Jesus was born years earlier than thought, claims Pope

[FarCenter]

The entire Christian calendar is based on a miscalculation, the Pope has declared, as he claims in a new book that Jesus was born several years earlier than commonly believed.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/the-pope/9693576/Jesus-was-born-years-earlier-than-thought-claims-Pope.html

Not from The Onion.

[KansDem]

1. We can settle this...

Let's see his birth certificate.

[arthritisR_US]

15. Ha! Brilliant

[LadyHawkAZ]

28. The LONG FORM! n/t

[rock]

34. A chortle and two guffaws to ya

[valerief]

37. DUzy!!!!! nt

[scheming daemons]

2. This means it is actually 2016 already..... time for another Presidential race!!!!

[FarCenter]

5. It would also push creation back from 4004 to 4008 BC and make the earth 6023 years old!

[cthulu2016]

3. He is, in Catholic fashion, accepting scholarship as a worthwhile thing

It has been known for a long time that Jesus was not born in 1 AD.

I find his statement that Jesus was not born in a manger even more fun.

[HereSince1628]

4. This one's going to require the LONG FORM birth certificate

[mulsh]

6. annother warrior in the war on Christmas, whoda thunk it?

n/t

[Autumn]

7. So was he the midwife?

Where is the birth certificate?

[bluestateguy]

8. While I am a big critic of the Catholic church hierarchy

I do applaud how they take science and history seriously.

[HereSince1628]

9. Yes, very serious...they recognized Galileo was right in the 1990's

That sort of seriously well-aged rumination over an earth-centered universe must be applauded.

[LiberalAndProud]

12. +++

(sarcasm noted)

[cthulu2016]

13. That is false. The church accepted that Galileo was right long ago

what they admited in the 1990s was that the church's persecution of him had been wrong.

The Catholic church is big on correcting its course while not admitting there was anything wrong with the old course.

[HereSince1628]

24. Yes, the not admitting anything wrong part is patently obvious.

BTW, I still want to see something that is contemporary evidence of Jesus birth date before I accept that he even lived.

I understand how this could be difficult, but pissing around arguing about what year he was born without contemporary evidence that he WAS born by necessity leaved it faith-based in the hands of people who will by your own admission say there was nothing wrong with the way it was.

[Cleita]

41. I went to Catholic schools before 1990.

They recognized, Galileo, Linneaus and many other scientists from that time were right. I had very good science classes in Catholic school and there was no Creation nonsense ever mentioned in our science classes. Of course there was plenty of it in religion classes but never did they cross each other.

[Shadowflash]

27. Ha ha! Yeah.

They are revising where and when a child, born of a virgin mother, who is the son of the almighty creator of the universe, was born.

A lot of science being taken really seriously in that.

[libdem4life]

10. So Jesus was born BC and I'm chronologically a few years younger. I like it.

But seriously, this is why some of us still wonder about a lot of Christian history and its historical validity.

[scheming daemons]

17. Actually, it would mean we are now in 2016-2018 instead of 2012

And your birth year would also be 4-6 years later.... so you'd be chronologically exactly the same.

[BlueMTexpat]

11. And this statement from the article is also worth noting,

just as heads are beginning to explode about the so-called "War on Christmas."

...

"The idea that Christ was born on Dec 25 also has no basis in historical fact. "We don't even know which season he was born in. The whole idea of celebrating his birth during the darkest part of the year is probably linked to pagan traditions and the winter solstice."

...

And, as one poster noted above, heads may explode at this as well:

The inclusion of domestic animals in the Nativity scene may have been inspired by pre-Christian traditions, for instance in the Book of Habakkuk, a part of the Hebrew Bible which was probably written by an early prophet in the seventh century BC, Benedict wrote.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/the-pope/9691295/Nativity-donkeys-and-cattle-are-a-myth-says-Pope.html

[arcane1]

20. "probably" linked to pagan traditions and the winter solstice?

[kestrel91316]

21. Gee, YA THINK???????????????

[gkhouston]

23. Actually, I've heard that we may not have translated those passages well. Shocker.

The verse is traditionally something about Mary laying Jesus "in a manger, because there was no room for them at the inn". "Inn", instead of meaning something like a Motel 6, was likely a cataluma, an upper room, probably belonging to a distant relative. Animals may indeed have been kept on a lower level, which would have sheltered the animals and provided cheap heat for the people. Since giving birth would have made Mary ritually unclean, if there were other guests already staying in the guest area, they would have become unclean if they'd touched her or anything she'd touched and that would have been a "reason" to stay with the animals, which is apparently something the kids did anyway, if there was overflow.

