On DU's population aging, and change to DU...

[Hekate]

Rumination inspired by Atticus’ thread https://www.democraticunderground.com/100217582951
There’s something in the air. It wasn’t the first time I saw mention of how DU’s population is “older” and that is what Atticus was reacting to — I certainly have also seen a few posts over the past year or two that “boomers” somehow abetted the rise of the oligarchs, voted for Trump, and shit like that. It’s a good long thread he started.

Someone made the point about the age group when DU started as “skewing younger,” and I agree. Hello? That was us! I think of us then as people in “robust middle age” — a rather elastic term, as I was already 50.

When I got here in 2002 I found a cohort of people who were already activists from their youth. Most of us had a lot of experience already, when it came to resistance and working for real change. We were outraged by BushCheney and were only too glad to share with others (ie younger posters) how to create a movement for change. We’d already participated in all the major change movements of the second half of the 20th century

I also found people who could write intelligibly, and carry a thought from beginning to end. I found people who insisted on reliable sources. I found people whose opinions I could respect because those opinions were well grounded, and people I could do battle with, too. I found a community that insisted there be no bigotry — including no misogyny, which is a toxic element in too much of the web.

“Robust middle age.” I miss it. Of course DU skewed younger 22 years ago. We were those people.

And we do need to attract a younger cohort as we go along — for who are we without metaphorical descendants, and for whom else have we done this lifetime of work? But we need to hold fast to the principles on which DU was founded (the TOS as set down by the three founders —our Constitution, if you will — and the way they/we have evolved the TOS for the betterment of the community — a living Constitution, if you will).

I don’t know exactly how that is to be done, just that it does.

Thank you all.




***

[GreenWave]

1. maybe someone will show us how to reverse age ourselves.

Then when we will all be teenagers again (ugh pimples!) someone will show how to age again etc.

[Prairie_Seagull]

32. You have to use the warp reactor, duh.

[NullTuples]

80. I thought it was a transporter accident?

(ST:TNG "Rascals&quot

[Aristus]

2. I joined DU a few days after my thirty-second birthday.

That was already 'old' to anyone under twenty-five at the time. I'm fifty-four now, and don't feel old.

[panader0]

5. I was 54 when I joined---almost 18 years ago now. Senior citizen discounts, etc....

[druidity33]

11. Same here. I'm fifty two now... but I DO feel old.

[SWBTATTReg]

3. Well, the repugs/republicans have turned off the younger generation in record numbers. We,

as democrats have a golden opportunity to embrace the younger generations and have them join us in our daily struggles for all rights. And I do find that most of the younger generations do want the numerous civil rights, voting rights, etc. that were fought for so long and hard for by many, including many here on DU.

Thanks for your help in paving the way for a lot of us.

[BlueLucy]

4. I'm 54 here. nt

[NewHendoLib]

6. Wow. I was 47 when I joined. My older daughter is now 41.

Time flies.

[progressoid]

7. I think one of the issues to address is whether we treat today's youth with the same animosity that

we received when we were young.

[malaise]

8. Excellent post

renewal is mandatory for continuance

[Celerity]

87. It isn't happening on DU. There are almost no active posters under 30, and even

taking it out to under 40 hardly yields a large group.

The cultural gap is too wide here to overcome IMHO. I have seen things like the fall of the Berlin Wall referred to as a recent event despite it happening 7 years before I, as a late Millennial, was even born. Grunge (yes grunge!) music from 30 years ago called new-fangled, lol.

This is definitely not the most youth engaging environment IMHO. I myself have grown steadily more weary of it all, especially after the student loan relief threads sprung to life.

[Sympthsical]

9. It's a very simple observation

And I'll use an easy example. Note the hostility to Bernie Sanders and people like AOC or the Squad, etc. I mean the absolute off-the-walls hostility where even inconsequential statements or mild criticisms by them can go completely off the rails into dozens of ragingly hostile responses.

Now understand that those figures in our party (and party adjacent) are overwhelmingly supported by people 45 and younger. No one else in the party generates that kind of enthusiasm or support. It isn't even kind of close.

That's where younger people are. And that is anathema to a lot of people in the space. Has anyone ever looked at a student loan thread? Holy shit, why does everyone sound like my Republican grandfather all of a sudden? And look, it is what is. I know I'm cheese stands alone in a lot of what I say and think here. I think it'd be boring to agree all the time.

It isn't helpful when self-awareness just lacks. Every time I see this topic come up (which is constantly it seems for the navel is an alluring thing), it always goes the same way. "We're not out of touch. And to prove it, we shall now have a parade of endless self-celebration about our general awesomeness." No reflection, no self-evaluation or criticism. It just goes full Principal Skinner every time.

And that's fine. Everyone deserves their own spaces. People should own what they are and where they are. I know the environment I'm posting in is not necessarily friendly to my views or my thinking or anyone my age and younger in general. The space is way more conservative than a lot of the younger party base. It gets papered over with some social liberal bumper stickering, but at the core, the changes younger voters want and need to see meet push back in a lot of ways in this space. This is more of a hard core tribal space rather than a policy space. And that's ok! It's a big internet that allows for variety. Just be aware of it.

Here's a return question: Why would younger Democrats come here? What does it offer someone who is a Sanders or AOC progressive that they would want to check in here everyday? What relevance is on offer to their lives and experiences? Younger Democrats are not watching cable news all day, and that is a huge portion of content half the time.

It's fine for things to be exactly what they are. But self-awareness shouldn't have to be a fight.

[old as dirt]

15. Bernie and AOC are at opposite ends...

… of the generational demographic.

