Did anyone else watch Mika's interview with Suzie Orman today on Morning Joe?

[CTyankee]

Orman was advising that women forgo that Starbucks coffee they take out each morning and if they just put the money in an interest bearing savings account they could end up very rich when they retire.

That sounds good and I'm sure Mika feels her campaign for women's economic security, "Know Your Value," is making a contribution toward that goal. But the Starbucks reference really struck me as elitist and a bit condescending.

Am I wrong here? Did anyone else have that reaction (if you were watching MJ, which I know lots of DUers hate)...

Sorry, couldn't find a video clip...

[madaboutharry]

1. Singling out one particular business is essentially calling for a boycott.

Sounds like a rather ignorant suggestion. There are a lot of other things people waste their money on.

[snowybirdie]

2. You're correct

Not every woman gets that Starbucks fix every morning. Most probably. When you're struggling with making a paycheck stretch, that's the last thing you'd buy. More likely diapers or milk for the kids.

[Marcus IM]

3. Suzie Orman is a con artist.

Last edited Sat Mar 16, 2024, 09:15 PM - Edit history (1)

Yet another con artist from House Winfrey.

[niyad]

40. I remember seeing comments about the con artist here on DU some

time back, so I went back online, and found three interesting, disturbing, articles that I mention in post 39. She is even worse than I thought.

[BigDemVoter]

45. Yikes, I didn't know this!

[niyad]

46. I caught her act several times, and managed about two minutes. She

reminded me of televangelists and other huckster types.

[brush]

52. Suzie Roman? Here all Suzie Orman is suggesting is to put away a few dollars regularly...

into an investment vehicle and it will grow to a sizeable amount come retirement time...that is if you don't touch it.

That's a practical tip, not a con.

i don't know whether she runs cons, but that's not one.

[Marcus IM]

59. Thanks for pointing out my misspelling.

I didn't say she's a con about this rather obvious financial tip. It's about her past cons.

[angrychair]

61. I have to disagree

It's a bullshit. Elitist nonsense. In the world of investment advice it is second only to Beanie Babies or NFTs as being absolutely garbage.
Best case scenario, even if invested for 25 years, it would produce a very small amount of income over a very short distribution period.
Plan and simple it's horrible advice that denies people simple life pleasures like a single cup of coffee.

[brush]

62. Nuts. It's the same principle as investing on the job in a 401k.

If you do it steadily over 30 to 35 years it accumulates, the corporation hold it, and in that time, if you don't touch it, you'll have a sizeable sum at retirement age.

I know, because I've done it.

You're wrong. Simple as that.

NFts, everyone with any sense knows thats bullshit. They're not real.

[angrychair]

65. In principle

The concept is the same. That's not what anyone is arguing. It's the irrelevant sums of money in comparison to more practical retirement investments.
It's also the elitist arrogance of "well if you just just didn't coffee you could be a millionaire"
It rubs people the wrong way.

[brush]

67. Again, if you invest $8.00 a day, what StarBucks costs now...

Last edited Sun Mar 17, 2024, 05:07 PM - Edit history (2)

that's $175.00 or more (if you add in Sat. and Sun coffee) a month. You do that for 30-40 years in a solid investment vehicle with increasing share value or earned interest and compounding, and don't touch it, that amount is close to what many people have taken out of their checks for a 401k and they end up with a sizeable sum at retirement age.

It's not rocket science.

[LudwigPastorius]

64. Putting your $5 dollar-a-day coffee money into a savings account for 40 years...

won't make you rich. It will yield some money, which is better than nothing, but if you're lucky it might cover half of just your medical costs in retirement.

She's selling people a false narrative and fake peace of mind, and getting filthy rich off of it.

[brush]

66. See post 67. It's the 401k principle.

Last edited Sun Mar 17, 2024, 04:55 AM - Edit history (1)

[DURHAM D]

4. Her point was don't spend your money on

overpriced stuff you don't need. Her example - If you forgo an expensive beverage every morning for the length of your working life and put it in a savings account instead you will have an extra $1 Million dollars at retirement.

It was neither elitist or condescending imo. It was a wakeup call.

