General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsMusk says Twitter will suspend Kanye West's account
Link to tweet
https://www.reuters.com/technology/musk-says-twitter-will-suspend-kanye-wests-account-2022-12-02/
Solly Mack
(90,758 posts)And, yes, I do know the origins of the phrase.
DemocraticPatriot
(4,310 posts)I don't know what it is...
Solly Mack
(90,758 posts)Those who adhered to the crown lived inside borders marked with stakes - those stakes were called pales.
If you lived beyond the pales, you lived outside British rule and law, which meant to the British, you were living outside acceptable behavior.
Now, dropping all the baggage, it simply means acting in a way that is beyond what is decent and acceptable.
DemocraticPatriot
(4,310 posts)for the ancient reference !
Solly Mack
(90,758 posts)later in Russia, the Pale for Jewish people. Where they were allowed to live to keep them away from "real" Russian people.
Catherine meant it as an insult to Jewish people, like the Brits meant it to the Irish (you know, heathens and uncivilized). A means of isolation for Jewish people.
But fuck their hate and bigotry.
Cha
(296,848 posts)you Explanation.
Solly Mack
(90,758 posts)I recall the Norman invasion being the earliest but that could be wrong.
You're welcome, Cha.
Celerity
(43,108 posts)First, the dates of the Anglo-Norman invasion of Ireland
Start date: May 1, 1169
End date: 1171
Now......
https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/beyond_the_pale
According to the Oxford English Dictionary, there is insufficient evidence that the term originally referred to the English Pale, the part of Ireland directly under the control of the English government in the Late Middle Ages; or to the Pale of Settlement which existed from 1791 to 1917 in the Russian Empire, where Jewish people were mostly relegated to living.
https://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/beyond-the-pale.html
The phrase itself originated later than that. The first printed reference comes from 1657 in John Harington's lyric poem The History of Polindor and Flostella. In that work, the character Ortheris withdraws with his beloved to a country lodge for 'quiet, calm and ease', but they later venture further:
"Both Dove-like roved forth beyond the pale to planted Myrtle-walk".
Such recklessness rarely meets with a good end in 17th century verse and before long the lovers are attacked by armed men with 'many a dire killing thrust'. The message is clear - 'if there is a pale, decent people stay inside it', which conveys exactly the figurative meaning of the phrase as it is used today.
As a correspondent has helpfully pointed out, although Harington's poem was published in 1657, he died in 1612. That date, and most probably some years earlier, has to be the 'not later than' date for the origin of 'beyond the pale'.
https://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-pal2.htm
In particular, the term was used to describe various defended enclosures of territory inside other countries. For example, the English pale in France in the fourteenth century was the territory of Calais, the last English possession in that country. The best-known example is the Russian Pale, between 1791 and the Revolution of 1917, which were specified provinces and districts within which Russian Jews were required to live.
Another famous one is the Pale in Ireland, the part of the country which England directly controlled it varied from time to time, but was an area of several counties centred on Dublin. The first mention of the Irish Pale is in a document of 14467. Though there was an attempt later in the century to enclose the Pale by a bank and ditch (which was never completed), there never was a literal fence around it. The expression has often been claimed to originate in one or other of these pales, most often the Irish one, but the earliest appearance of 1720 for beyond the pale is very late if its linked to the Irish one and much too early for the Russian one.
The earliest figurative sense thats linked to the idiom was of a sphere of activity or interest, a branch of study or a body of knowledge, which comes from the same idea of an enclosed or contained area; we use field in much the same way. This turned up first in 1483 in one of the earliest printed books in English, The Golden Legende, a translation by William Caxton of a French work. This is a much later example:
By its conversion England was first brought, not only within the pale of the Christian Church, but within the pale of the general political society of Europe.
The History of the Norman Conquest, by Ernest A Freeman, 1867.
Our sense seems part to have grown out of this, since people who exist outside such a conceptual pale are not our kind and do not share our values, beliefs or customs.
Solly Mack
(90,758 posts)Celerity
(43,108 posts)Hamlette
(15,408 posts)Polybius
(15,335 posts)I saw that and thought there was something else given the "incite violence" statement.
krkaufman
(13,433 posts)I expect that Musk is using incitement to violence as cover for booting West for his repeated anti-Semitic posts as banning West simply for the rampant anti-Semitism would be hypocritical given Musks free speech b-s; and Musk would also then have to defend NOT banning all the rest who are saying the same stuff, just with a lesser profile than West.
Grokenstein
(5,721 posts)This is Otto from Monty Python's The Life of Brian (Eric Idle):
But even Python knew this was a bit...much:
...The controversies also affected the film content. Originally there was a recurring character, called Otto the Nazirene, who, with his squad of professional suicide warriors, was seeking his prophesied leader, and striving to keep the Jewish race pure. But, alas, he and his brave troupe was left on the cutting room floor, and the iconic Swastika of David that adorned his helmet, was never to be seen on the big screen. All we see of them in the final movie is the suicide squad that promptly kills itself in its attempt to rescue Brian from the cross. -- "A Tenth-Rate Movie," 2014 article (it's actually pro-Brian, and Otto's full role is now found in the Deleted Scenes of Brian's Blu-ray.)
DemocraticPatriot
(4,310 posts)LOL
Initech
(100,040 posts)Carlitos Brigante
(26,494 posts)photo of Musk looking like a marshmallow on a boat.
Link to tweet
?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
SunSeeker
(51,513 posts)I mean, if Elon really cared about stopping incitement to violence, he would not have reversed Trump's ban, because Trump is still spouting the same Big Lie that incited January 6.
But Eloon sure has a tender little ego for megalomaniac.
Cha
(296,848 posts)sense! TY
Grokenstein
(5,721 posts)Hide that shit behind a warning, dude /s
Eugene
(61,819 posts)https://www.huffpost.com/entry/kanye-west-alex-jones-twitter-account_n_638931d3e4b006e9b855b50f
oioioi
(1,127 posts)Grokenstein
(5,721 posts)A great comic and now I have a new bookmark
orleans
(34,040 posts)they're like 13 yr olds in a bizarre circle jerk with their phones, letting others touch their phones, showing naughty pics, ick!
BigmanPigman
(51,567 posts)because it is so accurate.
catbyte
(34,336 posts)Can you imagine how Germany would react? That's illegal as hell there.
Response to NYC Liberal (Original post)
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Better Days Ahoy
(698 posts)First smart thing muskrat has done with Twitter
marble falls
(57,013 posts)... the rest of your pigpen, Elon!