[Hekate]

20. Well-spotted

[progressoid]

36. Sanders' and AOC's age isn't the issue.

The point, I think, is that their supporters skew to the younger spectrum.

[old as dirt]

40. I can't even remember the names of the various "generations".

But apparently Bernie’s generation is known as the Silent Generation, or the Traditionalist Generation.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silent_Generation

The world didn’t start with us Boomers.

[OldBaldy1701E]

70. I know plenty of younger people who think it did. Maybe this is part of the issue? (n/t)

[intheflow]

102. Bernie wasn't a member of the Silent Generation.

Despite the fact that he was born 5 years before when Wikipedia says the Boomers started, the truth is that the "silent generation" is so named because they ignored a lot of inequality and injustice in the name of upward mobility. (White flight to the 'burbs is one manifestation of this, the beginning of the Great Migration is another.) I always think of the SG as the generation of the nuclear family, being adults in the 1950s.

That was not Bernie's experience. He was among of the first wave of white activists who acted in solidarity for civil rights. He protested Vietnam. Those movements (in white people) are Boomer actions, which to my mind, makes Bernie a Boomer.

Disclosure: I am a Boomer according to Wikipedia, but due to family circumstances, I was unable to enter the workforce until the mid-1980s, giving me a very Gen X worldview. I do not consider myself a Boomer in any way, shape or form except for the loosely accepted age brackets that have been interpreted as absolute generational markers.

[old as dirt]

134. Can Pink Floyd fans who complain about Rainbows...

..legitimately call themselves Boomers, just because that's where their birthdays fell?



P̲ink F̲lo̲yd - T̲h̲e̲ D̲ark S̲ide̲ Of T̲h̲e̲ Mo̲o̲n (Full Album) 1973

[intheflow]

136. Valid question. n/t

[Peregrine Took]

60. My husband and I are a "young" 80, have been daily runners for 40 years - all our friends are

younger than us - mainly in their 50's and 60's.
We joined a club of seniors to increase our social circle but, no knock on them, we just didn't fit in.
Many years ago our MD told us (we both have IBD and DH has had a heart attack) to exercise on a daily basis so we did and still are doing it.
I guess all that running and jogging has made us think like younger folks. We are huge Bernie people as we were "Deaniac's" before him.

[progressoid]

112. right.

I'm going to be 60. When I went to a Bernie rally in 2015, I was pleasantly surprised by the number of young people there. Much more that at other rallies for candidates who came through here.

[Celerity]

91. +1

[betsuni]

143. But why do their supporters think the Democratic Party isn't progressive?

Because they tell them Democrats are corrupt because of campaign contributions from employees of companies? Why?

[progressoid]

151. That's a bit of a strawman question.

It presupposes that Bernie supporters have a united attitude about the Democratic Party.

[MuseRider]

16. Perhaps too simple

but part of the problem is that you can be in a solid place for you but if you never look out or even try to understand (note I never said agree with) another way then it will never get better.

I am a solid Bernie person but understand what that means, even to Bernie. To answer your question, there are a LOT of reasons to come here even if you do not like the way the party is going. I mean, what are you going to do? You either start your own.....I do not see that happening or you work from the inside. I remember not understanding that or being happy with that being the way it is but it really is the only way. You get in and THEN you can change what you can. Why do you think Bernie is still hacking away at this?

If you do not like where you are, where we are, then where is your website? If you don't like what someone says or that people do not agree with you then you either suck it up and think about it or you can pound away and never move the mountain and to be honest that mountain is not going to move much in your lifetime, especially if you do not go out and be a Bernie or someone else actually trying to move it. You can always learn here but you have to be able to listen even if you do not agree.

I was where you are, in many ways I still am. This is what I have learned. Do I like it this way? Not particularly, but I do know that it has moved but like that mountain it will not go far. It is a humbling experience to finally figure it out.

Just an old persons experience. I understand you, in many ways I am still there with you, but there is much to learn here and if you do not like a challenge or it bores you there are lots of places here to learn from. It is frustrating but beating your head against the same wall day after day and year after year gets you nowhere. I do appreciate your drive to change things. Good luck.

[Hekate]

24. A thoughtful read, MuseRider

Thank you

[emulatorloo]

22. The majority of Du'ers are fine with and/or admire AOC and Sanders.

And nobody here is your “Republican Grandfather.”

We may sometimes disagree on strategy but DU is left and progressive website.

[jalan48]

26. I remember seeing "No more old white men" on a regular basis here on DU in 2016.

And yet, here we are today.

[rubbersole]

45. Hurumph. Well, then I'm going down to the shuffleboard court...

..as soon as I can find my teeth.

[Locrian]

54. great post - thanks

[highplainsdem]

66. Funny, I've never noticed a shortage of Bernie Sanders and AOC supporters

here. I've always thought they were very outspoken, especially in the Primaries forum (I supported Biden from the start).

And IMO you misjudge DU if you believe the older people here aren't concerned about the same issues as younger voters.

But if you think DU is flawed as a Democratic forum, please give us links to forums that DO attract primarily younger Democrats. I'd like to see them.

And I don't mean just Facebook groups supporting one or a few politicians. I mean forums concerned with lots of different issues and the Democratic Party in general.

Other than Democratic Underground, the only such large forum I'm aware of is Daily Kos. I have posted there, long ago, but I prefer DU as a forum.

[betsuni]

71. Yes.

Having the same goals but different ways to achieve them has been used to attack Democrats as not progressive. Wiped out the history of the Democratic Party. Shame that anyone believes that. The Olds know the history because they were there. I blame one person mainly.

