General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsBreaking Judge Chutkan orders Slobby's lawyers to respond to Jack Smith's request for a protective
order by Monday 5.00pm
Yeeeees!
LetMyPeopleVote
(145,762 posts)allegorical oracle
(2,357 posts)start raging in 3..2..1
Response to malaise (Original post)
sinkingfeeling This message was self-deleted by its author.
LetMyPeopleVote
(145,762 posts)malaise
(269,248 posts)Good
panader0
(25,816 posts)malaise
(269,248 posts)How are you coming on?
panader0
(25,816 posts)Good to hear😀
Ms. Toad
(34,119 posts)and rather than redline the proposed order, Trump's team created an entirely new one. Which, along with Trump's threat, seems to have triggered the Friday motion.
It's a nasty trick which I've been subjected to. There are tools that are reasonably good at producing redlines, provide there aren't too many changes. But they can easily go haywire and just cross out massive sections of text and replace the with massive sections of new text - even when only a few changes have been made.
LetMyPeopleVote
(145,762 posts)There were a couple of firms that my old firm did not trust on redlining.
I like redlining and will often do my own redlines on documents just to be safe. My firm's litigators and family law lawyers use a form of redlining that only shows up when you print the document. I like the form of redlining used by corporate types
Ms. Toad
(34,119 posts)but redlining has come a long way.
I don't trust redlining I get from opposing counsel, and always ran my own. It used to be pretty hard to get a decent redline without manually creating one, but compare drafts does a decent job recently. Although it doesn't handle moves well - so moving just a sentence or two can throw the redline into a tizzy.
The funniest changes (not specifically redlining) came when on of our administrative assistants (which I kept getting pushed to use) had to alter a form for me. She apparently couldn't figure out how to do it, so she changed the font to white . . . which kept printing in the .pdf as black. I'd send it back to change. She'd insist she changed it. She'd do something with it again. I'd reprint it - the offending text was still there. I finally figured out what she had done, showed my bosses (as well as my time that would be charged to the client - or eaten by them - as a result of me using the administrative staff). I think that mostly ended the push for me to use administrative assistants. My time was about triple on that document simply because the administrative assistant didn't know what she was doing.
Almost as bad as the ones who learned on typewriters and hit enter at the end of each line . . .
(I am from the era when I learned touch typing in 7th grade, and type nearly as quickly as any administrative aid - and also have extensive experience with running and writing software. So using an administrative assistant was almost always a time drain for me.)
Ocelot II
(115,930 posts)even before TFG indulged in another fit of stochastic terrorism on his fake Xitter account. Its purpose is to make sure that certain of the discovery materials the prosecutors are about to turn over to TFG and his lawyers are not released to the public, since they would include, among other things, the names and statements of witnesses. TFG's latest threat was included at the last minute - since he did it only hours before the protective order motion was filed - to emphasize the seriousness of the request and the possibility of witness intimidation that TFG's post suggests. The motion does not include a request that the court order sanctions or change the terms of TFG's release (the judge could do that on her own), since that would require additional briefing and an argument as to why the post constitutes a violation of the magistrate's warning, and what should be done about it. That could come later, of course, especially if he does it again; and TFG's lawyers are required to respond to the prosecution's motion. For now, though, unless the judge decides to do it on her own, TFG is not going to be dragged to jail like people keep saying. It doesn't work that way.
I didnt think this was an immediate lock him up action. 😀
vlyons
(10,252 posts)what the consequences would be should he do it again. That means he would get 1 last warning. I think that's what will happen -- a one and only 2nd chance to comply.
How humiliating for a woman to have power over him. His rage must be enormous. Maybe he'll stroke out.
Artcatt
(344 posts)🙄
Ms. Toad
(34,119 posts)Smith just included it to (1) make the court aware of it and (2) heighten the need to get a protective order in place sooner, rather than later.
The proposed protective order, itself, doesn't address his implied threat. It is solely about protecting the discovery disclosures.
LetMyPeopleVote
(145,762 posts)As you noted this was part of the process. As a corporate lawyer, I was amused that TFG has to provide a redline showing any changes that TFG's attorneys want in the DOJ proposed protective order. That redline will be amusing.
For non-lawyers, redline is a means on showing changes in documents. I remember redlining documents manually and the software for showing changes between drafts of documents really helps.
