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no_hypocrisy

(46,215 posts)
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 07:27 AM Jan 2024

Alina Habba

Now that the dust has settled, here's my take on Habba, Trump, and the Carroll trial.

Habba seemed oblivious to the basic courses in law school of evidence, trial advocacy, and even orientation where you're introduced to civil procedure.

According to Attorney Ethics, you are charged with "zealous representation" of your client. IOW, you do whatever you can to put the position(s) of your client before the factfinder, whether it's a jury or a judge. You do your research, you consult your client, you're organized when you appear in court, and your presentation is coherent and persuasive.

What you don't do is whatever your client tells you to do. Just the opposite: you advise your client of the limitations of his/her/their/its case. And there's always some limitations. Maybe you don't have necessary provable facts. Maybe statutes and caselaw are not promising. I've had to sternly tell clients that they don't have much of a case and we can only fall back on trial where hopefully, adversarial counsel will make mistakes that can be reversed on appeal.

From where I'm sitting, Habba promised Trump they'd win no matter what. She'd tell the judge where to get off. She'd make judicial history and give him justice simultaneously. She'd promise the judge that Trump wouldn't pontificate on the stand, then let him do exactly that while looking helplessly at the judge. TRUMP would win the case, not Habba.

IMO, their "strategy" was to get a mistrial. Or get jury nullification where they'd award E. Jean Carroll something insulting like $1.00. Or get just one juror to refuse to award any amount.

Remember, they could have made a settlement offer of any amount at any time to make this spectacle to go away. But they didn't. They could have asked for the amount to remain undisclosed. They didn't.

And how about THIS: Trump could have publicly apologized to E. Jean Carroll during the trial. I've done this with clients who were legally culpable. Had them write letters of apology, give ALL the money they took back to the Court to give to the victims, and apologize for their actions publicly in court. Did they want to do it? Of course not. But we didn't have a case and they wanted the whole thing to go away. Result: The Court accepted their guilty pleas, apologies, and money BUT didn't impose any fines or prison for larceny. We were granted mercy because of our accepting responsibility and showing humility. Trump *might* have had a reduction in the judgment by the jury.

Alina Habba reminds me of those unfortunate compatriots in law school, where they're called on by the professor about an assigned case, and they end up looking like abject fools in front of 100 students as well as the professor. (It happened to me once -- and once is enough for you to dedicate yourself to being prepared in the future.)