[JI7]

85. Yes, even Kuninich had huge amount of Support on DU . John Edwards and Kucinich had more support

than OBama and Clinton combined . And even then DU had mostly older people .

Even when DU had high amount of Sanders supporters DU had mostly older people.

[JI7]

84. Young people don't come to DU because they have other things to do

DU has ALWAYS had mostly older people .

Why would young people come here ? DU is mostly to pass time.

Most young people are not going to spend their time on politics .

Has nothing to do with Bernie Sanders or AOC or whatever .

[betsuni]

86. That's what I think. They're busy living!

"Has nothing to do with Bernie Sanders or AOC or whatever." I don't know what people are talking about when they start in on this myth.

[JI7]

88. Yes, they have things like Tik Tok and a bunch of other social media things they are into

They communicate in their own ways. But they also are not going to be interested in politics as older people are. It will come naturally to them as they get older which is how it has always been .

There is a weird thing on DU where they always act like most young people are sad and suffering and nobody is listening to them

[betsuni]

93. The nobody's-listening-to-me thing is rampant.

From people who don't listen.

I thought the anti-capitalism, fake socialist savior movement/revolution thing was over but saw a new book, "It's OK to Be Angry About Capitalism." Must be a children's book. Sigh. Republicans want unregulated capitalism. Democrats do not. The End. This is not difficult to understand.

I don't like sports. Do I go to sports forums and demand they listen to my ignorant insulting boring opinions? No, I do not!

[Hekate]

130. Just curious, but where do you go when you are not here hanging out with "conservative cultists"?

I'm always ready to learn something new — and a few respondents to this thread have wondered where there might be another site with the breadth and depth of DU, or if one even exists.

[betsuni]

133. Probably a nice place where Democrats are ripped to shreds? You know, freedom.

I remember a JPR member saying they were the most polite forum on the internet.

[niyad]

137. you nearly owed me a keyboard.

[emulatorloo]

139. ...

[emulatorloo]

138. I never saw any posts calling that politician a "commie" or a "traitor." Maybe your confirmation

bias could have caused you to see words/or put words in people’s mouths that weren’t actually said. If you believe DU is a “conservative cult” (it isn’t) then you are going to interpret/skew things you read because of your confirmation bias.

Yes I saw criticism of the politician, but it was more nuanced than “commie” or “traitor.”

I apologize if I just didn’t see those posts.

[betsuni]

145. It's a fantasy.

[betsuni]

144. What does "progressive" mean?

People on a forum for supporters of the Democratic Party who hate Democrats because they think it's a conservative cult? What are you talking about?

[myohmy2]

125. +1...

...

[MuseRider]

10. I was 48 when I joined in 2002

Gonna hit the big 70 next December. Boy does that sound old.

I can go through the In Memoriam forum and remember every one of those people there.

It has been interesting seeing the changes but this site is so well run that it just flows from one to the other with new improvements along the way.

Obviously I missed Atticus' thread, I just wanted to say that through it all we have fought between generations but then when we really need to we come together. I have been beat up by the best but only a few times and I learned from it each time.

We are updated often enough to satisfy by our leaders and creators, the last one last week is incredibly helpful for me and I would guess it is for many people. *WAY TO GO ELAD*, and thanks. Other than these tweaks and additions that make life here better I have no idea how to bring in younger folks. I hope our younger members can help that happen. This site is set to exist for a long time and has already! It has certainly been important in my life. Now off to seek out that thread you mentioned. Thank you!

[johnp3907]

13. So you're saying young people are stupid?

Gee, that’s sad!

[lonely bird]

19. Nah...

Humans are stupid. Stupidity knows no age restriction. Youth may be inexperienced but not arbitrarily stupid.

[johnp3907]

29. I was just teasing the troll.

[hunter]

14. To the left of me?

Oh, I doubt it...

[old as dirt]

135. "Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right, ..."

[bif]

17. I was 47 when I joined in 2001.

Seems like yesterday!

[calimary]

25. Started late that same year. Gonna hit 70 in a few months.

My longest love affair ever, aside from the one with husband.

[ProfessorGAC]

57. I Was 45

Well, almost. I think I turned 45 the next month.
Doesn't seem that long to me either.

[Farmer-Rick]

18. First, every developed country's population is getting older

It's not just DU. It's throughout the developed world. Look at the ageing population in Germany and Japan.

Whenever women are allowed education and to control their own bodies, then populations get older. It is because women are not having as many children because it is the smart thing to do for them. It saves money, saves a mother's body, stops overpopulation and gives parents time to focus on the children they do have and want.

Second, I dare you young whippersnappers to go further left than I am. I dare you...go there. I'm a socialist, atheist, pro student loan forgiveness, pro Bernie and the Squad, to name just a few left positions. I have been waiting for the younger generation to catch up with me for the last 30 years. And now I'm seeing a glimmer of what a young leftist should be.

Yeah, here on DU you have to argue your opinions. There are a few folks here who I suspect would be better off watching Fox, but the majority will listen to a good argument and just need to get better information.

So, if you're young and want a more liberal DU, argue your case stand your position. There's a lot you can defend without stepping on the 3rd rails on DU like bashing Biden or Hillary.

Alert on those members who bash Bernie and the Squad. Those folks don't have anymore right to bash Democratic Leaders then folks who bash Biden or Hillary. That's what the rules say. Make DU live up to their rules if you feel it is unfair.

