Jewish Protesters for Peace being arrested by NYC police

[womanofthehills]

https://youtube.com/shorts/DAbifvSaSRc?si=NnRS6iDSsPunhoGr

And a second video - make sure to watch the video above too

?si=PVEmsO2x_L2rp4q6

[David__77]

1. I'm very thankful for them.

[NoRethugFriends]

2. Check out who that group really is rather than responding reflexively. Astroturfing.

[Sympthsical]

4. Yep

Like the Israel/Palestine war version of Jews for Jesus.

Weirdly, not as many Jews involved as you'd think from the name in both cases.

[enid602]

7. Evangelicals

Jews for Jesus, Fellowship of Christians and Jews etc are right wing evangelicals who try to get Hasidim to move from the east to Israel to make it more conservative. They want escalation/WWIII, as this will portend Jesus’ second coming. The Jews will be given about 15 minutes to accept Jesus Christ as their lord and savior, or they’ll fry for eternity. I’m not on drugs!!

[Sympthsical]

9. Precisely

And Jewish Voices for Peace are anti-Israeli radicals who don't want Israel to exist and attack any other Jews who do. It consists mainly of non-Jewish radicals who are using the name as a PR cover for their very anti-Jewish words and behaviors. Like JFJ, you can rustle up some actual Jewish people from JVP here and there, but they are not the main drivers of that particular car.

They've been known for some time, and they do not want peace.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

6. Yeah,

they're not a very nice group, to be mild about it.

[JI7]

11. Yeah, has a blacks for Trump feel to it

[Violet_Crumble]

18. Are you saying all Jews must think in lockstep??

That any Jew who thinks all civilian lives are equal are MAGA?????

[JI7]

19. Blacks for Trump was mostly made up of White people

[Violet_Crumble]

21. And?

There's some punchline here that I'm sure you're going to deliver with an amazing amount of flair. I need to bail soon and make dinner so I haven't got long to hold my breath waiting.

Are you going to return with some AH-HA!!! moment where you personally approached each and every person protesting to test their Jewishness? I hate to break this to you, J17, but Jews are the same as everyone else. They hold a very diverse range of views on things. I've got at least one Israeli friend and more than a few US Jewish friends who would agree with the protest. So, why are you claiming to be some expert on what Jews should think?

[Behind the Aegis]

22. Court Jews

A great term, that fits with these people, well, the ones who are actually Jews.

[Violet_Crumble]

25. Here's the link so you and J17 can go interrogate them!

https://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/

How dare any Jew think differently than you? Also, I'd be thinking that someone who was adopted into the Jewish faith should be the last person to be questioning other Jews. It's kinda mildly whiffing of a bit of antisemitism tbh.

[Behind the Aegis]

26. Thanks!

Oh BTW, how dare you tell ME what it is to be a Jew. That you would question MY being Jewish, and implying I am not a real Jew is what whiffs of anti-Semitism. I don't need you to 'splain shit to me about Judaism!

"How dare any Jew think differently than you?" How DARE you! Don't throw fucking strawman arguments at me, then use to attack ME as a Jew! I think Jews can have different opinions, and we can disagree, what I can't abide is Jews who stand up for everyone else but FAIL to stand up for Jews when it is needed. BTW, Court Jews are also on the right and I can guarantee you wouldn't DARE accuse me of what you accused me of here.

[Violet_Crumble]

27. No problems!

Let's get something cleared up. I didn't tell YOU what it is to be a Jew. After all, it wasn't me who replied to someone who equated Jewish Voice For Peace with Blacks For Trump by saying 'Court Jews. A great term, that fits with these people, well, the ones who are actually Jews.' If I'd said that, you'd have every right to yell at me in random caps lock and bold and I'd sit here and cop it on the chin....

So, sure. You think Jews can have different opinions, but those who show sympathy for Palestinian civilians are, well, maybe not even Jews, and at best Court Jews, which btw, I had to go google coz I'd never heard of that term. I can understand the total frustration in thinking there's Jews who stand up for everyone else, but when the chips are down are nowhere to be seen. Did you read about one of the kidnapping victims, an elderly woman who's deeply involved in Israeli/Palestinian peace networks? Her family, apart from being worried about her, are worried that Hamas will get the contacts off her phone and punish the Palestinians they find. I had a sense of WTF-that's-so-very-wrong that a woman who's so passionate about peace has been betrayed by Hamas. I'm not sure if she's someone you'd label as a Jew who stand up for everyone else but her own people, but just in case, I mentioned her.

