General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsOnce again PETA shows they have the same IQ as all of Free Republic...
former-republican
(2,163 posts)jmowreader
(51,149 posts)Flabbergasted
(7,826 posts)uppityperson
(115,724 posts)Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)Dogs and Turkeys are way closer to our level than a mosquito. Also, I kill mosquitos because they are harming me.
However, if you would eat a dog, why not a human?
WooWooWoo
(454 posts)watching my cholesterol
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)madinmaryland
(65,077 posts)hack89
(39,179 posts)they won't eat it if it doesn't look deep fried and tastes like bacon.
LadyHawkAZ
(6,199 posts)AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)We call them "The homeless".
Gore1FL
(21,632 posts)AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)uppityperson
(115,724 posts)I cooked a store turkey last night, though our 4 yr old small turkey still lives with our chickens. She has a name and is a pet, so I won't eat her.
The mosquito isn't causing much harm. Can you not afford to give 1 tiny drop of blood to save her life? Oh! The Huge Manatee!
If you consider that there are different levels of consciousness, you may notice dogs and turkeys are not on the same level as humans. That comparison is a silly as my mosquito one.
Bake
(21,977 posts)Big difference in brain size there ...
Bake
TalkingDog
(9,001 posts)n/t
BlueMan Votes
(903 posts)but even so- at what level of consciousness should an organism be considered too self-aware for us to eat...?
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)Logical
(22,457 posts)Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)I think they are cognizant of their existence.
4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)The wild variety are my neighbors. I'm sure you have a point, but perhaps not the one you think you are making.
4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)And you know that.
The ones raised for food are just slightly above potatoes when it comes to intellect.
PavePusher
(15,374 posts)and the dressing, and the squash, and the steamed carrots....
Equality for Turkey Now!!!!
4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)Never!
Sure god created all sides equal. But some sides he created more equal than others if you know what I mean.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)wild turkeys have a level of consciousness that places them "not in question" (whatever that means) but their domesticated cousins have somehow dropped down the consciousness scale to the point where they are "slightly above a potato".
Have I represented your argument correctly?
Your claim is that domesticated turkeys have had the consciousness bred out of them?
seriously? That is an astounding claim. As such it required evidence to back it up. Absent that evidence I can only conclude that you are making a claim merely to provide a convenient excuse for consuming domestic turkeys without guilt.
4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)wild turkeys have a level of consciousness that places them "not in question" (whatever that means)
No, the not in question bit refers to the fact that we aren't talking about wild turkeys. That was a deliberate attempt to change the conversation on your part.
their domesticated cousins have somehow dropped down the consciousness scale to the point where they are "slightly above a potato".
Selective breeding, how does it work? (for instance: are all dog breeds possessed by exactly the same level of intelligence?)
Have I represented your argument correctly?
BWahahahahahahaha!
No. Turkeys were never really aware. Wild ones are a bit smarter than domestic ones. That's all. But they're both still pretty dumb.
Like I said: you've never interacted with a live turkey. Otherwise you wouldn't by trying to claim such things.
seriously? That is an astounding claim. As such it required evidence to back it up. Absent that evidence I can only conclude that you are making a claim merely to provide a convenient excuse for consuming domestic turkeys without guilt.
Without guilt? Ha! Not everyone shares your fetish for eating plant matter.
By the way . . . where do your vegetables come from? A farm by any chance? One that used to be grassland or forest? What do you supposed happened to the poor animals that lived there when it was plowed under to provide you with "guilt free" spinach?
Self awareness: Self-awareness is the capacity for introspection and the ability to reconcile oneself as an individual separate from the environment and other individuals.
So far only humans, some dolphins and apes, and elephants have been shown to be self aware. A few animals are on the border and have conflicting results. Turkeys are nowhere near that.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)not concern ourselves with the pain and suffering we inflict on all the other animals that do not exhibit the level of consciousness categorized by self-awareness.
You continue to assert that there is some distinction between wild turkeys and domestic ones, continuing to claim that if one were around caged food-turkeys, one would have a different attitude. I've been around farm turkeys and understand why one would feel like that, but I've also been around chickens raised as pets, and there is a world of difference, but the difference is not in the animals themselves it is in our experience of them.
I agree that all of our food choices have consequences. We should be more aware of those consequences and strive to make ethical choices. It is not amazing to me at all that several people here hostile to vegetarianism post arguments about the horrors of plant consumption, but that is really an old and tired argument. If you are actually interested, the jainists laid out the basics of how one can think about making ethical choices, understanding that we will have to fail to cause no harm, but that we can, as conscious reflective self aware beings, make the best choices available to us. They did this circa 800 bce. Nothing much has changed other than more of us live in post scarcity societies where such choices come with minimal inconvenience.
biohazard9550
(12 posts)Hmmm..
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)polichick
(37,420 posts)...in a rather original way.
Confusious
(8,317 posts)We don't generally eat "helper animals"
Dogs, cats, horses, donkeys, oxen.
Everything else is fair game.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)Confusious
(8,317 posts)In Asia, it's common to eat dog, probably less so cats.
Horses, probably another matter altogether.
Western tastes, we don't eat them.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)So do other 'western' cultures.
Confusious
(8,317 posts)The grain to meat conversion of horse is worse then cattle.
I said, "generally speaking" a couple times to mean I was saying "there are places that they do eat that, but there are quite a few more that don't then there are that do."
Do you need me to make it simpler then that?
obamanut2012
(27,423 posts)Confusious
(8,317 posts)I don't see big hunks of oxen at the super market when I go there.
Nor do I see dog meat, horse meat or cat meat.
I had a girlfriend whose grandfather went out and killed squirrels and ate them. Doesn't mean because one person in the United states eats squirrels everyone does. Nor does it mean nobody does.
"generally speaking"
hobbit709
(41,694 posts)Confusious
(8,317 posts)Ecumenist
(6,086 posts)Confusious
(8,317 posts)I don't.
PavePusher
(15,374 posts)You see the irony, I hope...
Ecumenist
(6,086 posts)Last edited Wed Nov 21, 2012, 12:53 PM - Edit history (1)
So, unless you shop at "Crazy Mumbai Moe's, the place where your rupee go buys more". They revere the Ox, Cow, whatever you want to call it. Oh yes, my friend, we eat alot of oxen. ALOT!!
Confusious
(8,317 posts)Now it just seems like you're trying to be an ahole.
obamanut2012
(27,423 posts)And, not only is puppy stew part of a ceremony for some Indian tribes, people are always getting arrested for butchering dogs for food (not talking about Indians).
