NYT: As Gazans Scrounge for Food and Water, Hamas Sits on a Rich Trove of Supplies

[BlueCheeseAgain]

As supplies of virtually every basic human necessity dwindle in Gaza, one group in the besieged enclave remains well-stocked: Hamas.

Arab and Western officials say there is substance to Israeli claims of Hamas stockpiling supplies, including desperately needed food and fuel. Hamas, they say, has spent years building dozens of kilometers of tunnels under the strip where it has amassed stores of virtually everything needed for a drawn-out fight. It is a reality that Israel may soon find itself grappling with if it makes good on its threat to invade Gaza.

Hamas has hundreds of thousands of gallons of fuel for vehicles and rockets; caches of ammunition, explosives and materials to make more; and stockpiles of food, water and medicine, the officials said. A senior Lebanese official said Hamas, which is estimated to number between 35,000 and 40,000, had enough stocked away to keep fighting for three to four months without resupply.

Later on in this article is this rather interestingly phrased paragraph:

The supply situation speaks to the relative sophistication of Hamas as a fighting force — an axiom among military professionals is that while amateurs talk about tactics, professionals talk about logistics. Yet with Gazans facing a humanitarian catastrophe, Hamas’s stockpiles raise questions about what responsibility, if any, it has to the civilian population.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/27/us/politics/palestine-gazans-hamas-food.html

Isn't Hamas the government of Gaza? How can they not have responsibility to the civilian population? They may not care about the civilian population, but as the government and army that holds Gaza, they surely have the responsibility.

In any case, maybe some of the condemnations for the awful humanitarian crisis in Gaza should be redirected to Hamas, who have plenty of fuel for fighting and rockets, but seemingly none for hospitals and ambulances.

[PCIntern]

1. What is it going to take for people to realize

what these terrorists are all about? They’re not freedom fighters.

[Ace Rothstein]

5. The side that refers to them as freedom fighters are completely dug in on their position.

They'll never admit to being wrong.

[Just_Vote_Dem]

62. What worries me is when I see those who I considered intelligent progressives

absolutely refuse to accept facts. I expect that from the right.

I cannot even imagine what Jewish people must be going through seeing some of these reactions

[dalton99a]

11. One has to assume a big chunk of humanitarian aid will disappear into their tunnels and bank accounts

[KewlKat]

39. Not an assumption but a reality.

[wnylib]

44. This BBC report confirms that Hamas

steals humanitarian aid for itself, at the expense of lives in Gaza.

https://unwatch.org/unrwa-reports-hamas-stole-humanitarian-aid-hillel-neuer-on-i24-news/

[Cha]

60. Of Couse the Butchers of HAMAS DO That. Shame

on anyone who believes their LIES.

Link to tweet

[AloeVera]

61. This is a pro-Israeli Lobby Group.

Not the same as the BBC as you must know.

Funded by the American Jewish Committe since 2001, UN Watch is focused on the removal of UN personnel critical of Israel.

Also rated right-biased.

https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/UN_Watch#cite_note-4

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/un-watch/

[wnylib]

63. I looked up a link on the story after

BBC overnight radio reported on Hamas stealing humanitarian supplies. So the original news about it reached me directly via the BBC.

[LexVegas]

2. Hamas are barbarians. nt

[betsuni]

3. K&R

[brewens]

4. No elections, no responsibility to the people who aren't voters. We already have a system where Congress ignores the

voters, even some on our side. They work for the big donors.

[JI7]

6. The people of their district voted for those members

and most will be reelected by the people .

[WhiskeyGrinder]

22. It's estimated about 7% of the current population voted for Hamas.

[JI7]

23. Haven't heard much opposition to them

[WhiskeyGrinder]

24. where do you listen

[JI7]

25. Many places and in fact I have heard support for them

[WhiskeyGrinder]

26. huh

[Violet_Crumble]

36. 'Many places' translates as GD posts that include 'FUUUCK HAMAS!!!!'

I've been at DU for many years, and of those many years I spent most of them in the I/P forum. I never once saw that person post in the forum or anything about the conflict apart from a general distaste in GD posts for Muslims in general....

[wnylib]

45. That's because Hamas tells them that

it is Israel that prevents them from getting needed supplies and aid and they must support Hamas to defeat Israel.

[Cha]

7. Hey fucking Hamas Terrorists

Share your wealth of Supplies!!