[RubyRose]

5. That's the way I saw it.

[BannonsLiver]

9. +10000

Americans are generally irresponsible with money so I’m not surprised someone that pushes back on that is met with hostility.

[TheProle]

10. Agreed. "Starbucks" was shorthand

[Scrivener7]

12. I get the point, but if those were the numbers she used, she's way off.

$150 saved per month (figuring the coffee costs $5 per day), and figuring 7% compounded return on the money will earn you just shy of $183,000 after 30 years.

Nothing to sneeze at, but it's not a million.

[crazylikafox]

18. Where can I get 7% compounded interest?

For the last 20 years interest has been close to nothing. Slightly higher rates the last year or so are an aberration

[Scrivener7]

23. The S and P has averaged higher than that for

any given 20 year period.

But if you are saying you believe that return is impossible you are supporting my comment.

[crazylikafox]

29. That's from the stock market, not insured bank deposits

The S&P is not risk free

[ProfessorGAC]

36. Rught Now...

...there are many banks offering 4% or greater on savings accounts.
NerdWallet shows five on this list. Still not near 7%, but much higher than the recent several past years.

https://www.nerdwallet.com/m/banking/standout-online-savings-accounts-7?bucket_id=Desktop+Control&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwhtWvBhD9ARIsAOP0GoiSSb4DuC2Y2HKog_BXD6kbNd0GtmShwIVVn6ZiN8G0xQxpvvW4ZREaAo8aEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds&mktg_body=2989&mktg_hline=19335&mktg_place=5&model_execution_id=73F0F9E5-5B16-4A4F-9758-C4C802ACD7CE&nw_campaign_id=151010402767892900&utm_campaign=bk_mktg_paid_041017_savings_e&utm_content=sl&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=goog&utm_term=savings+account+bonus

[Scrivener7]

60. But that's where you can earn 7% or more over the long run.

Nothing is risk free.

[niyad]

41. She has been, according to articles I referenced below, talking about Roth IRA's

which are not all that available to the little people.

[BannonsLiver]

30. "Figuring the coffee costs $5 per day"

2009 called and wants its prices back.

[ProfessorGAC]

35. You Sure About That

Aside from the Mocha drinks, only 12 items on the whole rest of the menu is under 5 bucks.
The Mocha drinks are quite a bit more. But, without actually counting the whole list, about 2/3rds of the menu is less than $5.
Not sure that using $5 is that far off.
https://www.itsyummi.com/starbucks-menu-with-prices/

[BannonsLiver]

68. Pretty sure, yeah.

By the time people add squirts and foamy milk and upsize it’s more than $3. The company says their average customer spends $12 each visit. Anyway, as anyone who has ever stood in line at a Starbucks can attest to, few people just go in for plain black coffee.

[ProfessorGAC]

70. Funny That The Online Menu Says Otherwise

[niyad]

49. And one thing she did not mention, apparently, was that she thinks people

should not retire until 70.

[cally]

57. thank you. I remember an article about this

It’s a con. Yes, you can save money and it is wise to save if possible, but you won’t be a millionaire

[GuppyGal]

15. +1000

[elleng]

53. Sounds good to me, but

I prefer dunkin!

[Rebl2]

56. Make your

coffee at home and take your lunch so you aren’t spending money eating out all the time.

[zeusdogmom]

6. I had a similar reaction

I think both women meant well - and it is true - tuck a little bit away each day and it does add up. But I have a feeling it has been a long time since either woman has to watch the daily pennies. And generally for most of us as life gets easier financially, the memories of paychecks just barely or worse not stretching far enough tend to fade. It is easy to say “skip your (fill in the blank) “. Much harder to specifically work toward a more secure financial life for others. Harder still going thru each day knowing there just aren’t enough available dollars to cover the needs of the family.

[CTyankee]

8. It is simplistic advice. True, but kinda condescending.

When I worked and had a really limited budget, I envied co-workers who could go out to eat in a restaurant for lunch, when I was brown bagging and hating it.

[Scrivener7]

13. Lol! I hear you! The year I bought my first apartment I ate Frosted Mini Wheats for two

meals a day!