[Hekate]

120. Good points, all. But about aging Japan-- one of their big problems is their immigration policies...

There’s Japan and Japanese, and then there’s the rest of the world. They are highly restrictive about who gets to come and work and who gets to be a citizen. (They aren’t the only ones who do this — I saw a list of 17 nations, and Japan was only #10 )

So who takes care of the old folks when all the youngsters have gone away to the big city? Conundrum. Who comes up with all the new ideas and energy when the “youngsters” are 50 years old and settled in their routines?

Then there’s America, which still ranks as a younger-population country, with the dynamism that brings. Immigrants help to make us so. Whatever one can say about the sheer stupidity and downright cruelty of our immigration policies and procedures (and I have said plenty) we are still a magnet for immigrants. A lot of them become citizens, and their children are born US citizens. They keep us collectively younger than we would be if the white nationalists got their way.

In their lame-brained way, the white nationalists have hit on something that is true: their (white) demographic dominance is slipping into history and women in the white demographic have found other things to do besides have lots of babies.

Which is a long digression, but you can probably see my point. DU is a microcosm. We are aging — but the microcosm of which we are a part is America. We can rejuvenate.

[wryter2000]

21. Amen

I am sick to death of people claiming boomers are at fault for Trump. Just stop it.

I made a comment about format. Of course, I'm here for the content, but I also want it in this format. Younger people proved in the last election that their hearts and votes are in the right place. But an online discussion board may not be the format they like. If that's true, we're not going to get them here.

[Tikki]

23. OK, My New Year's resolution is to post some favourite NEW...

music here in Music Appreciation as it is released throughout the year. This music is in a genre made by an Activist Younger Generation today.

The messages are predominately about issues like over consumption, police brutality,
societal indifference and wink wink wink love.

Familiar!! Lyrics maybe..The sound, different.

Tikki

[ggma]

69. I once made the observation at work

that when I was young, every artist recorded at least one song that spoke to social consciousness on each new album. No one knew what I was talking about. No exaggeration in that statement. I felt so sad that I went back to my desk, put on my headphones and listened to Earth, Wind and Fire for the rest of the afternoon.

Music got a lot of us through the sixties and seventies. Trust and believe, my life has a soundtrack.

gg

[betsuni]

72. And into the eighties, like Grandmaster Flash & The Furious Five's "The Message."

Was a lot of powerful music.

[ggma]

81. You're right. I had forgotten the young rappers.

I was raising/fighting teens by then, but the early rappers were aware and had messages. Then everything got so violent.

gg

[Hekate]

90. "Music got us through"

Yes it did. Yes it did.

[Prairie_Seagull]

148. Now that is a great name for a song. "my life has a soundtrack"

Rings very true to me. I would not call myself a musician but i slap a guitar around a bit and you're right, Ouch.

[ggma]

152. Why, thank you Prairie!

I don't have any musical ability, at all. One of my sisters once told me that the best part of my singing was that I knew all the words. Still cracks me up all these years later. Lyrics are what grab me, and clever wordplay.

gg

[ismnotwasm]

27. DU is simply unknown

I follow lots of young and a few old Democrats across social media, when the most dynamic one being TikTok —at least right now. Unfortunately, or fortunately, depending on opinions, social media for all its flaws, including Twitter, Facebook, TikTok and the like, are here to stay.

Interestingly and anecdotally, there are also a lot of young people eschewing social media, as “over stimulating”

DU has hung onto a core group over the years, and still attracts new folks. I suppose if the owners wanted to do outreach on Reddit or the like (does DU have a Reddit page? I’ve ever looked) they could.

I guess my point is, than young Democrats and Democratic activists are out there, and would probably like DU if they were aware of it. It’s a well designed website, remarkably free of glitches.

[Dave Bowman]

39. "does DU have a Reddit page?"

Just googled and yes, there's a DU page:

https://www.reddit.com/r/DemocraticUnderground/

[IcyPeas]

43. yes DU is on Reddit as well as Twitter

but neither get much attention.

https://www.reddit.com/r/DemocraticUnderground/

https://twitter.com/demunderground

[newdayneeded]

113. I think there's only a couple

hundred thousand registered here, hardly a blip as the voting goes.

Maybe somebody has the actual registered number.

[summer_in_TX]

28. They'll check it out if we invite them.

Most liberals I know of any age haven't heard of DU unfortunately.

I've only just started realizing that I really ought to be spreading the word. It's been so valuable to me, and others should have the opportunity to participate too.

[Hekate]

30. There ya go!

[Prairie_Seagull]

38. Unfortunately/fortunately, I have a hunch that some folks stop in and lurk-

and don't get accounts. They then take what they have "learned" and spread it hopefully far and wide. Maybe Elad can give some insight on this. We all learn and lift off of each other. I try not to be blatant about it. Maybe add my own twist but this is a learning process and my hunch is that we are helping others with theirs.

[Tree Lady]

34. When I tell people about us

they assume with the name underground it is more edgy than it actually is. We have a lot of centrists here although I am one of the progressive liberals. I always explain we back up what we talk about with facts and articles and that there are a lot of highly educated people here.

[summer_in_TX]

44. That's a good point. Don't want to create false expectations.

we back up what we talk about with facts and articles and that there are a lot of highly educated people here.

I like and will use that.

[flamingdem]

31. How about a forum for under 40s?

I would be interested in what they have to say.

We can invite our kids, nieces, nephews

[Hekate]

42. They'll age out of it and wonder who the young interlopers are

[orleans]

107. i was thinking an M & Z forum

that way they don't age out

[Hekate]

121. Float the idea out there and see who responds. Then check in with EarlG, and see about a group...

I think it might work for you and others.

