My daughter has been wearing the same clothes for two years...

[cynatnite]

Some of them are falling apart. She also has used cookware from Salvation Army. It's the same for her furniture. My grandson is out of his jeans. He needs new ones. My other grandchild is out of his coat and his clothes are getting tight. My son needs new shoes.

Money is tight. We don't have a lot.

Black Friday we will have two paychecks and the sales on that day offer what my family needs.

So, yes...I am shopping on black Friday because we will have the money. This will be their Christmas.

There will be no high ticket items or electronics like iPads, computers or TV's. This will be a shopping day to fill my family's needs.

Look down on me still? Fine. I don't care, but keep in mind who you are condeming when you look down on the morons who venture out on black Friday to shop.

Oh, my grandchildren might get 1 toy a piece under the tree...just more crap they don't need...right?

[BelleCarolinaPeridot]

1. Honestly I needed to read this...

Your post made me see Black Friday sales from another perspective.

[CrispyQ]

55. Ditto. -nt

To the OP

[marmar]

97. But really, Black Friday to me is hocus-pocus, bait-and-switch.....

...... I've generally found it much cheaper to shop after Christmas.

[dlwickham]

138. you may have that option

but not everyone else does

sounds like the OP doesn't

[marmar]

145. The option to pay less money?

Je suis confus.

[HappyMe]

152. Um... she needs the

stuff to give as gifts for Christmas.

[MynameisBlarney]

2. What's the logic going shopping on the busiest day of the year?

And you might want to consider hitting the thrift shops.
I have gotten some really good clothes out of thrift shops.

It's your money and your time of course, but you might have a less stressful time of it if you wait until after Black Friday.

[Le Taz Hot]

14. I shop thrift stores all year long.

It IS nice to be able to buy new stuff at a bargain once a year. Besides, one doesn't have to spend the whole day there. I go to 1, maybe 2 stores, I already know what I want from the sales papers and I'm usually in and out in an hour.

[MynameisBlarney]

18. Ah gotcha.

A power shopper eh?
When I'm forced to do any type of shopping other than the usual grocery stuff. I am speedwalking in a beeline towards whatever crap it is I must buy. I can't stand shopping, and casual, slow-moving shoppers drive me up the wall.

But...that said, flea markets are different, and I can usually relax enough and slow down long enough to actually look at stuff.

[Le Taz Hot]

25. The thing about going to stores

with the new stuff is that I know I can't afford anything other than what's on my list so browsing would be a waste of time. I have a specific amount of money to spend and I have specific items I have to get. Besides, like you, I hate shopping.

Btw, on thrift stores? Lately I've been going to the church thrift stores instead of the big ones like Salvation Army or Goodwill and boy have I gotten some bargains.

[MynameisBlarney]

29. I hear ya.

We've got a few locally owned thrift shops here in town, and they have some awesome stuff.

[HappyMe]

21. Once a year,

it's nice to go buy clothes or whatever that aren't used. To me, it's part of the fun.

[Arkansas Granny]

59. I grew up wearing hand-me-downs and thrift shop clothes. For Christmas, we got a whole

new outfit of clothes. It was wonderful to wear something that no one had worn before.

[savebigbird]

103. Oh, not me!

I spend the entire time feeling guilty and horrible! I buy the vast majority of my shirts, pants, skirts, jackets, coats, sweaters, and dresses used. I always have. If I ever struck it rich, I'd probably keep on that way!

[Horse with no Name]

38. Me too

I love thrift shops. My latest thing I found was a brand new pair of Coldwater Creek jeans that retail for about $100 and are seriously the most comfortable pants I have ever owned. I got them for $3. I also got a brand new pair of Keds for $4.
I have found that nice kids clothes (especially jeans) are becoming harder and harder to find at Thrift Shops. I think because of the economy people are wearing the clothes a little longer and I have been seeing a lot of folks selling them online in local groups.
I have been fortunate with one child who has been able to wear their clothes this year and last year so I got away with only buying 2 pair of jeans to start school in (and they were buy 1 get 1 free).
When I do shop retail, it is only as a last resort and only if I get a really good bargain when I do it.

[AlbertCat]

62. I shop thrift stores all year long.

Lordy!

I read that at 1st glance:

I shop lift stores all year long

YIKES!

[Ikonoklast]

87. Really makes those bargains a real steal.

Really.

[WinkyDink]

30. Maybe because of both the bargains AND the excitement. People know their own stress levels.

[ileus]

35. Wouldn't the logic be the biggest discounts of the year?

I don't go anymore....I did for a few years when the kids were 1&2. My wife and her friends now make a party out to it now. I head to work.

If you manage to get the items you set out for there's big money to be saved.

[MynameisBlarney]

128. Good point.

I guess I've avoided shopping on that day since I can remember, I seem to have forgotten that some folks love that sort of thing.

[riderinthestorm]

45. I haven't bought new clothes in more than a decade. Only thrift stores for me and my husband

Of course I don't need dressy clothes for work (farmer).

My daughter gets a set amount of money to buy clothes at the beginning of the school year. She's learned that she can get a couple pairs of new jeans at the name brand stores, or she can buy several pairs of jeans PLUS a couple shirts and shoes at the thrift stores for the same amount of money. She's 16 and has learned fast that she can get the exact same name brand stuff at our local Goodwill or Plato's Closet for $3 instead of paying $50.

Honestly, I think its been at least 2 years since she's gone into a mall or name brand store to get her stuff.

[nadine_mn]

65. Some stuff you just can't get at thrift stores

Underwear, socks, and for me ... plus size clothes. I like thrift store shopping and we are on a budget since we only have income. Finding dress clothes for my husband to wear to work .. I usually wait for big sales or stores like Marshalls.

[mkultra321]

118. Consignment shopping in Twin Cities

If you're in MN. Consignment shops are booming. And, reflective of our populace, myself included, plenty of plus size clothes. I've made a little money taking my own unwanted stuff in, too. I see it almost as clothing rental.