Many, many fancy restaurants serve oxtail, as well as many Southern aka soul food places. It's cheap and tasty if cooked correctly.
Confusious
(8,317 posts)Means everyone in America does.
Is that what you're trying to say?
Because obviously, after many posts, and explanations, you can't seem to grasp the idea of "generally speaking"
DBoon
(22,901 posts)that it was not common prior to then, but serious deprivation after the war lead to it becoming more common.
Accusing Chinese and Koreans of being "dog eaters" is something of an ethnic slur.
Didn't the Hawaiians raise "poi dogs" for food though?
jsmirman
(4,507 posts)I think PETA's ad here is clever and has a very valid point, but the idea that there is some vast cultural tradition of eating dog in Asia is TOTAL BULLSHIT.
It was done as a necessity, not as a cultural statement/tradition.
And those pushing the "it's a part of the culture" angle are either stupid or in the business and trying to stir up resentment of "outsiders" for their own ends - kind of like the shithead class in West Virginia does the same to oppress the fuck out of the people.
geardaddy
(25,274 posts)Dog was rare in most places outside of southern China. In the southern provinces, dog was prevalent, as was cat, snake, what have you.
But this was 25 years ago. I don't know how much it's changed.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Cat is on the menu in China. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat_meat#Consumption_of_cat_meat
Dog too--though it is becoming less popular these days. They tried to outlaw it and couldn't get consensus... http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/mychinastory/2012-02/02/content_14525279.htm
Horse in on the menu in Europe. I used to live right near a horsemeat store ... I never could get used to the smiling cartoon horse on the sign advertising the place!
demwing
(16,916 posts)DUers? Americans? Humans?
Confusious
(8,317 posts)I guess not. Humans.
"generally speaking" humans don't eat "Helper animals"
Westerners don't, generally speaking.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)uppityperson
(115,724 posts)4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)to many a dog is a pet (in the US certainly).
Ergo we won't eat dog.
To very few is a turkey a pet.
Ergo we will eat turkey.
I doubt most kids if they had a pet pig would eat that pig. Or chicken or goat or . . .
All PETA has proven is that people don't want to eat their pets. Not that people don't want to eat meat or feel bad about killing animals in general.
Which is both true and pointless.
obamanut2012
(27,423 posts)Including "fancy" ones. People also eat horses, and dogs. And guinea pigs, which are pets to many folks.
Confusious
(8,317 posts)Meaning: Quite a few more people don't then do.
obamanut2012
(27,423 posts)What do you think an ox is? It's a steer.
Turborama
(22,109 posts)Confusious
(8,317 posts)Grose.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)It's delicious but very hard to find here.
Turborama
(22,109 posts)I have been looking for Marmite recently and found this online shop. They've got a nice sounding Baxters one, too:
http://www.britstore.co.uk/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=oxtail&osCsid=u9nbv18nimtkaknq4j3notiri1&x=16&y=10
http://www.britsuperstore.com/cgi-bin/ss000001.pl?SS=oxtail&PR=-1&TB=A&SHOP=
BTW the strangest thing just happened. I typed a search into my blackberry and instead of searching it created a site out of the search terms and a site actually appeared. Check it out and let me know if a random site comes up for you, too: http://heinz.oxtail.soup.in.the.us/
dynasaw
(998 posts)Don't be so insular: there are other cultures with norms you don't know about: The French eat horse meat, some Asian cultures eat dogs and cats. Chicken is unappetizing in some cultures and dairy byproducts are regarded as disgusting by others.
Confusious
(8,317 posts)I am fully aware that other cultures do.
That's why I said "generally speaking" and Specified western cultures.
If you had bothered to read and hadn't rushed to get on your high horse, you would have known that.
MrSlayer
(22,143 posts)Dogs, horses, oxen and donkeys, yeah. But cats? I have five of them and the next helpful thing they do will be the first. They're cute but do no work at all.
Confusious
(8,317 posts)They used to get the rats that infested the food stores.
Since modern sanitation, they really don't have to do that anymore.
They're just resting on their laurels these days.
Hissyspit
(45,790 posts)I don't trust people who make my cats nervous.
They also DO work as alarm system, if you're talking utilitarian. They get really nervous and growl when someone is approaching the house.
They also provide comfort.
Egalitarian Thug
(12,448 posts)over the world. Pretty narrow view from someone that calls himself Confusious.
Confusious
(8,317 posts)I said "generally speaking"
Generally speaking: "there are places that they do eat that, but there are quite a few more that don't then there are that do."
J.H.F.C. I wish people would read, but they gotta rush to be the first on that Fing High Fing Horse.
Egalitarian Thug
(12,448 posts)Confusious
(8,317 posts)Last edited Thu Nov 22, 2012, 06:24 PM - Edit history (1)
So please, enlighten me about how more people around the world eat horse then don't, seeing as horse is a very poor converter of grain to meat.
Please tell me about all the places that eat dog, seeing as the Christian, Judaism, Muslim and Buddhist religions say that dog is a "repulsive" meat.
I really haven't looked into cat meat. Maybe you can prove me wrong there.
PavePusher
(15,374 posts)Guinea Pig is delicious.... and widely eaten in South America.
But tell a U.S. pet store that you're shopping for dinner and watch the hilarity ensue....
Renew Deal
(82,742 posts)obamanut2012
(27,423 posts)Major Nikon
(36,877 posts)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_emotion
Emphasis mine.
snooper2
(30,151 posts)First of all what breed would give you great hunks of breast meat? We would have to farm raise pugs or bulldogs or something and fatten them up. You get too big of a breed and there wouldn't be room in the store to sell them.
Then issue with the size of your oven to the size of your fryer. A whole new industry would have to be built around 100 quart fryers just to get all the meat in...
Not practical at all----
Major Nikon
(36,877 posts)snooper2
(30,151 posts)Just look at the numbers----
In 2011, more than 248 million turkeys were expected to be raised with an average liveweight per bird of 28 pounds with nearly 6 billion pounds of turkey processed. By contrast, in 1970, only 105 million birds were raised with an average liveweight of 17 pounds and 1.5 billion pounds processed. The turkeys produced in 2010 together weighed 7.11 billion pounds and were valued at $4.37 billion.
Read more: Turkey Trivia Infoplease.com http://www.infoplease.com/spot/tgturkeyfacts.html#ixzz2CsidUNg0
According to the U.S. Department of Agriculture, more than 45 million turkeys are cooked and eaten in the U.S. at Thanksgivingthat's one sixth of all turkeys sold in the U.S. each year. American per capita consumption of turkeys has soared from 8.3 pounds in 1975 to 18.5 pounds in 1997. Ten years later, the number dropped in 2007 to 13.8 pounds.
