Were The Documents Found At Mar-el-Loco Copies

[gab13by13]

I watched a bit of Lawrence O'Donnell last night. He had on former Trump lawyer Tim Parlatore. Lawrence asked Parlatore about what defense he would have used re: the stolen classified documents, targeting the ones found in Trump's office desk. Lawrence was making the argument it was a water tight case. Parlatore then made my ears perk up, he asked the question, were those documents copies?

It makes one wonder if the moving of the boxes of documents in and out of the storage area was done to make copies of them?

It would seem to me that if all of the documents were copies that would put Trump in more trouble, but I'm just an internet lawyer.

If they are copies, where are the originals? Saudi Arabia? Russia? UAE? Iran? Ivana's casket?

[underpants]

1. Not a lawyer but I don't think it matters

in fact it could make it worse for him.

[gab13by13]

6. That's what I think also,

but we don't think like Donald Trump.

[JohnSJ]

2. Does it make sense to anyone that making copies of classified documents for personal use would be

legal?

If you left a private company’s employment with proprietary information, you would get your ass sued.

What a crock this jackass was spewing.

I suspect he is still getting paid by trump

Hopefully Jack Smith will be putting this nonsense in the garbage where it belongs

[Ocelot II]

3. I heard that, and it struck me as pure bullshit.

What's supposed to be protected is the content of the documents. The law would have no teeth at all if you could make all the copies you wanted of a classified or other government document and just take them away and give them to whoever. One reason all these documents are so carefully supervised and accounted for is so they can't be copied. You can't take your phone into a SCIF. Why? So you can't record conversations or copy documents. And the copies are subject to the same restrictions and controls as the originals. For example:

Copying of documents containing classified information at any level shall be minimized. Specific reproduction equipment shall be designated for the reproduction of classified information and rules for reproduction of classified information shall be posted on or near the designated equipment. Notices prohibiting reproduction of classified information shall be posted on equipment used only for the reproduction of unclassified information. All copies of classified documents reproduced for any purpose including those incorporated in a working paper are subject to the same controls prescribed for the document from which the reproduction is made.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/32/2400.30

Either Parlatore didn't know this law or, more likely, he was just trying to gaslight O'Donnell.

[patphil]

8. You beat me to it!

I was just on that site, and was about to post exactly what you did above.

Essentially, Parlatore's argument that copies are not classified is disingenuous at best.
He would have us think that it's the original, paper document that is deemed sensitive, not the contents of the page.
Of course it's the content that gets the classification!
Using his logic, you could scan a top secret document into your computer, and then post it on the internet. That'll get you jail time for sure, just like physical copies showed to anyone not authorized to see them will.

The guy's a pretty slippery eel.

[Ocelot II]

9. And maybe Parlatore just confessed to another crime on TFG's behalf!

TFG or one of his minions may have illegally copied classified documents on a copier not designated for that purpose - like an ordinary photocopier somewhere in the West Wing. All copiers leave some kind of watermark, so they should be able to figure out whether the documents are copies and if so, which photocopier made them.

[yonder]

16. +1. Good one. Confession/prepping for a defense?

[Bayard]

4. If there were copies,

I'd be more inclined to think those were what he sold, and kept the originals for future use.

He has more than proved he's a pack rat.

[usedtobedemgurl]

5. The National Archives

Would not know any were missing, if they were just copies. They knew they were missing a lot of papers.

He could have made some copies at The White House.

He could have kept copies and given away the actual documents.

He could have made copies of everything, hoping the copies would not be taken.

With tfg, it could be anything, but it seems copies may be involved.

[Bev54]

7. Yes some were copies, you can tell by the white around the border

It will only show that way on a copy, the originals have no white. It is some trick done so they know immediately if the document is a copy.

[SomedayKindaLove]

11. Which helps explain why there was a ruler in the pic

Measuring a white border classified document.

[Bev54]

18. Yes, exactly.

[MiHale]

10. By making copies...

Couldn’t it be used to establish “intent to distribute”? Kinda like the drug law. You don’t make copies of a document just because, some plan was in place. Keep the original distribute the copies.

[Ocelot II]

12. You can't copy classified documents at all except on a copier designated for that purpose,

and the copies have to be controlled just like the originals. See post #3. So maybe just making the copies could be a crime itself (because you know he didn't do it the legal way).

[MiHale]

14. I know you can't make copies...

Not the question…intent is usually brought up in criminal cases, I was wondering if making copies could go to establish intent. Why make copies if you don’t intend to distribute them?

[Ocelot II]

15. I'm sure they'll ask the questions.

"Why did you make copies? How many did you make? Where did you copy them? What did you do with them? Where are the originals?"

[PortTack]

13. This from dailykos

Look at the Secret//SCI document bounded by the ruler. Why did they put a ruler there? That’s a good question. Everyone knows the size of a standard sheet of paper. You don’t need a ruler to measure it. If you look up towards the left, you will see there are at least two other cover sheets with a similar border. Notice anything different?

In case you missed it, look at the border around the document that is front and center. If that was an original document, there should be no white border. You see the cover sheets for these sort of documents are printed by the US government printing office. They are specifically designed to signal the status of the document they cover.

The point is, lots of folks who use the military.com website likely know what GSA Form SF703, the cover sheet on Top Secret documents, look like. The difference? The border on an official classified document cover sheet “bleeds to the edge” in printing parlance. Anyone who has ever used a copy machine knows the copy machine does not copy all the way to the border of the page. There is always that pesky white border.

More at the link

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2023/5/27/2171698/-I-have-been-waiting-for-someone-to-point-out-the-obvious-tell-in-this-photo

[Irish_Dem]

17. Trump could have made copies and sold them to more than one person.

Duh. That is how a conman thinks.

[Deep State Witch]

19. Even If They Are Copies

It doesn't matter. If it has classification markings without being marked Declassified, it's still classified.