UK man arrested for posting burning poppy picture on Facebook

[sir pball]

A teenager arrested on Remembrance Sunday on suspicion of posting a picture of a burning poppy on Facebook is being questioned by police.

The 19-year-old was held after the image of a poppy being set ablaze by a lighter was reportedly posted online with the caption: "How about that you squadey cunts".
...
Jamie's Pants, under @thisisrjg, tweeted: "We do not have a right to not be offended. We certainly don't have a right to lock up someone for offending some people," while Thom Lumley, tweeting as @Hotstepperrr, wrote: "Dear idiots at Kent Police, burning a poppy may be obnoxious, but it is not a criminal offence."

David Allen Green, a journalist and lawyer for the New Statesman, tweeting as Jack of Kent, wrote: "What was the point of winning either World War if, in 2012, someone can be casually arrested by Kent Police for burning a poppy?"

Poppies are the symbol of Remembrance/Armistice/Vet's day in Europe; yes it's offensive as hell, but...really? Stay classy, UK.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/nov/12/teenager-arrested-burning-poppy-facebook

[msongs]

1. why are poppies "offensive as hell"? nt

[loli phabay]

4. i thinkthink its the burning of it that is offensive

[redqueen]

8. Poppies are worn on lapels to symbolize due reverence for fallen soldiers.

I just try to keep my mouth shut and my head down. This teenager hasn't learned that lesson but he's on the way.

[loli phabay]

13. yup they signify the poppy fields of france which flourished after ww1 on the shelled earth

[Bandit]

33. "Flander's Fields the poppies grow to mark the Dead"

To Flander's Fields the Hippies go to "Feed their Heads" ~ Guess Who

[Mec9000]

69. Belgium not France nt

[loli phabay]

70. i guess my geography of flanders field must be wrong not

It covers parts of belguim and france

[slackmaster]

35. Poppies all bloom in early Spring. Wearing (fake) ones in November never made sense to me.

Well, maybe in the Southern Hemisphere.

[loli phabay]

42. read upthread its to signify the green fields of france were the red poppies dance

Its actually a very good symbol.

[slackmaster]

47. I'm well aware of the story and the symbolism. They make sense on Memorial Day in May.

I have that type of poppy naturalized in my yard. On Memorial Day they're usually past their prime but still blooming.

People typically hand out plastic or silk replica flowers for Memorial Day. What I find odd is that they do the same thing for Veteran's Day (or Remembrance Day as it's called in some countries.) In November there is no trace of any kind of annual poppy plant visible.

[loli phabay]

49. the commonwealth dosent have memorial day just armisice day in nov

[slackmaster]

50. I used to know some older people who referred to it as Armistice Day in the US

Veteran's Day dates back only to 1954.

I regard it as a very solemn occasion.

[moxie.lu]

10. remembrance poppy (papaver rhoeas)

since 1920 it has been used to remember fallen soldiers, so burning it is seen as really offensive.....

[Posteritatis]

19. While I definitely think that's an insane overreaction..

... Poppies as a remembrance emblem are probably the single most sacrosanct symbol in the entire Commonwealth.

Stuff like this is pretty much the single most guaranteed way to cause offense to as many people as possible in most of the member countries. If someone's seeking a reaction, like this dolt was, that's an easy way to do it, while also unhinging people enough to overreact in the process.

[sir pball]

53. It's an act of insensitive fuckery so colossal. .

..it could blot out the sun. And I don't think there should be any legal repercussions.

An angry infantry company with bars of soap in towels in the other hand...never said speech shouldn't have consequences

At work, signing off for a while.

[Posteritatis]

56. Agreed on both counts.

I usually have a "meh" reaction to people being deliberately offensive for its own sake, but this reflexively pissed me right off. It's one of those You Don't Do That Goddammit things up here, at least socially, but social YDDTG things and legal YDDTG things aren't necessarily one and the same of course.

[sir pball]

72. "Pissed me off" is an understatement.

YDDTG is a great acronym, I'm going to adopt it.

Yeah, legally, well, no speech or expression should be YDDTG but like I said...soap wrapped up in a towel won't cause permanent damage, so DON'T DO THAT GODDAMNIT

[sir pball]

73. For the record

I don't like war, I don't like kids dying in wars, and I'm not a big fan of war in general...funny that WWI was the same petty political squabbling that made wars up till then and then seem petty until a couple of these things happened.

And then there was a lot of legitimate crap that led to that whole concept of total war that ended up with that fight that killed a LOT of people. And then we went to proxy-ass (I blame BOTH SIDES EQUALLY) wars that [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_war|killed] well, a SHITLOAD of American boys. And now we're back to the petty geopolitcal squabbles that make us fight and die...and I really just wish we grew Flanders Field, for WWII and beyond...imagine so many more acres of poppies. A vast field of lost humanity. Maybe then we'd learn.

