Suppose you were kidnapped by someone who only had a little time left to live...

[yurbud]

Maybe he botched the kidnapping and the cops put a bullet in him that didn't kill him but is fatal in the long run. You know that sooner or later, he'll be dead, and you'll still be alive.

How would you deal with the kidnapper's demands?

Would you drain your kids' college funds and your and your parents retirement accounts to pay his ransom? This guy is a career kidnapper, so even though he's dying, he'd have time to transfer your money to his friends and family so it would be difficult to impossible to recover.

Wouldn't you just stall and try to jolly him along until he loses consciousness and you can kick the gun away from him and leave, but give him as little as possible?

This is more or less the situation Obama is in now, with Republicans as the kidnappers, demographics as the bullet, and the last election as the cop that put the bullet in them.

The Democrats in the Senate are arguably cops just outside the kidnappers hideout, and they could end the whole thing a lot sooner if they bust in the door by ending the filibuster.

Of course part of why they don't break down the door is some of the cops are on the take from the same mobster the kidnappers work for, the other cops know it, but the dirty cops are too powerful to take down.

[brooklynite]

1. ...because in the meantime, the kidnapper can shoot you in the leg and burn down the House...

...there are real-world implications to a failure to resolve the "Fiscal Cliff" issue.

[Chan790]

3. There really aren't though.

The things the GOP is insisting on in a settlement, are the worst things that will happen if we go off the cliff.

If we do nothing, the cuts occur anyways. If we do nothing, the Bush tax cuts end.

I propose that unless the GOP are willing to put their sacred cows on the table while they demand that we put ours on the table or unless they take ours off the table...we do nothing.

[RobertEarl]

17. Exactly

The republicans made this bed. Therein they lie.

If he does nothing that might be the best thing Obama can do.

[HereSince1628]

5. Fiscal cliff = consequences of sequestration. It's a man-made crisis

and it can go away just by raising the debt ceiling.

Raising the debt ceiling will be a natural response to the base jumping that needs to happen to get rid of this stupidity.

[yurbud]

9. It's more like autoerotic asphixiation

Democrats asphixiate themselves, and Republicans get their rocks off.

[Myrina]

13. "We have nothing to fear, but fear itself" ...

... somebody famous said that once, I think. POTUS needs to let the GOP know that he's not going to play Chicken with them. Period.

[hobbit709]

2. I'd help him bleed out a little faster.

[unblock]

4. well the problem is that republicans still control the house in the new congress.

yes, it's certainly viable to postpone the day of reckoning, whether through an agreement to extend some things a few months into 2013 or to just "fall off the fiscal cliff" -- because actually a lot of the fiscal cliff implications can be fixed retroactively, albeit at the expense of ongoing uncertainty.

and yes, there will be more democrats in congress at that point.

but so what? the house republicans would be just as obnoxiously obstinant with a 1-seat majority as they would with 100% of the house.

[HereSince1628]

6. Conservatives understand fear. Let's jump the cliff and scare the shit out of them!

All that needs be done is dump the stupid sequestration legislation and raise the debt ceiling.

Really.

[yurbud]

10. My point was much broader than just this particular artificial crisis

[unblock]

11. well, sure, say twelve years from now, democrats should be a far stronger force.

the demographics certainly favor us, but the republicans are not without money and tricks to keep their incresingly tenuous grip on power for a number of years.

so what do we do in the meanwhile?

in the long run, as they say, we are all dead.

[yurbud]

14. If Republicans had the Presidency and one chamber of Congress they would effectively ignore

the Democrats apart from browbeating them to vote with the GOP from time to time, and it wouldn't even take a beating, just a finger twitch for Dems to capitulate.

It's frustrating that Dems don't play all out like that.

[unblock]

16. that's for damn sure. the power of money

republicans have no shortage of money, and at least a few states/districts, some democrat always seems to need money and the odd conservative vote to stay in office. democrats just don't have the kind of money to compete with that to keep every last democrat in check. so republicans can almost always pick off a few dmeocratic votes when they need them.

hence the need for a STRONG majority.

[yurbud]

18. an alternative theory on Dem spinelessness: when big business knows a Repub can't win

they back or find the most conservative Democrat they think can make it through the primaries.

That person is free to vote their conscience on cultural issues, but on war, the economy, Wall Street regulation, privatization, and sometimes taxes, they vote with the Republicans.

I think that's why Howard Dean's 50 state strategy irked some top Dems: it could have put heat on corporate owned Dems to act like Dems or be removed.

[rock]

7. Analogies in politics are like farts on a skewer

Please try to avoid them.

[yurbud]

8. actually, they can clarify things pols are intentionally trying to muddy up

and the GOP uses them to great effect.

[Myrina]

12. I'd wait him out. Or make him take me with him.

With a big "FUCK YOU" on my lips as I died.

[yurbud]

15. I agree with waiting him out. That's why any concessions Dems give them are so frustrating

as well as their unwillingness to obstruct the GOP.

I seriously think Baby Bush went so all out because they knew that might be their last chance in the driver's seat.

If Dems had thrown even the subtlest obstacles in their path, they might have done far less damage and withered on the vine a lot sooner.