Alexander Of Assyria
(7,839 posts)for the conclusion, but when was that a problem?
When the evidence is governed by the rules of law, not the internet.
Ms. Toad
(34,119 posts)and chose not to. (That's in Smith's response to Trump's motion.)
LetMyPeopleVote
(145,762 posts)Alexander Of Assyria
(7,839 posts)Recycle_Guru
(2,973 posts)and the way Trump preciously used social media to threaten, scold, to try manipulating outcomes.
Recycle_Guru
(2,973 posts)the fact is they amended the previous pro forma request with recent example Trump just posted.
And the judge uses the weekend to issue her order that defense respond by 5pm Monday.
Very satisfying they are signaling a desire for speed without rushing whole also opening salvos to straightjacket Trump from trying to poison/threaten jury or other court officials.
Ocelot II
(115,930 posts)So I give up.
Alexander Of Assyria
(7,839 posts)something else legal.
MorbidButterflyTat
(1,876 posts)a routine protective order, why wasn't it submitted when Slobby was arraigned just days ago?
orleans
(34,088 posts)and trump team said no to some or all of what it contained, so this is smith's round 2 motion and because of when it was filed (10 pm friday) he included trump's douchebag post in it that had come out a few hours before.
wnylib
(21,724 posts)could the judge order an amount of cash or equal property value as bail to ensure that he abides by the terms of remaining free? Then if he violates it, he forfeits the cash or property?
Alexander Of Assyria
(7,839 posts)wnylib
(21,724 posts)grumpyduck
(6,276 posts)Blue Owl
(50,541 posts)Mr. tRump is finally getting the treatment he so richly deserves....
Marius25
(3,213 posts)Let's hope that happens, but not holding my breath.
LetMyPeopleVote
(145,762 posts)Here is a story from AP
Link to tweet
https://apnews.com/article/trump-election-capitol-riot-indictment-protective-order-71cd642e876c47fff4e1283c15f8ca01
Prosecutors on Friday requested that U.S. District Court Judge Tanya Chutkan issue a protective order concerning evidence in the case, a day after Trump pleaded not guilty to charges of trying to overturn his 2020 election loss and block the peaceful transition of power. The order, different from a gag order, would limit what information Trump and his legal team could share publicly about the case brought by special counsel Jack Smith.
Chutkan on Saturday gave Trumps legal team until 5 p.m. Monday to respond to the governments request.
Such protective orders are common in criminal cases, but prosecutors said its particularly important in this case because Trump has posted on social media about witnesses, judges, attorneys, and others associated with legal matters pending against him.
Ocelot II
(115,930 posts)his threat on fake Xitter - it would already have been in the works before that, and wasn't in response to it. However, it certainly makes Smith's argument even stronger, and I'll be very interested in seeing how TFG's lawyers respond and if they even mention the fake Xitter post.
ancianita
(36,192 posts)not just the usual discovery process. Whether or not they even mention it, the judge is aware.
allegorical oracle
(2,357 posts)by 10 minutes his (or someone on his staff) post showing photos of Biden and the five prosecutors. Out of context his threat could be interpreted to refer to anything he wants it to mean at that moment.
malaise
(269,248 posts)Agree 100%
usonian
(9,928 posts)Together, all the context you need.
No bullshit deflection.
allegorical oracle
(2,357 posts)usonian
(9,928 posts)In back-to-back posts on his social media network, the disgraced, thrice indicted ex-president threatened prosecutors, witnesses, future jurors and anyone who dare to go against him.
In a post made Friday at 3:35pm ET, Trump published an ominous attack ad dubbing Fulton County DA Fani Willis, Manhattan DA Alvin Bragg, New York AG Letitia James, and Special Counsel Jack Smith "unscrupulous accomplices" of President Biden. The ad finishes by labeling the prosecutors and the president "the fraud squad."
Roughly 40 minutes later, Trump warned in all caps, "IF YOU GO AFTER ME, I'M COMING AFTER YOU!"
The image URL fails on DU, so I copied it and re-uploaded it.
DDG found the images with a search on "fraud squad" trump social threat thread
(DDG -- DuckDuckGo is basically Bing)
ExWhoDoesntCare
(4,741 posts)I mean, really, when y'all see a telly guide for a show called "Criminal Minds," do you think of the criminals...or the FBI agents going after them?
Same thing here. The meme can easily be interpreted as referencing the people going after fraudsters, not that they are frauds.
