FLIP the TICKET!

[TigressDem]

Tag team and switch - HARRIS for President and BIDEN as VP.

Creates great excitement in a "NEW" candidate that MAKES HISTORY... or should we say "HERSTORY" as she'd be the FIRST female President. (Should have been Hillary, but DEMs got to keep trying to make that happen.)

People worried about Joe's age.... as VP he'd be more in the background and dealing with Senate which he can do easily. He's NOT ego driven, so as long as the list he and Kamala want to accomplish gets done... he'd probably enjoy watching her shine and giving her Dark Brandon support.

She's young, energized, working on messaging and already been training for the job as the VP has to step up if anything happens to the President.


She already has a list of what needs to be done and can work to tailor it with more progressive items while she and Joe work together to get MORE done as long as they get the TRIFECTA in 2024 and keep our Democracy in tact.


What do people think?

[Autumn]

1. No. I'm with Joe.

[TigressDem]

3. But you STILL get JOE. He doesn't go away.

And the campaign trail is harsh. He can get a lot more done in the end of this term if he isn't the one having to do all the running around in 2024.

The "age thing" is the biggest hurdle and the perception that Joe isn't "progressive enough" so a younger person at the forefront with all of Joe's experience in the wings and essentially 2 Presidential level candidates on the ticket will bring back a lot of people that are looking at Kennedy, Phillips, Williamson, West or Stein.

People whose only arguments are on age and messaging and Republicans who don't want tRUMP or Independents won't see this as "throwing away" their votes.

Age is the ONLY consistent reason Democrats are giving in these polls but there are some wanting more progressive actions as well. Having Joe still working in the background on everything we need while Kamala has the conversation and draws more people in....

I mean, even having Joe as VP, you'd still see his worth and give him a chance to Dark Brandon it, wouldn't you?

[Autumn]

32. He will be fine on the campaign trail and he will win. Should he decide not to run I support a primary.

[jcgoldie]

2. Riden with Biden

Harris will get her shot in '28.

[TigressDem]

4. But you still get Biden.

And because VPs are more under the radar, he can continue to keep getting things done and Kamala does the majority of the campaigning which is hard on anyone.

It's STILL the same team, but with enough of a difference to energize voters AND Joe doesn't go any where.

Think about how much his experience and connections benefited Obama and how much has to be done.

Keeping this TEAM in the White House keeps the agenda moving forward and gives Joe a little respite.
VP is still a huge job, he could still jump on picket lines, but he wouldn't be under the same minute scrutiny.

It would free him up to keep chugging along.

AND if it wipes the primary challengers out of the water, we have less dissent in DEM party and more people behind the team KEEPING Joe in the White House.

[jcgoldie]

7. He's "chugging along" just fine

All this is is capitulation to the ageist narrative. Like it or not he's the best chance we have for '24. BTW there are no "primary challengers" of note... there likely would be under your scenario.

[TigressDem]

11. Joe is going down in history as one of the greatest Presidents EVER.

Once the actual facts are written up and we have our Democracy functioning with a fact based press and not all these propoganda networks.

Even if a "primary challenger" isn't "of note" in your eyes, they take away focus and votes.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2023/us/politics/presidential-candidates-2024.html


IF we can get the Progressives and people honestly worried about Joe's age back on the ticket, we KEEP Joe. THAT is the point. WE NEED his experience and wisdom and we need to not be fighting.

[jcgoldie]

12. It is ridiculous to assume Kamala Harrris...

…would encounter less primary challenge than the incumbent at this point.

[TigressDem]

27. Yeah, but she's AWESOME in a battle of wits, comes fully loaded!

Her experience in court would allow her to take on this challenge and beat it down.

Joe is still rushing to get everything done that needs to be done.

I don't know.

People talk about Joe's age and I usually say, "So what? Anything happens to him we get Kamala."

As a team they are great. But DEMs always run capable people for these offices. EVERY choice put out there has their plusses and minuses.

I will vote for Joe Biden, don't get me wrong.

He's MY President and I am very proud of him.

I'm simply worried about how splintered the DEMs are and how voters rights are being squashed and making sure we have EVERY vote we need to keep this team in office.

[jcgoldie]

31. If your primary concern is that democrats are not unified...

.. then your idea is not remotely a step in the right direction.

If you are worried that Dean Phillips will weaken Joe Biden in the primaries... then

[TigressDem]

62. It keeps the team in the White House that is getting the job done.

The youth who are voting first time need something to be excited about.

The black voters who stand in line for hours might want someone they can believe in out front.

Joe is awesome, however, if we get a woman of color to the top then black women see that it's possible.