[speak easy]

13. I've always like the way you express yourself in demur ladylike language.

[Just_Vote_Dem]

14. Reminds me of my aunt

Rest her soul-she took no shit from anyone lol

[Cha]

15. Yeah, that went out the window

a few years ago.. and has been escalating ever since.

It supposedly helps my sanity. lol

[NowISeetheLight]

16. Priorities

The human shields only need minimal food and water. As long as they have a pulse they serve Hsmas's purpose.

[Cha]

19. Yeah like.. Hamas Headquarters and Terrorist Complex is beneath the Al-Shifa Hospital in Gaza City.

Link to tweet

[Wonder Why]

28. Cha, stop sugar coating it. Tell it like it is! :)

[Cha]

30. Yeah, I do let loose..

That's just one reason why I like DU.. I'm sure people are getting tired of my bad words. I'm getting tired of having to use them!!

I don't talk this way in RL except to myself.

[Violet_Crumble]

37. You could almost be an honourary Aussie!

I can assure you we're far more sweary than you could ever dream of being. Like you, we sometimes turn into swear-bears when we're talking about something we have no fucking idea what we're talking about and we just want to drown out everything with stuff like 'fuuuuck those fuuuuckin' c*n*s!!!!' It's awesome, mate! We feel all morally high and mighty because we can say far more bad words than anyone else while distracting from the blatantly obvious fact that we have no fucking idea what we're talking about. Google? Nah, who needs that fucking shit when we can just swear our fucking way through this c*n* of a mess!

Anyway, when anyone asks me about the I/P conflict before Oct 7, I respond with a hearty 'What the fuck are you fuckin' talkin' about, ya fuckin' wanker? HAMAS SUCKS AND THAT"S ALL I NEED TO FUCKEN SAY TO SOLVE EVERYTHING!'

I'm declaring myself a winner when it comes to cornering the market on bad words. It's because it's a cultural thing with us and all of you just need to understand and live with it.

[Cha]

58. My son in law is an Aussie from Melbourne.. my

grandkids have dual Citizenship.. and two of live are living in Melbourne right now.

[wnylib]

46. I posted this BBC link upthread. You might want to read

this about how Hamas diverted UNRWA humanitarian aid to its tunnels. This is why Israel has been so reluctant to allow aid through Egypt. Shipments of aid to the civilians of Gaza end up in Hamas' control and prolong the war, which prolongs the suffering of the Gaza civilians.

https://unwatch.org/unrwa-reports-hamas-stole-humanitarian-aid-hillel-neuer-on-i24-news/

[Cha]

59. Mahalo for letting me know, wnylib..

[oldsoftie]

8. Hamas views civilians as a defensive option. They only care about destroying 🇮🇱

Its LONG past time for the Arab nations to call them out on all this & demand that they let the Palestinians elect REAL leaders who will accept the FACT that Israel isnt going anywhere.

[cloudbase]

54. Israel uses their weapons to protect their people.

Hamas uses their people to protect their weapons.

[oldsoftie]

64. WELL PUT

[Beastly Boy]

9. Hamas is sitting on vital supplies that could sustain 2 million Gazans for a week.

Inside Gaza. And they are hoarding the already available supplies. All of it.

Who is the war criminal here inflicting collective punishment on Gaza civilians?

[The Magistrate]

12. An Observation, Sir

Hamas is looking for a Gotterdammerung.

If the people of Gaza go down in the blood and fire Israel brings to Hamas, Hamas hopes the ruin will be sufficient to move armies to their aid, and if this fails to occur, then the Arab people will have failed their religion and its warriors, and those people in their power will receive in their bodies the punishment for their lack of devotion and obedience to God. Either way, the strategic plan calls for mass suffering to be inflicted on Gaza's people.

It is in essence a colossal murder-suicide, with the man holding the gun on several huddled clerks screaming that he won't shoot if he gets his dream kitchen, but that if he doesn't, well, just look what's going to happen.

It's a mistake to view these events as if the actors driving them were rational. The place of emotions, particularly disturbed emotions, is seldom given proper weight in either current or historical events.

[Beastly Boy]

21. I wouldn't dream of appealing to Hamas' common sense. I am trying to appeal to the common sense of

the people who are not known to be religious fanatics, and in the process I am getting used to being profoundly disappointed.

There is, however, as you pointed out, self-interest in their actions and it doesn't include total annihilation. How much their self-interest coincides with the interests of the Hamas handlers, is the big question. While their charter quite literally calls for Gotterdamerung, it is only intended for Israel, and this goal is unattainable for the foreseeable future.