Best wishes.

[orleans]

122. thanks for the vote of confidence but i am neither

a z or an m



(i used to be younger--not sure what the hell happened)


lol

yeah, i know... too many of these

[Tree Lady]

33. I was 48 when I joined 18 yrs ago

I assume a lot of the boomers like me have more time on our hands to read articles and posts. And more time to get involved politically. When I was raising my kids I always voted dem but didn't really pay attention to what was happening and no fun forums like this existed then.

I protested a few times at capitol building in Sacramento with my kids over education issues as that was more important then.

[Kaleva]

62. I was in my late 40s when I joined. I'm 64 now.

[spooky3]

35. Wonderful post. Thanks. Nt

[Hermit-The-Prog]

37. Those who have been here the longest were the ones who welcomed me.

They are also the ones who tempered my smart-assed attitude that was left over from forums without the excellent TOS (Terms Of Service) and jury system here. (I recall 6 posters here who were convinced I was a Russian troll and reacted accordingly. That can be chalked up to the turbulent time in which I signed up).

Newbies may take some time to figure out that they don't have to be ready to do battle with every post, as long as they take the TOS to heart. A welcome and a gentle nudge toward empathy may go a long way.

Thanks Hekate.

[FakeNoose]

64. LOL Great post

[leftstreet]

41. Is there a forum: Millenials working and living out of their cars?

Because there's a lot of that happening and it will continue

DU's ability to attract people has never had much to do with age.
It's about material conditions

[Hekate]

47. That's a thought. Though it's important to note that we do have a fair number of members...

…of all ages who are barely hanging on by their fingernails. It doesn’t get mentioned often by them, but the perspective is vital.

[Moostache]

53. If my kids did not have their mother and myself, they would be in danger of the same...

Rent is obnoxious...food, gas, electric, digital communications (phone, internet, streaming)...student loans and debts...it is a scary situation and the absolute reality for anyone 18-29 for sure and many in their 30's as well.

I joined DU after a year of lurking about back in 2003 (during the run up to 2004 election). I was 32 then and 52 now (even if I am loathe to admit it, the photos and disappearing hairline will not allow my denials to stand)...this place has been a constant for me every day of that time, an online friend of many in a single interface; through all of my children's births, school and now as they are entering the workforce and colleges and independence (someday?). I have a 4-generation picture in my office of my grandmother (82 at the time), my father (60), myself (32) and my infant son (six months) that was taken in 2003. That photo show me that time is fleeting, and that while my grandmother has passed and my father has become her age now, I can't believe I am rapidly approaching my dad's age from the photo. Only the really great things in life seem to get away from us that fast, seem to linger in our memories and stay fresh decades later...DU is my online version of that photo.

What we can and must do is ensure that the millennials and the generations to come do not fall prey again to the Reagan myths and destructive policies they produce. Bush the lesser and Trump took those "tax the middle and give free ride to the rich" ideas to extremes, and unless we convince them that their struggles with the economy, the rising costs of EVERYTHING and especially the cost of higher education are NOT the fault of immigrants, minorities or LGBTQ communities, but rather the offshoot of 43 years of relentless oppression of the middle class lifestyle and enrichment of the upper 1% (really the upper 0.1% to be completely honest).

We need to continue speaking about these problems and work with them to devise solutions and we don't have another 40 years to see what happens or wait around.

[leftstreet]

55. +1

Very well said

[Hekate]

67. Absolutely right we don't have another 40 years, especially as a democratic nation...

I’m now in my mid-70s, oldest grandkid is 18. The kid was born after 9-11 — he’ll be able to vote, and he has no personal memory of either the event or life before it.

Gods I feel old when I say that. I feel I worked all my life as best I could to leave him a better world, and to what end. I come here every day — at least I get encouragement that others even older than I have not given up and are still plugging away, fighting the good fight. When someone says something too outrageous, I get encouragement by fighting back.

[Prairie_Seagull]

149. You've got me by a few years. I hope that I am still plugging away like you when I get more Golden.

As the younger people say with no explanation at all. RESPECT. (without yelling of course)

[Onlyserious]

46. What...no large print?

[Hekate]

51. Heh. One of the things I like best about a pad with touch screen is blowing up the font size...

[orangecrush]

48. ...

Bartcop sent me

[IHateRonDesantis1986]

49. I was 36 when I joined

Last week!!!☺️☺️☺️

[orangecrush]

50. How

Did we post at the exact same time?

Whippersnapper!

[niyad]

73. Welcome to our DU family, from one of the oldies (in both senses!)

[IHateRonDesantis1986]

123. Thank you!

Thank you!

[Skittles]

97. you're a pup

love your DU handle

[ancianita]

52. Yes, a wonderful post. Thank you.

I love and welcome all younguns. Heck, I was with teens all day and a lot of nights for 35 years. The uncertainty of their collective future is familiar pain for me. Their hope is what I'm looking for. But I try to feel what they feel now, listen to as much of their music as I can, read their books, try to see a future I won't be in, futile as that is.

I'ma just grab this moment to throw in an old song from when I still went to concerts...

https://music.

[Hekate]

63. 🌺. All you guys are really making my day

💕💕💕

[rhiannon55]

56. I was 55 when I joined in 2006; now I'm 71

so I've been a member for 16 years, although you can't tell that from my low post count. I started out posting more, but got burned by some negative responses. Apparently, I have thin skin, because those experiences turned me into someone who lurks every day, but rarely posts. But I have been here. I don't know what I would do without DU.

[MineralMan]

58. Yup.

You're right. I'm going to have a long post tomorrow.

