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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsAbout the efforts to destroy Planned Parenthood. . .two OP's I just read
made an interesting connection in my mind (before caffeine, so who knows how valid??) The first (ck4829) was about the fact that American health care is the most expensive in the world, with some of the worst outcomes. The thread contains much insightful commentary about profits rather than health care, and putting good care out of reach for many. The second was from Kath2 about how PlP was her source for health care for years (as we know, abortions are only about 3% of the care that PP provides).
So it suddenly made me wonder if the attacks on PP, the attempts to destroy it, are, at the base, fanned and fostered by the for-profit system, using the religious whackjobs as a distraction. After all, we cannot have the slaves have access to affordable, quality care.
Is it just me? Is is obvious and I just missed it? Or do I need more caffeine?
Biophilic
(3,644 posts)But how Fing greedy are they? It seems like its never enough when it comes to profits.
barbtries
(28,787 posts)there is no limit to it. they don't care who else suffers for it.
barbtries
(28,787 posts)all i'm saying is that republicans hate women.
Lonestarblue
(9,967 posts)and have always been. So no I do not doubt that some insurers may be helping to fund attacks on clinics that serve the poor and those without health insurance. I wonder how many health insurers are members of ALEC and whether ALEC has influenced Republican state legislatures to defund health clinics.
The other health crisis thats about to hit in rural parts of the country is the closure of more rural hospitals. Covid money kept many of them going during the pandemic, but that money is drying up and many rural hospitals operate in the red. The Texas Tribune had an article this week about the likely closures of more hospitals in Texas. In addition, in red states that have banned abortion, some hospitals have chosen to close their obstetrics and pediatric wings, forcing women to travel many miles for care for themselves and their children. As hospitals cease these services, fewer doctors will be available. Some have already chosen to move from red states because of the abortion bans. Many states were already losing rural hospitals. Recent abortion bans are only making the problem worse.
https://www.modernhealthcare.com/opinion/rural-hospitals-closing-congress-chip-kahn-alan-morgan
GoneOffShore
(17,339 posts)For predatory capitalists.
calimary
(81,197 posts)ck4829
(35,042 posts)The for-profit system you mentioned wants the masses of people making mad dashes to the first low-pay, few-benefits job they can find.
All this and add demonizing public education: It's going to act as a depressing factor on wages and employee power.
No Planned Parenthood and no abortion or birth control - What do you think is more likely out of the following two? Not what WILL happen, but more likely?
Cures for cancer, hover cars, and go to the Moon and be back by supper time
OR
A whole lot of people who are hungry and need something, anything, just to keep a roof over their heads
2naSalit
(86,515 posts)And it's both.
Martin68
(22,781 posts)they might account for at most 15% to 20% of the efforts to destroy PIP. I believe most of the attacks stem from the right wing obsession with parental control of children (PIP will treat them without informing their parents), and their quasi-religious determination to eliminate abortion (an issue invented by right wing pollsters as a wedge issue to earn conservative votes).
Ford_Prefect
(7,876 posts)IMO they are so afraid of talking about or exploring sexuality beyond reproduction they want to make sure no one else can either. Hence their similar obsession with free speech as long as it's limited to topics and formats they approve of and NO ONE may ask uncomfortable questions.
onecaliberal
(32,816 posts)DFW
(54,335 posts)Nurses heal. Republicans want women to heel.
EXCERPT FROM THE OFFICIAL DICTIONARY OF REPUBLICANESE
In Republicanese, many words that sound alike may be spelled differently at random. A few prominent examples:
In Republicanese, the following words may be spelled at random using any of the three ways given:
A.) Two, Too, To
B.) Their, They're, There
c.) Your, Yore, You're
The Republicanese version of Robin Hood therefore starts with "In days of you're...."
onecaliberal
(32,816 posts)I know the difference, thanks.
On edit: I could never be accused of being a repuke. Read what I post. Not checking before I push the button, absolutely.
DFW
(54,335 posts)I'd never think someone on this board would make that mistake deliberately!