Read more: Turkey Trivia Infoplease.com http://www.infoplease.com/spot/tgturkeyfacts.html#ixzz2CsiVzd3G
Major Nikon
(36,877 posts)I agree the idea of dog ranchers doesn't seem like a good one.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts):lol:
Renew Deal
(82,742 posts)The size isn't the biggest problem.
Doremus
(7,263 posts)NYC Liberal
(20,324 posts)I eat meat and have nothing against that. I've never tried it (I don't even know where I'd find it around here) but I have no objection.
Union Scribe
(7,099 posts)littlemissmartypants
(23,746 posts)label needed here, even I can tell this turkey is a
genetically modified organism.
Lefta Dissenter
(6,646 posts)Azathoth
(4,677 posts)Both have taken worthwhile issues and thoroughly marginalized them through nutbaggery.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)DBoon
(22,901 posts)nt
Azathoth
(4,677 posts)Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)The NRA may be hated by many and discredited by others. But they are politically powerful.
I rank them with the constellation of LGBT organizations.
Azathoth
(4,677 posts)Counterintuitive, but apparently true
Jim Lane
(11,175 posts)I assume that PETA's "nutbaggery" means not confining themselves to somber, dignified arguments that Serious People could respect.
If PETA did that, animal issues would get even less attention and less action than they actually do.
customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)Jim Lane
(11,175 posts)Attention by itself is valuable. Beyond that, though, I'm happy to provide you with an account of some of PETA's accomplishments. This is from the Wikipedia article at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_for_the_Ethical_Treatment_of_Animals and the list of authors can be found at http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=People_for_the_Ethical_Treatment_of_Animals&action=history (the article history page). I license this post under the CC-by-SA license. (Crediting the source and the authors and licensing the content means this use of Wikipedia content is permitted without regard to paragraph limitations.)
. . . .
McDonald's and Wendy's introduced vegetarian options after PETA targeted them; Petco stopped selling some exotic pets; and Polo Ralph Lauren said it would no longer use fur. Avon, Estee Lauder, Benetton, and Tonka Toy Co. all stopped testing products on animals, the Pentagon stopped shooting pigs and goats in wounds tests, and a slaughterhouse in Texas was closed down.
. . . .
PETA has also objected to the practice of mulesing (removing strips of wool-bearing skin from around the buttocks of a sheep). In October 2004, PETA launched a boycott against the Australian wool industry, leading some clothing retailers to ban products using Australian wool from their stores. In response, the Australian wool industry sued PETA, claiming among other things that mulesing prevents flystrike, a very painful disease that can affect sheep. A settlement was reached, and PETA agreed to stop the boycott, while the wool industry agreed to seek alternatives to mulesing.
. . . .
PETA has promoted legal initiatives to enforce existing euthanasia laws. In 1990, Georgia's "Humane Euthanasia Act" became one of the first laws in the nation to mandate intravenous injection of sodium pentobarbital as the prescribed method for euthanizing cats and dogs in Georgia animal shelters. Prior to that time, gas chambers and other means were commonly employed. Georgia Agriculture Commissioner Tommy Irvin was tasked with licensing the shelters and enforcing the new law, through the Department's Animal Protection Division. However, Commissioner Irvin failed to abide by the terms of the law, and instead continued to license gas chambers. PETA contacted the author of the original legislation, and in March 2007, the Georgia Department of Agriculture and Commissioner Irvin were sued by former State Representative Chesley V. Morton. The Fulton County Superior Court ruled in favor of the plaintiffs, validating the terms of the Humane Euthanasia Act, with an injunction prohibiting the Department from issuing licenses to shelters using gas chambers in violation of the Act.
. . . .
Notable cases (of undercover work) include the 26-minute film PETA produced in 1984, Unnecessary Fuss, based on 60 hours of researchers' footage obtained by the ALF during a raid on the University of Pennsylvania's head injury clinic. The footage showed researchers laughing at baboons as they inflicted brain damage on them with a hydraulic device intended to simulate whiplash. Laboratory animal veterinarian Larry Carbone writes that the researchers openly discussed how one baboon was awake before the head injury, despite protocols being in place for anesthesia. The ensuing publicity led to the suspension of funds from the university, the firing of its chief veterinarian, the closure of the lab, and a period of probation for the university.
. . . .
In 1990, Bobby Berosini, a Las Vegas entertainer, lost his wildlife license, as well as (on appeal) a later lawsuit against PETA, after the group broadcast an undercover film of him slapping and punching orangutans in 1989.
. . . .
In 1999, a North Carolina grand jury handed down indictments against pig-farm workers on Belcross Farm in Camden County, the first indictments for animal cruelty on a factory farm in the United States, after a three-month PETA investigation produced film of the workers beating the animals. In 2004, PETA published the results of an eight-month undercover investigation in a West Virginia Pilgrim's Pride slaughterhouse that supplies chickens to KFC. The New York Times reported the investigation as showing workers stomping on live chickens, throwing dozens against a wall, tearing the head off a chicken to write graffiti, strangling one with a latex glove, and squeezing birds until they exploded. Yum Brands, owner of KFC, called the video appalling, and threatened to stop purchasing from Pilgrim's Pride if no changes were made; Pilgrim's Pride fired 11 employees, and introduced an anti-cruelty pledge for workers to sign.
In 2004 and 2005, PETA shot footage inside Covance, an animal-testing company in the United States and Europe, that appeared to show monkeys being mistreated in the company's facility in Vienna, Virginia. According to The Washington Post, PETA said an employee of the group filmed primates there being choked, hit, and denied medical attention when badly injured. After PETA sent the video and a 253-page complaint to the United States Department of Agriculture, Covance was fined $8,720 for 16 citations, three of which involved lab monkeys; the other citations involved administrative issues and equipment. The company said none of the issues were pervasive or endemic, and that they had taken corrective action. In 2005 Covance initiated a lawsuit charging PETA with fraud, violation of employee contract, and conspiracy to harm the company's business, but did not proceed with it.[90]
PETA also goes undercover into circuses. In 2006, they filmed trainers at Carson & Barnes Circusincluding Tim Frisco, the animal-care directorstriking elephants while shouting at them; The Washington Post writes that the video shows Frisco shouting "Make 'em scream!". A company spokesman dismissed PETA's concerns as "Utopian philosophical ideology", but said the circus would no longer use electric prods.