But it really paid off. I got it during the housing crash in New York City in 1990 and paid the princely sum of $79,000 for it. I recently found it online and it's going for $500K now!

[niyad]

50. You were taking the Kellogg's ceo's advice early. That man, who gets

between four and five mil a year, was saying that the way to beat rising food costs was to eat cereal at dinner. I guees so that he can get even bigger bonuses.

[MOMFUDSKI]

7. I agree with Susie.

I observe and hear how the young people spend their money. They want it all now. Recent commercial shows 2 young women using a laundry service. WTF? There’s your answer.

[ProudMNDemocrat]

11. A friend of mine I used to work with in her Costme Shop..

From April of 2000 to July 2005, often complained about the cost of Health Insurance(She had none) herself until she turned 65 and got on Medicare. the shop opened at 10am. She would close the shop at 11:30 am for a lunch break and reopen at 1pm until 7pm. Of all the money she spent for lunch, she could have had the money for Health Insurance each month. I started bringing my lunch to the shop, remaining open while she was at lunch, then take my hour.

In the 5 years and 3 months I worked for her designing and making costumes for Rent or Sale, handle the customers who walked in, my wage increased by 50 cents total. A dime raise per year. I started at $8.50 an hour with no benefits and ended with $9 per hour. I have been on my own since then.

[Arthur_Frain]

14. They've been giving this same advice for over a decade now.

Just forego your “Starbucks” and avocado toast (that’s the big code word/whipping post lately), and save that money, you’ll bootstrap yourself up in no time. Paternalistic and condescending as always.

Had some connection to reality when your 401K could be shopped around to get you 8% interest on your long term investments. As I recall 8 and 12 were the numbers to shoot for, if you could get 8% interest your money doubles in 12 years, if you can find 12% your money doubles in 8 years. So the idea (back in the early 90s) was that you could find a mutual fund that was well invested and get to that 8%. Haven’t seen reliable interest rates anywhere near that for quite some time now.

When they only pay you .25% on your savings, that foregone Mocha and avocado toast doesn’t mean shit.

[Demsrule86]

22. The only folks who make money are Suzie Ormon and her ilk.

[niyad]

43. Exactly.

[niyad]

42. Exactly.

[GuppyGal]

16. It's smart advise since we all know that the majority of us do waste money on BS stuff. And she means Dunkin Donuts

too or WHATEVER you are wasting your money on.

[Emile]

17. Damn, what's a cup of coffee at Starbucks cost?

[CTyankee]

19. I have no idea. I never go to Starbucks. I think Mika cited about $5-8.

You could make extra coffee (buy the really good stuff on sale if possible), put it into a thermos bottle and take it to work with you. I'm retired but that's what I would do if I were still working.

[Demsrule86]

21. No one ever says men should skip Starbucks now do they?

[CTyankee]

31. True! And that is why we should just get off the Starbucks shit.

It's a distraction from what the fight for equality is: it is a long battle, often lonely, often misunderstood and we want better for ourselves, our granddaughters and daughters.

[niyad]

44. She has been yammering about Starbucks, and, apparently, avocado toast

for years.

[Demsrule86]

20. I despise Suzie Orman...who has gotten rich off of giving bad financial advice.

[MotownPgh]

33. 100%

[Brenda]

34. Yep. She's the female Jim Cramer.

[Demsrule86]

37. Yes she is...she expects the little people to live with nothing and she lives off of those

foolish enough to buy her shitty books. If you look at her advice...it is bad advice too.

[niyad]

48. Exactly.

[Demsrule86]

38. Yes she is...she expects the little people to live with nothing and she lives off of those

foolish enough to buy her shitty books. If you look at her advice...it is bad advice too.

[niyad]

47. Exactly.

[elocs]

24. Why can't it be "Morning Mika"? It would be more watchable.

I've seen her roll her eyes when Joe is on a rant like she's thinking "shut up already".

[MOMFUDSKI]

32. I prefer when Mika is off. She is just not

the sharpest tool in the shed. I learn nothing from her ever.

[ProfessorGAC]

58. Off Topic, But...

...congrats on 5,000 posts!

[RandomNumbers]

25. Didn't watch it, but she is right

I never understood why people get into a daily Starbucks (or whatever coffee shop) habit.

