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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsI'm close to the point of just giving up and moving to a safer country with proper health care.
The right wing has pretty much destroyed my country.
OrlandoDem2
(2,066 posts)yardwork
(61,711 posts)OrlandoDem2
(2,066 posts)bucolic_frolic
(43,293 posts)and find an ex-pat American community, though many of them will be well-off right wingers
WarGamer
(12,484 posts)Marius25
(3,213 posts)Not really any better.
WarGamer
(12,484 posts)Marius25
(3,213 posts)Mr.Bill
(24,325 posts)It's getting to the point here where not much else matters, and at age 69, I doubt the problem will be solved in my lifetime. And it's quite likely to get worse.
Marius25
(3,213 posts)Not sure why picking the one with a far-right government with fascist ties is the best choice.
WarGamer
(12,484 posts)To summarize, over the last 20 years I've spent probably 5 years overseas, from China to Europe to Africa.
I'm also a HUGE history buff... particularly Roman history and Carolingian history before that...
But I wouldn't want to live in Rome...
So the rural parts of Italy offer what I'm looking for. Climate, pace of life, fresh local food and charming natives...
I'll give honorable mention to Czechia, Hungary, the Baltics and maybe... Croatia.
If I won the lotto, I'd add a 2nd or 3rd place in Dubai, it's the most awe inspiring city on the planet, IMHO. It's like being in some futuristic movie. Oh.. and it's really safe.
Marius25
(3,213 posts)I think Dubai is one of the most soulless, evil cities on Earth. A fake city for the rich built on the backs of slaves. They also hate LGBTQ people there.
And Hungary is an authoritarian country. Republicans just held CPAC there and Orban said liberals are a poison on the West.
WarGamer
(12,484 posts)I've spent weeks there...
Just respect their culture and all is good. And they've loosened up rules and laws recently... even unmarried couples are free to share hotel rooms now.
There is no homogeneous world culture or set of beliefs.
And I don't judge 1000 years of history on a leader in 2023... or the 1930's...
WarGamer
(12,484 posts)The front door of my Budapest AirBNB was probably older than Orban's grandparents.
It's silly to judge a country by a transitory government or movement.
Marius25
(3,213 posts)Leaving the US because Republicans are evil and won't do anything to make things better.
WarGamer
(12,484 posts)Orban could literally be out of power within a couple years... last time I was there was pre-Orban.
My situation would allow me to live somewhere without any gov't assistance including healthcare... so I just judge on how the places make me feel.
I find the Estonians and Latvians charming... I spent a week on Saaremaa, wandered around the castle at Kuressaare.
But the winters are cold.
Dorian Gray
(13,501 posts)hundreds of mass shootings. That doesn't exist in any of the other countries, even if they have leaders we don't agree with.
I would move to italy in a heartbeat right now. Without a doubt. (Though I wouldn't move to dubai. There is a ton of corruption there, and the lifestyle doesn't benefit women.)
I've lived in China. While I wouldn't want to move back there right now, either, it would feel a ton safer than the majority of the usa.
Oregon1947
(43 posts)WarGamer
(12,484 posts)Oregon1947
(43 posts)I hope you're not black because you won't like the experience.
WarGamer
(12,484 posts)I traveled a lot over the last 20 years for work... spent more or less time in lots of spots.
Patterson
(1,531 posts)Lochloosa
(16,068 posts)Marcus IM
(2,228 posts)Then, it becomes something different.
The Monroe Doctrine is still in-play.
Zeitghost
(3,869 posts)4x the US.
Marcus IM
(2,228 posts)I mean, I wouldn't be too happy about Americans who can't seem to fix their own country coming to use the infrastructures that citizens worked long and hard to accomplish and pay for.
Kinda like bandwagon jumping sports fans.
Victor_c3
(3,557 posts)On a whim, Ive looked into it. The idea is that you have solid enough financials that youd be a contributor to their system and not a strain.
For instance, I believe a couple of years ago Thailand requires you show a monthly income of about $2,000 a month in order to secure a residency visa there.