Together these two have done fantastic things and the groups that are putting out these other candidates will dig into Joe's lead.

Just trying to think of a way to bring back the blue Tsunami. Get 10 million votes ahead of the orange creapasaur.

[jcgoldie]

69. I assume this is some kneejerk response to polling

And yet you are perfectly fine ignoring all of the polling on Harris? It makes no sense.

[ColinC]

5. 👎

[tazkcmo]

6. Why?

Do you honestly believe more people will vote for Vice President Harris then they would President Biden? I don't.

[TigressDem]

8. I think they would vote for Harris to KEEP Joe.

It's about keeping THIS TEAM in office and continuing the work hopefully for another 8 years.

We are losing black voters and young people, both who might see Kamala as someone they can relate to.

They have her running around trying to make Joe more appealing to younger voters, but she is a fresh face with all of Joe's experience standing right beside her.

I LOVE Biden and he has done more work in his current term than most Presidents do in 8 years.

I respect him and admire his sincere devotion to every American.

This could appeal to groups we are losing and KEEP Joe in the White House.

[jcgoldie]

9. Joe Biden is not losing black voters

You are getting further and further into the weeds.

[TigressDem]

15. YOU are NOT paying attention.

While I admire and share your loyalty to Biden, even the "progressive news" is seeing this is an issue.

I can't listen to Santita Jackson on Air Amerca (WCPT820) any more. They are encouraging Cornel West to run and even MSNBC is talking about WHY the polls are showing Biden losing support.

CAN IT STILL BE OVERCOME?

Maybe. Probably. BUT IS THAT GOOD ENOUGH?

IF we go bold and shake things up, it's something harder for the REICH Wing to handle.

https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/biden-trump-election-polls-black-latino-voter-support-rcna103892

[tazkcmo]

13. Show me this loss, please.

TIA.

Assuming you have good info to support that claim explain how you regain the supposed lost support while keeping moderate to conservative (But fed up with Trump while still being racist and sexist).

I just don't see how the risk/benefit is positive. I see an unneeded change in lineup and strategy that demotes a sitting president and offering a much less experienced alternative a year from the election.

[TigressDem]

17. The polls may be flawed... but it is what they are showing.

AND I don't think of it as "demoting him" as much as setting Dark Brandon lose to keep doing what needs to be done and having Kamala out front doing the messaging.

SHE is MORE experienced because she has been VP during this term than any other candidate out there.


https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/biden-trump-election-polls-black-latino-voter-support-rcna103892

The Times’ analysis found that Biden’s support among nonwhite voters seems to have faded significantly since he entered office. He won more than 70% of nonwhite voters in 2020; now, according to the Times’ aggregation of New York Times/Siena College polls from 2022 and 2023, he only leads Trump 53% to 28% among registered nonwhite voters. The Times reported that Biden’s weak support among Black, Latino and other voters of color “appears to be mostly responsible for the close race in early national surveys, which show Mr. Biden and Mr. Trump all but tied among registered voters even as Mr. Biden runs as well among white voters as he did four years ago.”

[tazkcmo]

24. Thank you for the link.

I won't quibble about the veracity or accuracy of the poll only that I take them all with a grain of salt. We have a year to to GOTV and campaign while President Biden continues his outstanding performance as leader of the country.

Vice President Harris earned my primary vote. Joe Biden was my 2nd pick so it was disappointing Harris didn't win but I was a very happy loser to Biden. I like and respect her a lot and agree 100% she would and hopefully will be a great President but she simply is not more experienced than President Biden.

https://www.mprnews.org/story/2008/08/23/timeline-of-joe-bidens-life-and-career

Joe Biden started his political career in 1970. Kamala Harris was 6 years old. Senator for over 35 years. 8 years as VP. 3 years as President. Bonus points for being really good at all of it while being dealt personal tragedies that would leave most mortals a quivering mass of grief. Hats off and applause for Vice President Harris but math, history and a calendar show clearly President Biden has vastly more government experience.

[TigressDem]

61. All true.

My thought was to suggest a way to keep both of them as they are the right team and at the same time appeal to groups who are disenchanted with the "old guard" DEMS that seem to "need" their vote but can't deliver (mostly due to Rethug obstruction).

Same team but by flipping the ticket maybe more exciting?

I have never been more proud of a President than Joe Biden. Hence trying to make sure he stays in the White House because this team rocks and needs to finish what they started.

[onecaliberal]

52. The poll showing Trump ahead was paid for by Trump. Trump is not winning.

He’s not popular. I know the media is telling you that but you should wrap your mind around the fact that the media is against democracy period.

[TigressDem]

63. Where is your link to this?

I know many polls are rigged.

