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ancianita

(35,933 posts)
Sun Jan 29, 2023, 12:57 PM Jan 2023

Afraid to ask, but can't help but ask, about ChatGPT and AI.

I ask because serious proponents and opponents of democracy as a human system are likely compelled to find things out about this AI.

Even though I've read books on the subject of AI, I'm overwhelmed by its latest appearance, and am afraid I or humans in general won't adapt well to its existence. I hope to understand more about it, and how it impacts human free will, freedom, human futures, and whether to support those impacts on humans; whether humans even have a choice.

For me, it's pretty basic: AI's forms are better to know about than to experience unaware.



Questions TO HUMANS ONLY here about thisChatGPT.

1. Has ChatGPT shown up on FB and/or other social media platforms yet?
Would we humans know?
How would we know?

Questions TO BOTH HUMANS AND TO THIS CHATGPT re its use:

2. "Does ChatGPT track us & all our device use forever once we're signed up."

3. "Does ChatGPT stop tracking us and our devices once we end our contract."

4. "Does the AI itself have lawful standing to contract on behalf of its human owners, such that a contract with them becomes lawfully the same as a contract with the AI itself."

5. "Can ChatGPT lie for its owners about the fine print of humans' contracts with the owners."

More questions TO BOTH HUMANS AND TO THIS CHATGPT re its impact on human status, and human learning systems.

Perhaps by comparing human & AI responses, humans can learn whether OpenAI's future development is close to matching or surpassing humans' systems of being AN authority -- in law, judges; in education (the ways that pre-school to graduate schools develop humans to become AN authority).

Perhaps compared answers can give humans a sense of where and whether humans may or may not exercise their AI based authority, or their own -- partially, together, or not at all.

Perhaps questions to both humans and to this ChatGPT can unsettle or settle human issues about which entity(ies) will be, bottom line, IN authority -- humans, or AI -- and which might or might not carry over to the existence and use of General Artificial Intelligence.


On to the questions:

6. "Who is AN authority" and
"Who is IN authority," and
"What is authority,"

7. "What is rule of law."
"What is 'consent.' "
"What is government."
"What is 'consent of the governed.' "
"What is 'consent of the government.' "


8. "What is 'equality under the law.' "
"Is "equality under the law" a fundamental right guaranteed by the US Constitution."

Questions to AI researchers:

9. Are there 'zones of human control' and/or 'zones of authority' for AI.

10. When does learning AI become General Artificial Intelligence.

11. When/if GAI comes to exist, when does it become self aware.

12. If GAI becomes self aware, would it inform its humans owners.

13. If GAI existed, would any or all affected humans even know it.



Which raises two overall questions:

14. Now that AI is here,
why have humans wanted AI at all?


15. Have our old ways of mapping reality crossed a line of human control?

Other human based sources to read through the Commons of the Internet:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algorithmic_Justice_League

AI takeover
Artificial consciousness
Artificial general intelligence (AGI)
Computer ethics
Effective altruism, the long term future and global catastrophic risks
Existential risk from artificial general intelligence
Human Compatible
Personhood
Philosophy of artificial intelligence
Regulation of artificial intelligence
Robotic Governance
Superintelligence: Paths, Dangers, Strategies

27 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Afraid to ask, but can't help but ask, about ChatGPT and AI. (Original Post) ancianita Jan 2023 OP
How long dweller Jan 2023 #1
Thank you. Let's ask Earl, Elad, and/or Skinner. ancianita Jan 2023 #2
Chatgpt can only manipulate what already exists. It 'scrapes' data et al cbabe Jan 2023 #3
Aware. My questions, however, generally ask about its contractual limits, and how ancianita Jan 2023 #4
+1 2naSalit Jan 2023 #7
And do they get paid for use of their work? Or is cbabe Jan 2023 #23
All good questions, ancianita Jan 2023 #25
er, uhm no. Voltaire2 Jan 2023 #22
uhm no. Not new work. Putting jigsaw pieces together is not creating the puzzle. cbabe Jan 2023 #24
It would seem that gatekeeping is required for AI. cachukis Jan 2023 #5
ChatGPT: What should the 'tax code' be? nt Prairie_Seagull Jan 2023 #8
Not sure of codification. cachukis Jan 2023 #17
You're right Ponietz Jan 2023 #21
I hear you. Yet who and how. Back then, ancianita Jan 2023 #10
Amen ancianita, Amen. Prairie_Seagull Jan 2023 #6
It's pretty simple dwayneb Jan 2023 #9
I would also like to know if this is something that we (of both parties can agree on) Prairie_Seagull Jan 2023 #11
My off the top answer is no. Because when a tool can be weaponized, rethugs will use it for that ancianita Jan 2023 #13
This message was self-deleted by its author old as dirt Jan 2023 #12
I dig A Capella Science. But seriously, do you really want to put that here? ancianita Jan 2023 #14
Thank you JudyM Jan 2023 #15
Welcome, ancianita Jan 2023 #16
This is good to know FakeNoose Jan 2023 #18
AI BadGimp Jan 2023 #19
Who would that person be -- ancianita Jan 2023 #20
Intellectual property/copyright/plagiarism discussion/links cbabe Jan 2023 #26
All I can say is that we'll have to see if Open AI learned from the Google's MusicLM's issue. ancianita Jan 2023 #27