DFW
(54,335 posts)Warpy
(111,237 posts)whether or not they were part of the old south. They have relegated half their population to the status of livestock. I can't imagine why women are still there, but I've never shrunk from leaving everyone I knew to escape a bad situation. It's tough for a while, but it gets better. Slavery is never going to get any better.
You're right that the religious wackadoodles are driving it, Christianity has always strongly enforced a strong and absolutely toxic form of patriarchy, one of the many reasons I stomped off in sheer disgust. WWJD? Stomp off right next to me.
Congress, meanwhile, is sitting on its hands rather than trying to pass a bill ensuring women's access to healt care INCLUDING ABORTION, while they have the majority. I suppose even Democrats are loath to anger the preachers, the WIMPS.
Am I angry about this? You bet your ass I am. I will never stop being angry about this, even though I live in a strongly prochoice state and would never require abortion at my advanced age. I look at friends and their daughters and know they are at risk while Congress sells half the human population out by its inaction.
You know the first thing the Klown Kongress will do next January is pass a law banning women's health care nationwide.
Genki Hikari
(1,766 posts)Because they have family and a support system where they are. They won't have that in other states. It's not only the emotional bond, but the financial support that comes from sticking close to family. It's a lot cheaper, for instance, to have Mom or a cousin babysit than trying to find one for a night out that you probably won't know well--and will cost you quite a bit of money to retain on top of it.
Speaking of money, for way too many of them, they stay because it costs money to move. Lots of money. Money that most of them simply don't have. Are you going to provide them with not only the costs of moving their belongings, but also with providing a roof over their heads, feeding them, paying their bills and so on until they find a job that can enable them to afford living in a (probably) higher cost-of-living blue state?
No? Then wonder no more why they don't leave.
Your comment about the Democrats not trying to overcome the abortion issue is both false and dangerously close to abusing Democrats--a big no-no on this board. The House passed just such a bill; it's stalled in the Senate because there aren't enough D votes to overcome a filibuster.
https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/3755/text
You'd know that if you'd kept up.
So stop LYING about what Democrats have tried to do, and try--TRY--to keep up with reality.
jmowreader
(50,552 posts)The Very Religious Among Us believe sexual relations have one purpose, and one purpose only: to produce children.
Consider the Catholic Church, which believes the rhythm method is the only allowable form of birth control. The purpose of this method is not to allow sex for pleasure
it is so you can space out your children so you dont have two or three kids in diapers at the same time. If they thought they could get away with it they would tell their adherents not to have sex unless they were trying for a baby.
A very large part of Planned Parenthoods mission is to allow people to enjoy sex without worrying about pregnancy. To the Very Religious this is very bad. Hence, Planned Parenthood needs to be eliminated by any means necessary.
Genki Hikari
(1,766 posts)It's also about people not having sex so they can devote more of their life to the shared delusion--er, to church.
It's to get you to spend all your free time praying and having your butt in a pew. The more time you spend on that, the more likely they are to get not only more power and control over you, but also, more importantly, more money out of you.
Never, ever under-estimate that religion's unbridled lust for money and power. They've only been obsessed with acquiring unlimited amounts of both since Peter harangued Ananias and Sapphira to death (if not outright murdered them) for all of their money, rather than only part of it. It only got worse when they hooked up with Constantine for the power part of the equation.
One only needs to look at the filthy amounts of gold and silver dripping all over the Vatican, or several of their cathedrals around the world to prove that the case. Like this RC facility in Puebla, Mexico, where untold thousands died to produce the silver and gold that went into building such obscene monstrosities:
A bunch of Native Americans were literally worked to death to gild that obscenity--and worked to death with that very church's blessing.
Timeflyer
(1,991 posts)Without Planned Parenthood women loose a huge voice in the battle over control of our bodies. We won't go back!
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)Not that there's no truth to some of this, we all know there is, but that it's unbalanced and lacking a critical amount of further truth.