I've deleted the footnotes. If you go to the Wikipedia article you can find backup references for these statements.
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)the etymological root of the macaca insult that seems to have ended George Allen's political career.
redgreenandblue
(2,096 posts)Sadiedog
(353 posts)obamanut2012
(27,423 posts)Egalitarian Thug
(12,448 posts)there are an awful lot of narrow-minded and very sensitive conservatives here.
4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)Not an equivalent comparison.
It should be a dog raised for food with no emotional attachment. And even then its merely addressing cultural values rather than universal morality.
/you wouldn't chop down a thousand year old redwood, why would you live in a house made of wood?
tkmorris
(11,138 posts)And I'm fairly certain my IQ is not an obstacle here.
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)Zorra
(27,670 posts)Comrade_McKenzie
(2,526 posts)I'm going to devour a big hunk of turkey breast covered in gravy.
And feed my cat a special can of wet food made with another kind of ground up animal.
Ah, it's nice to be at the top of the food chain.
glacierbay
(2,477 posts)Went out a few weeks ago and shot a 23-26 lb. turkey, wife is going to cook it tomorrow and we're going to enjoy it. Nothing like a hot turkeiy leg, mashed potatos, yams, dressing and hot rolls w/butter.
Response to Archae (Original post)
darkangel218 This message was self-deleted by its author.
Fla_Democrat
(2,567 posts)Response to Fla_Democrat (Reply #247)
darkangel218 This message was self-deleted by its author.
Eyes of the World
(93 posts)I would unrec this thread if I could...
demwing
(16,916 posts)better than unrec
quaker bill
(8,228 posts)All the words are spelled correctly.
my answer: Because I know I enjoy a properly roasted turkey. One does not want to mess around with a holiday dinner, go with what you know.
(what I will not do is feed my dog some turkey, it tends to give her the runs, which detracts from the whole holiday atmosphere)
RandiFan1290
(6,331 posts)They get tons of panties wadded up and have their ads re posted for free all over the internet.
I lol at their ability to troll the moranic...
Egalitarian Thug
(12,448 posts)Logical
(22,457 posts)respects them. Most people laugh about them. So I think it might be backfiring.
RomneyLies
(3,333 posts)They can to keep me from eating meat.
They can take my pork chop when they pry it from my cold dead hand.
RandiFan1290
(6,331 posts)RomneyLies
(3,333 posts)They are whacked out fringe and deserve nothing but scorn
RandiFan1290
(6,331 posts)Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)relationships are with the other animals on this planet. I'd say this ad was quite effective, it has even managed to reach you and force you to think about your relationship to animals.
Confusious
(8,317 posts)They made me realize everything is food, in one way or another.
jsmirman
(4,507 posts)I wish DU could cut the "being stupid for being stupid's sake" stuff.
glacierbay
(2,477 posts)with animals, I hunt and eat deer, rabbit, game birds and I have no qualms about it, I also have 2 dogs, 3 cats, birds and fish as pets.
This peta ad is just their way getting publicity and I could care less about it.
RomneyLies
(3,333 posts)Turkey I can find.
mmmmm mmmmmm mm
Yummy.
For Black Friday I'll have a big juicy bloody very rare steak, then ham on Saturday.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)That re-thinking brought forward into your consciousness that which is generally not present. For the most part you and most people do not think at all about what they eat and the ethics of what they eat. Now you have had to think about it, and you are proudly displaying your disdain for the ethics of your food choices.
RomneyLies
(3,333 posts)It made me hungry for some juicy fresh meat.
Yum yum.
Egalitarian Thug
(12,448 posts)I think it is safe to assume that that doesn't apply in this case.
Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)I'm going to teach PETA a lesson by harming my body. Take that PETA!
JoeyT
(6,785 posts)the Limbaugh fans that cut down trees and run all their lights at once to "protest" environmentalists?
That's good, everyone should have a hobby.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)"hey are whacked out fringe and deserve nothing but scorn..."
I imagine the corollary is true, also-- the individual who mocks vegans by telling everyone how delicious he find his meat, and his evening plans for his meat deserves nothing but scorn... unless of course we're simply holding others to a higher standard than we hold ourselves.
"Their goal is to stop all meat production..."
I have no doubt you may even believe that to be the case.
demwing
(16,916 posts)that's disgusting
RomneyLies
(3,333 posts)Damned Android autocorrect.
demwing
(16,916 posts)BTW, your sig line? +100%
Democracyinkind
(4,015 posts)Call me when PETA puts a gun to your head and I might take your post seriously.
RomneyLies
(3,333 posts)In that respect, they are exactly like the religious right.
william cail
(32 posts)This is why I donate to no kill shelters and to the ASPCA. The ASPCA does more good than PeTA ever will. The ASPCA does have some police powers to arrest.
RomneyLies
(3,333 posts)bowens43
(16,064 posts)if you're going to eat meat and I do, why the discrimination. Why the hypocritical belief that eating turkey is ok but eating dog isn't?
demwing
(16,916 posts)they have eyebrows.
How can you eat something that originated the term "puppy dog eyes" ???
Turkeys are nasty beasts. Don't ugly things deserve to be killed and eaten?
RomneyLies
(3,333 posts)I'd eat whatever meat I could find. Species be damned.
quinnox
(20,600 posts)Never was a big fan of turkey. Give me ham instead any day. But dog? No thank you, and its not because I'm a dog lover either. I can't stand most dogs. I sure as hell wouldn't want to eat the disgusting things.
RandiFan1290
(6,331 posts)Once you get hungry enough you will eat
quinnox
(20,600 posts)I'd have them down on the bottom of the list of possibilities near rats and shit like that.
hobbit709
(41,694 posts)quinnox
(20,600 posts)you dog lovers seem to have a hard time understanding that there are those in the world who do not like dogs. I'm a cat person, and dogs pretty much disgust me.
hobbit709
(41,694 posts)None of the people I know that have cats say they hate dogs and call them filthy, etc. as you do.
quinnox
(20,600 posts)including being attacked, hence why I speak with some heat about this, so let's leave it at that.
hobbit709
(41,694 posts)The worst was the cat bite that got majorly infected.
quinnox
(20,600 posts)where they are acting crazy aggressive, try that, then compare it to a cat bite.
hobbit709
(41,694 posts)I've also been bitten by a rattlesnake, charged by a bull-which is way bigger than any dog, kicked by a horse, and chomped on by various critters.
If I started freaking out over everything that jumped me one way or another I'd probably need major therapy.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)hobbit709
(41,694 posts)My mother told me stories of the winter of 44-45 in Vienna. The basic food ration was 2 kilos of potatoes per person per week. You were lucky if you got half that. Along with getting bombed 24/7.
