I just don't think losing a soccer game will make much more of a difference.
jimfields33
(15,823 posts)MarineCombatEngineer
(12,399 posts)Marcus IM
(2,209 posts)FakeNoose
(32,645 posts)They can go to Turkey or Egypt, or even Israel - where they won't be murdered for speaking out against their government when they had the chance.
Locutusofborg
(525 posts)USA, USA, USA!
treestar
(82,383 posts)It's the same whether they win or not.
It's just to play a game, not politics. These and the likes of the Olympics should not be held if they are going to be about politics.
BradAllison
(1,879 posts)I want to kick that stupid state mouthpiece reporter lecturing a black man in the nuts. Fuck him.
Tommy Carcetti
(43,182 posts)...and given that fact, I basically can't see myself getting invested in a sport that features 0-0 ties.
I just can't get excited about soccer. And yes, some people insist baseball is boring and I will defend baseball to the death that it is anything but boring, that it is the most unique and intricate team sport there is...but soccer? Meh.
One of the few "Ugly American" stereotypes I admittedly fall victim to. (Our recalcitrance against the metric system is probably the other.)
Somebody will win the World Cup. It won't be us. Good for whoever does win, but I doubt I'll be able to remember who that is within a month of it happening.
BradAllison
(1,879 posts)I'll be watching anything but.
Tommy Carcetti
(43,182 posts)...I do enjoy Ted Lasso.
That's probably as invested in soccer as I'll ever get.
OAITW r.2.0
(24,504 posts)Seems like, when a team gets into the opponents side of the field, the ball gets kicked back into their zone...And when you have a clear view of the goal, why not chip the ball up for some chaos in the box? Seems like there'd be better opportunities when you boot the ball up in the air and drive in to create shots on goal. Too much defensive play and not a lot of offensive plays.
brooklynite
(94,598 posts)Football is game where you kick the ball with your foot.
Ilsa
(61,695 posts)No doubt, threats were made against some players' loved ones at home.
The players appear to have great sportsmanship. They compete, but have shown kindness toward each other on the pitch.
Mossfern
(2,513 posts)malaise
(269,054 posts)Full time USA 1 Iran 0
Theyre both heading home shortly
beaglelover
(3,486 posts)brooklynite
(94,598 posts)I havent seen any sign of their rebellion.
And I havent seen any indication that many Americans are supporting them, other than your personal assertion.
Tarc
(10,476 posts)Most if not all people here in the DU want a free Iran, liberated from a regressive, 8th-centruy brand of religious fanaticism.
That doesn't mean sacrificing our national soccer team, men who have worked towards this moment for 4 goddamn years.
Wise up.
Celerity
(43,409 posts)Fédération Internationale de Football Association.
I grew up in London, England is my team, over Sweden and over the US (I do not follow the US football team as a fan at all, but I was hoping they would beat Iran for the overall good of the sport on the US).
The Netherlands will likely knock out the US in the next round, especially if Pulisic cannot play (he was injured scoring the winning goal during the Iran game). He is made of glass, he plays for the main club team I support, Chelsea (I grew in west London, a mile or so away from Stamford Bridge, and my father has been a season ticket holder since the 1990s), in the EPL, and he is constantly injured. I so hope we sell him, as he is very non productive as well. a massive (almost £60m just for the transfer fee) bust that I was against buying from the beginning. We did it as marketing ploy for the US market, our chairman at the time (Bruce Buck, an American) admitted as much.
brooklynite
(94,598 posts)Celerity
(43,409 posts)perhaps out for months for us (hardly surprising as a Chels fangirl, like I said above, he is made of glass).
Christian Pulisic taken to hospital with abdominal injury after sending USMNT through
https://theathletic.com/3949993/2022/11/29/christian-pulisic-injury/
Christian Pulisic has been taken to hospital with an abdominal injury after hurting himself scoring the winning goal of the game for the United States against Iran.
Pulisic, 24, turned AC Milan defender Sergino Dests header over the line seven minutes before half-time to send the United States into the round of 16, where they will play the Netherlands.
But the Chelsea forward injured himself in the act of scoring and required several minutes of medical treatment before the half-time break.
He was then withdrawn at the interval. After the game, a United States Soccer Federation spokesperson told The Athletic Pulisic had been taken to a local hospital with an abdominal injury.
snip
Response to brooklynite (Reply #102)
Celerity This message was self-deleted by its author.
brooklynite
(94,598 posts)muriel_volestrangler
(101,321 posts)...
When the match was lost, the Iranian journalist Masih Alinejad posted videos of celebrations on Twitter, writing: Iran is a country where people are very passionate about football. Now they are out in the streets in the city of Sanandaj and celebrate the loss of their football team against US. She also posted a video of fireworks being let off in Saqqez, Mahsa Aminis home town.
Link to tweet
In 2019, Iranian women were allowed to enter a football stadium for the first time in 40 years, but have been permitted to attend only a handful of national matches since, according to Al Jazeera.
The Islamic Republic banned women from entering stadiums for 40 years and now people are chanting woman, life, freedom to celebrate being booted out of the World Cup, Alinejad wrote above a video from Kermanshah in western Iran.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/nov/30/footage-shows-group-of-iranian-fans-celebrating-world-cup-exit
Link to tweet
Link to tweet
Link to tweet
That's the problem with trying to politicize a football team - your idea about the team may not match the people you're hoping to support.
Renew Deal
(81,861 posts)The team has not been in open rebellion with the federation or the country. They have done nothing but not sing the national anthem in the first game. The coach defended the country when they perceived disrespect from the US. The families of the players were threatened. The only useful purpose for the team was to the benefit of the government. Bread and circuses
For example: https://www.democraticunderground.com/100217420973
I suspect youd want the US to lose no matter the opponent. There is always a convenient reason.
MarineCombatEngineer
(12,399 posts)that should tell you something.