Cheers, and apologies for upsetting you...

[brooklynite]

3. Good...

If you're going to commit civil disobedience, an arrest is to be expected.

Meanwhile, thousands of people who didn't attack Israel or Gaza were delayed getting home.

[stopdiggin]

8. somehow, that part of the equation has completely escaped

a whole segment of 'activists'. (and society)

Hey - fair's fair. You're willing to 'sacrifice' for your cause ... Got it. So don't boo hoo and get all shocked and indignant when they slap cuffs on you and end up in a holding cell. Part of the deal, right?

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

[Sympthsical]

10. To be fair, American History 101 might be next semester

It's ok. They've read pamphlets.

[womanofthehills]

32. What's a little delay compared to thousands of dead innocents?

Latest Gallop poll - more Dems are pro Palestine.

Democrats' Sympathies in Middle East Shift to Palestinians

https://news.gallup.com/poll/472070/democrats-sympathies-middle-east-shift-palestinians.aspx

[brooklynite]

35. And how did delaying the commuters address the greater issue?

[MarineCombatEngineer]

5. Ok.....and?

Are they disrupting business?
Are they refusing to leave after having been warned?
Don't get me wrong, I fully support one's right to PEACEFULLY protest and if they are disrupting business, then it becomes not peaceful and they will be arrested for a minor infraction.

[stopdiggin]

12. +1. consequences

there's a phrase that enjoys great popularity among a certain population ... "F -- around - and find out"

[MarineCombatEngineer]

13. +100. nt

[Silent Type]

14. Don't know much about this group; but, unless they are inciting riots, doesn't sound like democracy.

If it’s a Nazi group, or something, I wouldn’t say that.

[stopdiggin]

15. where did we come by the (rather naive)

idea that 'democracy' means 'protest' garners immunity from consequence?

We do try to avoid beating people to the ground, and firing live into crowds - and that is more 'consideration' than protest is provided in many parts of the world. But a free pass .. ? Where did this idea come from?

[Silent Type]

29. Appreciate your assessment. But I'm for more protests about lots of things. I get many people are for shutting down

anything they don't agree with, but I don't think that is democracy. In fact, I find it very un-democratic.

[stopdiggin]

30. interesting that you should use the terminology 'shutting things down'

as that points to a tactic often employed ...
Again, the curious idea that your 'speech' or political/social agenda allows for you to 'shut down' - an airport, a major arterial, the subway system (my ability to get to work?). How about the power grid? The water supply? That fair game too?

Marching for the TV cameras, poignant and expressive placards and signs, emotional speeches - that's all fine and good. Making a concerted effort to monkey-wrench the system, and other people's lives - that goes to another level, and another level of purposeful intrusion and combativeness. And (to my mind) is deserving of 'response' from the effected public. And there's not a single thing 'undemocratic' about people (collectively) deciding that they have a right to use the public transportation they are paying for. Again, if you're willing to take things to that level - then no boo-hooing when someone is slipping the cuffs on, and removing you from the train tracks.

Circling around - maybe we both can agree that 'shutting things down' - is not a tactic that we approve of? Coming from either direction?

[Silent Type]

33. Let me suggest that you read without pointing at -- and mouthing -- each word.

[stopdiggin]

34. I'm fairly happy with what I said.

If I misunderstood what you were attempting to say ... Apologies.

[JI7]

16. you usually need permits for large gatherings

[Silent Type]

28. I've been to a bunch of protests without permits.

[wnylib]

17. I heard an interview on NPR today from a former

Muslim woman who said that the Western left protesters are naively supporting terrorism because they do not have a complete understanding of what is going on.

https://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2023/10/27/hamas-problem-palestine

[Violet_Crumble]

20. What she said is interesting. But I haven't seen people supporting Hamas

What I've seen, especially here at DU, is people being accused of supporting Hamas because they dare to express concern about Palestinian civilians. Unless yr mindlessly posting 'FUCK HAMAS! MAHALO! FUCK HAMAS', you're not looking deeply enough into the complexity of the conflict, which we all know only started on 7 October 2023. If anyone mentions anything before that date, it's that whole "BUT BUT BUT!!!' and whatabouterry thing.