It seems more likely to me that the unrest in, not the total destruction of the largely Sunni Gaza is the strategic goal, created and directed by the Shiite Iran. The conflict between Israel and Hamas is primarily designed to further destabilize the entire region: Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia and Turkey, as violent expressions of outrage, real or manufactured, affect the stability of these Sunni states. Hamas itself is far removed from considering such lofty regional ambitions or its consequences. This only plays into the hands of the Shiite Iran, as it did in Syria and Iraq. Hamas is the tool, not the craftsman wielding it, and I am guessing that the consequences of their attack on Israel are very much an afterthought for them. It is likely that Hamas didn't have any strategic goals going into this war, and Israel's response to their aggression was a surprise to them.

[yardwork]

42. Part of the problem I think, Sir, is that too few Americans understand 9/11.

Too many Americans ran to simplistic explanations without learning much about the motivations of the people behind the 9/11 attack.

If we had, we as a citizenry would have a better understanding of the emotions and motivations of people living in the Middle East.

Americans love to pick sides. We love a story with good guys and bad guys. We especially love the trope of the "lone crazy evildoer taken down by good strong men who defend their families." This myth serves us very poorly.

[Beastly Boy]

53. You touched on my pet peeve, which is much broader than the ignorant naivetee of american public

with regard to foreign affairs.

Much of the time, I get an impression that the entire American education system promotes mediocrity and apathy as its intended ultimate objective. The end result is the populace possessing but a little knowledge. And, as Alexander Pope warned us long ago, it's a dangerous thing.

[yardwork]

57. That's an interesting point.

I recall feeling hopeless when George W. Bush was promoted as the better candidate because he was a C student, in contrast to that "know it all smarty pants" Al Gore.

We saw the same dynamic in 2016. Millions of Americans preferred a boorish fool to "that woman" Hillary Clinton.("who does she think she is, anyway.&quot

Much of our political discourse reminds me of 10th grade, where the smart hardworking students were sneered at by the people who grew up to be MAGATs.

[Chautauquas]

47. The answer to your question

is Hamas. And Israel. Both are inflicting collective punishment on civilians.

[maxsolomon]

10. That is a much larger force than I had thought.

The extended bombing campaign makes sense: degrade their tunnel system (and therefore supplies) as much as possible prior to engaging directly.

I am curious where all the dirt from the tunnel excavation went - probably out to sea.

[David__77]

17. Of course, the Israeli authorities will not allow the non-combatants out of the battle zone.

While one can argue if they were usable, the Syrian state set up humanitarian corridors during the battle in Aleppo. No corridors in Israel.

[Beastly Boy]

32. It took four years of brutal warfare for the Syrian government to set up a humanitrian corridor in Aleppo.

A pretty ridiculous analogy.

[David__77]

33. It was not cordoned until 2016.

Before that it had access to the rebel held countryside. Regardless, Gazans have no corridor, and babies are being killed.

[Beastly Boy]

38. Five months between total siege and establisgment of a supply line.

Still a ridiculous analogy, and you knew it.

Now, all you have left is "babies being killed". And who is hiding their military targets where babies live?

Oh, it doesn't matter, blame Israel anyway.

[wnylib]

48. Hamas is killing Palestinian babies.

https://unwatch.org/unrwa-reports-hamas-stole-humanitarian-aid-hillel-neuer-on-i24-news/

[Cha]

18. Apparently HAMAS Headquarters and Terrorist Complex is beneath the Al-Shifa Hospital in Gaza City.

Link to tweet

[Maru Kitteh]

35. Because Hamas wants Palestinians to suffer and die for more Hamas power.

Hamas said they planned this for two years. So they PLANNED to have all the food, water and fuel they needed, and they PLANNED for Palestinians to die and suffer terribly.

[SouthernDem4ever]

20. Hamas doesn't care about the average citizen in Gaza

If they did, they would not have attacked in the first place.

[JustAnotherGen]

27. That's why

The Gazans are poor - all humanitarian aid for years has been taken from them by these assholes.

It's not Israel and the rest of the world - its from within.

[yardwork]

41. This. There could have been peace decades ago.

[wnylib]

49. Hamas is still stealing humanitarian aid

right from UN agencies.

https://unwatch.org/unrwa-reports-hamas-stole-humanitarian-aid-hillel-neuer-on-i24-news/

[SoFlaBro]

29. MAGA Hamas shitstain motherfuckers.

[Eko]

31. "It became necessary to destroy the town to save it."