[csziggy]

140. I've gotten great deals on plus size clothes

At OneStopPlus.com in their clearance section. The colors may be limited, but for the most part, the clothes are decently made with good prices. There is a wide selection of lingere. I haven't checked for socks. They also have jeans. You can read the reviews to see if the sizes run large or small, which helps a lot.

They have a Men's Big & Tall section with a clearance area.

Just a happy customer - not associated with the business.

[maddiemom]

69. I concur about the thrift shops. I get most of my stuff at Goodwill anymore.

I've gotten some great, even new, stuff at similar thrift shops. Ours is a university town and the kids shop our big, clean Goodwill in droves. At the start of semesters their parents are in looking for household items. I'll admit it wasn't this way in my college days, but times keep changing. No point in running around in tatters.

[CoffeeCat]

79. A local upscale department store here gives out $10 off any $10 purchase coupons...

...in the local paper on Black Friday. I pay $1.00 for each paper---and I usually get 40 of them.

I have done this for ten years, and I get so many things for free or nearly free.

I shop the clearance racks. I usually get all of my kids jeans, that are normally marked $50 or more--for under $3. I get cute, name-brand shirts and accessories for under $2. I always get cute jewelry for them--some sterling silver earrings and necklaces--always for under $2.

I've also gotten free mittens, scarves, hats, purses, and kitchen items. I got many Kitchen Aid small appliances for under $5

I buy 50 percent of my 2 girl's clothing during this Black Friday sale.

I kept my receipts from last year. Including the $40 for the papers, I spent a total of $102.00. I purchased:

--Ten pairs of name-brand jeans
--10 long-sleeved shirts
--4 sweaters
--several earnings, necklaces and bracelets
--a Liz Claiborne leather purse
--2 matching knit scarf/hat/mitten sets
--a bamboo cutting board (FREE!)
--2 bath size Tommy Hillfiger bath towels (FREE!) Retail for $50 each.
--Kitchen aid kitchen scissors (FREE!)

The full retail value of these items was over $1,000 (before sale price, clearance discounts and the $10 off coupon).

I am a smart shopper and no way in hell do I miss this! I could NEVER get quality, name-brand items like this for so cheap. Don't knock it until you've tried it, honey!

[GeorgeGist]

86. Some might say ...

mooch.

[CoffeeCat]

90. Thank you for sharing your negativity...

I just like to save money, and this is a great way to do it.

[dionysus]

102. let us not be a douche to that poster... mmmkay?

[Cal Carpenter]

123. Some might say...

classist judgmental flamebait.

[LanternWaste]

147. And in saying so, advertise their fundamental lack of character.

"Some might say ...mooch. "

And in saying so, advertise their fundamental lack of character.

[renate]

101. wow! color me impressed!

I love a bargain!

[dsc]

109. Now that is squeezing a nickel until the buffalo poops

but I mean that in the nicest possible way, I am truly impressed. I may well do that myself if a local store decides to do this.

[barbiegeek]

94. Maybe they would like to wear *Brand New* clothes for a change.

I'm just saying. Nothing is better than new socks and underwear.

[Mass]

3. I dont have a problem with Friday. I have, however, a problem with those stores who will open on

Thursday and force their employees to be there.

[BlueMan Votes]

13. They won't have to "force" their employees to work.

there are generally plenty of people who WANT to get the hours on their paycheck.

[kestrel91316]

28. Being so poorly paid that you can't afford to take a holiday off is pretty sad.

SHAME on the corporations who get rich by underpaying their help.

[CrispyQ]

53. Back in the days of strong unions,

grocery workers got paid triple time on holidays if they worked. It worked out to triple time only if you were a full time employee. You'd get holiday pay at your regular rate whether you worked or not, & then if you worked, you got double time for the hours you worked. Triple time! We also got time & a half on Sundays. Work for 8 get paid for 12! And shift differentials, too. Sweet!

Most of those perks have gone by the wayside thanks to Reagan & the repubs.

One more thing. In his book, "Take This Job & Ship It" former Senator Byron Dorgan (ND-D) wrote that if minimum wage had kept up with CEO pay during the 90s it would be over $23 an hour. That book was written a few years ago.

[BlueMan Votes]

81. I've known people with high hourly wages that LOVE to work Holidays...

double-time and all.

[LanternWaste]

148. Whilst still others love their families more than working,

Whilst still others love their families more than working, yet feel coerced into working those days to feed the families they love.

[BlueMan Votes]

150. that's life.

they can love their families just as much on their days off.
like everyone else does.

[Hermit Extrovert]

64. Yep

I loathe the "holidays", and when I had a job, I welcomed the opportunity to work them, not just for the money.

[mrs_p]

107. that's what I thought too

except this year, my hubby took a job with the Macy's in town instead of working up in Alaska where he earns 3x the pay (we have a small child he wants to spend time with) and he has to start work at 11 pm. He honestly had no choice or they would fire him.

[BlueMan Votes]

110. if he starts at 11pm- at least he won't miss dinner with the family...

and he'll have time to spend with the child who he can also probably tuck into bed before he leaves for work.

so there's that.

[mrs_p]

124. true

He "gets" to go over to my sister's for dinner, then heads to work until 9am. He is so looking forward to it.

I'll be sure to have something (like a consolatory breakfast) made for him when he gets home.

[WinkyDink]

33. Yet people go to restaurants, emergency wards, churches, Do they think there are no employees there?

[moriah]

39. Well, I worked on an account supporting a retailer.

Yep, we worked Thursday and Black Friday, we had a roster set up. A person could vouch vacation way in advance, but we had a calendar, etc, to make sure we had a sufficient amount of staffing.

Since for five years of my time at that job my normal schedule was Thursday-Sunday, I worked every Thanksgiving and Black Friday. And got holiday pay plus 8 hours of time to take off at another time in the year for each day (since my company considered both Thursday and Friday company holidays).

[democrattotheend]

92. That I agree with.

I would not go shopping on Thanksgiving out of respect for the workers. But I don't see a problem with shopping on Black Friday if you are willing to put up with the crowds.