I realize that not everyone goes to a workplace that has free or at least inexpensive coffee. But I suspect most of those who don't, are among those who can least afford to spend that money every day. It's good financial advice to suggest that people look at re-organizing their habits to eliminate that cost.

[bucolic_frolic]

26. We're told to go for value investing, well that applies to products too

There's a fat profit built into every retail price.

[obnoxiousdrunk]

27. Makes sense.

[sinkingfeeling]

28. Guess I'll end up poor since I hate Starbuck's coffee.

[niyad]

39. First of all, that is part of the same schtick she has been handing out for years,

shaming women's spending habits, overlooking financial realities for the not-wealthy (which is all your own fault, of course! Nothing inherently f'd up in the system!)

Second of all, I was a bit surprised to see the level of judgment and condemnation in some of the posts here about how people spend their money.

Third of all, several articles about one of oprah's little grifts. . errr. . gifts to us: (note: I cannot link to the articles directly, a glitch in my computer does not let me link). But you should be able to find them if you are at all interested:

"14 Reasons to Not Listen to suze orman". Jeff Rose Nov. 16 2023.
www.goodfinancialcents.com

"Four Things suze orman Is Dead Wrong About" Aug. 23, 2021. Motley Fool
www.fool.com

"Personal Finance Industry A Scam" Kashana Cauley June 13, 2019 GQ

[brush]

51. I didn't see it. I've watch Orman's show when it was on regularly. She gives practical tips.

Take away the "Starbucks" elite-sounding name and all she's saying is put away an amount regularly in an investment vehicle and it'll grow to a sizable amount come retirement age...that is if you leave it alone and don't touch it.

[beaglelover]

55. That is certainly the key to financial success. I've been lucky enough to work for employers my entire career

who offer a 401(k) plan. My Dad gave me the advice to save as much as I could each year in the 401(k) plan, even in my early 20s. Back then I tried to put the max in each year and most years I did. It was hard to do that and still meet my everyday bills, like rent, car payment, etc. and there were many Sundays looking in the couch cushions for change so I could get a burger at McDonalds for dinner. But it has certainly paid off at the age of 59. My 401(k) balance is such now, that I can comfortably retire next year and live well into my 90s and maintain the very comfortable lifestyle my husband and I currently live.

[Mike Nelson]

54. No, but...

... I did notice she dropped showing that big cup of Starbuck's coffee in front of her... I thought it was funny because she had that crusade against sugary "big gulp" drinks. She stopped that and switched to a big gulp Caffeine business. I smell money!

[tinrobot]

63. In other words - stop drinking Starbucks so your CEO can have a second yacht.

You can cut out all the Starbucks you want, but after a while, there's nothing left to cut. The best way to retire is to make more money.

Suzy is just perpetuating the acceptance of low pay as normal. And she rarely mentions that women get paid less. If women got paid the same as men, they might be able to have a Starbucks every once in awhile. And... if everyone actually got paid what they were actually worth, retirement wouldn't such a big issue.

Instead, CEO pay keeps rising while relative wages don't keep up. And so, we get advice to cut out the Starbucks instead of asking for a living wage. Pathetic.

[Bucky]

69. It's a shame that women can't BOTH invest AND drink coffee

I'm sorry I didn't see that. In the past the Morning Joe crew has been downright obnoxious about promoting Starbucks as a product placement ads sponsor.

I would have expected Mika to say something like "No!! Keep on going to starbucks. But maybe families could cut back on the Gerber's instead"

[scipan]

71. Compound interest calculator

$7/day, 5 days/week
In a savings account at 4% interest, compounded monthly (not sure if this is what most banks do)

After 30 years:
$95,972.82 (45,564.82 interest)
https://www.thecalculatorsite.com/finance/calculators/compoundinterestcalculator.php
(Play around with it)

BUT
$1.00 30 years ago buys you what
$2.11 buys you today
https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=1.00&year1=199401&year2=202401
So, congratulations, you end up with about the same as you invested.

I think buying a house as soon as you can is much better advice.

[LudwigPastorius]

72. Saw this meme, and it seemed apropos: