Latest Obama rumor going around here.

[leftyladyfrommo]

I have heard this twice now. Obama is going to take our guns away. And to do this he is going for some kind of resolution thru the UN so that we will all have to comply even though guns are not against the law in this country. Somehow he manages to get everything done by going around all of the existing laws and he is going to do it again.

Oh, and there is going to be a huge riot.

This stuff makes me nuts. I did tell those who were panicked over this that if this were really true the NRA would be going absolutely nuts. The paper would be full of letters to the editor. And neither is happening - not a word anywhere.

[Atman]

1. You've only heard this TWICE? You need to get out more.

This is all the rage among my crazy RW FB friends. The UN somehow has the power to override the United States Constitution and unilaterally ban and confiscate all 300,000,000 guns in the U.S. Hillary Clinton has voted for it, and will help make it happen.

No discussion about how our Constitution or international treaties work is tolerated...such talk is just met with "But Obama has already shredded our Constitution, all he has to do is sign an Executive Order." It is pretty surreal. America is full of lots and lots of very stupid, very paranoid (and very racist) people.

[yardwork]

4. Since these rumors have been going of for years, don't they notice that it never happens?

We've been hearing that Obama will confiscate all our guns and Bibles since 2007 but nobody has shown up at the door to collect the firearms and religious tracts yet.

Before Obama we were told that (insert Democrat) was going to confiscate all the guns. Still hasn't happened. Black helicopters from the UN haven't landed yet. How do they explain this delay in implementation?

[JHB]

16. Yep. Was promised UN-blue-helmeted Chinese troops on my street by '98...

...and yet my Chinese vocabulary still consists of nihao and some menu items. No blue meanies force-educating me to learn more.


And now they're concerned about Executive Orders? How about the ones that put all that "shredding" into place while a certain Shrub was pretending to clear brush?

[Atman]

24. Weren't we supposed to convert to Sharia Law by now?

[JHB]

53. I forget. I'll have to research that while I'm having my ham sandwich for lunch.

If you don't hear from me again, then the answer is "yes".

[1StrongBlackMan]

5. This "Agenda 21" narrative is being pushed ...

by glen beck, in an effort to ... wait for it ... wait for it ... drive his book sales.

[JaneyVee]

18. And he didn't even write it, he bought the rights to it. What a fraud he is.

http://www.salon.com/2012/11/19/i_got_duped_by_glenn_beck/

[1StrongBlackMan]

37. But ... But ...

I distinctly recall beck saying that "Simon & Shuster approached him, asking him to read, edit and 'distill' this 'unpolished, but way too long' novel into something they could sale!"

You mean beck LIED to his audience? Oh the shock! The horror of it all!

[1StrongBlackMan]

40. Great Piece ...

Glad you linked to it, as I had missed it.

But what I suspect the author/editor might not fully appreciate is that beck's audience will read this piece of fiction as containing "researched fact." After all, that's how beck is selling it. I suspect, if one were to do a search of freeperville (if it has that capacity) in a couple of months (because it'll take that long for most to "read" the novel), we will see specific excerpts from the book ... I the form of:

"My cousin's girlfriend's sister's softball coach's brother-in-law knows a bartender who overheard a City Planner from somewhere back East, say that they were meeting with a UN official about installing mandatory bike paths."

[mzteaze]

57. Yet another thing I didn't know

Thanks for posting

[tyne]

2. I wish someone

would make a cartoon(for Facebook) something to the effect of:

Before you start on yet another paranoid gun-grabbing tirade, would you please let me know so I can buy stock in ammunition/cabelas/remington? Thanks in advance.

I'm in Idaho and this would really help me out

[yardwork]

3. I think that the NRA and gun/ammo manufacturers start these rumors to encourage sales.

Christmas is coming. Time to stock up because Obama is going to steal our guns again11111

[RKP5637]

7. Bingo!!!

[NewJeffCT]

6. Didn't the same rumor go around sometime around Dec 2008?

or thereabouts?

[RKP5637]

9. Yep, around about then SOS. n/t

[NewJeffCT]

10. There were some re-education camps or something, too

if I recall.

[Aristus]

8. "UN! Take away our guns! UN! Take away our guns!"

It's your typical, tired, right-wing conspiracy boilerplate that's been around for decades. They don't even bother trying anymore...

It's as effective for selling guns to the idjits as "Buy this cologne, and you'll be as sexy as George Clooney!" is for barfly types...

[oswaldactedalone]

30. You mean I won't be as sexy as George Clooney?

Damn, I want my money back.

Where do I sign up as a gun confiscator and re-education camp trainer? Is that how we lower the unemployment rate?

[Aristus]

32. I dunno. Lean close to your monitor and let me smell you.

[LiberalFighter]

11. These rumors have been happening since at least Reagan.

[leftyladyfrommo]

12. Thanks for the replies. This makes more sense now.

I couldn't understand the UN part of this.