Dunno if any of this is true, of course, but makes a heck of a lot more sense than the traditional Nativity story.

[Prism]

16. My Jesuit university taught us 4 BC

This isn't that new. Catholics always knew there was some wiggle room on the date.

[cthulu2016]

18. That was the catholic best estimate when I was growing up also

[oswaldactedalone]

26. I was wondering why this is considered new info.

I marveled as a kid, which was quite a few years ago, that Christ's actual birth was thought to be 4 B.C.

[LiberalFighter]

44. Did the Pope just learned about it?

What was he doing masturbating when it first came out?

Jesus was born before Christ. Wouldn't that mean that Jesus is not Christ?

[ieoeja]

29. 4 BC is when Herod died. So he could have been born "no later" than 4 BC.

The whole Magi and Star of Bethlehem stories works for 17 April 6 BC. Jupiter was eclipsed by the moon as it rose in the east within the constellation of Aires on that date.

According to Magi astrology of the time, that meant a great king was born in Israel at that moment.

[dipsydoodle]

19. Dionysius approximated the conventional date

in relation to when Tiberius became emperor. Changes from the Julian to the Gregorian calender would have had an affect too.

[GeorgeGist]

22. I'm trying ...

[Posteritatis]

25. I'm agnostic and biblical chronology still fascinates me a great deal

Ussher's whole 4004 BC thing was flat-out wrong, of course - the actual figure needed information he wouldn't have had on hand - but the chronology he put together was a really impressive piece of work in its own right, for instance. I'd still like to drop a geology textbook on him of course, but what he did was much more difficult than modern descriptions of the process would have you believe.

Watching people gradually dig up and adjust to awareness of some of the flubs or outright omissions in early church history's interesting too.

[Rambis]

30. Proof positive

[matt819]

31. I have only one question

Does this mean that the world ends on December 21, 2012, or not?

It's already on my calendar, and I've made plans accordingly.

Enquiring minds want to know.

[Poll_Blind]

32. My interest in the Pope is with a person in a position of power. I find it interesting that...

...he's willing to shake things up a bit.

PB

[meow2u3]

35. Did he personally witness the birth of Jesus?

If he didn't, which is absolutely true, he shouldn't speculate.

If he did, then he's too old to be Pope.

[Berlum]

36. Pope fires salvo in War on Christmas. Bill 'Draft-Dodger' O'Reilly (R) is gonna be pissed

[pinboy3niner]

39. Pope to BillO: "Don't you get me wrong. I only want to know."

The Pope also pointed out that "Israel in 4 B.C. had no mass communication."

[muriel_volestrangler]

38. Unless you believe the Gospel of Luke, of course

in which case, Luke 2:2 says he was born AD 6 or later:

2 In those days Caesar Augustus issued a decree that a census should be taken of the entire Roman world. 2 (This was the first census that took place while Quirinius was governor of Syria.) 3 And everyone went to their own town to register.

4 So Joseph also went up from the town of Nazareth in Galilee to Judea, to Bethlehem the town of David, because he belonged to the house and line of David. 5 He went there to register with Mary, who was pledged to be married to him and was expecting a child. 6 While they were there, the time came for the baby to be born, 7 and she gave birth to her firstborn, a son.

Quirinius was appointed governor of Syria in AD 6: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quirinius

Or, both birth stories are the best guesses someone could make about 70 years later, while fitting in with the Jewish prophesies they personally thought were important, and neither can be taken as an accurate account of dates or events.

[LiberalFighter]

45. Having a census requiring everyone

go back to the town they were born is totally ludicrous. I don't think the Romans were that stupid.

[Cleita]

40. I was always taught this in parochial school and that was sixty years ago,

so it's not a new idea. I guess the Pope is just making it official.

[DavidDvorkin]

42. This makes as much sense as arguing about the birthdate of

Brthflx, a name I just made up.

Or Apollo or Ishtar or any other mythological figure.

[SidDithers]

43. A fictitious character was born earlier than a previously recognized arbitrary date...

Interesting.

Sid