rail strike averted ? with no sick days

[littlewolf]

Last edited Fri Dec 2, 2022, 10:00 PM - Edit history (2)

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/biden-signs-bill-aimed-at-averting-rail-strike-says-nation-avoided-catastrophe/ar-AA14PPAx?OCID=ansmsnnews11



Biden signs bill aimed at averting rail strike, vows to fight for sick leave
President Joe Biden on Friday signed legislation aimed at averting a nationwide rail strike while acknowledging that workers didn't get everything they wanted.

That agreement was later rejected by some worker unions because it didn't include days of paid sick leave.

But on Thursday, the Senate voted 80-to-15 to impose the agreement while subsequently voting down a bill passed by the House that would have provided workers with seven days of paid sick leave.

Six Republicans voted to add sick leave but the measure ultimately fell short of the 60 votes needed to pass. Some of those lawmakers joined five Democratic caucus members, including Sens. Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren, in voting against the bill forcing workers to accept the agreement.

so help me understand this ....
President Biden negotiated this plan... the union rejected it...
now congress (a democratic congress) is forcing the union to
not strike and accept this plan.. is this correct.

want to make sure I understand this...

I looked but didn't see anything about this today...it was on my "bing" latest news.

more at the link

[Jilly_in_VA]

1. I dunno

Everybody else has to take PTO days when they get sick, seems like. I did, my whole damn career. My husband still does. How many of y'all get dedicated paid sick days? Show of hands, please.

[littlewolf]

3. well

the first 20 years was military ... so there is that ...
the next 10 was state worker .. and we had paid sick time
then next 16 years DoD contractor ... PTO ...

[Lars39]

4. My husband does...they even join a sick bank,

where employees pool their sick days for catastrophes. Just because someone has none or a lousy amount of sick days doesn’t mean we can’t be humane and raise the standards.

[Xolodno]

7. Previous company was PTO.

Was there for over 20 years so I had a shit load every year (they converted to PTO when I was there for twelve years). Was only allowed to carry over five days though, which I thought was a bummer. What if something slams you in December and say you had to use three of those planned five carry over days? Not good.

Current job, I do get sick pay. When I took the offer, I didn't know they didn't just bank you your vacation all up front, had to literally earn every single hour....so the planned overseas trip got kicked down the road.

[Buckeyeblue]

10. I get 10 sick days. After covid all employers should have to provide paid sick time

Maybe Biden should have let them strike.

[Elessar Zappa]

11. Here.

Every job I’ve worked has had sick days.

[XanaDUer2]

20. We did

It was civil service. It was one good thing about the job. I don't remember the yearly amount

[WhiskeyGrinder]

22. Construction often doesn't, including union construction jobs.

[Demsrule86]

25. I had three per year at my last job.

We didn't have disability either.

[uponit7771]

39. I did

[Wingus Dingus]

53. My husband was a freight conductor for a few years--he did have to take PTO

for medical appointments and sick days (and they weren't super generous with them when you start out in the railroad--it's all about seniority and union agreements). He now works in a different industry and guess what--still has to take PTO for sick days and medical appointments. No dedicated sick days. It's pretty common. Edit to add: there seems to be a popular misconception that rail workers get no paid time off whatsoever, and that just isn't true.

[NickB79]

54. Teamster here. We have a points system

You can get 8 points a year before being fired. A full day missed is a point. A late punch, early out punch, or half day is 1/2 point. It applies to any reason: sick employee, sick kid so you can't come in, car problems, blizzard, hung over or still drunk (that's REALLY common), etc.

But, if you're out for more than two days sick, you can get subsequent days waived if you bring in a doctor's note. So missing a full week with the flu only costs two points as long as you see a doctor or even hit the urgent care clinic.

All of these are unpaid days off though, but we get paid almost $30/hr with plenty of OT, so no one is hurting for money in our facility.

[Horse with no Name]

61. I do

I have a bank for sick days, a bank for vacation days and a bank for holiday days. If you get over 260 hours of vacation time, the excess rolls to sick days.

[GoodRaisin]

64. We got nothing but our vacation and paid holidays.

Not only did we not get “sick days” or “PTO”, but if you called in sick you were expected to use vacation or make it up. Same if you had personal things to attend to.