Only a very stupid person would think that makes Biden and etc look bad.
MorbidButterflyTat
(1,876 posts)doesn't know to whom he is referring.
Evolve Dammit
(16,793 posts)wnylib
(21,724 posts)the prosecution and judge can make the point that it applies to everyone, and that would include prosecutors, witnesses, and jury members. .
The vagueness works against the orange mobster this time.
Evolve Dammit
(16,793 posts)Evolve Dammit
(16,793 posts)wnylib
(21,724 posts)I am just basing my comment on the English language and how it could be logically interpreted by the court.
Evolve Dammit
(16,793 posts)Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)mind to make sure they don't say or do anything that has an unimpeachable singular meaning. He automatically has his tandem "cover" story ready too.
Evolve Dammit
(16,793 posts)Hekate
(90,939 posts)Recycle_Guru
(2,973 posts)LetMyPeopleVote
(145,762 posts)malaise
(269,248 posts)That is all
allegorical oracle
(2,357 posts)Repug field of opponents, the prosecutors could be in peril. (Know they have security, but so did JFK.)
ancianita
(36,192 posts)EndlessWire
(6,573 posts)but it's pretty nifty how it got revised in a heartbeat to include Trump's latest threat against the Court. The swiftness of the motions and orders is satisfying. Trump's attorneys must have a real headache, thinking up excuses for his vile anger.
I doubt that these Judges will be swayed by the phony excuse he now offers. At any rate, here is an admission that it was a threat. He's just trying to steer it into a dead end that he thinks will fly.
Trump makes it easy for Jack: Judge, this is what we need, and oh by the way, look at his contempt of Court! LOL, I keep wondering which DU member won the guesstimate for how long it would take Trump to run his mouth.
Judge has given herself until Tuesday to decide what to do. She might have to do this as a matter of course, but I'll bet that she is more interested to hear whatabout the threatening post than anything else. The Magistrate took extreme care to instruct Trump not to do this, and basically instructed him that if he did it, he would be subject to whatever punishment Chutkan thinks is appropriate, up to and including pretrial incarceration.
Of course that is what we want to see! Of course it is! Not ashamed to say it, and it seems fair and appropriate. This is contempt of Court. If he gets away with it, he'll do it again. How arrogant of him. She should order him into custody (have the SS surrender him by Wednesday) and then let the attorneys argue in open Court about why they think it is not contempt.
At the very least, she should put him in lockup for the length of the argument. Or, several hours. She could take it under advisement, have a long lunch, and let him go before 5 p.m. That would be enough of a warning. Bring him back in and tell him AGAIN not to threaten the Court, the Prosecutors, the Jury, the Witnesses, or anyone else that he wants to claim was the subject of his tirades.
Trump deserves to be in the cooler.
malaise
(269,248 posts)wnylib
(21,724 posts)give him more delaying tactics by appealing the incarceration to higher courts for violation of his right to travel during a campaign. Regardless of how baseless the claim for appeal, we know that he would do that.
Instead, I think that the judge should set new terms for his release that require him to put up cash or property as bail to forfeit if he violates the terms of his release.
He'd still fight any forfeiture when (not if) he violates the terms, but it would reduce the martyrdom image and give him the risk of monetary loss if he violates the terms of release and loses an appeal over forfeiting his bail.
ExWhoDoesntCare
(4,741 posts)In favor a defendant in a contempt of court case was if the judge demonstrated extremely prejudicial behavior--things like calling him a criminal, or insulting him with slurs, or subjecting him to an unnecessarily cruel or unusual punishment.
If she simply holds him to the word he made, then she's free and clear.
So he can appeal as much and as often as he wants, but that doesn't mean the appeals court will indulge him iif the judge renders the contempt decision in a professional manner, and well within the scope of the law.
And she will.
wnylib
(21,724 posts)Last edited Sat Aug 5, 2023, 05:51 PM - Edit history (1)
having Trump post cash or property bail as assurance that he will not violate the terms of his release again.
If he is imprisoned, it will not only feed into his martyrdom for his fans, but it will also risk violent outbreaks from them. They will be less likely to get violent over him losing money than being incarcerated.
Response to malaise (Original post)
Chicago1980 This message was self-deleted by its author.
republianmushroom
(13,785 posts)Is this going to be the last warning, or will it come after the next time, for the last order ?
