When Trump Has to Sell off Properties, Under Duress, Surprises Will Come

[MineralMan]

Nobody actually knows the real value of Trump's real estate holdings. He has lied about them again and again, and even he has no real idea of their value. The value will become known, though, when he is forced to liquidate asses to pay the half billion dollars he owes to the State of New York. Value is always what people will pay for an asset when it is on the market.

I suspect that Trump is going to be unpleasantly surprised when he finds out the true value of each property that has to be sold off. Why?

Deferred Maintenance.

Commercial and large scale residential properties owned by absentee landlords, speculators, and slumlords like Trump don't do well when they are inspected before people bid on them. Such owners take money from their properties. They don't spend money on them. What that means is that the properties deteriorate over time. When they are forced onto the market, all of that deferred maintenance comes to light. It's part of the equation of determining how much to bid, if you are a buyer. Inspections happen. Those inspections look beneath the surface of the building, so poor maintenance is discovered.

Real estate investors and slumlords like Trump will do anything possible to avoid making necessary repairs. Potential buyers know that, and insist on a thorough look in dark corners and behind painted facades. They have to assess what it's going to cost to rehabilitate a property. They will find out what is needed and add that to their calculations. It's just business, see...

Anyhow, I guarantee that Trump has not maintained his properties well. That's how he rolls. We'll all get to be surprised at the real values of his properties. Or not.

It won't be pretty.

[CrispyQ]

1. Here's a really interesting article on some of his holdings.

"Trump owns the service areas." "Trump owns a 30% stake." "Trump owns the ground lease." "Trump may own some units."

https://www.curbed.com/article/trump-lawsuit-real-estate-nyc-letitia-james.html

[MineralMan]

7. I'm not surprised, actually.

I suspect his actual net worth is far, far lower than he claims. That, too, will become known before too long.

[PatSeg]

19. Yes, all those dirty little secrets that

Trump doesn't want the world to know. I suspect that he's never been worth close to anything that he claims. He lies about everything.

The public humiliation will be something to see.

[malaise]

37. The public humiliation will be something to see.

Please please please

[erronis]

42. But 'they' will love him even more. He's being persecuted, just like Jesus.

[rubbersole]

61. "Treated worse than Lincoln."

[Wednesdays]

63. Jesus owned high-rise real estate in Manhattan?

[Eyeball_Kid]

65. Some will, wanting to embrace their mythical dreams.

Others will clam up and lose their faith.

But there will virtually be no increase in his following. At best, it will decrease a little. But the more likely scenario is that, as the baggage mounts, so will the number of those who will flee his camp. Hint: I just read that membership and patronage at Mar-a-Lago is taking a big hit. Many don't want to be associated with a person demanding to be a dictator who has absolute criminal immunity.

[Maeve]

2. And then there is leverage

He doesn't own anything free and clear, it's all mortgaged and partially owned.

[JT45242]

59. Between taxes and loans most will be sold for loss..

That is my prediction.

After gains taxes and paying off the mortgages, many will be a net loss or so small a positive that he never gets close to the totals he needs for Carroll and state of New York.

[Omnipresent]

102. I don't know, trump probably has 2 million in equity in trump tower, since the last time he mortgaged it.

Every little bit helps, right?

[Happy Hoosier]

3. I think you are correct.

I read an article about the poor state of repair at Trump Tower. Trump's approach seems to be a layer of gold paint is all anything needs.

Given the look of a lot of patrons at Merde-Log-o, it's clear that a lot of his patrons are used to just plastering over the cracks.

[Attilatheblond]

10. Can we nominate people for literary awards and/or poetic genius?

I want to enter Happy Hoosier for any such awards. That is literary genius right there.

[PatSeg]

21. That pretty much sums up everything about Trump

It is all a fake veneer - fake hair, fake tan, fake wealth, fake magazine covers, fake crowd sizes, fake votes, fake success, etc. He only cares about appearances.

[enid602]

78. Stench

I imagine the stench (both body and halitosis) is real, though.

[PatSeg]

80. Ha, ha, ha!!!

Okay, I'll grant him that. I'm quite sure it is very real. I've heard that he stinks "bigly". People tell me they've never smelled anything quite like it.

[alterfurz]

88. Gilded Emptiness

[PatSeg]

89. "Gilded Emptiness"

Now that is a keeper!

