Billionaires are self-made men and women, right?

[True Dough]

So, in that case...

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

1. Works for me.

[brooklynite]

2. How much would you leave them with?

What's an acceptable amount; especially if they earned it rather than inherited it?

[dpibel]

3. Jim Dandy to the rescue!

Think of the poor billionaires! Those spunky, All-American strivers who pulled themselves up entirely by their own bootstraps.

Here's a fun quiz back at you:

Name me a currently living billionaire who "earned it."

I don't think you even get how utterly ironic your challenge is.

[BOSSHOG]

4. My Jim Dandy oh My Jim Dandy

Saw them play in Fayetteville Arkansas about 1978. Awesome showmen. Their candle shown bright for a short while.

[Higherarky]

20. I met Jim Dandy a few times

A nice guy he was not! The only musician I ever met who was thoroughly unlikeable.

[BOSSHOG]

30. Jim

Was probably high most of his life, no patience for “fans.” And was very fond of himself. Counterintuitive sober thought. But I did like their music.

[Higherarky]

31. Yeah, I wasn't a "fan", babe

But thanx for sharing your thought.

[WarGamer]

6. Define earning it.

[dpibel]

23. Adding sufficient value

to justify the amount.

We all know this is angels dancing on pinheads.

Bill Gates was not a maker, a coder, an inventor, an innovator. His single brilliance (and I'll never believe he didn't get this from somebody at his dad's law firm) was licensing instead of selling. And, of course, utter ruthlessness and lack of conscience.

Elon Musk is utterly rich because he made some fortunate guesses at fortunate times. Not because he's a genius or a visionary. He had some money and threw it into the right pile at the right moment.

I'll stick with: You earn it if you add something of identifiable value sufficient to justify the money you extract.

Being a ruthless person with no conscience and thus willing to fuck over anyone you can does not, in my mind, count.

Your friend may well be the nicest most saintly person who ever walked the face of the earth and has extracted his wealth without overtly fucking anyone over. The fact that there is one good rich person really doesn't mean that all rich people are equally saintly.

[WarGamer]

25. Oh I agree... lots of them are obnoxious.

The person who cures cancer won't get rich... it'll be the CEO and the majority shareholders of the company...

Wealth has never been about designing a widget, making it, marketing it and selling it.

Fantastic wealth has always been about exploitation and near criminality... look at the turn of the century US robber-barons.

[brooklynite]

14. J.K. Rowling

And my question stands. You didn't advocate taxing billionaires, you advocated "taking their money away". What about people with $900 Million? $500 Million? $100 Million? $50?

[dpibel]

21. I advocated what?

You do understand about threading and authors of posts and such, right?

Please point me to where I advocated doing anything to billionaires.

I just responded to your archness.

But good one! JK is somebody who actually started from nothing. WarGarmer's citing his friend. So, cool!

There are some citeable billionaires who really did start from nothing.

There's also a shitpile of them who pretend they started with nothing but actually started with quite a bit. Elon Musk. Bill Gates. Donald Trump.

Damn! I did three and you did one. Now where are we?

[Crepuscular]

43. ...

Jimmy Buffett recently became a Billionaire. Pretty hardworking dude that came from very modest beginnings. Looks like he had a pretty good time along the way, as well. Still touring at age 76, despite being a Billionaire. Shrewd businessman to parlay his Carribean Troubadour image into a brand that became extremely valuable.

[Celerity]

35. Rihanna

Name me a currently living billionaire who "earned it."

Rihanna - SOS (Nevin's Glam Club Mix)

[Sympthsical]

42. That woman is an entire mood

I'm not sure she's ever put out a bad song.

I've been using "Lift Me Up" as the melancholy decompress song all spring. When you're so busy and overwhelmed, you have that little mood cliff once in awhile after a long day and get in a very quiet down mood. Usually in the kitchen for some reason. So I'll throw that song while chopping vegetables. Spend 10 minutes feeling sad, then back to "Do we have eggs?"

She's one of the few celebrities out there you're genuinely pleased for when they're slaying it.

[Celerity]

44. Rihanna - Lift Me Up (Robert Georgescu And White Remix) + some other good remixes (different genres)

Rihanna - Lift Me Up (Remix by Felix)

Rihanna - Lift Me Up (Jonthree Remix)

Rihanna - Lift Me Up (Liam Pfeifer Remix)

Rihanna - Lift Me Up (Xpect Remix)

Lift Me Up -Rihanna (DJ Wallies Amapiano Remix)

Rihanna - Lift Me Up (Edson Pride Remix)

Rihanna - Lift Me Up ( Amapiano Remix) Lord Publo RSA

Rihanna (ft. The Notorious B.I.G.) - Lift Me Up (Remix) // You're All I Need (R&B Version)

Rihanna - Lift Me Up (Kue Remix)

[WarGamer]

5. I have a friend who's closer to 3 commas than 2...

Self made. People don't understand what makes these guys tick.

I'm going to ignore the silver spoon rich, I don't know any.

My friend wakes up at like 430AM every morning, hits the gym and shower. Sits down to a paper WSJ (hates digital publications) and eats whatever the Chef whips up... usually something light.