There was no coal for heating since all coal went to the war effort, so civilians had to find whatever they could to burn during the coldest winter in 50 years. She told me about crawling through bombed out buildings getting scrap lumber to burn, meanwhile hoping the rest of the building didn't collapse on you.
If there was meat in the beans, it was rat. As a kid I saw her nail a rat at 10 feet with a wooden soled sandal-she obviously had practice.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)Absent scarcity and starvation we can make ethical choices about what we eat.
PavePusher
(15,374 posts)If it's O.K. to eat it in severe conditions, why is it not O.K. to eat it during mild conditions?
oberliner
(58,724 posts)What is wrong with asking people to at least consider the point being made?
hobbit709
(41,694 posts)Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)That's what PETA is about. Animal rights.
It's good for someone to ask a question, get you thinking.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)I'm also not allergic to stuffing, unless it has almonds in it.
RomneyLies
(3,333 posts)glacierbay
(2,477 posts)PavePusher
(15,374 posts)Now I need a sandwich...
Eyes of the World
(93 posts)Somewhere deep inside you know cultivating mistreated animals to eat them is wrong. Maybe PETA is touching your conscience in some way and you don't want to be reminded about how bad you really feel inside.
I feel as bad for you as for the innocent baby animals that you eat without regard to their lives that, however brief, contain more suffering than you will know in all your years.
Eat to Live, Don't Live to Eat
quinnox
(20,600 posts)"I feel as bad for you as for the innocent baby animals that you eat without regard to their lives that, however brief, contain more suffering than you will know in all your years."
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)quinnox
(20,600 posts)Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)obamanut2012
(27,423 posts)How anyone can eat meat -- or eggs -- that come from such facilities is beyond me. Want a turkey? Raise one and kill it, or get it from somewhere where you know they are raised like living, feeling creatures, and not tortured and abused their whole lives. Because it is a FACT that that is how factory farming treats the livestock.
quinnox
(20,600 posts)aandegoons
(473 posts)I eat meat and I agree with the poster. PETA has done much more good for animals even if I don't agree with everything they do or even agree with their most basic of premises.
I salute them for that.
quinnox
(20,600 posts)Well, I think PETA are batshit crazy in their tactics an extreme ideology. HUMANS AND ANIMALS ARE NOT THE FUCKING SAME.
aandegoons
(473 posts)Like I said I do not agree with the most basic of their ideals but that is no reason not to respect them for those things they accomplish.
quinnox
(20,600 posts)about PETA, I find that very annoying.
obamanut2012
(27,423 posts)And, there are also laws stating such, although they need to be much better.
If a human has a soul, then a turkey or a pig or a steer certainly does.
It is hubris to think anything else.
alp227
(32,419 posts)I wonder when DU TOS will require posting from a secular, rationalist POV?
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)you have a nice day now.
rDigital
(2,239 posts)obamanut2012
(27,423 posts)I'm a vegetarian now, but ate only organic meat the last couple years I still ate meat, because of how livestock are treated. I can't quite do the vegan thing, although I wish I could, but I do know where all my dairy products are sourced. It's not perfect, but I try.
My parents are meat eaters, and get all their meat now from local sources. It's not all organic, but the animals are at least humanely raised and killed. Again, not perfect, and neither is PETA, but their undercover videos have really helped change attitudes and laws.
jsmirman
(4,507 posts)except, totally not.
Do better than this.
obamanut2012
(27,423 posts)And a "fanatic."
How do you feel about puppy mills? They are generally MORE "humane" than factory farming of livestock, although the poor animals there suffer for a longer time.
jsmirman
(4,507 posts)quinnox
(20,600 posts)You stood up and were counted!
Beaverhausen
(24,548 posts)Are you even reading the posts? Are you OK with the way most animals that are eaten by humans are treated for their short, horrid lives? Not to mention the damage to the environment. Maybe you could try to be a little more open-minded, learn something and show some respect to the opinion of others here.
jsmirman
(4,507 posts)I don't agree with everything PETA does - I *do* think a lot of what they do is important.
Arkana
(24,347 posts)4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)is proof that others agree with them but aren't prepared to admit it yet.
'Believe in my God or burn!'
You're annoying, go away.
'Aha, why would you reject my message unless you knew it to be true!'
Jasana
(490 posts)Peta get it through its thick head that not all of us omnivores can survive as vegans? Tried it once... lost too much weight. I eat white meat (chicken and turkey) and very little red meat. Grew up on a fishing boat so fish is no go. Can't get rid the smell in my head. Ugh.
Their constant calls to go Vegan only turn me off. Now... if they could tell more responsible ways to eat white meat, I might take a listen... if they didn't do it in a sexist way. That pisses me off even more.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)get the red out
(13,515 posts)Something close to 90% of pets that enter their shelters weren't euthanized, and if they didn't believe that my dog was better off DEAD than being loved and spoiled by my husband and I because they believe that pets should not exist. http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2012/03/petas-terrible-horrible-no-good-very-bad-history-of-killing-animals/254130/
I used to have respect for PETA, even though I disagreed with them on some items, but now no more.
If it were necessary for all of humanity to go Vegan to keep dogs, horses, and cats from EVER being tortured, eaten, or made to live in some miserable way, I'd go for it in a heartbeat if that's what it took, and I love my burgers. That seems to be what it would take for a lot of people to not see a false equivalency with our companion animals and a turkey, and if that's the case, so be it, pass the tofurky laws tomorrow and I'll comply.
yewberry
(6,530 posts)PETA is not and never has been an animal adoption agency. They do not operate animal shelters for adoption.
The reason that 90% of pets that end up with PETA are euthanized is because they are not an adoption agency. What they do is help some local groups when those local agencies can't afford humane euthanizations. The high euthanization rate is simply due to to the fact that PETA does not run adoption centers; they offer humane euthanization services to local agencies who might otherwise shoot or drown unwanted animals.
alp227
(32,419 posts)Can't PETA sponsor nature sanctuaries instead of being thought police to justify euthanasia? If peta is so concerned about animals' feelings why don't they defend prey from predators?
Iggo
(48,068 posts)Democracyinkind
(4,015 posts)is not totally apt?
BTW, I am a meat eater - the only reasons that I have to not eat dogs, so I presume, are culturally constructed and have more to do with peer pressure and societal norming than with genuine, fact-based reasons.
To be hones, you OP baffles me.