[3Hotdogs]

58. Why you're wrong. Anal Fistula would not hesitate to repair the properties.

There would be no cost to fixin' stuff since he doesn't pay contractors, lawyers and so forth.

The only service for which there is record of him paying, is prostitution. But even there, we don't know how much a golden shower costs these days.

[rubbersole]

64. Pootie probably picked up that tab...

...for the film rights.

[70sEraVet]

83. Clever!

[Ocelot II]

4. It will be very interesting. We know that the properties have been grossly overvalued,

and it's also known that at least some of them have been maintained/remodeled/decorated as cheaply as possible. A 2016 article, https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a49868/trump-tower-what-a-dump/ describes what a dump Trump Tower really was, at least at that time. I can't imagine it's in any better shape now. If there ever was a modern Potemkin village it's the Trump real estate "empire."

[ProfessorGAC]

48. One Example I Recall

Not directly related to maintenance, but I remember a story about TFG staffing a piano store owner who sold the casinos pianos.
He stiffed the guy for 60 something grand for, IIRC, 30 pianos.
In posh hotels, they were buying $2,000 grand pianos. We're the made of plywood?
An example of all glitter, no gold.

[MissLilyBart]

62. Know the story well

The pianos in question were purchased from a small business in my community, Freehold Music Center.

It was eight pianos for $100,000, for one of the Atlantic City casinos. After delivery, Trump offered $70,000, stiffing the business for 30K.

[ProfessorGAC]

71. I Had The Numbers Wrong

I remembered it worse than it was.
12 grand is still cheap for a grand. My console listed at $8,000 in 2001. A console!
But, this is much less pecuniary than I remembered.
Thanks for the clarification.

[LiberalFighter]

5. Hopefully he used the same method on MaraLago.

Roof leaks? Gas leaks? Outdated kitchen appliances? Vermin such as cockroaches? AC needs maintenance?

[MineralMan]

6. No doubt he did. Aside from the portions of it he occupies,

I doubt that he gives a damn. It's just not his style to care about such things.

[eppur_se_muova]

8. Just a reminder: Trump Plaza Hotel and Casino was ruled a hazard, and demolished.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/feb/17/trump-casino-demolished-atlantic-city-failed

[MineralMan]

11. True.

[MichMan]

12. He had not owned it for 5 years when it was torn down.

The casino opened in 1984 during a decade of excess for Trump and other kings of capitalism. It hosted parties for countless Hollywood actors, rock stars and sportspeople. But after a string of bankruptcy filings, the New York property tycoon and reality TV host cut ties with it in 2009.

[ZonkerHarris]

27. takes longer than 5 years for a casino building to deteriorate. Started under his watch.

[Ray Bruns]

92. How in god's name do you bankrupt a casino?

[MichMan]

98. There are quite a few that have declared bankruptcy

According to the link, a third of all Casinos in Atlantic City declared bankruptcy.

I would hazard a guess that once casinos were ubiquitous in many other states, Atlantic City was no longer unique for gambling and customers got their gambling fix other places. For example, there are dozens in my state.

[link:https://www.gamblingsites.com/blog/casinos-that-went-bankrupt/|

[Blue Owl]

9. Sure would be nice if that high-rise on the beautiful Chicago riverfront were stripped of his name

What a blight to see those five loathsome letters toxify an otherwise classic urban landscape...

[3catwoman3]

72. Yes, it sure would. A few years ago, maybe 2018, we did an architechtural...

...river tour on the Chicago River. The place where the boats moored looked directly up at those 5 damn letters. I pulled my visor way low over my eyes until we were underway, so I wouldn't have to look at that name.

[OMGWTF]

99. Shout out for the architectural river cruise in Chicago. I've done it twice. You will learn a lot.

[prodigitalson]

13. "behind painted facades" is the tfg business model

[MineralMan]

14. Yup. In all things.

[NBachers]

15. Do bodies poured into the slabs and foundations reduce the value of a building?

[MineralMan]

16. Only if they smell.

[flying_wahini]

17. I'm waiting for all the Chinese and Saudi nationals to leave like rats on a sinking ship.

I can hope.

[Paladin]

18. It won't be pretty---it'll be GORGEOUS. (nt)

[Mr.Bill]

20. I think a lot of people are going to find out

that he owns far less property than they think.