No Labels is definitely backed by Right Wing Extremists and run by the man who Clinton booted out because they were doing polling that didn't match the numbers.

But there are multiple polls and sources that are more liberal that are making these statements.

WILL they actually vote for Biden if we can convince them it's that or the death of Democracy? Most likely, but if there is a way to make things more palatable and still keep the same team in for 4 more years, that was all I am suggesting.

As Beau would say, "It's just a thought."

[onecaliberal]

68. There is a post here at DU with a link. I didn't bookmark.

[Demsrule86]

59. The polls are worse than flawed they are cooked...pretty much made up with the

weighted sample method...and let me tell you, Obama's polls were abysmal before his 2012 run. I literally wept when I saw them. I told hubs, were are going to lose. But we won and by 9:30 it was over. I expect similar results this time.

[TigressDem]

64. OK but where is our proof?

I am sure we all suspect this.

I haven't been asked to do polls except by the Dem Govs association and they make me pay to give my opinion.

I suspect that those who can't afford to pay don't get included.

We need better polls.

I want Biden to win by such a huge margin that NO ONE in the World can doubt it.

[tritsofme]

66. Huh? People don't pay to participate in polls.

Last edited Fri Nov 24, 2023, 04:04 PM - Edit history (1)

Whatever boxes the DGA gives you to check off in a fundraising appeal is not an actual poll.

[rsdsharp]

26. I've been voting in Presidential elections since 1972.

Never once did I vote for a Vice President. They are just along for the ride.

[Autumn]

34. Why would anyone vote for her to have Joe when we can vote for Joe again?

All due respect Harris couldn't generate enough excitement in the primary to win enough votes to be completive in 2020. I frankly don't see anything changing.

[flor-de-jasmim]

10. Joe has already done that job.

It would be demeaning to suggest that he is no longer capable, but hey we'll get to keep him anyway.

[TigressDem]

18. And did it well.

Joe doesn't have a huge ego. He's sticking with this to get the job done.

And again, WE KNOW that Joe has done more in his term so far than most Presidents do in 8 years.

He can continue to basically keep doing a lot of the work but not have to deal with having the full media target on his back. Getting things done is his strength, dealing with the media and talking himself up, not so much. It's kind of a humble Catholic thing.

Having Kamala take on the campaign heat, actually frees him up to get more done before 2024.

And it takes the steam out of all these people trying to knock Joe OFF the board entirely.

[tavernier]

14. That would be a mistake

for a whole list of reasons, not the least being that the world looks upon Joe as a super hero. If America decides to demote him to assistant, we would lose an amazing amount of credibility.

[TigressDem]

21. As VP he could go Dark Brandon and get away with more.

I don't think he'd lose any credibility. Anyone who matters understands he's done the best job in this situation anyone could have. AND we keep his experience and knowledge right there in the White House.

In fact, I bet tRUMP would start calling him the Shadow President, like Darth Cheney was for Bush.

VP is NOT an assistant. It's second in line, expected to step into those shoes if needed.

I think it's brash enough to upset the entire discussion and break up the side runners.

[mahina]

19. How does she get on the primary ballots with no time left?

She can’t.
When she could, she didn’t. She didn’t choose to.

We absolutely have to unify

[TigressDem]

22. Would she HAVE to primary him if they are simply switching positions?

They are both on the team.

They were elected as a team.

I'm not trying to pit her against him, simply find a way to keep Joe in the White House for 4 more years.

[tazkcmo]

29. So they just appoint her our nominee?

How does that work? Doesn't sound very democratic to me.

I appreciate your enthusiasm and your tireless defense of your proposal but besides being very impractical, radical and very risky with a real possibility it could have a negative impact, I have firm doubt that it would garner much support much less over whelming support.

We already have a winning team. A proven and winning team. Hard work and smart messaging, GOTV, etc is what will win this election, in my estimation.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

20. I disagree strongly with this suggestion

[TigressDem]

25. I get it.

It's been a thought mostly because we need this team to finish the job they started and Biden is getting so much flak when history will show he is one of the best, most productive Presidents EVER.

I am simply worried about the division that is already there.

Leading DEMs is like herding cats.

Sigh.

Gotta go.


Happy Turkey Day, everyone.

Thanks for your thoughts.

[Prairie Gates]

23. Oooof

I’d take the over on how many states we’d lose.

[elocs]

28. DON'T FLIP THE TICKET! I'm going to dance with the one who brought me and that's Joe Biden.

If the Left and Democrats simply choose to get out and vote for Biden, he wins.

