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Wounded Bear

(62,480 posts)
Fri Mar 1, 2024, 09:13 PM Mar 2024

In the end, it's all about the fight between Church and Science...

The current focus is on women's health care issues, of course, and a fight that we libs desperately need to win for all women everywhere. But the roots of all this goes back hundreds of years, back to the Middle Ages and the Enlightenment.

What we're currently seeing is a movement of Evangelicals, Fundamentalists, and all the various permutations of Talibangelicals attempting to turn back the medical calendar by decades, if not centuries. It's roots go back to putting Gallileo on house arrest for saying that the earth revolves around the sun. During the Enlightenment, numerous philosophical and scientific scholars started applying rational thought to all fields of scientific investigation and research. Amazing advances were made in science and medicine, culminating during the 20th Century in actually providing relief from many of the worst scourges of disease that afflicted less advanced civilizations throughout history.

Coupled with that came advances in women's health, starting with doctors and researchers actually starting to acknowledge that many of the things that make women's lives shorter and less enjoyable were separate from male problems and actually working on solving some of them. Throw in the ability to avoid and terminate unwanted pregancy and methods to solve the problems of inability or difficulty to start and nuture desired pregnancies. It has all helped to make women's lives more livable, productive, and just more full.

And therein lies the basic problem. Right now, it's the driving issue behind the current attacks on women's health, the problem being, of course, that all of this is basically thwarting their vision of "God's Will." In their minds, we're supposed to leave all of that up to their invisible friend in the sky. Let go and let God.

It drove the anti-vax crowd that cost untold thousands of lives in the Covd pandemic, and now it threatens thousands more, both in that and in the thousands (millions? ) of women needing health care in all of it facets. If God "gifted" a woman with a body that has difficulty getting pregnant, well suck it up, it's God's Will. If a woman hasn't found "the right man" to join with and have children together, he'll send you a rapist to handle the job...and don't you dare to thwart God's Will.

Abortion is important as a singular issue, but it's really just the tip of the iceberg threatening the Titanic ship of state. All forms of modern medicine and scientific research is threatened, because it undermines their ideology. We've suffered real setbacks in these basic advances in modern science and medicine. We need to fight back because yes, the specter of a Gilead-like society is a real threat.

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In the end, it's all about the fight between Church and Science... (Original Post) Wounded Bear Mar 2024 OP
100% agree OnDoutside Mar 2024 #1
X versus y Roy Rolling Mar 2024 #12
The problem is the dopes pouring money into disinformation OnDoutside Mar 2024 #20
I suggest it's the oligarch billionaires vs the rest of us. If cbabe Mar 2024 #2
It is also those who advocate for fascist governments. Irish_Dem Mar 2024 #4
My question remains RickHworth Mar 2024 #3
Just have faith. rubbersole Mar 2024 #6
Somehow I missed that hard fact. dchill Mar 2024 #15
Yes education, medicine, science are all at risk. Irish_Dem Mar 2024 #5
There are no gods, just too many people pretending to speak for them. (n/t) DJ Synikus Makisimus Mar 2024 #7
Reality v make believe. Sibelius Fan Mar 2024 #8
Interesting DET Mar 2024 #9
God Alsteen Mar 2024 #10
All this "God's will" bullshit is just that - bullshit. 3catwoman3 Mar 2024 #11
I agree the struggle has been framed by Republicans as a fight between Church and Science, but the leaders of the Martin68 Mar 2024 #13
The leaders don't believe, but they certainly use the religious bullshit to steer the message... Wounded Bear Mar 2024 #16
Regarding Religion, Seneca Lucius Said This... GB_RN Mar 2024 #18
I'm so tired of the holier than thought crowd trying to legislate everything. Initech Mar 2024 #14
But America Was Founded... GB_RN Mar 2024 #19
For just one day... Ligyron Mar 2024 #17

Roy Rolling

(7,293 posts)
12. X versus y
Fri Mar 1, 2024, 10:50 PM
Mar 2024

The church vs science can be refined into unsubstantiated faith versus evidence.

And we all know how that should end.

OnDoutside

(20,850 posts)
20. The problem is the dopes pouring money into disinformation
Sun Mar 3, 2024, 10:16 AM
Mar 2024

campaigns, being fed nonsense by charlatans, on the pretext that they are doing the Lord's work. It's so hard to counteract this with facts alone.

cbabe

(5,237 posts)
2. I suggest it's the oligarch billionaires vs the rest of us. If
Fri Mar 1, 2024, 09:27 PM
Mar 2024

they can keep us divided into factions over culture wars et al, we aren’t paying attention to them and their power over us.

Irish_Dem

(72,217 posts)
4. It is also those who advocate for fascist governments.
Fri Mar 1, 2024, 09:30 PM
Mar 2024

They use the same divide and conquer strategy.
The GOP fascists want total and permanent power.

RickHworth

(137 posts)
3. My question remains
Fri Mar 1, 2024, 09:29 PM
Mar 2024

If there's no test for religious beliefs, how can we pass laws based exclusively on religious beliefs?

DET

(2,108 posts)
9. Interesting
Fri Mar 1, 2024, 10:07 PM
Mar 2024

I never quite thought of it like that - that scientific progress conflicts with ‘God’s will’ and is therefore unacceptable. You’d think that self-preservation would come into play at some point, however. I guess the wingnuts feel that if they get Covid and die, then its God’s will. Can’t interfere with the process by taking a vaccine. Makes sense in its own bizarre way. I have a really hard time wrapping my brain around how the religious right thinks, especially when they insist that the rest of us should think the same way.

Alsteen

(88 posts)
10. God
Fri Mar 1, 2024, 10:27 PM
Mar 2024

Who's to say that God didn't send the scientists to us to help make our lives better? Makes as much sense as anything else.

3catwoman3

(27,132 posts)
11. All this "God's will" bullshit is just that - bullshit.
Fri Mar 1, 2024, 10:35 PM
Mar 2024

If you want to look at medical interventions as interfering with gawd's will, ask these folks how they feel about these interferences:

-if they had a cardiac arrest, would they want to be defibrillated and have CPR done?
-if they had a ruptured appendix, would they want a surgeon to remove it?
-if their child had a painful ear infection, would they want an antibiotic and some Tylenol for the child?
-if they or a family member had cancer, would they want an oncologist involved?
-if they were nearsighted, would they want glasses so they could drive?

-etc, etc, etc - all medical interventions interfere with "gawd's will."

Martin68

(26,146 posts)
13. I agree the struggle has been framed by Republicans as a fight between Church and Science, but the leaders of the
Fri Mar 1, 2024, 10:59 PM
Mar 2024

the MAGA movement and the GOP don't really believe in Christianity. They only believe in power.

Wounded Bear

(62,480 posts)
16. The leaders don't believe, but they certainly use the religious bullshit to steer the message...
Fri Mar 1, 2024, 11:53 PM
Mar 2024

and herd the sheep.

GB_RN

(3,399 posts)
18. Regarding Religion, Seneca Lucius Said This...
Sat Mar 2, 2024, 12:26 AM
Mar 2024

“Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.”

Appropriate.

Ligyron

(7,948 posts)
17. For just one day...
Sat Mar 2, 2024, 12:02 AM
Mar 2024

For just one day I'd like to hear no appeals or references to an invisible entity that no one has ever produced any good evidence that a rational person would accept for it's very existence.

I wish we could somehow drag this into a courtroom and make its apologists provide such evidence and when they couldn't, all references and appeals to it removed from public life forthwith.

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