Honestly, have we lost the country? Are we no longer free

[Charlemagne]

Im up late taking care of some school stuff so I am a bit paranoid in the first place. However I read the WaPo article by Jonathan Turley titled: 10 reasons the U.S. is no longer the land of the free. It is an amazing article, very concise.

He makes a great argument that the US has surrendered so many freedoms that it is hard for us to continue to define ourselves as free. He lists the actions of the last 11 years that put us, even to a lesser degree, with some of the worst countries around.

So, is it true? Have we gone too far and there isnt a way back? Is the country too sedated with tv and high-fructose to care? Are we currently in that moment right before the executioner drops the blade on the condemned man (i.e. we know it is coming, but we can do nothing about it)?

Or am I just being paranoid. Thank you for your answers.

/freakout.

[jberryhill]

1. Call me when 10's of thousands are drafted

Are people more free than in, say, 1967?

What year would you estimate was the zenith of freedom in America?

[The Traveler]

3. Your reply puzzles me

The absence of a military draft does not necessarily establish a more free society. I could argue that the establishment of a military draft does not necessarily qualify a society as being repressive.

And yet, certainly people of color are, today, more free than they were in 1968. There is no question we have extended the established civil rights to more people ... but I think the boon itself (i.e. the rights conferred) has begun to diminish significantly.

[jberryhill]

13. It's a multi-dimensional problem

Some of the recent erosion is somewhat hypothetical. That's not to say that it is not a fit subject of concern. But to say that a judicially untested statute may result in a deprivation of fundamental rights, in comparison to the actual and total deprivation of liberty involved in something like the draft, is an exercise in looking at one thing and not another.

The really amazing thing to me is how the scope of available liberty has expanded. It used to be a BIG DEAL to make a long distance telephone call. Now, ideas themselves can be shared to an extent that was inconceivable not long ago. Either that, or I'm getting old.

[CanonRay]

12. The "all volunteer" military scares me more than a drafted one

They could much more easily be used against the people, being an "elite" force. And we've changed enough laws to enable this to happen should those in power decided to do so. It just hasn't happened...yet. The military, especially the officer corp, is very removed from the people, and the officer corp itself is very right wing.

[msongs]

2. bush 2 and now bush 3 - serial killers above the laws of god and man nt

[Kennah]

4. We are certainly in one scary assed place

1) Any one of the GOP clown car wins the Presidency and welcome to tens if not hundreds of thousands of more people dying from exposure and starvation every year.

2) Obama wins re-election but the GOP keeps the House, and we have at least two more years of obstruction.

3) Obama wins re-election, a Progressive majority takes over in the House and Senate, and I fear what the wingnuts will do.

This is Shit Central, and I don't expect we'll get beyond it for another 10-15 years.

I invite others to post scenarios for the future that aren't scary. Please.

[Old and In the Way]

5. I think you hit all the scary parts well.

If 3) happens, it could well become a very ugly time with 2nd Amendment reactionaries deciding they need to take the law into their own hands. OTOH, it might finally start the process of getting this country back on track with a government finally doing the people's business..instead of private service for the top 5%.

[DeathToTheOil]

6. Freedom doesn't actually exist in any country

There are merely varying levels of restriction.

[dougolat]

7. The list is devastating, the last paragraphs..... priceless

We're still free, because we still believe in the in the American Dream: Declaration of Independence, equality, government of the people, pre-1954 Pledge of Allegiance, and the torch of hope and enlightenment held by the Statue of Liberty.
It inspired the Tiananmen Square protests in 1989.
But now the metaphorical torch is an assault rifle, and if anyone is inspired by our ideals, it's in spite of our difficulty in living up to them.

Well, it is still OUR government, in need of release from the corrupting grip of the monied interests who stampeded us into preemptive and illegal wars of aggression, who forced us to bail out the too-big-to-JAIL, who profit from the insane Drug-War, who hi-jack our regulatory agencies into promoting the very things they were meant to correct,
who abuse the public airwaves to misinform and drown out honest debate,
and who think it's permissible to militarize our police, do without search warrants, assassinate, torture, and all the outrages described by Turley.

Correcting Prohibition happened fairly quickly, getting the vote for women took longer; slavery, a worst-case scenario.
This one?

[newfie11]

8. I agree with you

The freedom I remember 50 years ago is gone.
Things I did as a child and teenager would probably land me in court today. Back then no one gave any thought to arresting kids for innocent things.

This country needs to lighten up.

[Bonobo]

9. Here is the list in brief, and it is chilling.

1. Assassinations of U.S. citizens

2. Indefinite detention

3. Arbitrary justice

4. Warrantless searches

5. Secret evidence

6. War crimes

7. Secret court

8. Immunity from judicial review

9. Continual monitoring of citizens

10 Extraordinary renditions

[xchrom]

11. +1

[TreasonousBastard]

10. A bit of overstatement, although he misses some things...

I can't see how we're so much worse off than we were during the anti-Communist hysteria of the 50's. Real people, innocent people, had their lives destroyed.

Or, worse than it was when there were regular lynchings and "Whites Only" water fountains. Real people, innocent people, were shamed, held in contempt, refused their basic rights, and often beaten and killed with the full support of the law.

And, of course, during the Great War on Drugs, every attempt was made to spy, suspend habeas, allow warrantless searches, and happily steal private property if at all related to "drug profits."

And, umm... what if you were Japanese in the 40's?

But, yes, now that there are no more Communists, the dreaded Axis is now our BFF, drug wars remain as merely a background buzz, and all of our citizens allegedly have equal rights, we have to maintain that feeling of paranoid dread we've always had as a nation and go to war with something.

"Terrorists"! That's the thing. The new enemy to go to war against! Take a picture of the Christmas tree at Rockefeller Center and get your camera impounded if you look vaguely Middle Eastern. Take a picture of a refinery or nuke plant when there's a nice sunset and have a nice talk with Homeland Security no matter who you are.

Nothing new here at all. Just better technology.

[raouldukelives]

14. In my lifetime we've waged a few wars

Under the guise of protecting freedom. Every time we have become less free as a result.
The older I get the more it seems we took over a free country, imposed our Constitution, killed and poisoned the indigenous people, raped and spoiled the land for money and when we ran out we waged wars for new lands to spoil using the moniker of freedom but alas only for the good of Wall St.