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Alina Habba (Original Post) no_hypocrisy Jan 2024 OP
But Trump and his lawyer know more about the law than any law library dalton99a Jan 2024 #1
Habba publically announced that her looks were more important than her legal skills, which she could fake. usaf-vet Jan 2024 #2
Yep. Liberal In Texas Jan 2024 #9
Quid Pro Quo HandmaidsTaleUntold Jan 2024 #56
Yet that statement is in direct conflict with faking competence convincingly. Shermann Jan 2024 #51
At this point, Habba acts more like a Sister Wife than a lawyer. It's so gross. catbyte Jan 2024 #3
Habba Dabba Doon't😀😂😀 malaise Jan 2024 #4
i dont see how this.. samnsara Jan 2024 #5
Habba wants a TV show PJMcK Jan 2024 #22
I could totally see her in a something a new season of 'Orange is the New Black'... SeattleVet Jan 2024 #49
Her current spouse is in a lot of financial trouble if reports are true Attilatheblond Jan 2024 #31
Even Anal Fistula said he is going to look for a better lawyer for his future trials. 3Hotdogs Jan 2024 #6
That was a fake post. And no she won't be sanctioned onenote Jan 2024 #23
Habba is/was the perfect Trump lawyer... agingdem Jan 2024 #42
Habba brought a hair brush to a gun fight. Pepsidog Jan 2024 #7
And she got spanked with the hairbrush Kennah Jan 2024 #36
Or she spanked her client with it. rubbersole Jan 2024 #45
Might be offset with fines or sanctions by the court Kennah Jan 2024 #46
Trump write a letter of apology? That's precious. dem4decades Jan 2024 #8
It could have been worse. Trump could have represented himself. sop Jan 2024 #10
Right BonnieJW Jan 2024 #25
I'm convinced trump is as threatened as he is partially because his choices for his inner circle Torchlight Jan 2024 #11
A lot of good lawyers have given up on Trump over the years. C_eh_N_eh_D_eh Jan 2024 #21
Trump isn't really interested in competency Random Boomer Jan 2024 #32
Seems what he is REALLY looking for, by surrounding himself with sycophants, is unconditional parental love Attilatheblond Jan 2024 #34
But, but........ MyOwnPeace Jan 2024 #57
She did her best. twodogsbarking Jan 2024 #12
Possibly. dchill Jan 2024 #38
Thanks so much, very informative. Hubba, Hubba was a Trump puppet in court, and an embarrassment to women. Joinfortmill Jan 2024 #13
Not as easy to fake being smart as she thought. tanyev Jan 2024 #14
Roberta Kaplan's partner (forgot her name) is 10x more attractive than Habba and 100x more intelligent. Beakybird Jan 2024 #28
You can only fake being smart... HuskyOffset Jan 2024 #39
Yes, like Ivanka with the world leaders....n/t CANADIANBEAVER69 Jan 2024 #43
trump got the legal representation he deserved. Paladin Jan 2024 #15
Too bad the judge couldn't impose THAT penalty on Trump! Chili Pepper Jan 2024 #37
Neither Trump nor Habba thought it was a legal proceeding. It was a campaign event. Irish_Dem Jan 2024 #16
As a shooting star she wasn't particularly bright. bluesbassman Jan 2024 #17
She was a Habba Dabba in the headlights Blue Owl Jan 2024 #18
In her press statement, she says (Donald) she will appeal. That will also cost $$$$ in lawyer fees. 3Hotdogs Jan 2024 #19
Here's the thing: Attorneys are rarely both good trial lawyers and good appeals lawyers. no_hypocrisy Jan 2024 #20
She won't be a good appellate lawyer either. Ocelot II Jan 2024 #33
How stupid must enigmania Jan 2024 #24
They come from Magalandia (NT) HuskyOffset Jan 2024 #40
Definitely some Dunning-Kruger going on there Silent3 Jan 2024 #59
Kick orangecrush Jan 2024 #26
There is a book called Plaintiff in Chief: A Portrait of Donald Trump in 3500 Lawsuits tetedur Jan 2024 #27
And it's working. rubbersole Jan 2024 #47
Very good analysis and synopsis. Thank you. Firestorm49 Jan 2024 #29
I'm surprised he isn't in jail already with lawyers like Habba and Giuliani IronLionZion Jan 2024 #30
An ad for her services. . . DinahMoeHum Jan 2024 #35
Someone posted this on another site.. I thought it was funny Playingmantis Jan 2024 #41
She's in it only for the notoriety and the money. Martin68 Jan 2024 #44
If he had hired a male attorney, he would be all over the internet louis-t Jan 2024 #48
I'd rather be pretty than smart because I can fake being smart. CrispyQ Jan 2024 #50
She did graduate from one of the lowest ranked law schools in the country PaulRevere08 Jan 2024 #52
Any idea what her rank in class was? TheRickles Jan 2024 #53
Thanks for the informative post. Always nice to hear from someone who understands the details. RussellCattle Jan 2024 #54
Excellent post. calimary Jan 2024 #55
To be fair. czarjak Jan 2024 #58
Ugly Is An Inside Job - Abba's Ugly Through And Through... MayReasonRule Jan 2024 #60

usaf-vet

(6,215 posts)
2. Habba publically announced that her looks were more important than her legal skills, which she could fake.
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 08:08 AM
Jan 2024

The only one that mattered regarding looks was Trump: "She was his type." I'll bet she discussed the case by sitting on his lap.

She went to court dressed like she was going out on the town and wanted to be noticed instead of being a conservative lawyer.

56. Quid Pro Quo
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 07:15 PM
Jan 2024

Not to be crass or assuming she doesn’t have skills but I’m sure she appealed to him either by hitting on him or sleeping with him. That’s what he understands and she has a thirst for power. And she’s a terrible attorney.

Shermann

(7,451 posts)
51. Yet that statement is in direct conflict with faking competence convincingly.
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 04:58 PM
Jan 2024

All up-and-coming snake oil salesmen should learn from Gerald Ratner. Never break the third wall!


catbyte

(34,467 posts)
3. At this point, Habba acts more like a Sister Wife than a lawyer. It's so gross.
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 08:09 AM
Jan 2024

She really hitched her wagon to a star, lol. I hope she gets everything she deserves.

SeattleVet

(5,480 posts)
49. I could totally see her in a something a new season of 'Orange is the New Black'...
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 03:03 PM
Jan 2024

after an absolutely EPIC episode of 'Cops'.

Attilatheblond

(2,222 posts)
31. Her current spouse is in a lot of financial trouble if reports are true
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 11:35 AM
Jan 2024

Thinking Sugar Daddy is more her goal than clients. But she really fails in her research of potential victims, err.... partners.

3Hotdogs

(12,434 posts)
6. Even Anal Fistula said he is going to look for a better lawyer for his future trials.
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 08:46 AM
Jan 2024

But shouldn't she be subject to sanctions? She starts the trial by saying she doesn't know how to present this case. Shouldn't she have withdrawn at that point instead of continuing?

I'm. glad she didn't, but ...

agingdem

(7,863 posts)
42. Habba is/was the perfect Trump lawyer...
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 01:43 PM
Jan 2024

enamored with her client, his lifestyle...and not a twinge of conscience...

