General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsDemocrats are losing the youth with the Tik Tok vote. It sounds crazy but this generation is addicted
To Tik Tok and they dont understand why we would ban it instead of focusing on other matters that seem more important . Why are we allowing Republicans to lock us into a losing situation right before the election. I know its anecdotal but I have heard several young voters express their anger and disgust on the ban vs working on other things. This seems like we are shooting ourselves in the foot.
MOMFUDSKI
(5,556 posts)Wanna win or not?
LuvLoogie
(7,011 posts)It's pretty much every Democratic user who isn't a politician. Pretty much every progressive creator. Yeah it's a stupid move by Democrats in congress. I'd call it clueless.
limbicnuminousity
(1,402 posts)the Nazi twitter platform is a-ok. If they really want to insure privacy is protected and anti-democracy campaigns are prohibited then perhaps the same regulations applied in the EU should be applied to Tik Tok, Twitter, Google, Apple, Meta, Instagram, etc. But for some reason that would be going overboard.
Idiots.
Lovie777
(12,276 posts)Elessar Zappa
(14,004 posts)In some ways, I agree with the proposed ban because because of Chinas spying. On the other hand, we cant afford to lose even a small number of the youth vote. I think my final opinion is dont ban it.
TheRealNorth
(9,481 posts)Steve Mnuechen and the Republicans will own our data and be able to play with the logarithms to funnel anto-Democratic disinformation to young people.
Yeah, let's turn Tik Tok into Twitter.
Takket
(21,575 posts)I absolutely agree that TikTok needs to be out of the hands of China to prevent it's data from being against our population.
But just putting up for auction to be bought by another right wing oligarch to turn it into a platform to disseminate hate is out of the frying pan and into the fire................
we should have learned our lesson from Musk destroying twitter
Voltaire2
(13,054 posts)or its algorithms.
However, like any other organization China can pay tik tok for data access. The problems with tik tok are generic: data privacy and dubious algorithms.
However, like most other Chinese companies, ByteDance is legally compelled to establish an in-house Communist Party committee composed of employees who are party members.
Zhang Fuping, the companys vice president and editor-in-chief, serves as the secretary of the party committee. The committee often holds sessions to study the party and Chinese leader Xi Jinping. One session in 2018 was joined by Zhang Yiming and his management team, according to the Beijing government.
Also, like its competitors, ByteDance has had to allow the Chinese government to take a so-called golden share in one of its key subsidiaries.
PufPuf23
(8,785 posts)Why not ban X then?
LuvLoogie
(7,011 posts)It's as bad as "Defund the Police," if not worse.
TexasDem69
(1,781 posts)Hope this doesnt rise to that level
flying_wahini
(6,606 posts)Facebook and Instagram both owned by Zuckerberg are MUCH more dangerous to Us.
I think somebody took the wrong advice on this one.
TikTok is pretty tame compared to X too. Musk is crazy.
It was about Money and Market share and little else.
Ptah
(33,031 posts)Bettie
(16,110 posts)tend to lean toward Democrats.
This will push them toward not voting or voting for third parties.
Ptah
(33,031 posts)because it is foolish to do this now...or ever.
I'm on Tik Tok and other social media. Facebook feeds me far more stuff I never asked for than Tik Tok. So does Instagram/Threads.
Pisces
(5,599 posts)Ptah
(33,031 posts)All Mixed Up
(597 posts)Cosmocat
(14,565 posts)being horrible is the expectation for them, so they don't get held accountable for being horrible.
America 2024.
Response to Pisces (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
Sugarcoated
(7,724 posts)Response to Sugarcoated (Reply #13)
Name removed Message auto-removed
blm
(113,063 posts)It will hurt more than help.
Pisces
(5,599 posts)blm
(113,063 posts)jimfields33
(15,820 posts)I couldnt believe the numbers who voted to ban it.
Voltaire2
(13,054 posts)performative acts.
spanone
(135,844 posts)they know this will hurt Joe Biden who said he will sign the bill.
blm
(113,063 posts)SouthBayDem
(32,027 posts)Otherwise, Bernie Sanders would have been the nominee.
For every terminally online 20 year old lost there are many more 40 year old reliable voters more in tune with issues affecting their congressional district.
Pisces
(5,599 posts)LuvLoogie
(7,011 posts)versus those that don't use TikTok and have no clue as to what the platform has become.