[Hekate]

106. I will look for it

[MineralMan]

108. Here you go:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100217588597

[hlthe2b]

59. Gee, you guys are making it hard to keep up my denial...LOL

sigh...

Well, you are only as old as you feel, right? Oh, wait... OUCH!

[Prairie_Seagull]

150. I have found that to have a younger aspect to your tude-

we have to hang out with younger people. Don't worry we can laugh afterward or even better learn something we did not know. I truly love the exuberance, willingness to listen and yes in some ways innocent ignorance of some.

They need our help now more than ever. IMO

Just don't make it like a family meeting, just show and explain as you go without making it a "teaching moment" and trust me it will take. It won't be to long and you will hear your words come back to you and when you do don't say shit,
Just smile.

[usaf-vet]

61. I was sixty one when I joined. Makes sense I was winding down my business and prepping for.....

.... retirement. I was still serving my client list but not taking on new accounts. Those I was passing on to younger associates.

So I had spare time in my schedule and was upset with Bush / Cheney and the unnecessary Gulf war. I became more and more discussed with the direction the country was moving to.

As an ex-military Vietnam-era medic with a son still in the age group to enter military service, I didn't want him to become the four generations to serve during the war years.

This was precisely my father's reaction when he, as a USN WW II veteran, didn't want me to enter the military any more than his dad, a WW I Army veteran, didn't want his son to serve.

[OneGrassRoot]

65. 💜💜💜 K&R n/t

[70sEraVet]

68. Funny. We're having the same kind of discussion in my American Legion post.

Where are the next generation of members, that will keep our organization going? They aren't joining.
I wish I knew the answer.

[niyad]

74. A most tnoughtful, and needed, post. I was 52 when I first was introduced to

this amazing communuty, 53 when I officially joined, 20 years ago. I was actually called a tribal eldet recently, when I encountered a young, activist teacher. She thinks I have something to offer the young women she teaches and works with. We shall see.

[Hekate]

78. 🌺

I had hoped to be a tribal elder. I feel derailed, tho…
So glad you came.

[niyad]

79. And I am so glad to share this space with you!

[Hyper_Eye]

75. I'm almost 40. I joined during the Bush years.

I joined in 2005 when I was 22 but I was a daily reader of DU before and through the 2004 election. I was an Edwards supporter. I don't regret that. He may have turned out to be a scumbag but that doesn't mean he didn't run on a good platform.

I think the issue with pulling in young people is that they don't tend to use topic-specific forum sites these days. They use forums that have places for all of the topics they are interested in such as Reddit. Over the years the internet has become more and more centralized. I'm not sure how to overcome that. I hope DU remains here and active for the rest of my days though.

[Withywindle]

142. This. The internet landscape has changed.

Politically-active younger (by which I mean under 55) people these days are more likely to be on Twitter, Reddit, Instagram, maybe Facebook, and other more centralized sites.

The way to recruit is to offer more of what left/liberal politically-engaged younger people are looking for. From my Gen X POV I think they're mostly concerned about just being able to afford to live decently. Rents are too high, wages are too low, most people with degrees are in so much debt they won't pay it off before retirement (because of obscene interest rates and aforementioned too-low wages and too-expensive housing), and medical care is out of reach for too many. They are also very concerned and angry about racism and police brutality, and about the terrifyingly fast deterioration of the rights of women and LGBTQ+ people.

They don't care so much about individual politicians and their personalities.

[betsuni]

76. The DUers/Democrats-are-wealthy-old-centrist/conservative-elites insult is just to make us mad.

[question everything]

77. We can start by looking at our congressional leadership

We replaced Pelosi (82), Hoyer (83) and Clyburn (82) with Jeffries (52), Clark (59) and Aguilar (43).

I have been lamenting that in 2016 our candidates were Clinton (69) and Sanders (75) while the Republican "clowns car" was filled with candidates in their 50s and 60s. OK, so they selected the old one, Whiny (70).

Even now, I have to be careful here, we have no idea who should succeed Biden either in 2024 or 2028. In contrast to the Republicans we don't have successors waiting in the wing.

So, yes, the image of the party which is reflected in DU is an old one. But I hope that the changes at the top will be reflected here, too.

[Meowmee]

82. I have seen a lot agist posts here

Attacking older people that are allowed to stand. It’s not a good look for a dem forum. Maybe some are trolls or trollish people. I often can’t tell for sure who is a real person and who is troll or trollish. There is a lot of nastiness here, not all agist. We need less divisiveness to fight the real enemy here which is fascism, before there is no country and also no freedoms left.

[Hekate]

129. Fight back

As you can see from this thread, a whole lot of us are “older” — anyone who joined when DU was founded and is still here is in that category, unless they were (like one person I responded to) only in their 20s at the time. I’m 75 now, but I was a whole lot younger then. Shocking, I know.

But kidding aside, part of my mind kept telling me I was participating in a board of vital activists in their middle years, and that kept me thinking I still was as well. It’s only in the past half-year that it’s really sunk in to me how very many of us hit 70 — and 80 — and jeez, when did that happen.

[betsuni]

132. I love the description "robust middle age."

[herding cats]

83. I joined DU when I was 33 years old.

I've grown wiser for my time spent here and my interactions with the members over time. Which isn't to say I always agreed, but I have matured to learn to be more receptive to others. A lot of those lessons came from here.

Thanks to people here who helped encourage me I've volunteered in campaigns I'm proud to have been a part of, and been active in political ways I may not have been otherwise. I've learnt truly valuable lessons here which subsequently led to real life skills.