Vacation was 2-4 weeks a year depending on your service

[BumRushDaShow]

2. There's a pesky law involved that essentially demands intervention

to ensure that interstate commerce can continue. From what I posted in another thread -

1926 Railway Labor Act

Codified Regulations - 45 USC Ch. 8: RAILWAY LABOR

Congress can create legislation that impacts labor law at any time they want but it's a matter of getting the votes to actually bring it to fruition.

Here is a good article about this - https://www.pbs.org/newshour/economy/why-congress-is-intervening-in-a-labor-dispute-between-railway-companies-and-freight-workers

If a strike were to occur, arbitration via the Presidential Emergency Board would ensue and since that board already proposed a solution earlier this summer, they would probably put forward the same one and it would be imposed (and that proposal was less generous, including in terms of healthcare benefits from what I gather).

Also this is something that needs to be addressed overall at the federal level -

Railroad workers aren’t the only Americans without paid sick days

By Tami Luhby, CNN
Published 8:28 AM EST, Thu December 1, 2022

New York CNN Business — As freight railroad workers look to Congress to provide them with paid sick days, millions of other American employees have no safety net if they fall ill.

The US does not have a national standard on paid sick leave, a rarity among industrialized nations. Roughly 1 in 5 civilian workers lack paid sick days, but the prevalence of the benefit varies widely by occupation and wage, according to federal data. Public sector workers, management and professional employees and higher-earning staffers are more likely to have access to paid sick days.

However, many others are not as fortunate. Roughly one-third of workers in service, construction, extraction and farming occupations don’t have paid sick days. About half of part-time workers lack the benefit, as do more than 40% of those in the lowest quarter of wage earners.

Overall, about 33 million workers have no paid sick days, according to Family Values @ Work Action, an advocacy organization.

(snip)

https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/01/success/railroad-workers-sick-days/index.html

I know here in Philly, ordinances were put in place for businesses operating in the city with over a certain number of employees, to provide a certain number of sick days (I remember watching the City Council hearings/public discussion on it). There are states (I think CA might be one) that have similar - probably with some kind of sliding scale depending on size of business.

[Hortensis]

33. Yup. Thanks for posting, Bum. Imo, at this point we NEED that law.

I worry that the planet's, and our nation's, supply chains and labor forces have not recovered and are still really rickety. Every time I go shopping I see evidence and am reminded that it's not over.

Today another shopper and I in our closest Kroger's commented to each other on a number of poor, limp and missing vegetables -- unheard of!

I believe that "it really could happen here" -- this "it" being serious economic depression and personal deprivation resulting from cascading collapses extending to all aspects of society. What the massive distributions of federal money and other resources to business and households in 2020 staved off here. Thank everything Democrats controlled federal policy at that time.

Even so, many among our wealthiest classes made out like bandits, and like mass killers, from the Covid holocaust, with enormous shift of national wealth to them. I'm forced to believe the unbelievable -- that those who'd do it before when their Republican agents controlled would do it again if we didn't stop their next opportunity.

[BlueTsunami2018]

5. It's a terrible look for the President.

And takes away a lot of his very real credibility as a pro-union President. Union members should vote on their contracts, not Congress. And if they wanted to strike, they should have been allowed to do so. That’s the fucking problem in this country, workers feel like they have no power because of shit like this. A rail strike would hurt the economy? So what? Let it, that’s the point. Workers have the ability to shut this country down completely and if they have to in order to get the respect they deserve, they should.

The primary reason I’m a Democrat is because of labor issues. It’s what I preach to all and sundry. Garbage moves like this make me and all of us who tout the Democratic Party as the party of labor look like fools. And it makes the “two wings of the same bird” people look right.

It’s very disappointing.

[BumRushDaShow]

6. There's a law that requires it

See above - https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=17428502

Please no more of this -



Democrats in the House and Senate (save for Manchin) voted FOR sick leave and most Republicans voted AGAINST it.

REPUBLICANS are to blame, NOT Democrats.

[Demsrule86]

31. That is so true...great chart...

[betsuni]

37. +1

[former9thward]

43. The law does not require it.

The law allows intervention by the federal government but it does not require it. The agreement negotiated by Biden in September did not have sick leave. The House could have put sick leave into their bill instead of two separate bills which guaranteed failure.

[karynnj]

47. I assume that Pelosi knew what would happen if it were one or two bills

I assume she knew that there was a very significant chance of a combined bill failing. I agree that it was likely seen as impossible to get 60 votes on just sick leave. It does very clearly show where the problem is.