[sir pball]

30. I did mean burning them on 11/11, not the flowers themselves. nt

[backscatter712]

58. Poppys are the symbol of fallen UK servicemembers.

So burning a poppy in the UK on Armistice Day is right up there with burning a flag, as far as offensiveness.

That said, arresting and jailing someone for doing that is not cool.

[snagglepuss]

2. This idiotic arrest is the logical outcome of laws banning Koran desecration.

[loli phabay]

7. good point

[Turborama]

11. Which laws, where?

[dipsydoodle]

17. Encompassed within uk hate crime laws

Last edited Mon Nov 12, 2012, 04:21 PM - Edit history (1)

Doesn't need to be explicit.

The guy who. is the subject of the OP is an idiot. I've no doubt he will subsequently need police protection.

[loli phabay]

24. yup a lot of pongos matelows and cpraphats will be looking for him

Squaddies look on this shit very badly

[dipsydoodle]

27. They will given time

Last edited Mon Nov 12, 2012, 04:09 PM - Edit history (1)

to remove association.And one night he will hear someone say "hello sunshine : we understand you like hospital food......"

He may have the EDF to contend with too.

[Turborama]

63. But the poster I was replying to was being specific

"This idiotic arrest is the logical outcome of laws banning Koran desecration."

As if there is a law in the UK singling out desecration of the Koran.

They are singling out the Koran as getting special treatment when it shouldn't, because "the logical conclusion" is it will result in occaisions like this.

IOW Ban the ban on arseholes burning the Koran to stop arseholes getting arrested for burning a poppy.

The "logical conclusion" I got from it, this is another arsehole burning something that's very important and special to a lot of people just to make them pissed off and very angry.

[dipsydoodle]

64. I can only assume

she fell into the trap. of drawing comparisons between the US and the UK.

[snagglepuss]

18. I refer you to the UK 2010 law regarding inciting racial hatred

http://old.richarddawkins.net/discussions/570393-a-letter-to-the-home-office-legal-protection-for-sacred-books


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/nov/25/girl-arrested-allegedly-burning-quran

[Turborama]

65. A link to a letter to an Islam hater and an article about an arrest for inciting religious hatred

So, no specific "laws banning Koran desecration", then.


Just "inciting religious hatred".

This idiotic arrest is the logical outcome of laws against inciting religious hatred?

[snagglepuss]

66. Dawkins hates Muslims? Utter piffle. What Dawkins doesn't like is Islam which

is a set of beliefs.

[Turborama]

68. Corrected

It's not known for sure whether he hates Muslims or not, granted.

[WinkyDink]

3. This arrest is simply beyond the pale.

[Berlum]

5. "Please don't burn me, bro." - Poppy (R - CIA)

[merrily]

12. LOL!

[BainsBane]

61. :)

[B2G]

6. I read that as 'puppy'

thank god that wasn't the case.

that said, WTF??

[merrily]

16. I read it as "poopy."

In my defense, I posted on the Grover Norquist poopyhead thread not long ago. '

[dipsydoodle]

22. As did I

Better clean my glasses.

[merrily]

36. Between puppy and poopy, we're a good bet to miss the point of the OP!

[dipsydoodle]

9. Kent

.

[merrily]

14. Of course, disrespecting veterans is a criminal offense

Disrespecting veterans is a gateway to being anti-war.

Then again, maybe the arrest was for posting "squadey cunts," whatever that means.

[loli phabay]

25. sqaddy is a nickname for members of the british army. infantry in parpticular.

[merrily]

38. In that case, are we sure the spelling police weren't the ones who arrested him?

Thanks for the info.

[loli phabay]

40. lol ironic that i spelled it wrong as well theres a q in there

[loli phabay]

45. damn double fail i meant a u

[truebrit71]

15. It was deliberately provocative act about a very sensitive topic on a very sombre day..

....and should have been left alone...what the Kent Police did was way out of line but sadly a logical extension of the erosion of "free speech" that the UK has suffered...

When the former England and Chelsea skipper John Terry was convicted of racially abusing a fellow black footballer by calling him a "stupid black cunt" I said it was a very sad day for England. Not least of which because if the shoe was on the other foot and John Terry had been called a "stupid white cunt" no-one would have batted an eye-lid...

The Brits (me among them) have always said that an un-written constitution is better than a written one, because it can adjust with the times...unfortunately this example shows why a written constitution would be very handy indeed...

[merrily]

20. "if the shoe was on the other foot and John Terry had been called a "stupid white cunt" no-one

would have batted an eyelid."

In the U.S. statements along those lines have raised many eyebrows, especially on the right, but also on the left.

Are you certain a statement like that would not result in a single batted eyelid in the UK?

[dipsydoodle]

21. Not one single eyelid

.

[merrily]

34. Just to be clear, are you referring to "cunt" or "white?" (Please see my reply 31.)

[dipsydoodle]

48. Well white on its own wouldn't cause any more concern

than the couplet. I've no concept of why it should.