Iggo
(48,068 posts)...these kinds of posts tend to be based more on a hatred of PETA than a love of puppy dogs.
obamanut2012
(27,423 posts)cloudbase
(5,653 posts)Eat sea kittens.
OhZone
(3,216 posts)People Eating Tasty Animals!
OHYEAH!
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)Certainly, big ag does. But even "enviornmentally sensitive" ag does its share, eliminating whole eco-systems, and distortiing the number of species toward those animals which love fields of dense, easily had grains, fruits and veggies. That's the problem with PeTA's conscious-pricking, holier-than-thou aporoach: They falsely cleanse the souls of vegetarians.
We can only reduce the damage. I hunt deer, dove, squirrel, and yes, turkey. This reduces my reliance on meat-under-cellophane.
Tastes in meat? Most of that is culturally-determined around the emotion of sentiment (something PeTA is very reliant on).
DBoon
(22,901 posts)I don't completely agree with their message but I admire the creativity in their campaigns.
I will still enjoy my turkey dinner, and my dog will get some of the scraps. She has no qualms about consuming animal flesh and prefers to do so in the company of her humans.
DinahMoeHum
(22,297 posts)that their new slogan should be:
"Eat P***y, Not Meat"
glacierbay
(2,477 posts)That'll pretty much get you banned.
Sadiedog
(353 posts)PavePusher
(15,374 posts)P***y is a renewable resource, low-calorie (probably burns more in the eating than you gain), and can be re-eaten again and again! In fact, if you do it right, it demands a return engagement....
The perfect food!
Dash87
(3,220 posts)But they're also very tasty.
Arkana
(24,347 posts)Bravo, PETA. You've hit the retarded nail on its head again.
obamanut2012
(27,423 posts)If you eat meat, you eat meat. If a human has a soul, and a dog does, then a turkey certainly does.
The French are a Western culture and society, and they are huge horse meat eaters. I think that's appalling. They think that attitude is ridiculous. Horses are helper animals, companion animals, pets.
Meat is meat.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)Plants are alive and feel pain. They react very strongly when injured.
We're not autotrophs. Something has to die for us to live. How is killing spinach to eat it more noble than killing a turkey to eat it?
CrispyQ
(37,616 posts)4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)Egalitarian Thug
(12,448 posts)it is all cultural and personal preference. Once you get that through the filter, I think it comes down to intent and responsibility.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)small animal communities to make way for a carrot farm? Why is it 'alright' for millions of rodents to not only die, but see their entire environment eradicated for all time just to grow some food? Is it becasue the gophers are not really animals, so it is cool to kill them en mass and toss the corpses aside?
I'm always amused by those who think veg diets are 'cruelty free'. They have never seen a natural pasture become an agri field, and they certainly have never been farmworkers.
Rex
(65,616 posts)so what does PETA have to say about that?
PETA = Pretenders Eating Turkey Afterwork.
HERVEPA
(6,107 posts)You must be a riot at parties.
RC
(25,592 posts)darkangel218
(13,985 posts)Which means we eat both veggies AND meat! What they want us to do is NOT natural to the human body. If someone wants to go vegan, that'd their personal choice, but don't try to guilt others into being like you!
Screw that!
HERVEPA
(6,107 posts)Killing other beings is unnatural.
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)Animals kill each other for food all the time. We kill them, and in some instances they kill us for a tasty launch. I'm sorry the reality of things bothers you so much.
Rex
(65,616 posts)that might now work out so well.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)Apes are mostly vegetarians. They of course do not eat tofu in the wild, as they do not have the social skills for manufacturing food products.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)They're alive. They react very strongly to the injuries you cause when you rip their flesh apart in order to consume them. As an added bonus, uncooked plants are still alive when you shred them with your teeth. At least meat is no longer suffering when you consume it.
We aren't autotrophs. Something has to die so that we can live.
Rex
(65,616 posts)You must be from outer space.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)that we need to evolve beyond. The point is that as conscious beings in a post scarcity economy we can make ethical choices that would, if widely adopted, reduce the pain and suffering and improve the life experience of many other more or less conscious beings on this planet, with only minimal inconvenience to ourselves. Why wouldn't an ethical mindful human do that?
jeff47
(26,549 posts)They're alive. They react very strongly to pain.
Why is it OK to shred a living being with your teeth, but not OK to eat the flesh of a now-dead animal?
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)Plants experience life, but I do not think that they do so consciously. There are vegetarians, such as jainists, who agree that even the suffering of plants should be considered and minimized. I have to eat. But the harm I cause by eating other life should be minimized. I cause more harm by eating cow than by eating beans.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)They were doing some studies of abuse of plants. They had one person be mean to the plants - yell at it, rip parts off, general abuse. Another person was nice to the plants - spoke reassuringly, provided water and fertilizer and so on.
What they found is after a little while, the plant would start reacting when the person approached the plant - the "evil" person triggered defensive reactions even when they didn't do anything. Somehow (and we have no idea how) the plant knew the "evil" person was there.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)Ive built robots that experience their environment and react to it without a shred (pun intended) of consciousness. Plants do have sensory capacity to sense and react to light, to chemicals etc.
Consciousness is more than experience and reaction to sensory input. You know that, as a conscious being.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)And that there's a lot more going on in plants than we thought.
4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)a properly managed bean field is home to . . . beans.
Actually in the process of grinding up a field for use you kill untold numbers of mice/rats (intelligent) as well as lesser animals. And of course by removing those animals you starve the animals that would feed on them (predatory cats, wolves, coyotes, foxes, birds of prey, etc) as well as wild animals that could have lived in that area (deer, rabbits, and the like).
All those animals are removed/killed by your bean fields. You choose not to see it though.
Drale
(7,932 posts)Turkey's are mean and very very tasty. Second I'd rather eat a member of PETA than eat me dog. Put them in a smoker for about 24 hours use the right rub and sauce I bet they wouldn't be half bad.
PavePusher
(15,374 posts)Just cook it well and don't eat the brain...
Side note: 'Stranger in a Strange Land', anyone?
byronius
(7,527 posts)Free Republic is where all the ethically-challenged go, people who can't muster up empathy for other people --
Check yourself before you wreck yourself. What a dickish post.
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)LongHairedCountryBoy
(6 posts)Of course I'm not going to eat MY dog,but in the right circumstances YOUR dog might start looking pretty tasty....
Iggo
(48,068 posts)LongHairedCountryBoy
(6 posts)and some days more than others too...