[RebelOne]

4. I never go shopping on black Friday.

I did just once at Toys R Us and almost got trampled in the mob at the store. Fortunately, I got what I had gone there for. But never again.

[Chunk]

5. Just a thought.

Have you tried goodwill their prices are about half and they don't push religion on you. Toys for tots is also very good for holiday toys.

[jollyreaper2112]

6. or even better...

Protip: the sales are even better after the holidays when they're trying to offload the shit. Buy then and pass the savings on to yourself.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

10. or even better...

...why don't we accept what the OP said about this being her best choice, and instead of second-guessing and pushing our ideas on her, support her in the choice that she's made?

[OkieGranny]

16. Amen!

She knows her situation best, and is best able to decide what she needs to do for her family. I hope she will find tons of great deals to stretch those paychecks and that she and her family have an even better Christmas than she expects.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

42. It would be good to practice supporting others' choices, while also being able to enjoy our own

Learning to DIALOGUE rather than compete...... hey it's not easy; I often have to monitor myself. which way am I going? sharing my opinion out of mutual enjoyment and discovery or am I feeling that internal pressure to convince someone that they should try my position?

I lost a r-ship with someone I love that way....pushing my blueprint on him. Certainly there were his issues too, (and they are big), but if I don't notice my own actions, I won't be able to wake up out of the automatic behavior.

[SemperEadem]

49. on a public message board

views from all points are going to come, whether they buttress what the OP saying or not.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

52. Understood

It's just that to me, it's obvious that the OP was feeling that she was being criticized on another thread for her choice, and that feeling was strong enough that she felt she needed to post a thread to justify her decision.

In that situation, it comes off to me as "piling on" for people to then start giving her more alternatives when she has already made it clear that this is what's best for her and her family.

[LanternWaste]

149. Which seems to be a very attractively packaged way of rationalizing

Which seems to be a very attractively packaged way of rationalizing that some poeople are merely going to act in a vulgar manner for its own sake.

[eridani]

108. It's true that after Christmas is even cheaper, but when you have kids--

--they don't want to wait until the 26th to have their holiday.

[renate]

74. I've definitely had better luck that way, and there aren't the crowds

The only downside in terms of clothing is that you have about six or eight fewer weeks of getting to wear the winter clothes that season. But that makes them nearly new the next winter.

I was talking to a sales associate in an electronics store yesterday and he said that except for a few door busters (which are limited in stock) you don't necessarily get the best deals on Black Friday. Parking was bad enough at that store on a regular weekend that I would hate to go during the holidays, so that was useful information.

[JI7]

93. Depending on what Size her kids and grandkids need, you can't always find all available

there are great sales throughout the year in many stores but sizes are limited.

and it's preferable to have some gifts in time for christmas.

[Angry Dragon]

7. I have found many better deals after black Friday

Usually black Friday is for stuff that is just extra stuff
Clothes will get cheaper closer to Christmas

[BlueToTheBone]

8. May you find plenty and have plenty left!

[flygal]

68. That was nicely said

[Raster]

9. You have NOTHING to apology for. Nothing. Here's to you and your family the best.

[HappyMe]

11. Thank you.

It ticks me off no end when people criticize about shopping or working on a holiday or Black Friday. Not everyone rushes off to buy the late$t electronic geegaw.
I have always bought useful Christmas presents for adults and kids. Usually with a nice toy for the kids.

[Le Taz Hot]

12. My family is exactly the same way.

I live behind a major shopping mall so I'm able to walk to Black Friday specials. Being able to buy things like winter clothing, undies & socks at a 70%+ off is just too good to pass up. I may have to dip into the food budget a little but the few things I buy on Black Fridays usually last me years and sometimes decades.

[murielm99]

15. You go ahead and do whatever you need to do.

You are not accountable to anyone here who might judge you.

I have shopped on Thanksgiving eve and black Friday when I ran out of critical items. It was nobody else's business.

And I have lived the way you describe your daughter's life. I hope not to again, but who knows?

I hope you can help make a nice holiday season for everyone. God bless.

[WinkyDink]

34. "nobody else's business" = Pretty much my life's mantra. :-)

[progressivebydesign]

17. I wore my 20 year old boots yesterday. Most of my clothes are 9 years old..

when I want something New-ish, I go to the thrift shops. I raised my stepdaughters to appreciate what we have, but shopping with them at thrift shops, and making our own stuff, even in times we didn't need to. Hard to find any other teen girls in America who are just as thrilled to get a goodwill gift certificate, than a trip to Nordstroms. It's all in perspective.

As far as Black Friday goes... who cares when someone shops? I wouldn't endanger my life or get up at 2am to get toys... but some people enjoy the spectacle and competitive nature of it. There will be plenty of great sales throughout the season.

Just stay away from the DVDs and electronics, and you should be fine.

[NMDemDist2]

24. my fairly well off step mother wanted a 'wish list' from me for Xmas

so i put a bunch of stuff i wanted from eBay on the list. she called and said 'wouldn't you rather have something nice from Dillards or Macys?" "Heck no" says I, "for what you'd spend on one item from the retail store, you could get 6 of a comparable quality used on eBay"

i haven't bought anything new (except shoes) in years and don't seem to be hurting as my closet is jammed. when i do a closet purge it all goes to the battered women's shelter and i've heard back from the director that my donations are the nicest things they get. all used. all from thrift stores or eBay.

buy classic, buy quality then pass them on

[hollysmom]

19. Who has a right to criticize how others live their lives if they don't hurt anyone.

I have a friend in financial problems who shops at Walmart. Not my job to tell her not to, although... I have said what ever they give you on the shelf price they make up at the register and to check her purchase carefully, because they tend to over charge at the register here very very often.
Personally, I don't shop in big stores much, but in small outlets, I get anxiety attacks in malls and places like Kohls. Someone told me they thought it had to do with the amount of formaldehyde in clothes now. The outlets stores are small separate buildings and I can see everything and get in and out in minutes and there are no perfume sprayers!