Anyway, about the support of Hamas accusations. I'd be interested to see anything that is support of Hamas. Even if we were to downgrade them to a resistance movement, they're totally shit in their religious crap and anti-woman, LGBTQI stance. Murdering innocent civiilians puts them in the same league as extremist Israelis who burn teenage Palestinians alive. https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-09-28/ty-article/.premium/israel-asks-family-of-palestinian-boy-burned-alive-for-view-on-reducing-killers-sentences/0000018a-dc87-d681-a7ca-ddb755760000

The difference for us in the West is what the media tells us is important. We're fed a steady drip feed that Isreali lives are valuable. Every death is accompanied by sobbing relatives, a life story and the horror of how they died. That doesn't happen with Palestinians. They're every bit as human as Isrealis, but for some reason Americans in particular scoff at their deaths, justify the violence of the way they died, and side with an extremist RW Israeli govt that speaks in genocidal language and didn't protect its own people when instead it was 'mowing the lawn' because that's all it thought it needed to do to make the Palestinian people invisible to the world.

[wnylib]

23. The people who support the humanitarian needs of

Palestinians in Gaza are, I believe, motivated by concern for the human rights of all people. The Gazans need people to speak up for them because their own "leaders" certainly are not.

But one problem with the protesters on behalf of Gazans is that, while many of them denounce the level of brutality against the Israeli civilians who were tortured and slaughtered, they believe that the October 7th terrorist attack was a rebellion of Palestinians against Israeli suppression. Some even incorrectly refer to an "Israeli occupation."

Israel did not occupy Gaza when the attack occurred. No Israeli troops in Gaza. Palestinians did not attack Israeli civilians in a rebellion for freedom. Hamas attacked Israel, and not to free Palestinians. Hamas attacked Israel because Hamas is a gang of terrorists who believe that Israel should not exist and that it is their mission to destroy Israel.

Hamas suppresses Gazan civilians, as Yasmine points out in her interview. Hamas kills Gazan civilians by using them as human shields, which is a violation of international law and a war crime. Hamas is killing Gaza civilians by stealing and hoarding food, medicine, and fuel for themselves. Their latest theft was from a UN site that had stored humanitarian aid, as reported tonight on the BBC.

Demands to get humanitarian aid to Gaza civilians are understandable and just demands, ordinarily. But as it stands now, Hamas controls Gaza and any aid to civilians will be confiscated by Hamas to sustain themselves in tunnels and will never reach the people who need it. They are not freedom fighters. They are not fighting for a Palestinian state. They are fighting against the existence of Israel. They justify starving the Palestinians and killing them as human shields for the ideology of destroying Israel.

Hamas leaders seek their own power and control, not the present or future wellbeing of the civilians of Gaza. When protesters on behalf of Palestinians view this war as a fight for Palestinian freedom against Israel, they inadvertently encourage the terrorists by making them into martys for a Palestinian cause that the terrorists do not support.

This is a war between Hamas and Israel, and Hamas is not representing Palestinian civilians. Hamas is representing Hamas.

EDITED TO ADD:

https://unwatch.org/unrwa-reports-hamas-stole-humanitarian-aid-hillel-neuer-on-i24-news/

[Violet_Crumble]

24. I agree with much of what you said...

I think it's possible to feel absolute horror for what's happened to the murdered and kidnapped Israelis, but also feel the same level of horror for Palestinian families who've died in Israeli bombings of Gaza.

I also don't think it's a war in the true sense of the word between Israel and Hamas. Hamas isn't Palestine and can't go to war on behalf of the country. Israel, on the other hand, is armed to the teeth, and isn't going to lose a war against any regional threat, no matter their existential fear, which tbh is reasonable based on history.

I have no faith that the current extreme RW Israeli govt will do any rational thinking right now. I think it's up to the US to calm the farm and settle things down. There's absolutely no dispute that Hamas needs to be dismantled, removed, destroyed, but it needs to be done with a bit more than destroying every Palestinian home and family. For a long time the Israeli govt quietly encouraged Hamas as they saw a divide and conquer strategy for the Palestinians as a low-cost way to go. There was Hamas in Gaza and the corrupt and ineffectual PA in the West Bank keeping the Palestinian people separate and fighting between themselves. Once Hamas is gone, I really hope what arises from the ashes is a true resistance movement because the Palestinian people deserve far more than what they've got over the past decades. Also, it'd be really good if the people of Israel could hang out in their own country without having to worry that someone's going to attack them. That doesn't extend to extremist settlers in the West Bank, who I wish had been at that music festival and the Kibbutz's that were attacked instead of innocent people.

[leftstreet]

31. DURec