People can disparage this site, but I've definitely grown and learned to be a better citizen here by taking the best from here and using it, and learning from the rest.

A lot of the older posters here have been instrumental in my journey. I appreciate them one and all and I always will.

[samplegirl]

89. Been a member here since 2004

I’m 65

[KS Toronado]

92. Would think there's one easy way to get younger people to join Hekate

Since a lot of Du'ers enjoy your posts, how about doing one encouraging everyone with kids and
grand-kids old enough to vote to check out DU. Give us examples why we're ahead of the crowd,
like no annoying ads if you are a star member, all the different forums, etc, etc, etc. Maybe even
tips on how to educate the younger generations why it's important for them to understand
politics and politicians, plus why they're better off voting Democratic.

On a side note....will $1.00 make one a star member?

[jaxexpat]

94. Retaining relevance amid generational changes. Aught to be a book...or at least a smallish war.

Perhaps to remember that each waking becomes another whole new day for everyone, will suffice.

[CousinIT]

95. I was 41 when I joined...

....many of us aged right here!

[old as dirt]

96. Ciclo de vida y procesos de formación

Memorias del proceso

[Botany]

98. Well there is one proven way to stop aging

[Blaukraut]

103. Put it that way, I prefer the alternative

I was 35 when I joined DU in 2001. The OP has it exactly right. The only way DU would have skewed 'younger', would have been a constant turnover in membership. Maybe EarlG should implement term limits

[Layzeebeaver]

99. Where is the DU Outreach program? designed to pull younger folks in?

Get these kids in here when they are young!!!

[intheflow]

100. I appreciate this thread, Hekate, and also...

I was 40 when I joined in 2004, so I get this. And also, I think the reason there is pushback against Boomers is that when younger folks offer their worldview opinions, there are plenty of "old guard" here who push back unto discouraging them. Although born at the tail end of the Boomer generation, my life experience has been Gen X all the way. I delight especially, as a white woman, in listening to and learning from diverse perspectives. I cannot tell you how often I've posted contemporary scholarship on white culture seen though Black eyes only to be attacked as being divisive, naive, and stupid. This ALWAYS happens when I post about how To Kill A Mockingbird is a white savior trope. Talk about white fragility!! NEVER come between a white Boomer and their antiquated ways of thinking about institutional racism, as well as their admiration for a fictional character. Now I'll usually just ignore the "kids today..." rants by the Boomers here, because I would just post in response, "Hey you kids! Get off my lawn!"

But I have known you on these boards for almost 20 years now, and know you to be a kind soul who works and longs for liberation across age/class/gender/religion. Let me offer you (and others reading this) a couple ways to influence younger people into movement work (including DU).

First: volunteer at your local social justice organization. Volunteer work at these places can be anythings from organizing marches to hand-addressing envelopes. Even if you're just the person making coffee and hanging out, you will get to know younger people, and more importantly, they will get to know you, your activism, and your dreams for the future beyond your time on Earth, including where you get your news from - DU.

Second: Table for DU at political events. Work with EarlG to get some bumperstickers (or some other bling) and make up little cards with the logo and site address. Evangelize about DU.

Third: I heartily suggest reading Hope and History: Why We Must Share the Story of the Movement by Dr. Vincent Harding, a Black historian, scholar, and the man who wrote MLK's "Beyond Vietnam" speech. He lays out the power of sharing our stories in liberation work to sustain each other and build successive generations of activists. Then story-tell every younger person you know about our (mostly) wonderful DU community.

[Hekate]

118. Excellent points -- thanks!

[Hekate]

126. Meant to add: thank you much for the kind words. They mean a lot.

[CousinIT]

101. Time waits for nobody

[Martin68]

104. Age is not a factor. Intelligent analysis and readable, interesting, fact-based writing is.

[Hekate]

109. That's what I was looking for when I came here 21 years ago, & I found it

[mathematic]

105. This is revisionist. DU was a hotbed of 9/11 trutherism back in the day

There was also an exodus of long time, extremely popular posters to the Jackpine Radicals message board in 2016. Those people that left hadn't changed. DU had, and for the better.

I remember more blog-style rant posts back in the day. The style of internet communications has changed over the years. It's not just a DU thing. Blogs are few and far between.

Commenting style back then was more or less the same as now, except there were more cutesy and incomprehensible pet names for conservative figures. Thank god that's mostly died down.

I think that if there's one rule that made DU what it is today it's "support democratic public officials". It didn't work quickly, and that's why I disagree with you about those early days of DU, but it DID work. It was what, 10 years ago that a popular DUer called Obama a POS? Halfway through the lifetime of DU and posters like that had been dominating the conversation here.

[Hekate]

114. I came on in the run-up to the invasion of Iraq & got tremendous fact-based, well-sourced info...

Last edited Thu Jan 26, 2023, 02:16 AM - Edit history (2)

It was here that I learned about the theocrats of the USA, their support for homeschooling including a full range of textbooks and handy calendars showing when each of the Founding Fathers was “born again.” Rushdoony was their billionaire patron, who’d already been working on his project for 30 years at that point. They seriously work to undermine the whole institution of public education — and look where we are today.

I discovered Right Wing Watch and from there I accessed primary sources (to use scholar-speak) — it’s easy once you know what you’re looking for — in which these dangerous nutballs tell the reader all about who they are and what their plans are for turning America into a Christian Taliban nation, working in all directions — but definitely utilizing distrust of public education. You think Ron DeSantis’ ideas came out of nowhere?

It was like looking into the Abyss.