[HopeHoops]

20. I'm still trying to get that train set put together.

[Horse with no Name]

22. There is no need to apologize

I have spent the last year decluttering (sounds better than dejunking) my house and have become quite selective about how much more junk comes in.

There is nothing that I NEED or WANT that I would be willing to fight the Black Friday crowds for. I hate them.

But I don't look down on anyone for doing what they want-or have- to do. Free will and all.

Have a good and safe shopping experience. You don't owe anyone apologies or explanations on what or why you do things.

[badhair77]

23. When I was in HS my mom and I went shopping on T-giving.

It was the late 60s and just 1 or 2 stores were open till 5 pm and we'd be gone about 2 hours in the afternoon. Because it was such a novelty at the time I remember it well. Two years later, I was in college and I worked at one of those stores. I was glad for the hours and the family ate Thanksgiving dinner instead of at noon time, just to work around my schedule. Now I'm happy to stay home and let the craziness of the late night shopping crowds to others. I'm hoping there are workers out there who feel the same way and want a paycheck, who can still celebrate with family another time. My son worked at Blockbuster while in college, every holiday, and we just dealt with it. It was a nuisance, however.

I would never look down on anyone wanting to find a bargain and make their dollars stretch. I hope you find many that day and that you can fulfill your family's needs.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

26. When I as young, my mom shopped for years at the Salvation Army

She somehow found terrific clothes, lamps, furniture, and a lot of other things in great condition. Almost every shirt I wore was used. My dad was a career officer in the Air Force and didn't make much money at all and my mom just couldn't justify spending $30 on a new shirt when she could get one at the Salvation Army in nearly new condition for two bucks. If you can find cheap clothes on sale on black Friday I see nothing wrong with that, either.

[blueamy66]

27. I'm sure that this post is in response to mine in another thread...

Please go back and read what I posted.

You misconstrued everything that I wrote.

I am sorry if you were offended.

[malaise]

31. I shop every black Friday when I'm i the US

I pick up great work clothes for the year.

[Auntie Bush]

32. Try some second hand stores...they can have some really nice inexpensive things.

Go frequently as their things change weekly.

You can also find a lot of great things at yard sales. It isn't necessary to have the kids go without nice fitting clothes. Good luck with your shopping and have a great Thanksgiving and Christmas no matter what decisions you make or where you shop.

[ceile]

36. You do what you need to do.

It doesn't matter what a couple of pricks on an internet message board think.
If I could stand crowds, I'd be right there w/ ya.

[Baitball Blogger]

37. Black Friday is traditional for us.

If it helps, we shop in one factory outlets with all the foreign tourists.

We have a limit and what we buy is 80% clothes, shoes etc. That is our X-mas gift to each other.

[femrap]

40. Wow....

I grew up on a farm with my grandparents who raised 5 kids during the Depression. Their kids wore the same outfit to school 5 days in a row.

If your grandchildren are still growing, why aren't you shopping at Goodwill or garage sales or consignment stores or Thrift stores? Kids grow out of clothes/shoes so fast. There are tons of consignment stores for kids clothes.

Get on the mailing lists for these stores so you know when there is an additional 'take 50% off day.'

The sales on Black Friday are really not that great. I know. If there is something I know, it's buying on sale. Most of the sale items will be big ticket items....the electronics you don't want.

I just can't believe you don't know about all the great 'pre-owned' clothing and toy stores.

Seriously. I've gotten great buys there. Or is it YOU that looks down on people who shop at Second Hand Stores?

You have issues with money. Get over it. Get over materialism and consumerism. Make some damn gifts...have fun with your family by baking cookies, or making crafts for gifts.

Give a toddler a pot and a spoon...it's a drum and they are just as happy with that as a drum toy you go out and buy.

Use your imagination and have FUN with their family. Xmas is NOT about gifts...it's about love and spending good times together. Dance, Sing, Eat, Play Games, Party! Do NOT teach your grandkids that 'things' are important because they're not.

I grew up with pulling someone's name out of a hat....we didn't buy gifts for everyone.

edit for clarity.

[HappyMe]

43. Wow...

Preachy much.

Plenty of us here buy used items at thrift store all year long. Once a year, it's nice to have a sweater or something that doesn't smell funny and need washing before you wear it. People wanting to buy new things once in awhile doesn't hurt you in any way.

I think YOU need to get over yourself.

[femrap]

51. Nope...

Sorry to tell you but you need to wash new clothes as well....unless you want bedbugs or rashes, etc. Who wears new clothes without washing them? Sheets? They even tell you to wash them...formaldehyde is on them. These clothes come from some dirty factory in Vietnam or Indonesia...I wash them before I wear them. Even stuff made in the USA, I wash.

I think I'm POOR and I'm trying to help this family stretch their money as far as possible. If I want a new sweater, I wait until the winter sales and buy it at 75% off. That is my rule. It must be 75% PLUS it is NOT MADE IN CHINA. The 'new' stuff from China has an odor as well.

How about that for getting over myself???

And toys? Do they smell funny as well?

And if the clothing item smells funny, I don't buy it.

Money is an extremely emotional issue...and people need to face that. Or stick their head up their ass, I really don't care. I provided what I thought was useful information so these grandkids didn't have to suffer like the OP said they were.

You? Not happy. buh bye.

[Skittles]

104. eh, deleting

not worth it (hey was that a pun?)

[femrap]

111. No

guts, no glory.

Did you grow up poor? Have you watched you immediate family go bankrupt? Have you dealt with advising families on how to get out of debt?

Come on....speak up. I want to know what your advice is to the OP.

[Skittles]

112. see your DU mail

[ceile]

58. You didn't read the OP carefully.

She said her daughter's cookware and furniture was used- from the Salvation Army. So your condescending tone "I just can't believe you don't know about all the great 'pre-owned' clothing and toy stores." is down right gross.
I wish there was an alert for being a judgmental prick.

[femrap]

73. Go ahead

and alert. I won't be seeing you in the future.