[sheshe2]

40. I am with you!

?si=FCkW19i72ySHv7cZ

'Cause don't forget who's taking you home
And in whose arm's you're gonna be
So darlin'
Save the last dance for me, hmm
Save the last dance for me, hmm-hmm
Save the last dance for me, hmmm
Save

[Basic LA]

30. A bold & respectful thought experiment.

And you deserve credit for throwing it out there for discussion. It might not fly, but that's what this place is for.

[TigressDem]

65. Thank you.

I had hoped that one person would get it.

Thank you for being that one.

[Basic LA]

67. 👍

[Iggo]

33. Dumb.

On the one hand, why would I vote for somebody who’ll keep Biden when I could just keep Biden by voting for Biden?

On the other hand, if I think Biden’s not good enough to be President, why do I want to keep him?

See? Dumb and dumb.

[Initech]

35. No, we have to stick with Biden.

Any other candidate means MF45 wins, and we can 't let the bad guys win. There is way too much at stake in this election. If MF45 wins, we are truly, truly fucked. I cannot emphasize that enough.

[mcar]

36. Oh for gawd's sake

[Tribetime]

37. I say let Newome run....Landslide...if we lose

2024 it's over for good we can't risk losing

[Laura PourMeADrink]

39. Yup. Only hope :( Newsome is extremely quick witted and can rattle off facts!

[Tribetime]

48. Yep he is very quick witted best since Obama

Maybe better. I love how ne went on Hannity and destroyed him

[Demsrule86]

60. I know you like Newsome...but I don't see how he wins the rustbelt.

We can't win without the rustbelt.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

73. You may be right. Guess thats why people were

Suggesting Gretchen Whitmer as rm?

[JanMichael]

41. In the past I thought the "this is THE last chance" was BS

And it was. Generally courts held and things went on mostly the sameish path.

2024 is a different beast. It actually could usher on a Fascist corporate dictatorship.

These neo-fascist nutters are in the House and Senate and the USSC. If they steal the presidency in 2024 the courts and civil rights will be redone in Orban/Trump/Putin's image. It will be a colossal mess that will take generations to fix

[brush]

53. Newsom would make an awesome candidate but he's indicating he's waiting his turn.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

72. Yup. Without an early green light from incumbent...Fingers crossed

For a good outcome.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

38. So suggesting change one below water with another even worst below water? Hmmm:)

[Patton French]

42. Uh, no.

President Biden is rocking it. The polls people keep pointing to are BS. When are people going to start accepting success?

[BlueTsunami2018]

43. No thanks.

Kamala Harris’ can’t win a national election at the top of the ticket.

Fair or not, she isn’t viewed positively.

[brooklynite]

44. VP Harris isn't that popular...

I know many people here like her, but remember that she failed to gain support from Democrats in the 2020 Primary (she dropped out before the Iowa Caucus) and a not inconsequential number of 2020 Trump voters are uncomfortable that she would replace Biden mid-term; not because she's black or a woman, but because she's more progressive than he is.

[area51]

45. Nope. n/t

[Hekate]

46. No. Thanks for your input tho

[Raine]

47. Absolutely no, she polls lower then Biden. nt

[treestar]

49. Veep exists to take over

so an old Veep makes less sense.

[Ocelot II]

51. No.

[B.See]

54. What I find INCOMPREHENSIBLE is that WE let MAGA stir a narrative around Biden's age...

...while THEY in turn are DEVOTED to their lying, shuckster, p-grabbing "savior-anti-Christ" who's been 4 times indicted, facing 90 plus criminal charges and lusts after his own daughter.

Here we have a FASCIST WANNA-BE DICTATOR, who praises despots, and tells us up FRONT how he's going to create a GESTAPO STATE, manned by puppet loyalists, and jackbooted thugs who are going to persecute, prosecute, and/or haul off all liberals, political opponents, and other so-called "dissidents"

and we're talking about having to get "excited" over Biden?

I mean WTF????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

[Hekate]

56. Indeed. I am excited as all get-out about retaining our democracy, & Joe can do that

He’s been extremely productive since election.

Do we want “Democrats in Disarray” to go back to being hung on us forever? Or do we want to let “Conservatives in Chaos” be how the GOP goes down in history, while we “Democrats Hold the Line”?

[krawhitham]

55. Hard Pass

[LakeArenal]

57. Clickbait. No.

[Demsrule86]

58. No, it is too late for any changes. Joe is the incumbent and will be the nominee. He has

done a great job and deserves to be reelected. Kamala needs time to work on the rustbelt voters without which we can't win. 2028 will be her time.

[LW1977]

70. Harris should be at the top of the ticket in 4 years

Not now!

[tritsofme]

71. No thanks to that one too.

Looking forward to a competitive primary.