It would be very strange if healthcare corporations were trying to drive PP out of business to get its tiny share of its market. Profit margins in medical care are already quite low compared to other investment opportunities, and they're not exactly fighting to take largely un/under-insured patients away from non-profit do-gooders.
Also, any discussion about our healthcare system with a bottom-line takeaway that it has "some of the worst outcomes" in the world is either intentionally or whackadoodly misleading.
Grain of Truth: Yes, we do. Almost every nation can be said to have "some of the worst outcomes" in the world.
Other Truth: We have a good share of the best outcomes in the world. .
More Truth: That's the bottom line only in those hellholes that only have the worst outcomes in the world.
For some perspective, at least 40% of the people in Haiti have NO access to healthcare. Healthcare-wise, though, the other "60%" with at least some degree of healthcare make Haiti golden compared to Sierra Leone, ranked dead last on the WHO health systems performance index.
It can be hard to believe we all live on the same planet.
In 2000 the U.S. was ranked 37 out of 191 countries by WHO's criteria of performance. (Old, but still a very good overview. The last most comprehensive report with not a lot of controversy over criteria and methods.). We're 18 on a 2020 LPI ranking, which at least sounds better; China and India with most of the world's population are 54 and 101.
Just our unacceptably low numbers totally fail to put across that Americans nevertheless live in a very privileged world. Or that anyone who can put a coherent sentence together on social media should be able to arrange much better than whatever that number is today when needed -- like taking advantage of good, modern medical care being always available by consulting earlier rather than later.
24/7/365/lifelong availability is a BIG, BIG, BIG thing. Today 40% of member nations still have fewer than 10 doctors per 10,000 people.
Here's the WHO report, still very worth reading and goes good with the luxury of coffee in a safe, advanced nation. By a recent measure of advanced nations we're about #11, but never to forget that's at least among a highly privileged minority that excludes most of humanity.
https://www.who.int/news/item/07-02-2000-world-health-organization-assesses-the-world's-health-systems
ck4829
(35,042 posts)Last edited Sat Dec 3, 2022, 04:12 AM - Edit history (2)
How many Americans should put off medical attention because of the cost?
What are the acceptable numbers here?
We dont need comparisons to developing / global south countries, what is the cost/benefit? But if we are going to do cross-country comparisons; why those two and not
France, Germany, Israel, or South Korea?
Even if we were in the top 10 of healthcare systems, that still should not be acceptable. We should be number 1 and not in costliness.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)You're talking to someone who spent decades in debt due to medical bills left over after insurance paid out.
What we never did without, and the vast majority of Americans who insist on it also don't, is good, even high-class modern healthcare. Doing without that when it could be a matter of life and death is what terrifies.
When we take high costs out of the rating, costs that are mostly spread across society by insurance and government programs instead of falling on the shoulders of individuals, our healthcare rating -- what people really care about -- leaps up the scale substantially.
And imo it's very wrong to imagine that people don't need to understand the big picture when some are insidiously insisting their healthcare is all inadequacies and they're all victims. The perspective and the information that allow us to realize what we do have and still need are ABSOLUTELY imperative for making it happen. People won't fight to protect what they have if they've bought the lies that their medical care is about "terrible outcomes" and greedy corporations and should be destroyed.
I'm also someone who's voted Democratic to get good universal healthcare for over 50 years now. For shame for all those who claim to care but didn't vote every time for the one giant power group working to make it happen because they were too ignorant and/or deceived and defeated to join the battle. And that includes a whole pile of the people who fail to understand and appreciate the value of what we do have to protect and build on. Of course. Being lead into opposition by one's ideological nose is no excuse. Not when reality belying the deceits that feed truth-denying grievance is all around them.
Useful idiots is what the Russians call those they can trick into trashing what they need to protect. The Republicans typically smear us by calling them "Democrats," but by far most actual, voting Democrats are too smart for that. 81 million plus in 2020. Just imagine what we'd have now if it'd been 82 million in 2016.
Kath2
(3,074 posts)Capitalist for-profit "health" system using religious fanatic stooges as a distraction does not seem far-fetched to me.