Autumn
(45,802 posts)LongHairedCountryBoy
(6 posts)Long time lurker,but even after joining I'll never be a prolific poster.More of a listener than a talker
Autumn
(45,802 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Bradical79
(4,490 posts)1. People in general (at least here in the U.S.) perceive dogs as much smarter and more emotional than turkeys. When they think of a dog, they see an animal with more human like feelings. Of course that's not true of everyone, as we have dog fighting and things like that. In general though, dogs are easier to anthropomorphize.
Meanwhile, people think of turkeys as some of the dumbest creatures in the world and little more than a walking food source. Ever heard the myth of turkeys drowning in rainstorms? Though to be fair, if we released the turkeys we have bred for food, they probably would just end up as lunch for another critter.
2. Turkeys are delicious and better sources of meat. If dogs tasted like turkeys and provided as much meat, we probably would have some sort of dog raised exclusively as a food source.
Anyway, I see what PETA is trying here, but it really is a terrible ad, in my opinion, that will probably do nothing to help their cause. If anything, comparing dogs to turkeys around thanksgiving with a shallow ad will just re-enforce whatever negative impression people have of them.
PavePusher
(15,374 posts)2. Many domesticated dogs are highly stupid, have a lot of meat on them and would tase delicious with garlic and sage.
It's more about ingrained cultural taboos.
Tom Ripley
(4,945 posts)booley
(3,855 posts)Societies do make rather arbitrary decisions about which animals are ok to eat and which are not.
Nor did we make these decisions necessarily because of facts. We didn't give dogs and turkeys IQ tests before we decided which we would eat. It's cultural. We then used facts afterwards to justify it.
PETA is using this fact to support it's claim that eating meat in general is a moral wrong.
You may not agree with their point and no one said there couldn't be counter arguments BUT the reasoning they are using is sound.
Seriously sometimes it seems people read the word PETA" and their brains jump out a window. You can see their point and still disagree with them.
obamanut2012
(27,423 posts)I am vegetarian, yet disagree with PETA on quite a few things, but their campaigns and undercover folks HAVE changed attitudes, and HAVE helped laws get changed that better animals' lives.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)Why must animals be protected, but plants can be happily destroyed?
Plants feel pain. They react very strongly to it. And if you're eating a plant that hasn't been cooked, it's alive when you shred it with your teeth.
The food of vegetarians suffers just like the food of omnivores suffers.
booley
(3,855 posts)My point was that much of what we consider acceptable to eat is cultural. We only figured out that plants have a stress response a little while ago and it's still up in the air if this even counts as pain much less if farming causes some kind of severe pain to plants. I mean from an evolutionary pov, why would plants even develop a sense of pain? Very few plants can move away from something regardless of how painful it is.
So can plants feel pain as we know it? We don't know and the concept is still too esoteric to really impact our cultural decisions.
We may indeed decide one day that eating plants is cruel and we may even find an alternative.
But today we don't and more importantly to my point, we don't separate plant species into acceptable or unacceptable for consumption based on some emotional judgment about a plant's worthiness or alleged emotional life.
Pigs are smarter then dogs and cats. Octopi are right up there. But for various cultural reasons we decided that eating dogs and cats was morally wrong and not just a matter of taste. And we didn't decide that for pigs or octopi.
We may not eat roses generally. But we also wouldn't have the freak out if someone ate roses the way we would if someone ate a puppy in our culture.
FarCenter
(19,429 posts)Harry Harper, who was just eight days old, was attacked by the Jack Russell terrier yesterday morning at his grandparents' semi-detached home in Ketley, Telford.
Despite frantic efforts by paramedics, he later died from his injuries in The Princess Royal Hospital in Telford.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/9693200/Harry-Harper-family-devastated-at-baby-boys-pet-dog-attack-death.html
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)PavePusher
(15,374 posts)She needs to cook and eat that thing.
DearAbby
(12,461 posts)uppityperson
(115,724 posts)"MY" dog does not equal "A" turkey. "my" dog and "my" turkey are more comparable.
dawg
(10,696 posts)Tasty, tasty Jack Russell ....
?w=314&h=360
superpatriotman
(6,449 posts)nt
jeff47
(26,549 posts)Plants feel pain. Being a vegetarian is not more compassionate.
RedCappedBandit
(5,514 posts)Many have also evolved specifically to be eaten to spread their seed.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)And while they don't have a central nervous system, they do have nerve-like systems and have large, plant-wide reactions to things like picking a leaf.
And while plants expect fruit to be eaten, most vegetables are the plant itself - that spinach plant wasn't terribly interested in you eating it's leaves.
RedCappedBandit
(5,514 posts)jeff47
(26,549 posts)You cut your finger. Nerve impulses alert your brain to the injury so that you'll move your finger away from the cause of the injury. A host of chemicals start reacting at the site of the injury to project the wound. A bunch of hormones trigger additional chemical changes. Your immune system gets put "on alert" in the area.
In a plant, all the same stuff happens, except the brain moving the limb away.
The fact that you can't relate to a plant's existence doesn't mean the plant doesn't feel pain.
bunnies
(15,859 posts)every plant on earth would be in a constant state of pain. Do you seriously believe that?
4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)that were once forests and grasslands right?
What happened to the pain feeling animals that lived there?
MrScorpio
(73,693 posts)But this country still needs to do a way better job of commercial food production than what we're doing right now.
It's a much bigger issue. The chemicalized and highly processed forms of production are killing us. I wouldn't be surprised if the epidemic levels of cancer, obesity and diabetes that we have in America are linked to our food production methods.
PETA isn't doing anyone any favors by pleading with everyone to "go vegan", especially if that subjects people to more of the poisons that are produced by the Monsanto Corporation.
madrchsod
(58,162 posts)oh well........
Rstrstx
(1,511 posts):-P
RedCappedBandit
(5,514 posts)You don't have to agree, but this doesn't make them stupid. (I am not a vegan, but see where they're coming from).
DefenseLawyer
(11,101 posts)bunnies
(15,859 posts)Do you have an answer?
Cleita
(75,480 posts)I know ours do.
BVictor1
(229 posts)Call it population control.
Guy Whitey Corngood
(26,730 posts)Renew Deal
(82,742 posts)Berserker
(3,419 posts)goes vegan I will.
LeftInTX
(29,062 posts)Would get a few people thinking about the quality of the poultry they're consuming.
yewberry
(6,530 posts)What do you think about the Vegetarian/Vegan/Animal Rights forum here on DU?
Should we be jettisoned, since we're as stupid as 'all of Free Republic?'
If we're all so incredibly so fucking stupid and unwelcome, why not go ahead and ask Elad to tombstone all of us? Please, go for it.
After all, disagreeing with you should be worth a tombstone, right?