Xmas is coming. Buy your loved one a new assault rifle. You need it to protect yourself from the rise of the third Reich. (That's the one I read about last week) The medfia and Obama are in collusion to rasise Obama to dictator.

Man, this stuff is really getting nuts.

It is hard for me because I know these people and really like them. They are good people - just not educated. I tend to just nod my head and say nothing at all.

[yardwork]

26. They probably listen to Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh and watch Fox News all day.

They've been brainwashed. Literally. The Republicans are using sophisticated psychological techniques to play on people's fears and resentments. It's easy to rile people up when you push their buttons, day after day after day.

If I listened to a steady diet of that psy-ops I would probably believe it too.

[proud2BlibKansan]

39. The state GOP in Kansas adopted a resolution

condemning Agenda 21.

I would imagine other state GOPs have done so as well.

So this is relatively mainstream thinking on the right.

[Enrique]

13. the point about the NRA and the letters is not a good point imo

because the NRA is quite capable of pushing any conspiracy theory, no matter how bogus. Remember what they did with Fast and Furious. So tomorrow the NRA comes out and denounces Agneda 21 (I think that's the UN thing you are referring to) and then there goes your argument. Maybe they already have. Same with the letter writers, I'm sure there are plenty of LTTEs about this that your friends can produce, and so there goes your argument.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

14. Whoops

leftyladyfrommo, some gun advocate is going to try to get this thread locked as off topic (which it regrettably probably is).

Discuss politics, issues, and current events. No posts about Israel/Palestine, religion, guns, showbiz, or sports unless there is really big news. No conspiracy theories. No whining about DU.

Any discussion of guns, even if as a side note to UN action or Obama in general, almost always gets moved to the RKBA group (no forum available) where there is a strong abundance of pro-gun advocates to help make sure that never happens.

[yardwork]

28. Thanks for your concern.

[Scuba]

15. Also, it'll be illegal to pray in your own home ...

... in fact, it'll be illegal to utter the name of Gawd, Jeebus or Ronald Raygun.

You'll be required to marry someone of the same sex and anyone who complains will be sent to a "re-education camp".

Whites will be made into slaves for the blacks.

You'll have to buy an electric car or a bicycle. Maybe both!!!


And he was waiting until his second term to do all this, because, well you know.

[Tsiyu]

56. Don't forget that we also get to use our Food Stamp money

for abortions in Hawaii.

I think I'm gonna fake being pregnant and go next week.

[patrice]

17. Rand Paul.

[leftyladyfrommo]

20. This a Rand Paul thing, too?

Man, I am so far behind the times here. And I read the paper every day but I still seem to miss so much. The Kansas City Star is a left leaning paper - or so the writers to the editors say all the time. However, it seems to me that they really try to give equal time to both sides - in letters and editorials. But what do I know.

[patrice]

36. The "Libertarians" I know were pushing a Grover-Nordquist-style oath, from RP, that is very like

what you describe.

I saw the website for it a few months ago, can't find it right now, but the same or similar provisions could be buried anywhere in here http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery

The website described a pledge that the Senate should take to prevent any UN treaties that limit or control the flow of US weapons, including small weapons, into other countries.

I am concerned about this, because it is fertilizes foreign soil around the world for situations that will result in the deaths of US armed forces & their UN counterparts. IOW, it's Project for a New American Century promoting and EXPANDING the our, now nationless, Military Industrial Complex.

The "Libertarians" I know who were pushing a petition supporting this sign-or-we'll-see-to-it-that-you-lose-office extortion of the US Senate have since left here and moved to South Dakota.

[Auntie Bush]

19. Why help keep this stupid rumer spreading across the internet?

The crazy's have enough idiotic lying talking points already.

[Fumesucker]

21. Tell them that Jesus said the persecuted were blessed and should rejoice in their persecution

Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's.

[leftyladyfrommo]

25. I thought that was the Jehova's Witness thing.

Having doors slammed in your face as you go house to house gives you extra points toward going to heaven.

My, this is getting too funny.

[Fumesucker]

29. Matthew 5:10

Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

It's not even extra points, you win the entire lottery when you are persecuted.

And you are supposed to walk the extra mile as well.

Matthew 5:41

And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.

[bhikkhu]

22. They would do better to look at the "settled law" of Supreme Court rulings

http://liveshots.blogs.foxnews.com/2010/06/28/high-courts-big-ruling-for-gun-rights/

...basically, the second amendment was held to overrule local gun restrictions. There are no new gun restricting laws in the works because, basically, they would be invalid before they were written, without a constitutional amendment.

And nothing the UN says is "law" or binding on us here in any way, for better or worse. Needless to say, Glen Beck, his listeners and the NRA are clueless idiots - the give "conspiracy theory" a bad name!

[leftyladyfrommo]

34. Thank you.

Now I have something decent with which to answer these arguments.

[Hosnon]

45. Not entirely accurate.

The U.N. is one of the primary sources of international law, which is binding upon the U.S. with regard to international law (for whatever that's worth).