When you're poor, why do you buy new clothes/shoes for kids who are still growing? What's wrong with having a sofa (minimum retail $300) and some cookware from Salvation Army? Those items are very expensive if bought retail.

And I presume the rest of my words about the Holidays make no sense? Go ahead and waste your money on 'stuff.' Forget about love, family, and that 'stuff' is really pretty much nothing w/o a loving family. Stuff does not equal happiness.

It's a frigging sweater. Why don't you go through having your house burn down and then discover WTF is important in life?

That's what I went through. Sure, all you have are the clothes on your back. But you still have a family.

So you go ahead and just jabber away at me. I won't be listening. I have enough judgmental pricks IRL.

And go buy yourself a lot of STUFF!

[ceile]

95. Again you didn't read what was written.

I was talking about the OP, not myself. Where did I say I was going shopping? I made no mention holidays.

[nini]

88. I thought the OP was a bit over the top..

until I read your response. Who the fuck are you to tell anyone what to do? God forbid grandma buy the kids something new. My grandparents tried to do the same when I was growing up poor and believe me I remember the thrill of having something like that just once or twice is something I still remember.

You lecture about the meaning of the holidays yet contradict that by demeaning the OP in such a condescending manner.

Oh and don't worry about telling me you don't care what I'll say, block me whatever because believe me I will not give you another moment of my time.

[femrap]

100. I know...

let me advise the OP to get a credit card and go out and use that puppy until it's up and over the cash limit allowed cuz those kiddies deserve new clothes, new shoes, new toys, and a meal at Applebee's. And stop at a furniture store on the way home and get some credit there. Buy a new sofa...hell, buy a whole living room set. Top off that credit card as well!!! After all it's Christmas. Those kids need to have things and you're gonna go out and buy them...all on a little plastic card!

This is the USA and if you want to buy something for your loved ones, you do it. Who cares if you have to go into debt? And why do you have to sacrifice and save up some money for those purchases? You want your stuff and you want it NOW! And so what if the interest rate is 14%? Now if you miss a payment or you're late on one, you could be looking at 29%, but who cares about COMPOUNDING INTEREST. This is America and money grows on trees. It's damn unpatriotic NOT to be in debt!

The Banksters are here to HELP you get whatever you want for your loved ones. Now get out there and SHOP! SHOP UNTIL YOU F*CKING DROP AND DO IT ALL ON CREDIT!!!

No, nini, I really, really, really care what you think. A whole bunch! Let me ask you, nini, do you realize how many families go into debt at Xmas for some stuff that the kids don't use come March? You are so smart. You tell me.

What I remember from Xmas as a kid is the great food and all of us enjoying ourselves at the kitchen table. I enjoyed decorating a tree that my uncle cut for us. Maybe I just don't like stuff that much. Memories are more important....to me. And I really liked it when it snowed and we could all go out and build a snowman.

BTW, most of my clothes were hand-made. And they were much prettier than the store-bought stuff.

But I must be some kind of unpatriotic person from France.

But we're all different.

[Ineeda]

139. Yikes. What the F is wrong with you?

You're spouting psycho talk that has absolutely nothing to do with the Op and the point of his/her thread. AND jumping to erroneous conclusions, to boot.

[femrap]

141. Do I really need the

sarcasm sign??? If you hadn't noticed, many posters thought my 'advice' up thread was condescending and I was a prick. I wanted the OP to not feel so deprived so I wrote about what I do since I, too, am financially-challenged.

One dude told me to EVOLVE...and isn't this how so many Americans lived until the 2008 Collapse...living on credit...it was the American way, after all. Remember?

It was sarcasm. You watch Colbert?

[Ineeda]

142. Yeah, you do need the sarcasm smilie.

Everything you've posted has been mean-spirited, condescending, and judgmental, if relevant at all to the OP. If you meant it sarcastically, it was not evident to anyone responding to you. And you exhibited not one iota of compassion, instead turning it around to a 'poor, poor, pitiful me. I've had it worse than anybody else in the whole wide world' meme. A truly (R) mindset, and revolting. You're calling it sarcasm now because so many here have called you on it. Again, an (R) tactic.

[femrap]

143. Are you sitting at the Heritage

Foundation being paid $12/hour?

Obviously you have a literacy problem so I'll just buh-bye.

[Le Taz Hot]

126. That's some pretty nasty condescending

shit right there. Since you're real big on telling others what they NEED to do here's one for you: You need to re-read your own post, then find a nice, quiet spot for several hours and do some serious self reflection. Evolve. Now.

[1gobluedem]

131. +1000

I was going to reply the the writer of the post we're responding to didn't mean to come across as condescending and self righteous.

Then I realized he/she did. I hope you don't get a stiff neck from looking down on everyone else from your perch of superiority.

[femrap]

133. No, I'm

pretty much looked down upon by those with the fancy designer clothes....you know, the rich people who throw their money around and everyone seems to envy....and don't pay taxes.

I'm surviving The Greater Depression by stretching every penny. I wear clothes from the 1980's. I take very good care of what I have so I don't have to buy anything newly 'used.'

I don't put much importance on stuff. I was brought up to think that what is important is on the inside, not the outside.

I was really trying to give the OP tips on saving money and not feeling deprived....but YOU seem to know ME so much better than I do.

Another intention of mine is to give the f*cking Corporations who sell this retail crap as little of my money as possible. By purchasing stuff used or at local mom and pop outfits, I do NOT support their Greed and High Profit Margins. You have no idea how much I despise giving money to Corporations.

I don't shop at Walmart and I don't buy anything made in China unless that's the only country where the product is made...such as fans and lighters. I put my money where my heart is. So give your crap to some rich f*ck who deserves it.

Where the f*ck is the OWS people???? They might understand.

And let me add that I just returned from Faith Mission's Nancy Place (for homeless women) and Choices (for women survivors of domestic violence) after taking bags of socks, underwear, hats, gloves, journals, hair clips, and candy for over 100 women and children. As I shop throughout the year, I find great bargains (after Xmas sales) on winter clothing. Socks and gloves for 50 cents each. I buy Halloween candy when it goes on sale. I give each women a card with candy in it, sent with love from Santa. I really enjoy doing this. That's pretty much my Holiday fun.