[calimary]

39. Well, bring it on!

[Shipwack]

46. As someone else speculated...

He probably doesn’t own anything completely now. One of his buildings might be worth fifty million, but it might have a forty million dollar lien on it. He could only get ten million out of selling it.

This could be the reason he can’t find anyone to underwrite the loan he needs to pay his fines. He owns nothing free and clear. He has run out of Pauls to pay Peter with.

[wiggs]

22. He said Saudis would pay anything...for MAL I believe. Maintenance aside, another potential problem

is that he may not hold much equity in a lot of his properties...there may be loans, other investors, trusts in which others have some control.

Yes, there will be surprises.

[ms liberty]

23. K&R n/t

[COL Mustard]

24. He may have to sell

For pennies on the penny.

My schadenfreude is particularly active today.

[et tu]

85. in top form col.! nt

[ECL213]

25. Putin will be happy to pay more than something is worth...

Just to keep Trump on his payroll.

[MineralMan]

30. Only if Trump is re-elected, though.

He is useless to Putin as a private citizen. Is Putin willing to risk a bunch of money on the possibility of his election? I don't know, frankly. And I doubt he will be elected in any case.

I don't think he can count on Putin to bail him out. Putin knows that Trump is an aging loser.

[erronis]

43. Putie may have to borrow from the NORKs who need the Chinese to bail them out...

A house of cards. Putin's rump-USSR is in poor shape, the Kim's have devastated NORK, and China's economy is failing.

Maybe little Hungary can bail all of them out.

[MorbidButterflyTat]

69. So why isn't he?

What's he waiting for?

[ECL213]

108. To see if some other sucker does it first.

[Quakerfriend]

26. I totally agree, MM. Michael Popok, who for

many years practiced law across the street from
Mar-a-Lago, said that he would be surprised if it was worth more that $100 million- given the restriction on the property. It cannot be subdivided or sold as a residential property, per Palm Beach regulations.

Besides the fact that appears a bit rundown!

[MineralMan]

28. The problem is in finding a buyer for any property.

That one is limited in its usefulness, I think, and there are many restrictions on its use, so its value is diminished. And, as you said, and as I described, it's probably not in prime condition any longer. Might even smell a bit Trumpish, too.

[MorbidButterflyTat]

70. Ug.

[MOMFUDSKI]

29. He has to be right up to his fanny in

leverage. The world wants to see him squirm

[MineralMan]

31. Or even over his head, it seems to me.

If he has no power, his leverage capability goes down. I think people are re-assessing his future potential right now. Confidence is diminishing, I believe.

[Hekate]

32. I agree. The value of the building Ivana was given in their divorce was far less than stated...

… because of deferred maintenance. It was a mess. Ivana had to work quite hard to,get it up to snuff, and only after that did she make it profitable.

However — spoiler alert — Paul Manafort is back and working on Trump’s campaign. Rachel Maddow did a great review last night of his previous activities on behalf of every oligarch in Europe before he ran Trump’s first presidential campaign.

It made me wonder if Manafort was reverting to bringing rubles over for Trump, and whether Trump was about to find a Sugar Vladdy for his current financial crisis.

[multigraincracker]

33. Fair Market Value, what a

property sells for at auction. The difference between what he has valued it for and real value can be applied to all of his other holdings to determine his true wealth.

Poor guy.

[RipVanWinkle]

34. I will celebrate the day Trump files for bankruptcy, but

I'm not holding my breath.

[MineralMan]

49. Trump has used bankruptcy many times in the past.

For him, it's just a convenient tool to get out from under bad business decisions.

[orleans]

57. i think he has 6 business bankruptcies but no personal bankruptcy

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2016/live-updates/general-election/real-time-fact-checking-and-analysis-of-the-first-presidential-debate/fact-check-has-trump-declared-bankruptcy-four-or-six-times/

[moniss]

35. Good point and

when he is forced to disclose the indebtedness it will be interesting to see if he comes clean or if he tries to hide the "dirty" parts he got from laundered money. If he does hide them and it comes out that he deceived the court assigned controller and the court even further then it's another major world of hurt for him. It will be interesting to see how many transactions that were "off the books" now suddenly try to come "on the books" in order to claim a place in line.

