General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWill the Proud Boys disband? Will they be rightfully tagged as a terrorist/criminal organization?
Effete Snob
(8,387 posts)By whom?
Can you explain what that is supposed to mean, in reference to some sort of legal significance?
FSogol
(45,598 posts)Sure, the Proud Boys would have to disband themselves, but the government frequently labels groups.
Give me an example of a group in this country so-labeled, and what have been the consequences for that group?
FSogol
(45,598 posts)aren't on a list? That they haven't been moved up that list? That they won't be getting increased attention? Really?
Effete Snob
(8,387 posts)...and, in particular, your implicit notion in your OP that they aren't on it. You are asking "will they be tagged", whatever that may mean, and I'm just asking you about this "tagging", how it operates, and how you know who is or isn't.
But, more importantly, the US has an unfortunate history with "guilt by association" in that regard. In this country, we do not, as a general principle, decide people's guilt, innocence, or what-have-you, by what organizations they join, what clubs they belong to, or what magazines they subscribe to, etc..
If you are unfamiliar with this unfortunate history, and the type of abuses to which it has traditionally led, then I would encourage you to do some reading about the Constitution, your rights under it, and what happens when the US gets into the business of guilt by association.
In fact, I think you don't have to go much farther beyond DU to find people harshly criticizing events in which government officials gave people additional scrutiny on the basis of organizational memberships, religious affiliations, and so on.
So, yes, I am deeply interested in this list and who else, to your knowledge is on it. If you have no such knowledge, then I really don't understand the point of your question in the OP.
You mean, like the list that keeps law-abiding Muslims with unfortunately coincidental names from flying on airplanes? You want more of that sort of thing?
comradebillyboy
(10,193 posts)metal discs attached to their ears.
Bev54
(10,098 posts)as terrorist organizations. Other governments such as Canada, NZ have already done this and virtually shut them right down. They cannot raise money anymore because anyone caught donating is in big trouble. The Canadian proud boys moved to the US because they are still allowed to operate there. It is baffling why the US does not help itself.
Ocelot II
(116,021 posts)it would have to be done by an act of Congress, and with the GOP controlling the House that won't happen. They like their domestic terrorists.
Effete Snob
(8,387 posts)...and you are smart enough to know why these sorts of fascist things are not a good idea.
In this country, we hold individuals responsible for their crimes.
We don't arrest people for belonging to the ACLU, the NAACP, etc., but not for lack of trying. I don't believe we should surrender now.
Ocelot II
(116,021 posts)It is a very slippery slope. But the GOPs reasons would have more to do with providing cover for right-wingers, even violent ones, than with protecting anyones First Amendment rights.
Effete Snob
(8,387 posts)I'd really like to know what groups people here think are going to get on that "list" in the next Republican administration, or what groups they think would have gone on it in the last one.
There are a lot of people who are comfortable with fascism as long as it breaks their way.
Effete Snob
(8,387 posts)Let me ask you a serious question.
What agency, in the US government, do you want to put in charge of deciding what groups can raise money, organize, etc.?
I really want to know your answer to this, along with whatever historical knowledge you might have about this agency doing just that sort of thing, and against whom that power has been used.
Meadowoak
(5,577 posts)Chainfire
(17,757 posts)At least their potential followers can see what can happen. Lets just hope that the judge sends a strong message.
Ocelot II
(116,021 posts)as terrorist organizations. While the PATRIOT Act defines "domestic terrorism" for the purposes of authorizing law enforcement investigations, no federal criminal offense exists which is referred to as "domestic terrorism," and therefore there are no officially-designated domestic terrorist organizations. So groups like the Proud Boys have to be prosecuted for existing crimes, and the only way to prosecute them collectively is to charge the members with conspiracy crimes. The Southern Poverty Law Center keeps a list of hate groups, https://www.splcenter.org/hate-map, and some years ago successfully sued the Klan, https://www.splcenter.org/news/2008/11/14/splc-wins-25-million-verdict-against-imperial-klans-america Interestingly, the Proud Boys sued SPLC in 2019 for defamation for designating it a hate group. https://www.npr.org/2019/02/05/691643824/proud-boys-founder-files-defamation-lawsuit-against-southern-poverty-law-center This does not seem to have gone anywhere.
Effete Snob
(8,387 posts)Because that sort of thing worked out just swell in the mid-20th century.
"Are you now, or have you ever been, a member of..."
This place sometimes....
Ocelot II
(116,021 posts)for actual harm to others without violating the Constitution.
JustAnotherGen
(32,053 posts)But in the shadows.
That said, this time America needs to win the peace.
Response to FSogol (Original post)
Hiawatha Pete This message was self-deleted by its author.