Trump's victim-of-bad-lawyering blather is pure bullshit...Habba did precisely what Trump instructed her to do: perform...guest on FOX and trash the judge/the opposing counsel/question E. Jean Carroll's veracity...and then swan into the courtroom, accuse the judge of overt bias, extol the virtues of her client a truly innocent man unfairly condemned for being rich.. and then entertain the idiot reporters waiting outside with moronic bad judge soundbites...

sop

(10,273 posts)
10. It could have been worse. Trump could have represented himself.
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 09:12 AM
Jan 2024

And proven the old adage about having "a fool for a client and an ass for an attorney."

Torchlight

(3,367 posts)
11. I'm convinced trump is as threatened as he is partially because his choices for his inner circle
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 09:13 AM
Jan 2024

are based on something other than skill/talent at the position they are delegated to. Maybe he's looking for loyalty, crudeness, leverage, I dunno, but there's no way any of his people are being vetted for talent as they've all shown, to the last individual, degrees of incompetency that would embarrass a 4th-grader.

I think he could have/would have gotten away with a ton more successfully if he had brought in people for experience in their fields and qualifications of excellence instead of using whatever litmus test he's been using to this point.

Ms. Habba is a perfect example of this.

C_eh_N_eh_D_eh

(2,205 posts)
21. A lot of good lawyers have given up on Trump over the years.
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 10:05 AM
Jan 2024

He refuses to listen to anyone who tells him he can't do something, doesn't know how to shut up, and never pays a debt when he thinks he can bully or weasel his way out of it. Real professionals, in law or any other profession, don't want anything to do with him.

Random Boomer

(4,169 posts)
32. Trump isn't really interested in competency
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 11:40 AM
Jan 2024

Trump lives in his own narcissistic bubble. Maintaining his self-delusion of superiority is his first priority, so all other decisions flow from that. He wants loyalty, obedience, deference. Whether or not they are competent isn't relevant, and he himself is so incompetent that he has no basis on how to judge people's competence, assuming he cared, which he doesn't.

Attilatheblond

(2,222 posts)
34. Seems what he is REALLY looking for, by surrounding himself with sycophants, is unconditional parental love
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 11:49 AM
Jan 2024

but that ship sailed a very long time ago.

Now, he could have tried some professional cognitive therapy to get over the bad parenting he got, but he is too brainwashed by the bad parenting to have ever sought help and growth.

MyOwnPeace

(16,940 posts)
57. But, but........
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 08:26 PM
Jan 2024

don't you remember when he first took office he said he would hire "ONLY THE BEST!!!!!!"

OK, maybe he 'forgot' that part..............

I don't know what the 'current count' of indictments is (not sure when this list was published, but I'm sure it was before DJT's latest 4 indictments, but don't know about other 'administration' officials).

MOST CRIMINAL INDICTMENTS in a RECENT ADMINISTRATION:

TRUMP (Republican) - 219
NIXON (Republican) - 76
REAGAN (Republican) - 26

RECENT ADMINISTRATIONS with the FEWEST CRIMINAL INDICTMENTS:

OBAMA (Democrat) - 0
Carter (Democrat) - 1
Clinton (Democrat) - 2

Hmmmmmmm..................
Interesting numbers there, huh?



Joinfortmill

(14,473 posts)
13. Thanks so much, very informative. Hubba, Hubba was a Trump puppet in court, and an embarrassment to women.
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 09:17 AM
Jan 2024

tanyev

(42,629 posts)
14. Not as easy to fake being smart as she thought.
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 09:33 AM
Jan 2024
Social media users were quick to return to a clip of Ms Habba during a recent interview on a 4 January episode of the PBD podcast, in which she said she would “rather be pretty than smart.”

Discussing her looks, Ms Habba said: “I don’t think I’d be on TV or sitting here if I didn’t look the way I look. I think I caught attention.

“I’m very honest about that and I don’t mind. I’m not a feminist, I believe in strong women but I want my door opened [for me].”

She continued: “Somebody said to me ‘Alina, would you rather be smart or pretty?’ and I said ‘Oh easy, pretty… I can fake being smart’.

https://www.the-independent.com/news/world/americas/us-politics/alina-habba-trump-lawyer-court-b2481296.html

Beakybird

(3,333 posts)
28. Roberta Kaplan's partner (forgot her name) is 10x more attractive than Habba and 100x more intelligent.
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 10:56 AM
Jan 2024

Habba came across as arrogant and incompetent. Carroll's lawyers came across as professional, persuasive, and humane.

HuskyOffset

(891 posts)
39. You can only fake being smart...
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 01:14 PM
Jan 2024

...with people who aren't smart. Smart people will notice you're not actually smart.