It seems there are several ways companies handle sick time. I am old enough that when I started at Bell Labs, the AT&T policy was you were paid when you called in sick. Period - no specified number until it became a disability. It had nothing to do with vacation time. We did have some personal days and some floating holidays.

Personally, this makes more sense to me. When you are sick, you stay home, get better and avoid spreading whatever it is. In addition, you have vacation time you can count on and plan for. Putting them in one pot, seems to lead to someone who experienced a serious illness losing out on any vacation time at a point they most need it.

[BumRushDaShow]

49. The law requires intervention

when it is explicitly declared (as it was here) that a job action will -

“substantially to interrupt interstate commerce to a degree such as to deprive any section of the country of essential transportation service.”

Per this - 45 USC Ch. 8: RAILWAY LABOR

§160. Emergency board

If a dispute between a carrier and its employees be not adjusted under the foregoing provisions of this chapter and should, in the judgment of the Mediation Board, threaten substantially to interrupt interstate commerce to a degree such as to deprive any section of the country of essential transportation service, the Mediation Board shall notify the President, who may thereupon, in his discretion, create a board to investigate and report respecting such dispute. Such board shall be composed of such number of persons as to the President may seem desirable: Provided, however, That no member appointed shall be pecuniarily or otherwise interested in any organization of employees or any carrier. The compensation of the members of any such board shall be fixed by the President. Such board shall be created separately in each instance and it shall investigate promptly the facts as to the dispute and make a report thereon to the President within thirty days from the date of its creation.

There is authorized to be appropriated such sums as may be necessary for the expenses of such board, including the compensation and the necessary traveling expenses and expenses actually incurred for subsistence, of the members of the board. All expenditures of the board shall be allowed and paid on the presentation of itemized vouchers therefor approved by the chairman.

After the creation of such board and for thirty days after such board has made its report to the President, no change, except by agreement, shall be made by the parties to the controversy in the conditions out of which the dispute arose.

(May 20, 1926, ch. 347, §10, 44 Stat. 586; June 21, 1934, ch. 691, §7, 48 Stat. 1197.)

meaning the arbitration by a Presidential Emergency Board as a step prior to the explicit legislation that was done, which is part of the law.

A combined version of the 2 pieces of legislation passed by the House would be guaranteed to be DOA in the Senate had it not arrived as the separate bills.

The sick leave bill was designed to be "a correction" to the main bill once it reached the Senate but was voted on separately as a part of the amendment process, along with another amendment from Dan Sullivan (R-AK) that would have added another 60 day extension to the contracts for further negotiations (and that failed).

That separate bill is this -

H.Con.Res.119 - Providing for a correction in the enrollment of H.J. Res. 100.

and it barely passed the House 221-207, garnering only 3 GOP votes there.

I.e., there is this amnesia about cloture and 60 votes needed for legislation to proceed.

The standalone would have passed in the Senate absent the cloture Rule as it got 52 votes, but with cloture, it needed 8 more GOP votes to reach 60.

So what would have most likely happened once it died in the Senate as a combined bill, would have meant an extra step by the Senate to craft language to remove the provision, vote on that revised version "as a substitute", and then it would have been sent back to the House for another vote before going to the President.

[David__77]

44. It was not required.

It was allowed.

[Demsrule86]

27. There was no choice. And Biden was right. We need to work on getting it for everyone.

It wasn't Biden's fault that Republicans suck.

[OAITW r.2.0]

8. Place the blame with Republicans who voted against adding the amendment.

Sorry, we can't blow up the economy because Republicans are douchebags.

[Celerity]

55. and Manchin

Six Republicans voted for the sick leave measure: Sens. Mike Braun (Ind.), Ted Cruz (Texas), Lindsey Graham (S.C.), Josh Hawley (Mo.), John Kennedy (La.) and Marco Rubio (Fla.).

Sen. Joe Manchin (W.Va.) was the only Democrat to vote against the bill.

https://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_votes/vote1172/vote_117_2_00371.htm#position

[OAITW r.2.0]

57. I think of Joe as a honorary Republican.

I wonder if he'll make the switch after Warnock is elected Senator?

[Celerity]

59. if he did switch, then he super fucks us, as we are back to power sharing on committees

Of course that is provided that Warnock wins.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

9. If rail companies and rail unions can't come to an agreement, there's a process they're required to

follow under the Railway Labor Agreement. That process includes a presidential board trying to find a compromise -- which Biden and others did in September -- and then the unions (note: multiple) vote on that contract. Some accepted it, some rejected it. So Congress is then allowed to impose the contract, which they've done. If the unions strike now, it will be a wildcat strike.