It was at DU I found out about burn pits and other toxic injuries to our soldiers in Iraq. A young American journalist (Hispanic name? San Francisco area?) worked extensively on this issue, interviewing troops back home. (I think he made it to Iraq, but all those files are in my old computer, along with his name.) I remember one unit he interviewed when they came back home — all young men — and for a wonder he interviewed their wives as well. One wife said: “Our babies were all healthy before they went to Iraq. Since they returned, not one baby has been born healthy.” That tells me those toxins changed their sperm — their reproductive systems. Was this on NBC?

From DU I found out that the extensive use of National Guard troops came with a peculiar twist: their medical treatment plan wasn’t the renowned Walter Reed Hospital — it is (or was, I hope it’s changed) kind of nothing much. The severely injured were sort of warehoused at Fort Knox, hoping and waiting for rehab. It was a scandal — but I didn’t hear about it on CBS.

I was already taking part in protest marches in my home town when a friend directed me to DU. For all I could tell from the national news, we were all alone. I knew that couldn’t be true.

Some DU members went to the first protest in Washington DC, marched — and took photos, which they uploaded here along with their eye-witness report on the experience. Thousands were there. The Washington Post reported that a couple of hundred were there. I wrote a couple of hot letters to the editor of the WaPo as I am sure others did — over the next few days they changed their numbers from about 200 to several hundred to several thousand.

And I knew my town was not protesting alone.

Thanks for pointing out ways in which DU has managed to improve along the way. ( And I hope the Jackpine Radicals are happy where they are. )

[tishaLA]

111. as much as age, race is a huge issue at DU

for a variety of reasons, I suppose, but it seems not especially reflective of the Democratic Party and our base. I'm going to avoid being specific because I'd have a post removed, but lots of posters who made the African American group dynamic disappeared long ago and, as much as DU loves to celebrate black women for saving us from people like the former guy, it's less celebratory about contributions here. And that effect snowballs.

I came here when I was 27 and I'm nearing my 20th anniversary on the site, so I guess I've become part of the "robust middle age" cohort. I've learned a lot from posters older and younger than me and the site has certainly pushed me in many ways--largely by making me envision political possibilities that I'd thought were impossible, like marriage equality and really profound changes to our access to health care. I hope we have new voices, especially younger and more racially diverse voices, to continue expanding what we can envision in our politics, our country, and the world.

[Hekate]

117. I hear you, & I keep hearing this from others now that I've raised the age issue...

There are folks I miss from the old days, too. It is not a trivial issue, and I’m sorrier than I can express that it is so.

But I do not know what to do about it myself, except to say that it should be added to the discussion in this thread & I’m glad you did, because it’s all part of the problem of our shared identity.

But my goodness, you joined young! I am SO glad you’re still here! 🌺

[betsuni]

124. +1

[emulatorloo]

140. +1

So many of the core people in the African American were targeted with ‘alert stalking’ or just driven away by a small hostile group of very loud posters. It was horrible.

[betsuni]

141. +1

[tavernier]

116. I was here before the Bush years... different handle,

I used to be Keysdisease. I had to leave for a couple of years after Kerry lost. I worked hard for that one and the horrible ugliness of the republicans toward war heroes put me in a deep downward spin. When I returned I was more centered and prepared to fight on. I’m 76 now… older, and a bit wiser to them.

[cksmithy]

119. I have been reading DU

since the the 2016 presidential election when Stephanie Miller would mention DU posts on her radio show. I was 65 years old and I found most of what I read to be thoughtful and well reasoned. I would check DU online before I read my online news paper subscriptions, (still do) The San Francisco Chronicle, local paper, the New York Times and for a while the LA Times. In a few weeks I will be 72 years old. I became a member about a year ago. I only respond to posts. Once, I got a snarky response to one of my responses, which made it really hard for me to respond to other posts for a while.

Hekate, thank you for your post. My youngest daughter, 41, stares at a computer screen all day, and the last thing thing she wants to do is get on line and get involved with people she doesn't know and discuss politics. She doesn't do facebook or instagram either. She and her husband are Democrats and were so disappointed after the 2016 election and very happy with the 2020 presidential election. Our grand kids know not to discuss politics at school. They will always vote democratic, can't stand the repubs, but right now, being parents to 12 and 9 year olds, they just don't have the time or physical energy to read or post on this site. When I talk about something political, they say, I know and tell me stuff that I they understand what is going on politically. If only our oldest daughter hadn't married into super repub family.

[Hekate]

131. Respond as much as you want to me, cksmithy

And if I’m in one of my moods, just say “Hey! You told me to drop in!”

[crickets]

127. The entire thread has been an enlightening read.

I joined DU when I was in my late 30s and I just turned 60 in the last year. Yikes!! How did that happen?

I've lurked off and on, especially during the Obama years when I got a bit complacent, but DU has been my first choice as a news source for almost as long as I've been online. I have learned so much from all the people here, not just in staying informed, but in seeing things from the perspective of others. Every once in a while, someone here will post a piece of history I'd never heard about before and I'm glad to learn about it.

Sometimes it seems easy to get caught up in defending a pet opinion or candidate, but more and more often I find myself trying to sift through all of the viewpoints presented in a discussion topic, take an internal temperature, and see if I don't reevaluate and shift a little when given more information. I appreciate learning to do that.

If people want more young posters to join (and I would love that) then suggestions for evangelizing the site are a great idea. If we want younger people to come here, telling them about it would be a good start.

Thanks for a great topic, Hekate.

[Hekate]

128. You are so welcome -- and thanks for chiming in, crickets

[Emile]

146. +1