[loli phabay]

26. no one would have said a thing not even the match referee

[merrily]

32. Please see my reply 31.

[stevenleser]

28. No. The 'C' word doesnt have nearly the offensive connotation in the UK that it does here.

I was sitting in a Scottish bar one day (Scottish themed and mostly Scottish patrons elsewhere in Europe, not in Scottland), when one person (male) at a table loudly and drunkenly referred to a female member at his table as that word (actually, full reference was you "Fockin Scottish C--t&quot his table started laughing, including the lady at which it was directed, and the rest of the bar went on like nothing happened, while I nearly fell off of my stool in shock.

[loli phabay]

29. i explained that fanny is actually a worse insult in scotland it will get you stabbed

[merrily]

31. I was not referring to the c word or feminists. I was referring to the w word (white).

In the U.S. there would have been an outcry about racism against whites. Joe Scarborough alone would have worn our ears out over it.

[truebrit71]

57. Not one that would have resulted in a week long trial, no...

..The entire episode was ridiculous from start to finish...

[Spider Jerusalem]

67. Here's the thing though, if it'd been someone insulting John Terry?

They would've called him just "stupid cunt". Race wouldn't have entered into it. So yeah, Terry's comment had a racist undertone. He shouldn't have gone to court over it, though.

[truebrit71]

75. I agree...partially...

Calling John Terry a 'stupid cunt' simply points out the most obvious thing about him, he's as thick as a brick. Terry calling a black man a "black cunt" merely points out the most obvious thing about him...unless it was news to Anton Ferdinand that he is indeed, black. Calling an overweight guy a "fat cunt" is not Fat-ism or fat-ist, so the whole 'racist overtones' doesn't enter into it imho..

I full agree on your last point, as the not guilty verdict after a five-day trial proved, no, it shouldn't have gone to court..

[Nye Bevan]

23. The scary thing about this type of arrest,

is that it is not much of a leap from here to arresting people for using rude words to describe the Prime Minister.

The First Amendment is a beautiful, wonderful thing.

[maxsolomon]

37. I thought it was about Opium!

Like, he posted the equivalent of himself smoking Opium...

[merrily]

39. Reminds me of the Wizard of Oz movie.

[Blue_Tires]

55. +1

[Brighton Left]

41. Really David Cameron?

The police love to cut down on social network controversy because it's easy to pursue. Read more about the poppy issue on Brighton Left. com the blog for UK liberals [link:http://brightonleft.org.uk/?p=149|

[dipsydoodle]

44. The troops who died were doing their job

I promise to take the piss out of your link whenever I get the opportunity.

[Generic Other]

43. "calculated and deliberate" insult to the dead

so now the you can be arrested for offending dead people by burning flowers.

While the generals and captains of industry who killed them walk free. Who paid them low wages and stole from them their daily bread. Who tricked them and followed them. Who ignored their pleas for help. Who sent them to war. Who killed them in war. Who starved their widows and children.

Where have all the flowers gone? Burned to ashes every one.

[loli phabay]

46. its much deeper than offending the dead by burning flowers

This is a very disrespecful act. Dont agree with the arrest but if i was him i would apoligise as the squaddies will be gunning for him.

[WinkyDink]

54. You must be unaware that "disrespect" is not illegal nor does it require apologies. Are you saying

that "squaddies" will become murderers over a match taken to a flower? Are the squaddies you know all this insane?

[loli phabay]

59. nothing to do with insane they just take this seriously. not murdered but if found

They would give him a kicking.

[sir pball]

74. And one well deserved

Also, one that he should suffer. The police would be well to leave this alone, barring permanent injury (as I've said, soap in a towel is great).

[tama]

78. You are very sick nt

[sir pball]

79. Never said I was a nice guy

Hey, it's not like I'm wishing harm on the kid. Just a painful lesson about Not Being A Dick. I'm not the only one, either..

[tama]

80. Painful lessons about not being a dick or "not a nice guy"

can be very educational to all of us. Especially if you find the strength to learn from the experience and express gratitude for your teachers. It's all part of the healing process...

[Quantess]

51. How is this any different than

muslims freaking out over someone drawing a caricature of Mohammed?

Okay, there are differences, but, I am just saying I see the similarities.

[Bucky]

60. That is the best analogy. It's not like just burning a flag. It's hating an idea.

[geardaddy]

52. While the act was incredibly stupid, the arrest is just as troubling. n/t

[BainsBane]

62. More so

and I am thankful for our First Amendment. What would Americans do without the constitutional right to be assholes? I'm only half kidding. If one believes in free speech, it means tolerating offense. You can always tell them what jerks they are.

[morningfog]

71. I thought this was going to be about Bush, Sr.

[valerief]

76. Why would burning Poppy Bush be offensive? nt

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

77. EEK!! Whats next?? Boiled cabbages? Baked potatos? Barbecued onions? Ground wheat?