Marcus IM
(2,228 posts)For Americans who are not married to a Canadian, there's a 10+ year waiting line to Canada. Unless you are being persecuted in a way recognized by Canada as political asylum.
yardwork
(61,711 posts)Only half-joking.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,436 posts)keep_left
(1,792 posts)I haven't heard anything about this before.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,436 posts)too much of a burden on their healthcare system.
Canada:
Your condition is considered to cause an excessive demand if:
the health or social services needed to treat your health condition would negatively affect wait times for services in Canada, or
the services needed to treat and manage your health condition would likely cost more than the excessive demand cost threshold
Excessive demand cost threshold: 2023 cost threshold
$128,445 over 5 years (or $25,689 per year)
This is an amount that we use to decide if the cost of your condition places an excessive demand on Canadas health and social services.
New Zealand:
HIV infection
Hepatitis B-surface antigen positive and meeting criteria for anti-viral treatment in New Zealand
Hepatitis C-RNA positive and meeting criteria for anti-viral treatment in New Zealand
Malignancies of organs, skin (such as melanoma) and haematopoietic tissue, including past history of, or currently under treatment. Exceptions are:
treated minor skin malignancies
malignancies where the interval since treatment is such that the probability of recurrence is less than 10 percent
Requirement for organ transplants (with the exclusion of corneal grafts), or following organ transplant when immune suppression is required (with the exclusion of corneal grafts)
Severe, chronic or progressive renal or hepatic disorders
Musculoskeletal diseases or disorders such as osteoarthritis with a high probability of surgery in the next five years
Severe, chronic or progressive neurological disorders, including but not exclusive to:
any dementia including Alzheimer's disease
poorly controlled epilepsy
complex seizure disorder
cerebrovascular disease
cerebral palsy
paraplegia, quadriplegia
poliomyelitis
Parkinsons disease
motor neurone disease, Huntingtons disease, muscular dystrophy
prion disease
relapsing and/or progressive multiple sclerosis
Cardiac diseases, including but not exclusive to:
severe ischaemic heart disease
cardiomyopathy
valve disease with a high probability of surgical and/or other procedural intervention in the next five years
aortic aneurysm with a high probability of surgical and/or other procedural intervention in the next five years
Chronic respiratory disease, including but not exclusive to:
severe and/or progressive restrictive (including interstitial) lung disease
severe and/or progressive obstructive lung disease
cystic fibrosis
Significant or disabling hereditary disorders, including but not exclusive to:
hereditary anaemias and coagulation disorders
primary immuno-deficiencies
Gauchers disease
Severe autoimmune disease which may require treatment in New Zealand with immune-suppressant medications other than Prednisone, Methotrexate, Azathioprine or Salazopyrin
Severe (71-90 decibels) hearing loss or profound bilateral sensori-neural hearing loss after best possible correction at country of origin, where significant support is required, including cochlear implants
Severe vision impairment with visual acuity of 6/36 or beyond after best possible correction at country of origin, or a loss restricting the field of vision to 15-20 degrees where significant support is required
Severe developmental disorders or severe cognitive impairments where significant support is required, including but not exclusive to:
physical disability
intellectual disability
autistic spectrum disorders
brain injury
Major psychiatric illness and/or addiction including any psychiatric condition that has required hospitalisation and/or where significant support is required
Those with a history, diagnostic findings or treatment for MDR-TB or XDR-TB, unless they have been cleared by a New Zealand Respiratory or Infectious Diseases specialist upon review of their file or review of the applicant according to the New Zealand Guidelines for Tuberculosis Treatment
Australia:
When determining if you meet the health requirement, a Medical Officer of the Commonwealth (MOC) considers whether you have a health condition that will be a significant cost to the Australian community in terms of the health care or community services required to manage your condition.
We use per capita data about health and community service costs to work out what your condition is likely to cost over a period of time:
for temporary visa applicants, this is your period of stay
for permanent visa applicants this is generally 5 years, or 3 years if you are aged 75 or older
If you have a permanent or ongoing condition with a reasonably predictable course, the MOC will estimate what your condition will cost the community over your remaining life expectancy up to a maximum of 10 years.