[Maru Kitteh]

34. Hamas said they've been planning this for two years. That means they PLANNED for Palestinians to

suffer as they are. HAMAS PLANNED for all these civilians to die, to starve, to drink brackish water and water from the toilet. HAMAS PLANNED for Palestinians to live without electricity or any communication. Hamas planned for the hospitals to fill with dead and wounded and no way to help. They planned this.

[wnylib]

50. They justify it in their mission of destroying Israel.

[yardwork]

40. How can Hamas not have responsibility to the civilians they govern?

How can Republicans not have responsibility to the Americans they govern?

[rollin74]

43. Hamas is far more concerned with killing Jews than with the plight of civilians in Gaza

We've seen it over and over again. They commit atrocities and then hide behind civilians.

[gulliver]

51. This is why phone communications should remain open.

Gazans need to know Hamas elitists aren't scrounging. Every time a Hamas leader has a nice breakfast, it should be news in Gaza.

[Ontoepistemic]

52. State-Sanctioned Violence and Civilian Casualties

In the unfolding narrative of the Israeli war, one might find it difficult to untangle the web of actions, reactions, and broader consequences. Yet the urgency to do so is palpable. Indeed, the crux of the matter resides not merely in the physicality of war—of strikes and counterstrikes—but also in the ethical domain, where the application of military force becomes a troubling expression of state-sanctioned authority.

The war has taken a new, devastating turn with Israel escalating its ground operations in Gaza. This expanded operation, substantiated by air and naval forces, represents a critical moment in the war against Gaza's ruling faction, Hamas. Israeli Defense Minister Yoav Gallant remarked that the war had transitioned into a new stage, declaring that "the ground shook in Gaza" as military forces struck both above and beneath the surface.

It's vital to approach this statement with an ethical scrutiny that does not go unnoticed when one speaks of lives lost and futures shattered. The Israeli military operation, seen as retaliation for Hamas’ previous incursion into Israel, has had catastrophic consequences for the civilian population of Gaza. What becomes evident is that the retaliatory strikes do not seem to solely target combatants or military infrastructure. Instead, the reverberations are felt most profoundly among innocent civilians.

The ethical question looms large: does a state’s right to self-defense warrant a campaign that results in the mass death of non-combatants? As per the territory’s Health Ministry, the Palestinian death toll has eclipsed 7,700, a majority of whom are women and minors. Can one, in good conscience, argue that such a loss of life is proportionate to the initial incursion by Hamas? And if not, then do these actions violate the foundational principles of just war theory, which mandates both proportionality and discrimination in the use of military force?

Moreover, the very mechanics of war have made Gaza an enclave cut off from the world. Communications are largely disabled, leaving the citizens of Gaza unable to call for medical aid, even as their residential buildings crumble under the might of aerial bombardments. The destruction of basic infrastructure has not only made life insufferable for Gazans but has also curtailed their ability to narrate their own experience, allowing the Israeli military to control the overarching narrative.

In examining the American involvement, one must consider the long-standing U.S.-Israel relationship. While the U.S. has consistently defended Israel's right to self-defense, it has largely refrained from commenting on the proportionality of its actions. In this way, American foreign policy has offered tacit approval of Israel's military endeavors, thereby entering into a morally complex paradigm that prompts the question: what is the ethical responsibility of states that enable or support actions resulting in civilian harm?

These inquiries are crucial in assessing the ethical texture of the conflict. The justifications for war cannot be examined without confronting the ethical and moral dimensions that surround the death of non-combatants. The implication is not merely a theoretical discourse but has a practical bearing on the lives of thousands who find themselves entrapped in a situation not of their making.

Yet, what remains is an open-ended reflection: as the war escalates and the world watches, can we engage in a collective moral reasoning that goes beyond the superficialities of who is right and who is wrong? Could this form the basis for a global ethical dialogue, not only for the present conflict but for the manner in which all conflicts are perceived and, ultimately, resolved?

The quest for a more humane world hinges on these philosophical inquiries. As the war rages on, they are questions that neither side can afford to ignore. Just Saying.

[comradebillyboy]

55. Both Hamas and Israel hold Palestinian lives in low regard.

The absolute savagery of the Hamas atrocities gives cover to the stepped up repression of Palestinians in Judea and Samaria as well as a big reduction in the population of Gaza.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

56. Who is surprised by this?

Hamas is using the residents of Gaza as human shields and not care if these people suffer due to Hamas' actions