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bigtree

(86,005 posts)
Wed Oct 18, 2023, 10:19 AM Oct 2023

We should be careful not to conflate Hamas' militarism with the Palestinians

...it wasn't just 'Hamas' who initially supposed the deadly explosion outside the hospital in Gaza was from Israel.

Many people on the ground, including reporters, had questioned whether Hamas had the capibility and firepower for such a devastating blast. The resulting ripple of accusations from the wider Arab community was actually an echo of a generational struggle between Israel and that mostly Muslim population. It shouldn't be viewed in isolation of these current events.

The media isn't a stranger to that back and forth fight, either, and most all of the reporters made certain to hedge their descriptions of what happened to say that there would be an investigation to determine the actual cause. That's an understandable consequence of the fog of violent conflicts.

The accusations against Israel following the explosion happened (and will likely persist among people who are not Hamas) because Gaza residents and others aren't strangers to Israeli bombs falling on their hospitals and their civilians.

The accusations and recriminations against Gaza residents and others will persist because of the violence suffered by Israelis at the hands of Arab militants.

What I think is a danger here, is that the latest attacks become shorthand for whatever incident occurred, and both Israelis and Palestinians are going to view each other through the lens of that violence that's perpetrated or is incidental against them and cast blame.

This back and forth doesn't end with this incident, because there will be countless more bombings which each side will represent as a defense against the other.

One of the most important things to stress for those of us looking on from the outside (here in the U.S. and elsewhere) is that the overwhelming majority of Palestinians in Gaza or anywhere else aren't the ones committing violence.

There isn't a militant or combatant force in Gaza that has anywhere near the coordination and support that the Israel military has right now, all arrayed against and surrounding the Gaza strip on land and sea, and none of that militarism directed at Israel has been approved by Palestinians in anything resembling the Knesset and their unified decision to wage war against Hamas.

There isn't any Palestinian parliament or council to direct or restrain Hamas. Non-combatant Palestinian civilians are experiencing violence and other assaults on their lives and living conditions, and it doesn't make a material difference in any of that in who they chose to blame. They don't control the factions which are fighting. They're just victims of it all.

The U.S. posture toward Gaza residents and inhabitants can't be the same as Israel's. That American attitude can't be the same as it was when our own military was dropping bombs on sovereign citizens across borders in Iraq and Afghanistan in a fight against a terrorist group that had mostly fled and was in hiding.

It shouldn't be the same posture most Americans assumed against the Muslim world when our own country was attacked. Or even the same attitude most Americans took toward those violently resisting our military occupations and killing our soldiers deployed there.

Most of the coordinated and supported military attacks by Israel are directed against the land Palestinians inhabit to the tune of 2 million. There is no Palestinian army stood up against an Israel mobilized to war, only refugees trying to get out of the way of the falling missiles.

Gaza residents are not going to be understanding about any of the latest violence stemming out of the original attacks Hamas directed against Israel. But why should it matter who they blame? This wasn't the first Gaza hospital to suffer the mayhem and destruction of the continuing war between the combatants.

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We should be careful not to conflate Hamas' militarism with the Palestinians (Original Post) bigtree Oct 2023 OP
Uninformed speculation is dangerous. Everyone should have stayed quiet until the facts emerged Raven123 Oct 2023 #1
+1 2naSalit Oct 2023 #2
I think we need to realize it on both sides sboatcar Oct 2023 #3

sboatcar

(415 posts)
3. I think we need to realize it on both sides
Wed Oct 18, 2023, 11:53 AM
Oct 2023

While a response to an attack from Hamas is warranted, the overwhelming force that IDF has exerted against the people of Gaza isn't going to help the situation at all. I'm not sure, but I'd be willing to bet that the majority of Israeli people aren't in full support of this war. Neither side is doing anyone any favors here, but I feel like the situation that Israel ended up putting the Gazan people in, by walling them off, and essentially treating Gaza like its nothing but terrorists doesn't improve the goodwill towards them at all. It creates an environment where its easy for extremist groups to recruit people, and then it just continues to spiral further and further out of control.
Unfortunately I think the people in charge in both places are in the wrong in this situation, and they have been for a long time, and its the civilians who end up suffering because of it. It seems like there's been a lot of dehumanization between both Hamas and Israel's governments, and that makes it easier for the more extreme elements to commit atrocities. I just wish both sides would take a few steps back and start talking like reasonable people. Destroying Gaza isn't going to help the situation at all, and neither is firing thousands of rockets from Gaza and kidnapping and murdering people on the part of Hamas.
Its a really sad situation, and I wish that calmer heads would prevail there, but I don't really see much hope in either side backing down.

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