Then he gets to work. Traditional work? No. He makes projects for himself. He buries himself in his work. There are frequently contractors on his property doing something or another. He goes over invoices and estimates with a fine tooth comb. Gives them a hard time if they're gouging.

His normal mode is "money". We're in a restaurant and he'll start telling me how they could be more successful if they did a, b and c.

Sometimes spends hours on the phone with his investment people.


Summary: These people aren't wired like you and I (well at least not me)

My friend doesn't sit during the day. Says his parents and grandparents were the same way. Sit at night.

100% go go go.

If I had that $$ I'd sleep a clean 8h a night and be wine tasting in rural Italy.

[TheRealNorth]

9. Don't know about that

I know poor and middle income people that work hard, get up early, and are up late.

Sounds like your friend is not a loafing failson, but there is a lot more to acquiring wealth, and it usually involves luck, skill, the right connections, and usually a combination of the 3.

[WarGamer]

10. Agreed.

But I mean... you've got to give credit somewhere.

The way our system works there will always be those giving others in their "community" a helping hand up to the greater opportunities.

It's not just the hard work, lots of people work hard.

It's the constant business drive.

I'll just focus on my own life, because it's the one I know best.

I've been lucky and have been offered many opportunities in my lifetime.

When that opportunity involved hard work and something I wasn't excited about, I declined.

I also lucked out in my final career as a friend referred me to their mgmt.

I once read a book about turning points, where most people have maybe 8-10 crossroads moments in their life. What you do in those crossroads situations determines where you go next.

I'm not built like my friend. I have a great retirement mapped out, here still in my 50's. I have ENOUGH and I'm comfortable. Some people are never comfortable and never stop.

[brooklynite]

15. I'm not a billionaire...

...but my wife and I have more money than I suspect most people in this thread would think we need. We both worked hard in our careers (without oppressing the masses), don't have children (that's $500,000 right there), have lived below our means (we drive a hatchback) and have invested thoughtfully.

I tend to find income resentment a lazy "lets all pile on" topic, especially because nobody seems to think through what the "correct" amount of wealth is.

[questionseverything]

16. Not more than 50% ever of yearly income

[brooklynite]

17. But you miss the point...

Billionaires PAY taxes on income. The thrust of this thread is there should be a tax (or seizure) of wealth.

[questionseverything]

18. I don't agree with seizing, but the death tax needs increased

[brooklynite]

19. No objection from me.

[WarGamer]

26. The death tax is easily skirted.

Just divest as you age.

[dpibel]

28. "Death Tax" is a right-wing meme

Just want to remind everybody!

[dpibel]

29. So beautifully naive

Billionaires PAY taxes on A FRACTION of income.

C'mon. Warren Buffet says that.

And, really. I'm pretty sure you know the difference between ordinary income and capital gains and how they are taxed differently.

I know you do, because you've let us all know that you have a lot of both.

[WarGamer]

34. I'm a firm supporter of paying a small % on your net worth, annually.

Holding $1.2B in stock, 15M in cash, 20M in real estate, 5 million in misc...

1.6B net worth, pay up even 1% and that's $16M which is probably more than he pays in income tax... because he doesn't HAVE a regular income.

[WarGamer]

36. A billionaire can have ZERO income.

Example:

You hold $2B in AAPL shares and $2B in TSLA shares...

In 2022 you exercised some options, cashing out 250 million dollars and paid tax on it.

Now... with a net worth of $4B+ you can pay ZERO income tax for the next 10 years, spending $25M a year.

OR

Take out loans using your stocks as collateral. No taxation at all.

ZERO income tax. I believe Musk did this a few years ago.

[dpibel]

27. Ooh! I've got this one!

The "correct" amount of wealth is that amount of wealth that does not depend on anyone else being poor.

Also. Don't you think there's a difference between "income resentment" (whatever that is) and questioning the aggregation of absurd amounts of wealth?

You do understand the difference between income and wealth, right?

Well of course you do. You've got both.

Good for you.

It's odd that you represent yourself as a humble, hard-workin' fella who made good decisions and have the right amount of wealth (I mean, you probably deserve more, but assuredly not less) and you are sad that people think billionaires (one of which, I believe, you are not) have too much money.

This is a bit like the gunner arguments: Yew cain't talk about guns if'n yew don't know the diffrince atween a clip and a magazine!"

But here it's "You can't critique obscene accumulations of wealth unless you can tell me EXACTLY the proper amount of wealth."

I'd suggest this: If there are people who can hardly live and people who have more money than they can ever spend, there's something wrong. We can work on titrating the precise middle ground.

But you can't expect to be taken seriously if you say "There's not a thing wrong here if you can't give me the precise number for properly wealthy."

That's just silly.

[MerryBlooms]

37. I remember posts bragging about him being our very own 1%er

With connections. So now, he's just a simple working-class millionaire, working the daily grind and paying taxes like every other millionaire. Give the guy a break! He's rubbing elbows and shoveling money for our benefit. And he's not going to let us forget it! 😄

[Yavin4]

32. Is your friend a billionaire?

I ask because most people don't have a strong grasp on how much money $1 billion is. They think that you can simply work for it, but that's not even remotely true.