[littlewolf]

12. what happens they send in the pinkertons ?

or start dragging people off to jail ...

[WhiskeyGrinder]

13. Then union members will go to jail and unions will be fined and a lot of people will be fine with it

because god forbid ThE EcOnOmY hiccup once or twice.

[littlewolf]

14. and the campaign ads write themselves. nt

[WhiskeyGrinder]

15. Yep. And I think we're all familiar with how well "this is ACTUALLY the Republicans' fault!" works.

[littlewolf]

16. Ding Ding Ding ... thread winner ... nt

[Demsrule86]

28. It is the GOP's fault.

Blaming Biden is just plain wrong.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

34. Biden named the PEB that crafted this deal. He touted the TA despite knowing that it was only that,

tentative, and even though he knew it didn't contain one of the most important things unions were bargaining for. He asked Congress to impose the TA. He knew the Senate wouldn't agree to adding paid sick days. I'm not blaming Biden; I'm acknowledging that selling his lack of culpability is going to be a pain in the ass come 2024.

[BannonsLiver]

48. It's a treasured, joyous pastime for some here.

[Prairie_Seagull]

17. Since the House and the Senate passed drastically differnt bills,

won't there be a reconciliation bill?

[littlewolf]

18. from what I understand ... A bill has been signed so ....

it might be the bill that the President negotiated...

[WhiskeyGrinder]

19. No, the legislative part is over. There weren't different bills.

The main bill was "force the contract on the workers." It passed, Biden signed it.

[Bettie]

21. Every job I've worked has had sick days

except for a fast food place in college.

[Demsrule86]

30. When I was a teacher, we did not take sick days...I think we had three. I know of several

teachers that got required medical care in the summer...knee replacement and such. This country does not treat workers well sadly. You were just plain lucky. I was a researcher, worked as a teacher in High school, and worked in an accounting office...we had almost no sick days in any of those jobs. My daughter recently tore her meniscus. The company she worked for refused her disability claim and fired her.

[jcgoldie]

38. bullshit

I'm a teacher. We get 14. A year. If you don't use them they accumulate. Thats why you belong to a fucking union. Don't sugarcoat this shit.

[Demsrule86]

50. First of all, we did not. This is some years ago. I taught last in Georgia who didn't even have

Last edited Sat Dec 3, 2022, 01:43 PM - Edit history (1)

Teacher unions. I resigned because my boss wanted me to show standardized tests to students illegally, wanted me to 'lean on 14 years old to quit school so as to improve test scores, and wanted me to pass kids who failed miserably. When the FBI came a calling I faced no charges but my boss did. You don't even know where else I taught or any of the circumstances.

So I suggest you count your lucky stars and stop trying to blame Democrats for this...I can assure you many Americans don't have sick days. It is a national issue and a train strike had to be averted. I don't appreciate being called a liar either. Republicans did this. What makes you so eager to blame Democrats? Oh, and if you are wondering... had I gone to the media as I wished to, my license would have been pulled-per an agreement when I resigned. With no union backing, I went into business where I had three sick days also, but I had a boss who allowed us to make up time and offered to comp overtime which could be used when I was sick.

[jcgoldie]

60. I'm not blaming democrats

I'm also not going to delude myself into saying "oh gosh its ok because a lot of folks don't get sick days." Fuck that premise which you tried to advance here.

[Jilly_in_VA]

51. Maybe in your state

Ever worked int a "right to slave" state? I didn't think so.

[W_HAMILTON]

36. I'm a professional and I didn't get paid sick days at my former firm.

They just issued PTO (generalized paid time off) and you could use it for however you wanted: a personal day, a vacation day, a sick day, etc.

I would think that's what many companies -- even those that offer generous benefits -- are moving towards nowadays so you aren't required to document that you were actually sick if you use a sick day etc.

[Bettie]

40. Doesn't that also make people more likely to

come into work sick, so that they can use their time off for things they want to do?

At the place I worked the longest, there were 12 sick days, 5 personal days, and then two weeks of vacation. It was a really good place to work, even with the usual annoyances.

Heck, they even gave us free lunch every day. From what I hear, it isn't like that anymore.

