There isn't a 'masculinity crisis.' Conservative men are just babies

[babylonsister]

There isn't a 'masculinity crisis.' Conservative men are just babies
Hunter for Daily Kos
Daily Kos Staff
Friday May 26, 2023 · 5:26 PM EDT
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A new episode of The New York Times’ “Matter of Opinion” podcast featuring Ross Douthat, heaven help us all, has just dropped. It asks the truly most pressing question of our times: "What is the point of men in the 21st century?" Yeah, the Times is "exploring the crisis of masculinity in America," and asking how men might "stay relevant," which is something normal people think about all the time, or at least some of the time.

If any of that makes you want to actually listen to the show or even read the transcript, there is probably something wrong with you; listening to the voices behind The New York Times opinion pages debate what makes men manly is, on the scale of ear-bleedingly terrible things, roughly akin to asking the Kardashians to weigh in on mine safety regulations or listening to Augusto Pinochet talk for an hour about knitted tea cozies.

I will spare you the details from the transcript, other than the Times crew pondering to themselves why women don't like accused rapist and performative misogynist Andrew Tate and do like men who are the complete f–king opposite of that, and what's going to happen to all the little boys who want to grow up and have muscles and girlfriends and sports cars.

If you were to make it through the first third of the segment, though, you would reach the part where Douthat gets to weigh in with a bit of amateur anthropology, grousing that with the decline of heavy manufacturing and rise of the service economy, men are "in a crisis" because "[t]heir skill sets, the benefits of their greater upper-body strength, and so on are no longer as economically useful."

And, later: "Men essentially have a kind of physical condition that makes them poorly suited for the sort of service-based economy, office jobs, all of these kinds of things, to say nothing of changes in social life."

Oh dear God, now conservatives want us to start handing out handicapped parking spaces to men with the "physical condition" of being unable to fully use their upper body strength. What the hell is the point of being a man if you can't lift things?

That was the point where I bowed out. If you think you have a stronger stomach than me when it comes to conservatives making up new existential crises to whine about, then you can listen to however much more of it you want to, just so long as we stipulate here that I warned you, I really damn well did, and any further exposure to Douthat is your own damn fault.

Still, though, I think it is important to answer the question the Times manufactured for itself, in between labored and evidence-averse stories suggesting that the real problems of the day are that trans children are getting too much medical care and other conservative-premised gibberish.

There is no "crisis of masculinity" in America. It does not exist. It is made up, just as it has been made up at every other point in history including 1.) when women were allowed to vote, 2.) when women began to enter the "workforce" in slightly larger numbers than in the decade before that, or 3.) when women were able to open bank accounts without their husbands' permissions. There are wonderful old-timey comics featuring sad-sack men in dresses crying about their fate when those other historical trends poked at their fragile emotions.

The problem in America is not that the menfolk are adrift due to cultural changes that do not allow them to fully use their upper body strength. The problem is not that the womenfolk are looking at the astonishingly scuzzy Andrew Tate with disgust while turning their gazes instead to men who know how to clean themselves and/or own slacks.

The problem is that conservative men are big gigantic whining babies about everything, whimpering to themselves whenever any event happens in the world that does not revolve around them and their own personal desires.

The "crisis" is that liberal men have taken all the masculinity for themselves while conservative men work themselves up into crying, flag-waving tantrums whenever cartoon candy mascots show up with less sexy footwear than they had been hoping for. The Andrew Tates of the world are the least manly men there are, and the "crisis" is a modern conservative fetishization of so-called "masculinity" that considers any cultural reference other than low burping sounds to be an affront against their "way of life."

Conservative men are the biggest snowflakes on the planet right now. They're infantile in their presumptions of what "manhood" is supposed to be. Being a "man," to the American right, means being able to shoot people who knock on your front door. It means lying about elections when elections don't go your way. It means "protecting" your family by making sure any LGBTQ+ children in your child's school are punished good and hard if they so much as remind anyone else of their existence.

Conservative manhood is shooting a case of beer because of some momentary corporate acknowledgement of someone who Is Not Them. It's sucking up to the most transparent grifting political crook of the last century because he makes up insulting nicknames for the other candidates and, to a manly man, that's just about the most manly behavior anyone on the right can think of.