[WarGamer]

33. Not yet... probbaly the next market rally will get him there.

And you're 100% on target.

$100M net worth is really rich.

Creep up on a billion and...

He co-founded a company everyone here would know the name of... maybe 30 years ago.

[ExWhoDoesntCare]

38. Gee, I used to wake up at 5 am every morning, get ready for work, and then

To work out, then get ready for work, and be at my lowly office clerk job at 7 a.m.

I'd get off at 3:30, and race across town to get to my SECOND full time job at a record store by 4, and work until 12:30 am. I was working six fricking days a week, and the only reason it wasn't 7 is because most states had blue laws that didn't permit working on Sundays for retail.

Yet, somehow, despite working so hard, I could barely afford my apartment, car, gas and food. I had to work those two jobs, just to get by.

But I had to have worked less than that rich scumbag you know who was lucky enough to have parents who could send him to a uni where he could meet other rich filth that he could network with to get cushy jobs, er--"demanding" jobs where he had to work so bloody hard to get so bloody rich.

Unlike loafing idiots like me, amirite?

[WarGamer]

39. Hard work doesn't make people wealthy... I already said that above.

It's a mixture of luck, connections and inner talent.

One of my hobbies has always been studying exceptional people... outliers.

Exceptionally good or bad. Mostly military history figures but I'm yet to run into a "normal regular person" who became exceptional.

Outliers are called that for a reason.

[WarGamer]

40. Also I wanted to add...

When I graduated High School, I told my Mom that I had sat in on an SAT test just for shits and giggles in the school cafeteria.

No prep, scored a 1380 on the old scale. 96th percentile.

Asked if I could go to college. She said no, "you know your father doesn't believe in college."

He was a great depression era man who believed in get a job at the factory and work 40 years for a pension and gold watch.

So a few years later, I'm working full time and splitting an apartment with a buddy. I sign up for a full semester at the Community College, like 20 units. Got straight A's

Go back to my Mom, look at my grades. Will you guys pay for college?

Answer was still no.

So I cash flowed my way through 2 years of CC and then 2 years at a Cal State school for my Engineering degree. My employer let me work a night shift and weekends to work around my day classes.

That Engineering Degree, more than a decade later directly led me to the opportunity to work for a major BioPharma company, travel the world and retire in my mid 50's. And they sent me to school for 2 more Degrees.

I never had "it" in me to desire the kind of wealth my friend achieved as I value my free time and like to do nothing as much as possible.

Bottom line... lots of people work around difficulties in their lives. You don't need rich parents or a silver spoon.

[ret5hd]

7. On a similar note:

ALL money flows upwards…you get paid, you pay your bills. Electric, rent, mortgage, etc…it goes to the top.

You have some bit left over…you go to a movie…it goes to the top.

You purchase a lemonade from the child in the neighborhood…she bought lemonade mix etc from the grocery store…it goes to the top.

EVERY cent returns to the top.

So why won’t they pay you more? It all returns to them eventually anyway, right?

Because your dirty grubby hands taint the money, make it smelly and nasty and germy.

The BEST money is money that the government gives them directly…bailouts, tax cuts, deductions, etc. Non stinky, clean, virgin dollars.

Then they spend some paltry amount on wages, then wait for it to return to them.

[WarGamer]

8. Just to add...

The wealthy spend a small % of their money.

Their money essentially "disappears". Win the lottery? Advisors tell you to put X% in Gov't bonds and X% in Mutual Funds and ETF's.

It's not like that wealthy person is taking his money and "Making it rain" over the community.

[quakerboy]

11. Personally, I think we should make them fancy coins

Once you get over, say, 2 billion.. The US mint creates fancy Billion dollar coins, and you get to trade in your over the top wealth for one. Get over the limit again? Trade in for another coin. Whoever has the most is the richest. The winner. With a stack of fancy coins to prove it. And if the fortunes ever turn so that they have no more regular billion, they can cash one in. In the mean while the usable money and possession of mind altering amounts of power comes back into the system.

[xocetaceans]

12. How about a hard upper limit? Hit the upper limit and roll around back to zero. That would...

potentially incentivize one to put the brakes on greed, if they stood to lose it all by taking too much.

There should be no gods among men in a democracy. If they want an oligarchy or a tyranny, let them buy an island somewhere and attempt to convince others to defend it for them. "Here in Elonopia, we are sworn to defend his beaches to the death!" might be a tough sell.

[SCantiGOP]

13. If you're old enough to remember William F Buckley

Founder of National Review, but he would have never tolerated Trump.
I remember him saying once onTV that if you seized all of the money and property in the US, and distributed it evenly to everyone, the same people would be rich and poor after a few years.
I was about 12 years old, and my Dad was very conservative, but I remember him yelling Bullshit and going on a rant about inherited wealth.

[yaesu]

22. Good. nt

[Wounded Bear]

24. Most rich folks got their money the old-fashioned way, they inherited it...

[DFW]

41. If you're so confident about that

Go earn your own billion instead of taking somebody else‘s. This is not an election victory, and you‘re not Donald Trump.