[Demsrule86]

58. You were fortunate. Such benefits are few and far between these days. GM sent us

our insurance info for retired...we don't use it of course way too expensive...600 per month for an individual. And salaried gets not much better...$7000 has to be spent before they pay a dime.

[W_HAMILTON]

62. Not from what I've seen.

I mean, let's say seven days of personal days + seven days of sick days, or 14 days of PTO -- it all equals out in the end.

Speaking personally, I unfortunately wasn't exactly in the best of health at the time and had other family affairs that often resulted in me having sudden absences, so most of my PTO was used for that anyway (rather than actual vacation). And not having sick days or having just generalized PTO days didn't mean you couldn't miss work due to illness; it just meant that it would not be a paid absence. In my case, though, I was always paid my normal salary, and I would just go "into the negative" with my PTO, which I either had to build back up through time or had to reimburse at the end of my employment there (which was what actually ended up happening).

[Javaman]

23. The strike isn't averted, it's just delayed

Anyone thinks that there won’t be some sort of strike is delusional

[lapucelle]

24. No, that is not correct.N/T

[Jilly_in_VA]

26. I worked in healthcare

and NO JOB I ever had gave us paid sick days. NONE. How about that, sports fans? Didn't matter whether I was working for a non-profit or a for profit like HCA, they made us use PTO if we got sick. Screw that.

[Elessar Zappa]

32. I worked in a state-run nursing home in New Mexico for several years.

We had good insurance, 15 sick days and 15 vacation days. I don’t know if we got good benefits because it was state-run or what. I considered myself very lucky. Everyone in this country should have paid time off.

[W_HAMILTON]

35. Eight of the 12 unions ratified this deal.

And even though the actual union member votes have not yet been fully released (from what I've seen, only certain unions have done so), it is highly likely that a majority of the union members are actually in favor of this deal. It results in raises of 24%, additional bonuses -- with average payouts being anywhere from $11,000 to upwards of $20,000 from various reports that I've read, since the deal is retroactive -- and it provides improved health benefits and additional paid personal time off.

Given the choice between that and being forced to go on a strike that (odds are) most actual union members did not want to go on, especially right before the holidays, I'm sure that many union members are actually pleased with this outcome. Of course, they would be even more pleased had Republicans not obstructed providing them with the paid sick days that every Democrat (aside from Manchin) was in favor of...

[Bettie]

41. I was thinking about the few Republicans who voted for the sick leave

of course they did, they knew it wouldn't pass because of the filibuster, so they could vote for it to get their "blue collar workers" badge, knowing that it would never pass, so they get an "oligarch helper" badge too!

[mn9driver]

45. Unions don't vote. Union members vote.

And fewer than half of the members of all of the unions voted to accept this agreement.

[W_HAMILTON]

63. Cite your source.

Because the actual numbers that I've seen, I haven't seen that to be the case.

The unions that did ratify the deal, total union membership was around 50% of total union members, but some of the approval votes (which were released) was upwards of 60% (from one of the unions who released the voting data).

Among the other ~50% that did not ratify it, I have not seen votes released, so that means that while a majority (of these non-ratifying unions) did not support the deal, we don't know what the actual percentage breakdown was (at least not from any news I had read, up through a day or so ago).

If you have an actual breakdown of the total union vote across all 12 unions, please share.

EDIT: And, actually, in this case, unions do vote, since even if a majority of all union members voted to ratify, but one of the unions did not, the union agreement would result in all 12 unions going on strike.

[honest.abe]

42. Sick days are not a given in this country.

My wife who is a professional engineer with a Master's degree and 15 years experience does not have sick days.. just 15 days PTO.

[JT45242]

46. Complicated...

If rail shuts down it is devastating to the country.
Congress has stepped in before to prevent rail strikes...several times.

Wage increases are fair and well deserved. The workers also get a cash bonusm

The no sick days is because the overwhelming number of rethugs in both houses if Congress who voted against it.

The government can continue to work towards helping the union get sick days, but this will prevent a strike.

The dark money bought enough senators to vote no on sick days. This is another effect of citizens united.

[ripcord]

52. I'm still trying to figure one thing out

Why did the board our President appointed side with the railroads over the unions when it came to sick leave? The railroads are even exempt from the law in California requiring all workers get 3 sick days a year, must be nice to be so entitled.

[AntivaxHunters]

56. Postal Workers Union weighs in

Link to tweet

?s=20&t=J362hyocUg05036w6rek7A