Having a disease or health condition does not always mean you will not meet the health requirement due to significant costs. The likely costs will depend on what kind of disease or condition you have and how severe it is.
We will not grant you a visa if you do not meet the health requirement because your condition is likely to be a significant cost, unless a health waiver is available and exercised.
We regard costs of AUD 51,000 or more to be significant.
keep_left
(1,792 posts)Thanks for all the details!
WarGamer
(12,484 posts)Then they don't require income verification at all.
Keep 25k in there... stay as long as you want.
The weather chases me away...
Having said that... I've never been up North around Chiang Rai which is supposed to be gorgeous.
Phoenix61
(17,019 posts)during the burning season. They start burning off the fields for spring planting when the rainy season ends late Feb-early March through May-June. Between that and accidental and intentional forest fires it really, really sucks.
I want to go back and also check out Pai.
WarGamer
(12,484 posts)NowISeetheLight
(3,943 posts)$2k isnt a lot. Ive been to SE Asia before. Id look at it. The big question is would Christianistan America keep paying my VA disability and SSDI being a sinner gay person who fled totalitarianism?
RobinA
(9,894 posts)into it to, and pretty much anywhere I'd want to go has some pretty strict rules. I have no desire to go to either Central or South America. That's just trading one set of problems for another.
keep_left
(1,792 posts)...already started closing their doors to foreigners a long time ago. But you probably already knew that. Still, I know that Jesse Ventura moved to Mexico (Baja, I think). And the writer and historian Morris Berman (Why America Failed) also lives in Mexico. Both of them are pretty happy with their choices.
Whatever you do, please maintain your US citizenship and continue to vote! Most of us won't be able to escape.
Kaleva
(36,351 posts)Any nation in Africa, the Middle East, most of Asia and South America is off the list
Tom Yossarian Joad
(19,231 posts)Kaleva
(36,351 posts)When I read posts here where members talk about moving, the nations chosen are usually in Europe and some pick Canada. To date, I haven't seen one pick a nation in Africa or the Middle East.
Tom Yossarian Joad
(19,231 posts)Kaleva
(36,351 posts)"The Sultanate of Oman has been rated the fourth most secure country in the world. Oman also occupies the 5th global position as a crime-free country, according to the Global Database Index (Numbeo). Oman received 80.3 points in the security level and 19.7 points in scale measuring the spread of crime."
https://timesofoman.com/article/125597-oman-named-one-of-the-worlds-safest-countries#:~:text=The%20Sultanate%20of%20Oman%20has,measuring%20the%20spread%20of%20crime.
Fir those concerned about safety, Oman should be in serious consideration but it's never mentioned.
Tom Yossarian Joad
(19,231 posts)Kaleva
(36,351 posts)You can get a license to drink in your own home or you can go to venues like hotels or restaurants that are licensed to serve to non-mulims.
Tom Yossarian Joad
(19,231 posts)a license to have a bottle of wine in your home?
Not appealing to me.
Kaleva
(36,351 posts)Tom Yossarian Joad
(19,231 posts)Tom Yossarian Joad
(19,231 posts)Kaleva
(36,351 posts)I'd have to double check but I believe Costa Rica will be hard hit by climate change.
Personally, I think Costa Rica would be a good choice.
Tom Yossarian Joad
(19,231 posts)Wales, Jamaica, Scotland Australia, Canada, Reykjavík...
Kaleva
(36,351 posts)For me, any nation I'd pick would be a place where my SSDI could provide for a decent living
EX500rider
(10,864 posts)US: ranked 61st in homicides, 6.4 per 100,000
Jamaica: ranked 2nd, 44.7 per 100,000
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate
TomSlick
(11,109 posts)Kaleva
(36,351 posts)The choice is often Canada or a nation in Europe.
TomSlick
(11,109 posts)What does "majority white" have to do with it?
Kaleva
(36,351 posts)Japan is an advanced Western nation with low crime but I haven't seen any list it as a possible destination .