Michael Cohen and others have spoken about how he has this super complicated web of LLC's, annual payments back and forth between entities etc. that only he and Weaselnuts knew how to keep track of. I would imagine if those chains of entanglement start to delay or break there would be a cascading effect. Sort of like when kiting checks gets interrupted.

[DinahMoeHum]

36. TAXES. Don't forget taxes. And mortgages.

If he sells a property, he also has to pay whatever federal, state and local taxes are involved (this being New York, so triple whammy - up to around 40 percent, says Michael Cohen)

@0:00 - 1:15

Little wonder the surety companies won't touch it, not even with a 39-and-a-half-foot pole.

[NanaCat]

38. Nothing about his finances will surprise me

I've always thought he was a rich kid who didn't have the sense to come out of the rain when it came to financial acumen, and that his wealth was actually a massive con, all smoke and mirrors.

Nothing we'll learn can shock me, because what I've suspected about his house of cards is that there's no there there.

He's the embodiment of a paper tiger, in every way imaginable.

[bluesbassman]

40. One of the reasons he's on the whine trail right now. Complaining about having to "fire sale" some property.

It won't be urgency that sets the price, it'll be the crappy condition of the properties. He knows that, but because he's the ultimate perpetual victim, he's setting up his cult for when they learn how broke he really is by telling them he's being "forced" to sell his property at rock bottom prices. Then he'll hit them up for more money. I see a new batch of super hero EFTs right around the corner.

[ShazzieB]

41. I find this to be 100% believable.

Real estate investors and slumlords like Trump will do anything possible to avoid making necessary repairs.

And those of us who read Mary Trump's book know what a sleazy slumlord Fred Trump was, and that he taught his golden child successor everything he knew!

I'd be very surprised to learn that ANY properties TSF owns are in tiptop condition. I guess when he has to start selling things off at fire sale prices, he'll have something else to add to the list of grievances he recites at every rally.

[sop]

44. There's a certain perfect symmetry to Trump's financial downfall.

Trump owes hundred of million$ because he fraudulently misrepresented the value of his assets. Trump couldn't secure a bond precisely because he fraudulently misrepresented the value of his properties, and now no one will accept those assets as collateral based on his inflated valuations.

Who says karma isn't real?

[MineralMan]

50. Eventually, stuff comes back on you at the very worst times.

I think, though, that Trump is backed up into a very dark corner this time, and may not have the means to get out of it again.

I don't know any of the details of his financial situation, of course, but this has the look of real disaster for him to me.

[mobeau69]

79. His only chance of survival is in our hands to deny.

We, as a people, can pull the plug on this shit show once and for all.

[patphil]

45. The question I have is, to what extent are his real estate assets leveraged?

What is the extent of his debt? Add tax to any sale of real estate, and he may have to sell several times the amount he needs to actually get enough for the bond.
This is the real danger with Trump. He may need a loan from someplace like Saudi Arabia, or even get Russian money that's been laundered through Hungary. That could be why he met with Orban.
He's definitely vulnerable to being co-opted by a questionable or even hostile nation.

[MineralMan]

51. Yeah, none of us know. Trump may not even know.

I'm sure he's overleveraged. I suspect that he's already in a deep hole and is trying to survive the climb out right now.

He's a good manipulator, but I think he has manipulated himself into a fantasy world that is about to come down on his head.

Thing is that he doesn't really have much to offer any longer. I don't think he's going to get re-elected, and without the presidency, he's got nothing to bargain with. Nothing at all. Things are not going to get better for him, either, over the next few months. In fact, they're probably going to get a lot worse.

He's in a tight spot, but I don't see a good exist from that spot.

[patphil]

67. And there's one other thing to consider here.

Trump is going to receive intelligence briefings as soon as he secures the nomination.
He can't be trusted with classified information, we know that for sure.
The pressure to provide information in return for a loan could be a factor here.

[AllaN01Bear]

47. i remember when landlords were forced to live in 1 of their buildings that are deathtraps . does that still go on?

havent heard of that lately but would be neat if applied to trump.