Also, the U.N. Charter is a part of the supreme law of the land pursuant to the Constitution. While the supremacy probably only relates to the organic statute (the existence of the U.N. itself and our participation in it), it's possible that clear directives from the U.N. could be considered binding legislation here in the U.S. (at least to the extent that they do not conflict with the Constitution, a treaty, or any subsequently passed legislation).

[bhikkhu]

58. Not "possible", not "could be" - the UN Charter doesn't apply as you are describing

Its been pretty well conspiracy-theoried to death, so there is no shortage of speculation and argument online, but what it comes down to (here as well as regarding the OP) is settled law, as decided by the Supreme Court interpreting the US Constitution.

Nothing in the US charter, even considered as a treaty we are signatory on, has legal standing or establishes law here, unless a specific federal implementing law is written, passed and signed for each case. Which puts the UN in the same boat as anyone else - if you have a law you want implemented, you have to get a majority in our elected congress to support it, then you have to have the president sign it.

"Could be considered binding legislation here" was, perhaps, at one time valid speculation, but the Supreme Court decided very broadly against that possibility in Medellin vs. Texas. They left little room for ifs and maybes in that decision, and its unlikely to come up again.

[Hosnon]

62. Big "t" treaties are on par with legislation with chronology being the tie-breaker.

And not all treaties are non-self-executing.

[WinkyDink]

23. Why even post this?

[leftyladyfrommo]

27. Because I haven't heard this one before

and I knew that people here would know more about it and where it actually came from. And see, they do.

[thelordofhell]

31. Who is the most recent President that allowed guns to be taken away?

George W. Bush allowed the military to confiscate civilian guns after Katrina

[Honeycombe8]

33. I haven't heard that. It's silly.

Obama hasn't made one move toward passing gun laws or anything. He has quite a lot on his plate without that. He might have that as a goal in the far future, but there are more pressing items on his agenda right now.

[still_one]

35. It is all bullshit. They are desperately looking for a straw man. /nt

[Freddie]

38. Worked out good for me

My husband sold an old deer rifle for a lot more than he thought he'd get because "you won't be able to buy guns anymore." He did not dissuade the buyer.

[Hosnon]

41. Very easy to knock down because it isn't permitted by our Constitution.

The Second Amendment protects the right of Americans to own firearms. In order to change that, the Constitution must be amended (a conflicting law would simply be unconstitutional). The Constitution has a very explicit amendment process; it is an exclusive process, that is, any attempt to amend the Constitution must be made via that process.

The agreement establishing the U.N. is an Article II Treaty - a treaty signed by the President and ratified by at least 2/3 of the Senate. And while obtaining the signatures of the President and at least 67 Senators is impressive, it is not sufficient to amend the Constitution.

Therefore, nothing the U.N. does can alter our rights under the Constitution, including our Second Amendment rights.

[former-republican]

44. There is another way

By use of BATF

It wouldn't take them away but firearms could be made much harder to obtain.

[Hosnon]

46. What is BATF? nt.

[former-republican]

47. ATF

[Hosnon]

48. That's an agency of the U.S. government, not the U.N. nt.

[former-republican]

49. I know that

The UN rumor is just silly

[Hosnon]

50. Oh, haha. Yeah, it is. nt.

[DevonRex]

59. Oh good grief. ATF cannot do away with constitutional rights.

If Congress decides firearms should be more difficult to obtain then ATF will enforce the laws they pass. That is all.

Some people should learn a thing or two about the constitution and Congress and federal agencies.

[former-republican]

61. reclassified without congress

[safeinOhio]

42. A really true rumor, I started

with a teabag nut at work. I think he bought it too.

If you have cable, Obama and the FBI/CIA have records of who watches FOX news and how much. They are now building internment camps for them. You can avoid this by switching to MSNBC or look out......

[yellowcanine]

43. That rumor is at least 4 years old. The gun industry stirs it up every couple of months.

They aren't stupid. The rumor varies between guns and ammo. So they manage to keep sales high for both.

[graham4anything]

51. ooh, I hope it's true. Now that he is reelected, he can do as he pleases

Maybe he can name Michael Bloomberg as get rid of the gun czar.

Please please please be true.

Guns are WMD and kill.

No true liberal would want one.

And I am Jewish and NO, having more guns would not have turned the Jewish people in WW2 into Nazi killers.

[Rider3]

52. This has been said for YEARS!

The nutwings have been spewing this lie since Obama took office. Did you know that gun sales are at their highest since this administration came in? People are incredibly paranoid, not to mention gullible.

[DCBob]

54. and he also going find some way to extend his Presidency to a third term.

Its just boggles the mind the crap these morons come up with.

[coalition_unwilling]

55. Is that before or after the Rapture? - n/t

[SomethingFishy]

60. Yeah, and how exactly is that going to work?

They going to go door to door? There are more than 300 million guns in this country. Good fucking luck collecting them. I have a friend who believes this crap and he says, "they'll never get past Tennessee.."

It's just stupid. They don't have enough to complain about so they just make shit up.