But you're right, I saw the ever bright and true American light: read #100. Stick that.

[femrap]

132. I grew

up with little money and am now experiencing The Greater Depression. I have learned to stretch every penny and really don't feel that deprived. I have clothes from the 1980's that I still wear. I was simply passing on some ideas that might help the OP deal with what she/he sees as 'deprivation.'

But you may be right, after all. I evolved.

PLEASE GO READ POST #100.

[Le Taz Hot]

134. You know what?

I was desperately poor growing up including being homeless and hungry MANY TIMES. Hell, I'm poor now (again). That doesn't give you license to be a judgmental condescending ass. And with that, I'm done.

[femrap]

136. And I can understand

why you are. If you can't see the difference from condescension and advice, you're right....you're done.

buh-bye.

[Live and Learn]

41. Why would anyone look down on you?

Many enjoy the Black Friday experience as well. I don't, but don't look down on those that do.

There are some good deals although there are some pretty good deals throughout the season and afterwards as well. I think the backlash is more against the commercialization of the season and the feeling that one must spend a fortune to enjoy it.

Hope you find some good deals!

[SemperEadem]

44. I'm spending my money on small business Saturday

buying locally to help keep the owners of smaller mom-and-pop stores open and employed and keep the tax revenue local. I'd rather do that than help wal-mart meet their quarterly earnings projections and higher stock values while paying chinese laborers slave wages and keep them living in slave conditions while making cheap toys out of lead-based plastics that will be recalled within 3 months.

[madamesilverspurs]

46. Personally, my choice to avoid Black Friday

is a matter of mobility as much as anything else. On a normal day, the wait for one of the motorized carts can be lengthy; on a big shopping day, I'd have to camp for hours to get access to one. So.

As it is, I get snarked at for where I buy groceries. Snark away. I know what my resources are, and make my choices accordingly. Some of those choices are distasteful enough without others (who have NO information about my circumstances) adding their bitter and unsolicited two cents.

The only clothing I buy new is underwear and shoes. One for the obvious reason, the other predicated by special need; one pair of shoes per year, and where I buy them is no one's business but mine.

I get where you are. Totally.


-

[BanTheGOP]

47. The Legacy of Reaganomics and the George W. Bush Tax Cuts

There is no question that the republican Party is 100% responsible for your problem. We MUST institute progressive economic policies so we all can afford the basics and some of the small luxuries. Wealth Tax Reform is our next main focus of legislation and judicial reform to concentrate on.

[riderinthestorm]

48. Good luck! May the shopping gods smile on you nt

[adigal]

50. I am middle class, and get most of my clothes from local thrift shops

When I donate clothes, they beg me to take clothes, as they throw out thousands of items each year. Where do you live? We have more clothes than we can give away up in NY, no reason to buy clothes for anyone in the family.

Now a toy or two, I can see shopping for that, but Made in China crap will just break. We need to all start thinking locally and buying made in USA. I have a shop that sells toys made in the USA, and they are no more expensive than Chinese crap.

[hlthe2b]

54. I'd never look down on you. I only hope you find the bargains that you seek (and deserve)...

I'm feeling pretty emotional with the hurt of so many friends, family, acquaintances that your post just hit pretty close to home. Please don't feel condemned for looking after the needs of those for whom you care so deeply.

[SheilaT]

56. Personally, I prefer to stay home that day, but that's just me.

While my money is not as tight as yours seems to be, I do have a decidedly smaller income post divorce than I did a few years ago. These days I almost never purchase a book. I have re-discovered the joys of my local library, and there's always plenty to read. I try to be sensible about my clothing purchases, and try to get stuff on sale. I admire those who shop at the second-hand places, because I choose not to. My younger son, with absolutely no assist from me, now buys clothes at the second hand stores. Good for him!

What helps me the most is that I don't own a TV, so while I watch all of the shows I want on the internet, I see very few commercials. It's astonishing how TV constantly bombards you with messages to buy, buy buy.

It's my opinion that kids -- not sure just what word to use here -- need or deserve or appreciate toys. Especially some of the old-fashioned ones like the board games, and then the family gathers around and plays them. But I don't even have grandkids, so I'm just thinking back to when my two children were little. Even though we could afford a reasonable amount, I'm pretty sure they always got less than most of their friends. I just never understood Christmas as this huge commercial blow-out. Perhaps that came from growing up relatively poor in a family of six kids.

It's not fun to be so poor you go hungry or don't have adequate clothes, but living frugally can have its benefits.

You have a great time on Black Friday!

[Initech]

57. The problem I have with Black Friday is not people like you.

I have a problem with the huge mobs of people who fight each other to get the latest toy or save $50 on a brand X flat screen abd beat the crap out of each other or trample over people to buy shit they don't need. That's what gives the day a bad name.

[Harriety]

60. I have shopped at thrift stores for years. My favorite one has clothes for a buck on Sundays.

[SidDithers]

61. DU rec...

many of the "Boycott Black Friday!!" posters have the privilege of being able to afford to shop for necessities anytime.

If families in need can make their few shopping dollars go farther on Black Friday, more power to them.

Hope you get what you need.

Sid

[protect our future]

63. My Christmas wish:

That somehow a DU Christmas project could be organized so that members who are in need could be gifted by members who want to help.

[DirkGently]

80. +++ YES. Just had this thought too. An Exchange Forum?

Don't know if DU would sign off, but people could list sizes / age / type of clothing or household goods needed? I know a lot of us try to contribute to local orgs helping with food, clothes, even toys. DUers are "local" too, in my mind.

We should do this.

[protect our future]

83. There would probably need to be

a central location or clearing house for gathering goods, plus the cost of shipping...maybe people who are interested in participating would help with suggestions on how we could do something like this.

[DirkGently]

98. Or DU could just be the information clearinghouse.

I'd be interested in DUers just directly connecting with each other. Clothes, toys, and light housewares are light & ship inexpensively. Organize by state, kids' ages, clothing size.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

117. Go to Wishadoo!!

Run by a DUer, One Grass Root.

www.wishadoo.org

[protect our future]

121. Dirk and Manifestor, good ideas.

I know little about Wishadoo but sounds like this may be the way to go. I thought of something else, too: gift cards and gift certificates. Gas cards, grocery store cards, clothing stores, etc. Inexpensive to mail and many are even available in $5 amounts on up to however much someone would want to spend.

[Chorophyll]

66. K&R. I'm very guilty of the rush to judgment about Black Friday

and a bunch of other things. No more.

But I promise to stay home that day so people who really need the discounts can partake.

[beam me up scottie]

67. How DARE you

spend your own hard earned money on your family just because they NEED stuff...


Good hunting!

[Liberal_in_LA]

144. +100

[beam me up scottie]

146. !

[Debau2005]

70. Black Friday bargains

I work in retail....the bargains are not always as they seem. Right before a major sale, such as Black Friday, you'll see prices creeping up, in some cases jumping! So that on Black Friday, the store can do DEEP DISCOUNTS, and the American consumer thinks they got a bargain.

Check the prices weeks before Black Friday, to make sure you aren't standing in the lines, and crowds of people, to either spend the same as last month or save a penny, or in some cases, spend a penny more.

Good luck on Black Friday. I'll do my shopping closer to the Holiday when the stores are trying to unload the stuff, so we don't have to carry that inventory over into the new year.

[KurtNYC]

120. I agree. I think Black Friday is hype to get people to spend the maximum

during the holiday season. It works two ways -- 1) you get the store full of shoppers and a herd mentality takes over. Critical decision making is affected. People grab what they see others going for and just assume it is a great deal. 2) the same shoppers have another 25 to 30 days to shop before Christmas so it lengthens the window of peak shopping.

From about Dec 23 to January 6th or so is when the prices really go down.

[Iggo]

71. Somebody givin' you shit?

[liberal_at_heart]

72. You have nothing to be ashamed of

You are taking care of your family. It is not boycotting Walmart that will make things better. What will make things better is improving our economy so that people don't have to shop at Walmart. My daughter ordered her senior ring from Walmart this year. The school sends home a packet for rings, and picture frames, announcement papers, key rings, pillows and blankets and bags with their senior year imprinted on it. And almost every single one of her friends just orders whatever they want from the company that the school has chosen. Well my daughter doesn't get that luxury. We are on disability. So, we said to hell with the announcements, the picture frames and all the rest of the crap. Out of the dozens and dozens of items for sale from the catalog the only thing my daughter ordered from the company the school picked was her cap and gown. Then we shopped around and found a class ring at Walmart.

[MissMarple]

75. Good for you guys. Most of that stuff is just hype.

You'd wonder why you ought it a year later. Her yearbook and a graduation photo are all you need. They still have yearbooks don't they?

[liberal_at_heart]

77. yes my daughter has ordered her year book

yeah, the cap, gown, ring, senior portraits(which we also did a good amount of shopping around for) and yearbook are really the only things we are concerned about. There is one more thing my daughter is hoping we can splurge on. They have a school sponsered, chapperoned graduation all night party. All of her frineds are going, and of course she wants to go party with her friends on graduation night. I am still trying to save up for that one.

[snort]

76. Goodwill

I can afford new but buy all my clothing at the Goodwill store. Its just so damn cheap and it helps out the less fortunate. And its fun.

[DirkGently]

78. No one should look down on a shopper in need. The sales, though ...

The carnival, feeding-frenzy atmosphere some of these stores deliberately conjure is irresponsible and grotesque. I'm looking at you, Walmart. Target. Sears. And it's not driven by sales on necessities.

They waft visions of the flat-screen tvs many Americans cannot afford, brought down within reach for a brief time. A computer, a cell phone, a trendy toy. Things that symbolize a lifestyle norm not open to everyone.

It's not the desire for these things that is disturbing. It's the fact that retailers manipulate cash-strapped families and their completely rational desire to have a celebratory moment, or to feel like their family can have some of what other families have, into a high-pressure, potentially violent situation, just to drum up holiday-season enthusiasm.

They're chumming the waters with people's hopes and dreams. With parents' desire to do something special for their children. With the screwed up division between what America pretends its standard of living is, and what it is rapidly becoming for so many.

It's not the people that want something that deserve contempt. It's the people playing with their needs to jack up a quarterly profit figure; patting themselves on the back for a bone-crushing stampede driven by pent-up want, then marveling at how ugly it becomes.

Good luck to you, and to all of us, Black Friday "door busters" be damned.

[riderinthestorm]

82. How old are your grandkids cynatnite? Inexpensive toys can be the most fun. A deck of cards

a baggie of popsicle sticks and glue to make houses, pick up sticks, coloring books and a new package of markers or paint, sidewalk chalk, bubbles, even a gift of bubble bath soap is fun.

One of my kids' favorite "toys" was a set of finger paints from the dollar store. What made it different was that I told her they were BATHTUB paints! She spent at least 2 hours, stark naked, in the tub. Painting herself, the walls, the fixtures - she had so much fun (and she didn't even use up all the paint - there was enough left over for another session another day). When she was done we simply turned on the water and soaped up. Cleaning up the mess in the tub was a snap.

Good luck and don't let anyone make you feel bad.

[Whisp]

84. I'm sorry people are thoughtless idiots, cynatnite.

there is no party affiliation for that, sorry to say.

[SleeplessinSoCal]

85. I have never looked down on anyone shopping the day after Thanksgiving

The Macy's Parade is all about going out and shopping. I never thought about it, but "Black Friday" is a horrible term. So much of our consumer culture is hideous. It's not healthy. But taking advantage of a sale is smart. No two ways about it.

[Warren DeMontague]

89. Has Finger Wagging Season started ALREADY?

Oh, I forgot, for some folks it's ALWAYS finger wagging season!

[democrattotheend]

91. I think we should all shop to the extent we can

Because it will help the economy, and give people who work in retail more hours, and in turn put more money in their pockets to spend and boost the economy or pay off debt. The better companies do during the holidays the more new employees they will be able to hire, or at least avoid laying off. The economy is starting to recover and strong holiday sales, especially on Black Friday, will help.

The better the economy does, the stronger tax revenues will be, and the less will have to be cut to balance the budget. The better the economy does, the more political capital President Obama will have to pursue his policies. Most importantly, the better the economy does, the less people suffer.

Obviously, those who can afford to should try to patronize socially responsible companies and companies that make their products in the United States and/or sell union-made or environmentally friendly products. But I understand that not everyone can always afford to do that.

But I don't see why some people here think it is shameful to shop on Black Friday. As long as you don't participate in trampling workers to death, I see no ethical problem with it.

[JI7]

96. i think boycotts can be stupid as are the idiots lining up for the latest Iphone and other

such things because they want to be the FIRST ones to have it.

but i can understand many reasons for shopping on black friday. there are discounts offered for various things that people regularly buy and they know this is when they can get a great deal . for those who don't have a lot of money these things make a big difference to them.

[REP]

99. Most of the clothes I'm wearing right now are 5+ years old ...

I wear pretty basic stuff and have no sense of fashion, so that works for me. I don't really care if my shirts are now too big; whatever.

As to why and when other people shop and for what: none of my business

[femrap]

113. You know, REP...

that is good advice. Why should I care and/or advise the OP? Why care? I wish I didn't. Because my caring is like: the road to hell is paved w/ good intentions.

Hell, I wear clothes from the '80's. I wear San Fran 49ers t-shirts: Champs of '82, 84, 88, 89, etc. And since I take care of my clothes (don't dry too long and wash in cold water, they still look bright red), I can probably wear for another 20 years....hopefully I am dead before that.

The worst thing for clothes is to dry them bone dry. I always take out damp and stretch and then hang on hanger....see, here I am caring about having others clothes last longer. Why should I????? Let them fry their damn clothes. Waste everything. Doesn't anyone care about the environment on this board?

I'm going to sleep.

[MadrasT]

105. I am sorry you are having a hard time.

:

I hope you find some great deals on Black Friday (and short lnes).

[likesmountains 52]

106. Just looking at the ads it seems like basic stuff like clothing

personal hygiene/grooming items, food, socks, winter jackets etc. are not the marked down items. It always looks like expensive electronics and housewares..maybe a few toys are the "big" savings. I believe that they get people to come in for those few items and make them believe that everything they look at is a big bargain.

[JI7]

114. the ads mostly show the big ticket items, but things like clothing and non electronic toys go

on sale also.

[cynatnite]

115. Also what happens is that these stores will have other stock that they have marked down...

Last year we made a killing on a variety of clothing for everyone in the family by using the clearance racks that were marked down even more than usual.

It's their biggest shopping day of the year so they're looking to unload stock as well. We are very frugal shoppers.

Of course, you always have to be careful. With a smart phone we're able to check to see if we can get something cheaper elsewhere.

[DCKit]

116. YOU need to be one of the voices providing budgeting advice to the WH.

My ballcaps are older than your kids, so I get it.

[LynneSin]

119. If I knew how to reach you I'd give you a gift card to buy some things for your family

Not because I think you are looking for handouts, in fact you didn't even ask at all.

But because I've become cynical over christimas and to me your story gives me hope that there is good for Christmas and I think by helping another family enjoy the holiday spirit it helps me too.

[Helen Reddy]

122. Ohhh cynatnite

My wish for you and your family is good health, abundant quality times with the folks you care about, and having enough funds to get what you need.

[peacebird]

125. I don't shop then because I hate the crowds, but I wish you much luck & may your $ go far!

[budkin]

127. Black Friday is fine. Black Thanksgiving is not.

WTF is up with these retailers starting their sales on Thanksgiving day? Stores should be closed so employees can spend time with friends and family.

[JEB]

129. Socks & underwear new,

everything else second hand. We are awash in these cheap Chinese crap clothes. Why pay retail?

[Chan790]

130. I have no problem with people shopping Black Friday.

I mean I used to hate working Black Friday when I was in retail sales for Sears and Starbucks, but it's at-least legitimate...and the employees that have to take time out of their Thanksgiving to get ready for work for the midnight opens, at least it the last hours of the holiday that you lose.

Now the stores that are now starting one day earlier to beat the rush by having their big one-day sale on Thanksgiving...they're on notice, I'm taking down names and you've lost my business. I feel the same way about places that stay open later on Christmas Eve.

[LibertyLover]

135. May you find a parking spot close to where you'll be shopping,

wonderful sales on everything you need and even more wonderful sales on some things you want. Don't forget to take a few minutes to rest and re-hydrate. And may you and yours have a wonderful holiday this year!

[pansypoo53219]

137. consumerism is a sick game. new is overrated. tho i need new long underwear.

my 50's waffleweave finally died for good. but for stuff. if you have estate sales in town, that is the best place for good furniture. i've found great sweaters. good pots GOOD pots. quality stuff. + no fan is better than an old metal fan. no heater better. books sometimes. and if you ain't got heirlooms, buy them.

i am so over shopping. estate sales is treasure hunting.

and for NEW, lands end closeouts. end of season.

[Warpy]

151. You can try for bargains on Black Friday

but you're not going to find many for necessary items like clothing and cookware. Mostly the bargains are on electronic toys and there are only one or two in the store at the bargain price, meaning Black Friday is a huge bait & switch for 99.99% of people who shop then.

I'm lucky in my own town, there are good thrift shops here for adults and yard sales offer a huge range of kid clothing. Fugly thrift shop clothes + Rit dye can be quite presentable. My whole house is furnished with thrift shop furniture.

So good luck on landing any bargains. I'm told they're there. I just never saw any back in the bad old days before I decided to stay home and then shop later in the season.

[lonestarnot]

153. Black Friday aside, can we help out some way?

I have a bunch of boys clothes, like brand new. Can we send a box?