[MineralMan]

52. Yeah, I don't think they do that.

[MichMan]

100. The Super was a movie

[Beachnutt]

53. Looking forward to this

[MineralMan]

54. Yup. Put a boot on it and call the tow truck.

[Joinfortmill]

55. He doesn't even own some of them. He licenses the use of the name, Trump - which is now worth 'Shit'.

[MineralMan]

56. Yes, that's true, too.

[AllaN01Bear]

60. i still want to see his tax returns.!! dang nabbit jim!!!

[et tu]

86. me too

i bet there are a lot of wtfs in the deduction column lol~
what a 'moroon'

[onecaliberal]

66. I assume everything will get a legit appraisal.

[Warpy]

68. I don't think he's going to sell them off

He's going to play the delay hame while he tries to tell himself it's never going to happen, this is his pattern and it has worked for him in the past.

I think his properties will be seized. I think forensic accountants are going to be looking around and trying to fin out where he's stashed cash offshore.

He is not goig to be able to post that bond without dipping heavily into things he doesn't want to dip into for fear they'll show his creditors (including the US government) when he's stashed the boodle.

I's going to be fun to watch, the shrieking should be deafening.

[MorbidButterflyTat]

73. Um............

"...when he is forced to liquidate asses..."

[MineralMan]

75. Lol!

[generalbetrayus]

95. "...When he is forced to liquidate asses..."

Don Jr. and Eric for the life insurance?

[Danascot]

74. It sounds like

between inspections, appraisals and untangling ownership, mortgages, liens, etc, and negotiations, that all these steps that need to be done before the building can be sold will take a lot of time (months to years). If trump needs the money immediately he’s going to be disappointed.

On the plus side, I’ve read that his Doral Golf Resort comes with complimentary bedbugs.

[marble falls]

76. Like: who really owns all that stuff, that TFG is a cover for Russian gangsters?

[orleans]

77. take that n.j. golf course and check ivana's coffin for ivana nt

[Takket]

81. so when someone puts their foot through the rotted drywall and a pile of roaches and bedbugs falls out...

that will effect the value?

[panfluteman]

82. Will Bankruptcy Be the Thing that Finally Brings the Trump Monster Down???

After the courts and legal system, even the Supreme Court, have all failed?

[nuxvomica]

84. Spy Magazine toured the public areas of Trump Tower

This was years ago. IIRC, in an upper level courtyard, they found needed repairs and a full garbage bag sitting around. They revisited months later and the repairs weren't done and the same exact garbage bag was sitting around.

[et tu]

87. 'everything he touches dies' nt

[IronLionZion]

90. He's put his name on lots of stuff he doesn't really own

or he might own a fraction of it or something like that. He owns less than he claims.

[Wicked Blue]

91. Like secret documents belonging to the government?

Bodies?

[Hotler]

93. Red tag every one of his boilers in his NY buildings.

Last edited Mon Mar 25, 2024, 02:18 PM - Edit history (1)

Hey! Why is this safety valve wired shut???

[ShepKat]

94. no matter what it's technically 'worth'

It's only worth what ya can get out of it.

[RainCaster]

96. We will find out he is not a billionaire at all

He is so leveraged on everything that the true value of his worth will come out to be less than a single billion dollars. It may even be negative. At last his financial bankruptcy will match his moral bankruptcy.

The bigger question (for me anyway) is "who will be left holding the bag?" Which banks will get hosed the most by his creative accounting?

[republianmushroom]

97. Trump won't be selling any properties to make his bond.

He is milk this for attention.

Trump's net worth increases by $480M today...
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100218794535

[atreides1]

101. I think we'll have to wait to find out.

I have a feeling that Trump will come up with the money at the last minute, like he did with the E. Jean Carroll appeal!

Personally, I hope he can't post the bond...but for some reason this man is like a cat with 900 lives...just when you think he'll
finally be held accountable...boom, someone comes to his rescue!!!

[ColinC]

103. Is it a possibility that some of the people he is relying on to bail him out....

Are also competition waiting to buy him out at a discount?

[brooklynite]

104. You don't understand how this works

Trump isn’t forced to liquidate anything. NYS can seize property assets and dispose of them to satisfy the penalties.

[Groundhawg]

105. You are absolutely right!

[awesomerwb1]

106. He's abut to get billions from the sale

of truth social.

[MineralMan]

107. That's ghost money.

There's zero value in it. Nobody will use that as collateral for a surety bond. He'll still be in the same spot he's already in.