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)However, when they come to my door and tell me *I* need to believe in it, that's when they piss me off.
It's the proselytizing, that's the problem.
yewberry
(6,530 posts)In this case, however, as is so often the case on DU, this is not a situation of proselytizing. The OP found an image he disagreed with and brought it to DU for ridicule. Who is proselytizing here?
And gosh, wonder of wonders, the DU chorus of 'mmm, bacon,' 'screw those peta assholes,' and 'veg*ns are sanctimonious extremists' shows up.
I'm a grownup, and I've never had anyone come to my door and try to tell me what to eat (other than door-to-door meat sellers, that is. Boy do we rise their eyebrows.) The world that you and I live in is a meat-eating world though, so please be aware that all of y'all are the default. Us? We're the hippies, the effeminate, the extremists, the low-IQ same-as-freepers even if we've NEVER EVER expressed our opinions in public. Apparently, this should never piss me off.
I agree with the image in the OP. I see no difference between eating a turkey and eating a dog. So sorry. But like most veg*ns, I know enough to shut the fuck up about my opinions, so I don't mention them. You meat-eaters are the majority, like Christians in this country, so you all can feel free to marginalize us. Yes, proselytizing, particularly among new veg*ns, is a problem, but it ain't nothing compared to the response.
Meat-eaters are like right-wing Christians fighting against the imaginary war on Christmas. You are the poor, persecuted majority.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)I do, actually. Fish and Poultry, no red meat or pork. Although I had a good chunk of my adult life when I didn't eat any. And my philosophical positionings on the whole thing; including my opinions about PETA as an organization, were the same then as they are now.
So I would say "you meat eaters" is a bit premature, in this case.
I would add, though, that I object to anyone giving anyone else shit over what they choose to eat, that applies to meat eaters giving vegans crap same as the other direction.
And for some odd reason, there's been a welcome dearth of PETA threads (Thanksgiving, as always, is to be expected as an exception) on DU3. Even connoisseurs of massive flamefests such as myself found those things tiresome after a while.
yewberry
(6,530 posts)And I don't think it's at all premature to refer to you as a meat eater, as you do indeed eat meat.
Agree that the lack of peta threads has been entirely welcome!
mimosa_bunny
(2 posts)Why do meat eaters get SO upset with vegans & vegetarians?
Leave me the fuck alone. I don't preach to you, kindly return the favor.
"You people" are rude and condescending. I choose not to eat meat and could give zero shits if you would rather take lipitor than modify your diet.
If you choose not to believe the facts regarding the inefficiency of feeding grain to animals and worldwide food insecurity then YOU must be a Freeper. Your health/your planet/your choice. I guess?
I have way too much class to post pictures of what happened to your turkey before it got in your belly.
treestar
(82,383 posts)Dogs can be domesticated and dogs have proven themselves to be man's best friend. Name someone who kept a turkey as a pet.
It's also a cultural thing, as some cultures do eat dog.
Egalitarian Thug
(12,448 posts)Hissyspit
(45,790 posts)She was wonderful and loving. Rode on my shoulder with me all the time.
I'm not sure what you mean by "can be domesticated?"
treestar
(82,383 posts)So you don't eat chicken?
Hissyspit
(45,790 posts)PavePusher
(15,374 posts)He was originally obtained to be a meal... but got adopted by my then 4-year-old neice. Five years later, Herkimer still rules their urban farm, keeping the geese, ducks and chickens firmly under control.
Other poultry has not been as fortunate...
liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)like abuse of animals that we eat. Which animal is culturally acceptable to eat is irrelevent.
Deep13
(39,156 posts)Really, what about canine makes it intrinsically inedible? Most of us eat hogs, and they taste like people. How much worse can dog be?
Hissyspit
(45,790 posts)It's the killing.
Your purpose with this post is to disprove the OP?
Deep13
(39,156 posts)Also, which animals are food animals, which are work animals, and which are pets are a social construction based on cultural norms.
joeybee12
(56,177 posts)brain-dead self-promoters.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Libertas1776
(2,888 posts)this thread is giving me a hankering for a turkey hot dog!
Also, am I the only one that thinks the freakish turkey/canine hybrid up there looks kinda cute?
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)Your dim post suggests a positive correlation between vegetarianism and IQ.
LiberalElite
(14,691 posts)what animals we eat and don't eat is culturally determined. Some cultures think termites and grubs are good eatin'!
I haven't eaten any animals for 25 years and below is a link containing reasons to re-think the turkey dinner. I don't agree with everything Peta says but going vegan isn't the stupidest thing I've ever heard by far and that doesn't make me a freeper. It's disheartening to me that otherwise "progressive" people nevertheless can harbor outdated notions in other respects.
And one more thing - you know how your dog has the capacity to feel pain and distress? Well, the turkey has the same capacity. Hard luck for the animal destined for the dinner table. Convenient, huh?
http://www.care2.com/causes/mr-president-pardon-the-turkey-not-industrial-agriculture.html
Logical
(22,457 posts)eat meat. WTF!
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)Smart, Rational, or Logical, rarely are.
Logical
(22,457 posts)Skip Intro
(19,768 posts)They continue to draw attention to animal welfare, and they get kudos from me for that.
Oh yeah, and they've got a long, long list of success stories where they've been responsible for, often entirely responsible for, ending practices that needlessly harm and/or kill animals. They get kudos from me for that too.
Why such things would bother people to such a degree as evidenced in this thread is beyond me, but no matter, PETA Rocks!
standingtall
(2,861 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)RB TexLa
(17,003 posts)it's a valid presentation of that argument.
Jamaal510
(10,893 posts)Sorry, Team Plasma--I mean PETA. I can't see myself living off of only salads for the rest of my life.
ailsagirl
(23,388 posts)And, no, I did not have turkey today.
4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)flvegan
(64,519 posts)Especially when the OP states that this line of thought, which I share, makes one as stupid as a Freeper.
Thanks!
Accusations of ignorance, oh the sweet irony! LOL
Bad_Ronald
(265 posts)No matter where you stand on Chavez, they're always good for a laugh once all the usual people weigh in.
frogmarch
(12,214 posts)are extremely defensive about their collective RIGHT to eat meat. Some become aggressive, even physically abusive, when they find themselves in the company of vegetarians and/or vegans, even though its seldom that any of us VVs say a word either way when we're with these people about everyones right to choose to, or to not, eat animal flesh. To my carnivorous in-laws, people who dont eat meat are The Enemy and must be Dealt With. I also see some of that attitude displayed here in this thread.