Paladin

(28,276 posts)
15. trump got the legal representation he deserved.
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 09:34 AM
Jan 2024

I'd love to see Habba representing him for the rest of his miserable life.

bluesbassman

(19,379 posts)
17. As a shooting star she wasn't particularly bright.
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 09:44 AM
Jan 2024

Her ultimate flameout will be similarly dull and unimpressive.

3Hotdogs

(12,434 posts)
19. In her press statement, she says (Donald) she will appeal. That will also cost $$$$ in lawyer fees.
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 09:55 AM
Jan 2024

And if he wins the appeal, he gets a new trial which will cost even more lawyer fees and jeopardy for an even higher award.

no_hypocrisy

(46,215 posts)
20. Here's the thing: Attorneys are rarely both good trial lawyers and good appeals lawyers.
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 10:04 AM
Jan 2024

And AH sucked at being a trial lawyer.

Ocelot II

(115,877 posts)
33. She won't be a good appellate lawyer either.
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 11:40 AM
Jan 2024

Trials and appeals require different skills, but a good trial lawyer always has an eye on a possible appeal and understands that part of the trial process includes preserving issues for appeal, and therefore has a good working knowledge of the appellate process. A good appellate lawyer understands trials and knows how to focus the appellate court on errors committed by the trial court, which is what appeals are for in the first place. Good appellate lawyers know every aspect of the case inside and out, including all the cases cited in both parties' briefs. At the oral argument they are able to anticipate the judges' questions, knowing that their decision has been tentatively made already on the basis of the briefs and that the purpose of the argument is to support or defeat that decision. They will not try to relitigate facts determined at the trial, make campaign speeches, get snarky with the panel, keep talking after the red light comes on, or draw attention to their cleavage and pouty lips. Habba would be at least as much of a disaster as an appellate lawyer as she was a trial lawyer. She needs to go back to drafting parking garage leases.

Silent3

(15,289 posts)
59. Definitely some Dunning-Kruger going on there
Tue Jan 30, 2024, 07:25 AM
Jan 2024

She's not smart enough to know what smart really is.

tetedur

(820 posts)
27. There is a book called Plaintiff in Chief: A Portrait of Donald Trump in 3500 Lawsuits
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 10:52 AM
Jan 2024

by James D. Zirin published in 2019. It is about how Trump made a life of suing people, being sued, gaming the judicial system for intimidation, financial leverage and just welding power over people who were helpless to fight him.

At times, he did back down when he was going to lose. Perhaps he had competent counsel. Usually when he lost, the settlement would not be public. I didn't finish reading this book but, I don't think he ever publicly apologized for anything.

Trump knows the game. At this point he isn't going to back down on anything that he has done. Nothing he has done or will do bothers his base. He can do anything and he will not be damaged politically.

They railed about "her emails" but it certainly is okay for him to leave 100's of top secret documents on a stage at Mar-A-Largo.

If he just would have given the top secret documents back when the government asked for them, he would not be facing that part of Jack Smith's charges.

If he would have shut his mouth about E. Jean Caroll, everyone would have eventually moved on. I don't believe Melania cares about what he did when this happened. Maybe she cares about the Stormy Daniels incident.

They say he raises funds on the prosecutions. He certainly is the focus of all of America's news and gets the free publicity every day, all day long.

He has twisted the idea of what is admirable in our leaders. He is trying to break the whole system of justice in the courts. He is trying to break the whole democratic system.


Playingmantis

(141 posts)
41. Someone posted this on another site.. I thought it was funny
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 01:25 PM
Jan 2024

I was caught Jaywalking
I got Alina Habba as my lawyer
She pled me out to a charge of manslaughter

Now I'm doing 10-15 hard labor!!

louis-t

(23,297 posts)
48. If he had hired a male attorney, he would be all over the internet
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 02:52 PM
Jan 2024

calling the attorney names and saying what a terrible person he is. But because Alina is 'his type', I doubt he will go after her. Even though she cost him a buttload of money. Well, he caused it to happen but she is really incompetent.

CrispyQ

(36,533 posts)
50. I'd rather be pretty than smart because I can fake being smart.
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 03:45 PM
Jan 2024


That may not be an exact quote but did you catch that video of her, posted the other day? I believe Michael Steele was the one who asked her if she'd rather be pretty or smart & that was her answer.

PaulRevere08

(449 posts)
52. She did graduate from one of the lowest ranked law schools in the country
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 05:17 PM
Jan 2024

Widener University--Delaware 2023-2024 Rankings
Widener University--Delaware is ranked No. 175 (tie) in Best Law Schools and No. 64-70 in Part-time Law. Schools are ranked according to their performance across a set of widely accepted indicators of excellence.

175 out of 196 law schools

calimary

(81,519 posts)
55. Excellent post.
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 06:54 PM
Jan 2024

I appreciate your take on this, no_hypocrisy. Most informative.

But unfortunately, being trump means never having to say you’re sorry.

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