ancianita

(35,933 posts)
2. Thank you. Let's ask Earl, Elad, and/or Skinner.
Sun Jan 29, 2023, 01:15 PM
Jan 2023

The owners here might help define what "underground" means here.

cbabe

(3,511 posts)
3. Chatgpt can only manipulate what already exists. It 'scrapes' data et al
Sun Jan 29, 2023, 01:25 PM
Jan 2023

and reconfigures according to strict guidelines.

Think paint by numbers.

It can not create anything new.

That’s what humans do.

ancianita

(35,933 posts)
4. Aware. My questions, however, generally ask about its contractual limits, and how
Sun Jan 29, 2023, 01:28 PM
Jan 2023

Last edited Sun Jan 29, 2023, 03:20 PM - Edit history (1)

its owner stands about whether it contributes to the development of General Artificial Intelligence.

Does one who uses ChatGPT here cause others' responses to get scraped through that one's account?

cbabe

(3,511 posts)
23. And do they get paid for use of their work? Or is
Mon Jan 30, 2023, 01:37 PM
Jan 2023

it intellectual property theft, plagiarism, etc.?

ancianita

(35,933 posts)
25. All good questions,
Mon Jan 30, 2023, 03:23 PM
Jan 2023

none of which I can even speculate on. Regardless, I'm pretty sure that corporations whose profits might suffer (if that's even provable through individual ChatGPT accounts) could file charges and therefore be allowed discovery.

The likely problem for users would be that they, as 'creators,' would probably already have agreed under contract that whatever the chat AI would scrape from them is Sam Altman's or the company's property, and so the contract TOS would prevail.

Voltaire2

(12,958 posts)
22. er, uhm no.
Mon Jan 30, 2023, 12:24 PM
Jan 2023

Humans and chatgpt 'create' text content in pretty much the same way, by using what they learn from the works of others to produce new works.

cachukis

(2,230 posts)
5. It would seem that gatekeeping is required for AI.
Sun Jan 29, 2023, 02:18 PM
Jan 2023

Asimov wrote about rules and I wonder if it's too late to write them for today.
Our minds are an example of social evolution.
AI will evolve in keeping up with our own advancement and as computers now outpace us in so many ways, so will AI.
Think about one's learning experience from the use of a 286 processor and the capabilities of that time.
Think about being laid off from an engineering firm and why you didn't get hired after being away for a year or two because the CAD/CAM software left you behind.
The questions you pose will possibly be answered as this all unfolds, but I, for one, am not confident, that honor will have much of an influence.
The tax code is small compared to what will challenge the next generations.
We will need Bonsai artistry to keep it from becoming a kudzu.

cachukis

(2,230 posts)
17. Not sure of codification.
Sun Jan 29, 2023, 03:49 PM
Jan 2023

But I am fairly sure that Twitter will be small potatoes.
How does one use AI in contract law. Can you sue the AI? What types of excuses will users of AI be allowed?

I was only referencing the tax code as it has blossomed into an unmanageable entity that allows for misuse.

Will laws be written by AI and will they be voted on?
Who will determine what is human and what is fake?

I want to avoid thinking about the complications, but boiler plate lacks nuance.

Will instructions be written by AI? Will they be updated as modifications take hold?

Will prescription guidance take into consideration the ingestion of newer medicines that cause complications?

I don't know how to anticipate the use of AI CHATGPT never mind the rest of what's coming.

My generation lived the transformation from analog to digital. The next generations will experience and contend with robots that will look quizzically at us trying to respond by using our previous experiences to answer questions we haven't thought of.

I think we need a rule book. Could be wrong, but we'll see.