The "crisis of masculinity" in America is because an entire segment of the "manly" conservative population can't handle setbacks like "wear a mask in public to keep other people from dying during a national crisis" or "how about you let gay men exist without wetting your goddamn pants every time someone references one in conversation.” It's an entire movement of cowering snowflakes who do shit like this and think it's being masculine, instead of being over-the-top “South Park” satire about what your bullshit "movement" thinks it is.

more...

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2023/5/26/2171586/-There-isn-t-a-masculinity-crisis-Conservative-men-are-just-babies

[Drum]

1. I'm Drum, and I agree with this message.

…especially the bolded parts.

[GreenWave]

2. Yeppers.

My two pusillanimous younger brothers are Trumper fools and supreme cry babies. They did not fair so well during the estate where I was executor.

"Did you hasten their deaths by constantly mooching off them leaving them unable to ward off death? " Both of them were in trouble with the law and in no position to appear in court for fear of incarceration.

[Rustynaerduwell]

3. Afraid of getting cooties from a beer can.

That's how masculine they really are.

[TheBlackAdder]

17. They already have those cooties, they're just in denial.

[ms liberty]

4. This. n/t

[dalton99a]

5. Kick

[Pacifist Patriot]

6. So true!

[Diamond_Dog]

7. K&R

Great essay!

[ITAL]

8. I'm pretty sure

Testosterone levels for men in the US and Europe have been going down a couple of decades now. I seem to remember reading a some articles on this a few years back. There were a variety of reasons thrown out (diet, lifestyle, chemicals in the food, lack of manual labor jobs, etc., etc. )for why that might be but scientists are not sure why that is.

[JanMichael]

12. Carrying too much body fat has a monster impact on testosterone

https://www.health.harvard.edu/mens-health/obesity-unhealthy-and-unmanly

It is international as overall body fat % increases every decade. Even skinny fat can drop testosterone if the fat is belly fat.

Then there was a post on DU recently that had articles about the loss of masculinity starting WAY back in the early 19th century.

So I guess the only real men were pre industrial knights bare knuckle boxers and Neanderthals.

[Walleye]

9. And their idol is a vain orange haystack who spends two hours a day on his hair and make up

They really are whiners. As far as anthropology, I read somewhere that women enjoyed relative equality in society until the introduction of the horse drawn plow, which was too heavy for most women to handle. Then women started to experience the subjugation we know now. It’s time we got a little of our own back. I do enjoy hearing men whine about things being not fair, boys are brought up with the concept of fairness. We girls know it doesn’t exist, and we don’t expect it

[tanyev]

36. It's because he looked so virile and manly in the drawings for his NFT trading cards!

[lindysalsagal]

10. Great post. Stop reading my mind!

Snowflakes.

[Maeve]

11. You can find the same fears in the 19th century

Fear that factory and office work was making men weak, so organized sports and 'muscular Christianity ' were to be embraced. And the warrior ethic.
I think it's a fear of civilization

[Bernardo de La Paz]

13. By Douthat's logic, Women Must Rule Men

Douthat moans that men are not suitable for office work but should be doing physical labour.

Ruling over people, including over men, is office work not physical labour.

Thus women should rule men and men should do housework, especially cleaning.

[Celerity]

41. New York Times' Ross Douthat longs to restore the white elite -- well, here it is

Columnist sneers at diversity, claims the WASPs were better rulers. Maybe his problem with Trump is bad manners

https://www.salon.com/2018/12/10/new-york-times-ross-douthat-longs-to-restore-the-white-elite-yet-pretends-to-oppose-trump/

[2naSalit]

14. A cultural mistake...

They have made a social faction where narcissism is your ticket to entry. They claim the ills of the condition are their strengths and insist that the rest of society march along with their parade or they'll fuck you up. Since most wealthy men have become wealthy with this belief in their importance and self appointed divinity, much of our laws have been fashioned to ensure that it stays that way. Others are only allowed to participate with permission.

[Stargazer99]

52. You figured it out! Now the rest of you wake up

[NickB79]

15. Ironically, this author proves the masculinity crisis trying to deny it

Men are raised to be emotionally stunted. No ability to cry, hug each other, etc. Suck up your emotions, bury them, until you die of a heart attack at 55. And when men are told they need to adapt to the 21st century, behave and express emotions they have little experience using, and predictably fuck them up, we have authors like this calling them babies. Basically, there is no masculinity crisis if you just suck it up, which IS THE ENTIRE REASON WE HAVE SAID CRISIS! This isn't a constructive way to get through to men, many of whom would be receptive to help if offered. It has the opposite effect, hardening them to double down on what they learned as boys.

Toxic masculinity has damaged generations of men by pigeonholing them into roles from birth to death, and many men that recognize it and try to escape get hammered back into that role.

Does this give conservatives a free pass to be assholes? Absolutely not. But unless you realize how those men became how they are, you can't prevent them from creating another generation of men just like them.

I'm speaking from experience. It's taken me 20 years to let go of the shit my dad, uncles, and grandfather instilled in me about what it means to "be a man". If I hadn't left my rural little town and their influence, there's no doubt I'd be a Tucker Carlson MAGA follower like them. And when I try to talk to old high school buddies, I see the damage a lifetime of emotional suppression has done to them. It's sad. As boys we laughed, played, hugged, cried. Now they're angry, violent men ready to fight over any offense.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

20. Good post. Simple to write an article like this, making fun of these guys and we all cheer along

But, bottom-line, we ignore the phenomenon at our own peril.

[GenThePerservering]

51. That is a good point

there is a lot of indoctrination, and boys/young men aren't given the tools to become adults. Just as girls are taught to be weak.

However, I think a lot is also fear of equality - it is only by suppression and segregation of women can men feel superior. Take that away and they just collapse into whiny babyhood. Well adjusted men don't worry about that, or if they struggle a bit, they know it and work to come to terms with it.

We need to raise boys better so they have access to ALL of their abilities, not just the narrow 'on/off'.

[gulliver]

16. Not sure this kind of stuff is going to get us more votes

The tendency to categorize other identities and distill a meaning for them that promotes the formation of higher proof "rage rotgut" is one we should avoid if we value our livers.

I'm not sure why we would choose to confront all of the many foolishnesses of Republicanism at the wall of masculinity. It's extremely bad strategy. It's like aiming to bruise their fists with our faces.

Is there a "crisis of masculinity?" Well, yes and no. There's a crisis of yacking about it; that's for sure. I'm actually glad a cowardly, conniving, twerp like Josh Hawley decided to run to the vanguard on the issue for the Republicans. That must bum them out. He's going to sink the whole thing.

[Lonestarblue]

18. I rarely read Douthat's columns because he constantly takes potshots at liberals and pushes

his religious shtick. I don’t need to read his version of how Democrats have abandoned religion and aren’t morally fit to lead the nation. If you believe that women and LGBTQ have rights, you have abandoned religion!

Josh Hawley—the epitome of a dweeb—also has a book on masculinity and its loss. When I think of Hawley, all I can envision is him running to get away from his friends the insurrectionists on January 6. How masculine of him!

[DFW]

19. Usual GOP word hijacking. Douthat wouldn't know a conservative if he were in a phone booth with one

They hate saying "Republican," because it makes them too easy to identify, but calling Republicans "conservative" is an outright violation of the Truth in Advertising Act. They are NOT conservative. It's really that simple. Just because Tucker Carlson and Richard Viguerie (and, apparently, Douthat) like to use the term, so as not to reveal their true allegiance, it doesn't make any of these clowns "conservative," just radical right-wingers. To paraphrase an old adage, speaking at CPAC doesn't make them consewrvative any more than being inside a garage makes them cars. What they really hate is what the dictionary does to their charade.

This has always been my answer to their phony use of the term "conservative:"

I am your classic conservative, at least as defined in a dictionary of the English language (as opposed to Republicanese or Foxese).

I still work for the same outfit that recruited me out of college in 1975. I have been with the same wonderful woman since 1974. We have raised two solid, intelligent children who have grown up, think independently, did well in their respective colleges, and have jobs in which they earn their own living. They are both in stable, long-term relationships, and are well-respected in their chosen fields.

I am risk-averse, and do not like to make rash, un-thought-out decisions. I have no debts. I have no addictions, not even to alcohol, religion, gambling, or nicotine. My favorite American philosopher is the 18th century Thomas Jefferson.

I am the epitome of “conservative.” Why am I a Democrat? Simple: I do not believe that having a different ethnic background, belief, or income makes one a superior or an inferior being to myself.

Phony conservatives hate hearing that. Good.

[planetc]

21. I'm glad you raised this topic. I think the most masculine thing a man can do is ...

change a baby's diaper while smiling and making "goo-goo" noises. Also, taking the garbage/recycling out to the curb without being reminded. Also actually knowing how to run a washing machine so that the clothes come out the same color they went in. Also being able to cook things that have some nutritional value and that kids will eat. It's easy to start a baby--the real test comes after it's born. See "How to dad" on Utube.

[Stargazer99]

53. Now that is a man!

[Uncle Joe]

22. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread babylonsister

[usonian]

23. From "If Life is a Game, These Are the Rules":

Rule Seven:
Others are only Mirrors of You

You cannot love or hate something about another person unless it reflects something you love or hate about yourself.

------
Hence, men are taught to project their inner fears and weaknesses onto others.

A strong person enables others to succeed.
A weak person tries to cut others down to their size.

The Buddha counseled men (in this case young Sigala) to
• Be helpful and protective to others
• Be even-tempered
• Give good advice and encourage good behavior
• Be sympathetic towards others

These are the qualities of REAL men.
More in the Sigalovada Sutra.

[Martin68]

25. The qualities of real men, real women - and all real human beings of any gender.

[Evolve Dammit]

39. Yes indeed.

[Martin68]

24. "Conservative men are just babies." Exactly. Although I'd term them "crybabies."

[KS Toronado]

26. And FQX's solution to the "masculinity crisis"

ball tanning

[Missiris]

27. Back in the seventies

I remember in a management seminar, when equal pay was still being fought, an article I read proposed that "men need to be paid more than women, because it is more difficult for them to restrain their natural aggressive nature in an office environment." Seems like the snowflakes always have a half-as..d justification.

[momta]

28. Thanks for posting this, babylonsister.

This is one of the best essays I've ever read from Daily Kos.

[SledDriver]

29. Snowflakes

[keep_left]

30. I don't know about you, but the last person I think about when it comes to "upper-body strength"...

...is Ross Douthat. In fact, it reminds me of another advocate of toxic masculinity, the execrable Roosh V, around the time that his little online empire was crumbling because the gray was starting to show in the mirror and old Roosh was rapidly aging out of the MRA/PUA scene. Despite all his assertions to the contrary about his dedication to fitness and in particular to his weightlifting routine, old Roosh's lack of discipline in the gym was painfully visible. One of his disaffected fans posted a devastating rejoinder: "do you even lift, bro?"

My advice to Douthat would be: "don't lead with your weaknesses". Is the country in the grip of a crisis of traditional masculinity? Even if If it was, we're certainly not going to be convinced by Ross DoubtThat...er...Douthat.

[Faux pas]

31. Kickin'

in total agreement!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ProfessorGAC]

32. Good Read

Kick & rec.

[Mosby]

33. Check out this guy, real catch, lol.

His belly sticks out because of human growth hormone and insulin use. Who talks to people like that? Narcissists and sociopaths do. No one cares about your dick size, dude.

Link to tweet

[JanMichael]

35. It's generally pretty obvious when people are using HGH TRT

And deca and tren bologna sandwiches.

Protruded belly popping shoulders and traps paper thin skin veiny everywhere.

This guy obviously hasn't done his tren bologna sandwiches cutting yet.

Personally I can't stand all of the YouTube and other website influencers that say they're natural and it's obvious they aren't.

I'm especially pissed off at guys that are around my age in their 50s and '60s and '70s that are obviously juicing and think that that looks good or that they somehow have gained some youth. Their faces always show their age.

Also and where you can gain muscle after 50 it's harder to do and the overall body fat issues are more difficult to deal with. If I used HGH trt Deca and tren bologna sandwiches I'd probably be 20 lb heavier with 8% body fat. But I'd also be destroying my liver and my heart and the dreams and hopes of every person and everything about working out without taking drugs. Plus I'd be more of an a****** than I already am.

Terms

Deca-Durabolin - deca

Clenbuterol - clen bologna sandwiches

HGH - human growth hormone

TRT- testosterone replacement therapy

[Evolve Dammit]

40. Chasing the fountain of youth. We are what we are. Do your best and fuck the rest.

[ShazzieB]

46. Thanks for the glossary at the end of this post!

I didn't know what half that stuff meant, and I'm still not completely clear on all of it, lol.

I am a little confused about one thing, though. One of the things you list at the end of the post is "Clenbuterol - clen bologna sandwiches," but in the post you refer several times to "tren bologna sandwiches." I gather that this is a drug and doesn't involve actual bologna or sandwiches, but other than that, I'm lost.

[JanMichael]

48. Tren bologna sandwiches is just a sarcastic way of saying trenbuterol

Because most of the time the cheaters are like oh it's just brown rice and lots of chicken and broccoli.

Just a way of saying b*******

[BeerBarrelPolka]

59. Yep

Hollywood actors use those code words as well to discuss how they got buff for a movie role (brown rice and lots of chicken and broccoli).

[radius777]

61. There are women who like guys like that,

and consider them confident and outgoing - think Jersey Shore types.

Of course there are many others who don't - that's where the mismatch happens.

Neither side is accurate on 'what women (or men) want' because tastes and preferences differ greatly amongst people.

[Scrivener7]

34. SO true!!!

[Initech]

37. That whole "alpha male vs beta male" thing that guys like Nick Adams boast about...

Is really just a way of saying "I'm the biggest asshole on the planet.". And that's about it.

[senseandsensibility]

38. It needed to be said and I'm glad

that no one so far has attempted to defend these lunatic whiners.

[republianmushroom]

42. Nailed it.

[malthaussen]

43. And that's the crisis.

Yes, I really think those conservative men know of what they speak. Every man in their special little circle is probably having masculinity issues. Especially the ones who brag the most about what he-men they are.

-- Mal

[enigmania]

44. This is so accurate

I've been listening to these whining rednecks for 66 years, and this is such a great description of their infantile mentalities.

[Chi67]

45. Accurate indeed.

You are completely right. This is something I just can't understand. These guys need to grow up.

[Axelrods_Typewriter]

56. I've lived around them for most of my life. Their mental and emotional development

top out at about 15 or 16. They're eternal dumb teenagers and never grow up.

[mwb970]

58. Agreed, except that they "top out" at more like 6 or 7.

Look at trump, for example. I was much more mature than he is when I was 10.

[Trueblue Texan]

47. Hahahahahahha and Ohhhh HELL YESSSSS!!!! nt

[Iggo]

49. Certain men are definitely having a masculinity crisis.

And I think it’s adorable.

[EleanorR]

50. K & R

Superbly written and spot on.

[Quixote1818]

54. Seems like this should be worded differently. How about: There is a masculinity crisis and it's

conservative men. They are babies!"

[Blue Owl]

55. Tucker's junklight will save the big strong mens

[mwb970]

57. Conservatives behave like small children all the time.

I first noticed this many, many years ago and it has never changed.

[radius777]

60. I think there is a crisis amongst men not limited to conservative males.

The loss of manufacturing jobs hurts the type of guy (and gal) who works with his/her hands. Gen-X and Millennials were told to go to school and get training in the new economy - but even many of the tech jobs left. Ultimately this issue is about trade and globalism - we should never have allowed China to do this to us.

As far as a social issues go - neither the traditional model nor the modern one are accurate in how gender dynamics work in the real world. Humans are neither rigidly gendered nor gender neutral, but somewhere in-between.

[Xipe Totec]

63. It's Revenge of the Nerds and the Jocks hate it.

Brains beat brawn.

[The Jungle 1]

62. They don't understand how to lose. It is hopeless.

Everybody loses, at some point we all lose.
The radical right has not figured out how to lose with grace.
For my immature fellow Americans, how about some instructions. Say nothing, shake your head, scratch your ass and walk away.

The radical right should be entered into the Guinness World Records book for the largest group of sore losers ever assembled.

[JHB]

64. Conservatives make the most sterotypical liberal arts college "snowflake" portestors...

...look like veritable stoics.

It's like object impermanence in babies. If they don't see it right in front of them, it's gone only wails of despair (very loud and long wails) might bring it back.