30 months and counting
Evolve Dammit
(16,793 posts)Lonestarblue
(10,130 posts)Grand Jury testimony on Truth social with lies about its accuracy? We all know he cant keep his mouth shut. I can just see him going off on Pence for testifying about his determination that Pence should break the law and refuse the legitimate slates of electors. Are there consequences, such as a true gag order or taking away his electronic devices and his right to post on social media? If that happened, he would just get someone else to post his threats for him.
LetMyPeopleVote
(145,762 posts)Jack Smith rejects the need for delay
Link to tweet
Here is a link to the latest motion filed by Jack Smith
https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.dcd.258149/gov.uscourts.dcd.258149.12.0_1.pdf
defendant suggests that the delay will enable Defendant to fully assess the Proposed Order and
advise the Court of applicable law. ECF No. 11 at 1. Nothing prevents defense counsel from
doing just that on the schedule already ordered by the Court. To the extent defense counsel wants
to confer further, Government counsel is available at any timeevenings, weekends, or holidays.
And if the Court enters the proposed protective order and the defendant later is dissatisfied, the
defendant can seek to modify the order at any time.
malaise
(269,248 posts)No delay
LetMyPeopleVote
(145,762 posts)LetMyPeopleVote
(145,762 posts)Celerity
(43,655 posts)Jean Barnes, her aunt, is the mother of former Liverpool and England footballer, John Barnes.
Infamous picture:
Liverpool's John Barnes backheels a banana that was thrown onto the pitch, accompanied with monkey noise chants, during a game at Everton in 1988
malaise
(269,248 posts)Remember though that Manley is this case is Norman (Michael's father). Her dad was a medical doctor(orthopedics) and her mom was one of the star dancers with the NDTC. Her dad was Indo-Jamaican and her mom Afro-Jamaican.
And yes the racists are everywhere
Celerity
(43,655 posts)literally, lol).
malaise
(269,248 posts)Easy reading with a great Chapter on Jamaica Welfare, one of Normans great programmes.
Celerity
(43,655 posts)Walters new book tells the Jamaican story
https://www.ronfanfair.com/home/2017/1/15/walters-new-book-tells-the-jamaican-story
Calling it a masterpiece and significant literary and historical body of work that all Jamaicans should be proud of, University of Toronto professor emeritus Dr. Keith Ellis hopes that Ottawa resident Ewart Walters new book, We Come from Jamaica: The National Movement 1937-1962, will be published in Spanish. The renowned scholar, translator and Latin American literature critic is confident the book will appeal to the public in Spanish-speaking countries, particularly Cuba and Venezuela who, he said, relish books and are voracious readers.
This is the book of an outstanding essayist, said Ellis who was the first Jamaican-born scholar to be awarded an honourary doctorate by the University of Havana and the first Black to be elected a Fellow of the Royal Society of Canada which is the highest honour a scholar can receive in the arts, humanities and science. There is the literary art that hes aware of and that he has practiced to perfection in the book. Its that literary art that draws readers to the content.
We also find him zooming in an out and capturing the ubiquitous and constant movement, the vibrancy of the country and the people he portrays. He has found this fitting technique which is itself a symbol because of what comes through as his real motivation for writing this book and that is his enduring respect, his love and wanting the best for the Jamaican people. The publication charts the course of the national movement, a period and group of people who were instrumental in propelling Jamaica out of slavery and apprenticeship to nationhood and independence. The Toronto book launch took place last week.
This was a period when people were really serious about taking on the task of doing for themselves what the colonial masters didnt do, didnt allow us to do or didnt give us an opportunity to do, said Ellis who graduated from Calabar High School and taught Spanish and History for three years before migrating to Canada and lecturing in Latin American Literature and Culture at the U of T for 37 years. It was a very challenging era and it was good to see Jamaicans in one way or another taking up the challenge.
Writing is an obsession for Walters. After spending a year with The Public Opinion that folded in 1962, the Jamaica Gleaner and the Jamaica Daily News with which he worked from its inception in 1973 to 1976 (the publication ceased in 1983), Walters started The Spectrum monthly newspaper in August 1984 after leaving the Jamaica Foreign Service, having served five years as counsellor in Ottawa and a year as consul in New York.
snip
When they came home we always got together for a meal. Lovely peeps he and wifey. Was buried yesterday. He loved his cricket and was a good player.