Ponietz

(2,936 posts)
21. You're right
Sun Jan 29, 2023, 05:28 PM
Jan 2023

I expect next week the “Nigerian princes” will be using it to get inside heads and open pocketbooks.

ancianita

(35,933 posts)
10. I hear you. Yet who and how. Back then,
Sun Jan 29, 2023, 02:44 PM
Jan 2023

we were stretching the limits of memory and use on the nets, trying to standardized everything to best help mass communications unfold. Now we're talking about zones of responsible use that don't weaken or eliminate human agency, including that of developers and owners of AI, as if we have a say in any of that.

Thank you for your insights.

dwayneb

(766 posts)
9. It's pretty simple
Sun Jan 29, 2023, 02:37 PM
Jan 2023

Technology and AI will destroy freedom and democracy in the end, and will forever alter human civilization. It's just a matter of time, this was obvious from the very early days of the WWW.

ChatGPT is just the beginning. Even in its current primitive form, it can flood social discourse with millions of logically constructed, unique propaganda statements that can be used to support any conspiracy theory or any political aspiration. Election denial-ism comes to mind.

Prairie_Seagull

(3,304 posts)
11. I would also like to know if this is something that we (of both parties can agree on)
Sun Jan 29, 2023, 02:57 PM
Jan 2023

Maybe just maybe all humanity will see the threat. Then we will see who is on the other side. Who the real adversaries are. One can hope.

Expect a big time push from profiteers to try and move the needle on this, something like, "it's not that powerful" or "We have complete control of it" or...

ancianita

(35,933 posts)
13. My off the top answer is no. Because when a tool can be weaponized, rethugs will use it for that
Sun Jan 29, 2023, 03:10 PM
Jan 2023

to shoot first, ask questions later. Koch's Freedom coup Caucus wouldn't ever agree to constructively co-manage legislation, unless their owner/donors said to.

You ask because you're fair minded. But please remember who we've been dealing with for over 6 years under Trump, and driven by 40 years of government capture by Koch and his later network of oligarchs.

I wonder if, when, or how the FBI would handle its existence, nevermind Congress. But Congress should immediately begin hearings and call the owners in to explain how its profitability wouldn't cause loss, harm or damage to end users, or society at large. Just so scholars can do studies to frame outcomes of its use, in order to get data on both positive and negative outcomes. And maybe, even, to write intelligent legislation.

The profiteers? imo, they will say whatever optimizes profitability.


Response to ancianita (Original post)

JudyM

(29,192 posts)
15. Thank you
Sun Jan 29, 2023, 03:18 PM
Jan 2023

for prompting me to do a quick read about it. From Wikipedia, among other interesting info:

According to OpenAI guest researcher Scott Aaronson, OpenAI is working on a tool to attempt to watermark its text generation systems so as to combat bad actors using their services for academic plagiarism or for spam
that would be great if it’s somehow an unhackable watermark.

The whole wiki page is an interesting read, including discussion about its “hallucinations.”

At this point, a Wikipedia content entry, itself, could likely be proposed by chatgbt, right?
Or possibly even parts of your OP!

ancianita

(35,933 posts)
16. Welcome,
Sun Jan 29, 2023, 03:24 PM
Jan 2023

and yes, I noted that line, too.

I doubt that Wikipedia policy allows for any but human input. But I'd bet, too, that its owners are right now discussing policy re input from humans who'd dare use AI or ChatGPT.

As for DU, I'm pretty sure that Earl and Elad have a rule coming up about DU members' use of ChatGPT or AI generated content. Why wouldn't they, right?

cbabe

(3,511 posts)
26. Intellectual property/copyright/plagiarism discussion/links
Mon Jan 30, 2023, 03:57 PM
Jan 2023
https://www.democraticunderground.com/10355814

Google has created MusicLM, AI which is impressive but has copyright problems

Cross-post from General Discussion.


No kidding. Copyright problems serious enough to keep from releasing it so far.

Problems which other AI like ChatGPT and Midjourney also have, and I hope artists who have been or will be affected by them can stop them with lawsuits. Tempting as these tools are for businesses that don't want to pay real artists, and individuals who don't want take the time to learn skills and create something of their own when they can ask AI to do it and pretend they're being creative.

…more…

(Good start to answering my questions. Thanks, highplainsdem.)

ancianita

(35,933 posts)
27. All I can say is that we'll have to see if Open AI learned from the Google's MusicLM's issue.
Mon Jan 30, 2023, 04:20 PM
Jan 2023

I'm pretty sure that even ChatGPT can research whether it's breaking copyright, and sidestep it, unlike the AI used by Google.

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