I have yet to see a single African nation mentioned even though several African nations have a better global peace index score then the US dies
https://wisevoter.com/country-rankings/safest-countries-in-the-world/
meadowlander
(4,406 posts)particularly for people at an age where attaining fluency in a new language is a significant factor in their employability.
Kaleva
(36,351 posts)I had two siblings who lived and worked in the UAE for years. They had no trouble knowing only English.
Chainfire
(17,643 posts)My family has been here for 283 years, I am not going to let a bunch of stupid rednecks run me off. If forced to choose between being a hammer and a nail, I will be a hammer.
Cutting and running isn't an option.
Unless one is a cowardly RW Cuban "exile" looking to leach off of the special socialized programs the US created just for them.
JI7
(89,269 posts)and register to vote there while still getting income from current blue state if I can figure out how.
yardwork
(61,711 posts)There are deep blue communities here, the weather is pretty good year-round, we have mountains, ocean, forests, lots of diversity in plants and animals and people.
We have a little problem with gerrymandering and a right-wing coup so we need all the Democratic votes we can get!
Lettuce Be
(2,337 posts)Been a long time since I've had occasion to say that. I cannot see things improving for quite some time, but they will improve. There is no way the goons will win. Meanwhile, some members of Congress seem hellbent on trying to destroy this country, all to own the libs.
Fighting abortion on one hand and allowing open slaughter on the other is not a good look.
Marius25
(3,213 posts)Abortion and open slaughter take a backseat to the economy for most people.
Marius25
(3,213 posts)I just don't have any good options since my job doesn't transfer overseas and I'm not sure what to pursue to make it easier.
RKP5637
(67,112 posts)future holds.
SYFROYH
(34,183 posts)Baked Potato
(7,733 posts)doesnt work out.
Zeitghost
(3,869 posts)Panama is not the place to look.
Baked Potato
(7,733 posts)I was just lipping in with an option.
Panama has a Pensioner Visa which is a very attractive option for those wanting to get away.
Zeitghost
(3,869 posts)I enjoy traveling to Central America, I'm actually on vacation in Mexico and feel completely safe. But I also understand just about everywhere south of the border has more violence. The squad of M-16 toting soldiers out tonight on the Malecon tonight was a reminder of that.
Elessar Zappa
(14,063 posts)Same with Chile. Both have murder rates lower than the US.
EX500rider
(10,864 posts)US, ranked 61st - 6.4 homicides per 100,000
Costa Rica ranked 36th- 11.2 per 100,000
Lovely country though, I lived there 5 years
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate
GuppyGal
(1,748 posts)PJMcK
(22,050 posts)Spain and Portugal, among other countries, offer the Golden visa. If you buy a home you can be fast-tracked for citizenship.
There are more details, of course, but my wife and I have discussed this possibility.
Mr. Ected
(9,670 posts)My wife and I planned to split our time between here and there in retirement, but if the US continues this dangerous veering off course, it may end up being a whole lot less here and more there.
NowISeetheLight
(3,943 posts)Ill admit Ive been looking at how to emigrate to one of the Scandinavian countries. My grandparents emigrated thru Ellis Island and settled in Northern Minnesota. They were beyond dirt poor farmers. Ive been looking on Ancestry.com and working on a genealogy tree. Ive tracked a lot of relatives back to Scandinavia. Looking at my country of choice Id have to move there with a residence permit for five years. My income is stable with VA disability and SSDI. Ill admit Ive considered it. I see America headed to a Constitutional Convention where theyve gerrymandered the way to becoming Christianistan. Theyll change the Constitution. Thatll be it.
bluestarone
(17,043 posts)My country IS worth fighting for. I refuse to just let these EVIL BASTARDS take it away.
treestar
(82,383 posts)what other countries would allow you to live there and why?
roamer65
(36,747 posts)Would not surprise me to see blue states set up a single payor health insurance consortium in a few years, then hold talks with Canada to harmonize it with their system.
The would increase the risk pool size and provide better benefits.
GuppyGal
(1,748 posts)Tom Yossarian Joad
(19,231 posts)I have the money but I'm in ill health at the moment. Waiting to see if it improves.
MySideOfTown
(225 posts)English is their language.
You have to deposit $25K in one of their banks.
That's about it.
You can collect all your SSA benefits.
WhiteTara
(29,722 posts)the options are becoming more and more scarce.
They dont want us.
hunter
(38,328 posts)... New Zealand, Canada, etc., with easy paths to citizenship.
We stayed because those jobs were a long way from California where our parents and most of our siblings lived.
Years later we started to get slammed around by the kind of medical problems that randomly fall out of the sky, resulting in $100,000 medical bills that supposedly good insurance only partially covers. My wife ran one COBRA to the bitter end. There was no way we could have paid for her chemo ourselves, but fortunately she was accepted to our state's high risk insurance pool just days before her next treatment was due. It all worked out, the medicine worked, but it nearly bankrupt us.
The United States is not a civilized nation. Our "health care system" is an incredibly stressful thing to navigate. I think many very ill people, those who don't have strong advocates, simply give up and die. It almost feels as if the system is designed that way.
The situation with mental health care is even worse.
Obamacare improved the situation, but I believe the Deplorables, the Social Darwinists, and certain Christians are holding us back from further progress. The deplorable don't want "their" taxes paying for the medical care of people they hate, people they hate for racist, religious, or political reasons. The Social Darwinist don't want to "waste" money on people who are not "productive" by their evil standards. Certain Christians believe you wouldn't be sick if their cruel and capricious god favored you, or maybe that he's giving you some kind of test to make you stronger or purify your soul for heaven should you die. These Christians also love to wash themselves of their sins (and sometimes enrich themselves) with their charity. Damn them all.
Many nations have better health care systems than we do. To civilize and improve the U.S.A. health care system we have many proven systems from around the world to choose from. But maybe that's another thing that stands in the way of progress -- U.S. American Exceptionalism, the belief that somehow we're different than the rest of the world in some special way. God Bless America.
brooklynite
(94,735 posts)As much as you may feel oppressed, you're not a refugee, and most Countries you're likely thinking of won't let you move permanently or would require a major investment.
DFW
(54,437 posts)Germany, for example, has a patchwork quilt style of health care insurance that boils down to "First Class" and "Coach Class," where the distribution is about 10% (first) to 90% (coach).
First is "Privat," which means you pay up front and submit your bills to the insurance company afterward, and hope to get reimbursed. Some things, they will, but you're at their mercy. When I moved to Germany, I got quoted 30,000 a year for that, or about $33,000 at today's exchange rate. I don't qualify for the other, as I am not a German citizen and I don't work for a German employer. My wife was eligible for German Medicare when she hit 65, but I had to jump in to pay her medical insurance between the time she took early retirement at age 60 and the day she turned 65. She wasn't covered otherwise, and that was somewhere around 550 a month. The good part is that what I was paying for DID cover everything, which mattered a lot when she was diagnosed with her second round of cancer at age 64, and spent nearly two months in specialized hospital. I just rely on my Blue Cross back in Texas, which is to say, I have practically no medical insurance at all. If I'm diagnosed with something serious that doesn't have to be treated instantly, I'll have to fly back to Dallas to hope to be covered.
While it is true that you CAN live in some countries without learning the language, you condemn yourself to being a cultural exile, unable to be a part of the daily social life where you are. Even if you move to Hungary or Japan or Sweden, you need to speak the local language to really fit in. Believe me, I've done it. It's pretty much the same thing as trying to live in the USA if all you can speak is Hungarian, Japanese or Swedish. Not quite as bad, but you ARE limited. Swedish is easy to learn. I went from zero to near-fluent in a year, and that was from taking only three hours a week in college. I mean REALLY easy to learn. Japanese and Hungarian, being non-European languages (from a lingustic point of view--I know full well where Hungary is) are extremely complicated.
I guess it's safer here. The rules are different. Theft is not considered a crime in Germany. If you have been robbed, and tell the cops the thief didn't use a gun, the response will be something like, "so what are you bothering us for?"