SouthBayDem
(32,027 posts)Do we really want voters who value a silly video app over the real issues facing the country?
womanofthehills
(8,718 posts)Many make their living off TicToc and - big business is happening there.
LeftInTX
(25,366 posts)All the time, I got notifications. I didn't follow anyone on Tik Tok, but constantly got notifications. I turned those off.
And the videos constantly posted on FB too. I also got a notification every time someone posted one on FB. I found it extremely annoying.
YouTube, Instagram, FB and SnapChat are more popular with young adults than Tik Tok
Mariana
(14,858 posts)Its important that Democrats work to keep young voters on their side.
SouthBayDem
(32,027 posts)Personally I'd prefer a voting base of thoughtful people with life experience, not a bunch of 21 year olds who are obsessively online and lacking in impulse control.
All Mixed Up
(597 posts)In 2020, Biden won the under 30 vote 60-36. He lost the 65+ vote 52-47. What demographic do you think might be more important for Biden heading into November - the one he lost four years ago or the one he won handily?
In 2016, Hillary won the under 30 vote 55-36. That five-point difference does not seem significant but if Biden won that demographic similarly to Hillary's numbers, he would have lost.
SouthBayDem
(32,027 posts)Who's more likely to vote in the real world - 18-30 year olds, or 30-65 year olds?
An answer from 2022: Exit polling showed that 30% of voters were aged 30-49 compared to 11% from 18-29.
So for every one TikTok obsessive there are two or three more reliable, mature, better informed voters.
All Mixed Up
(597 posts)I don't.
So, what are we gaining here?
Also, 56% of US TikTok users are 25 or older.
Your argument doesn't add up. Unless you think some voters will be more open to voting Biden for the ban (which I see no reason why they would), limiting the age range that you did the best in four years ago is just cutting your nose off to spite your face.
If everything remains the same with those other older voters, and Biden wins the under 30 vote by margins Hillary did in 2016, he will lose reelection. So, why risk it if you have nothing to gain politically from it?
Voltaire2
(13,054 posts)But I agree that attacking Tik Tok is idiotic.
Beausoleil
(2,843 posts)It's a bill to force Bytedance (controlled by the Chinese Communist Party) to divest (sell) the app. This the most likely outcome if the bill even passes which it may not.
The danger is the manipulation of users by the CCP, which is obviously happening indicated by Tok Tok telling users that it is a ban.
emulatorloo
(44,131 posts)under pressure from US.
TikTok is doing a big ole propaganda campaign by lying to the users about a ban.
Grindr has been sold by its Chinese owner after the US expressed security concerns
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100218785746
Lancero
(3,003 posts)The privacy of US citizens, the new owners ended up selling off user data in mass to a Catholic aligned NGO.
https://gizmodo.com/grindr-data-track-gay-priests-catholic-laity-clergy-1850207618
And the government response, so such a blatant violation of our privacy? Crickets.
emulatorloo
(44,131 posts)Which is the premise of this thread.
Lancero
(3,003 posts)Which, hilariously, our government cites as the reason for forcing a sale with threats of a ban.
emulatorloo
(44,131 posts)Start your own thread I think it would be interesting.
Lancero
(3,003 posts)If you don't want people talking about that, maybe you should have stayed on topic.
Take your own advice though and spin up a Grindr topic since you were so eager to bring it up here.
emulatorloo
(44,131 posts)Still looking forward to your thread about how Tik Tok will just get sold off to a company that will violate our privacy.
Cuthbert Allgood
(4,921 posts)And are we pretending that the optics of a bill aren't important?
And do you think the CCP is sending hidden messages in Tik Tok videos? Most of the people I see on Tik Tok talking about it are frustrated that 85% of the House can't agree on anything except this stupid fucking thing. And it is pissing people off that the claims of "we can't agree to solve a thing" are actually dumb given that they can agree on something.
Beausoleil
(2,843 posts)Tik Tok used location tracking to engage minor users to flood Congress's switchboards with warnings about banning the app.
Cuthbert Allgood
(4,921 posts)And the youth that we constantly hear aren't engaged were actually engaged? Doesn't sound like a negative. OH NOES! THE SWITCHBOARD WAS FLOODED!
Beausoleil
(2,843 posts)Propaganda.
Cuthbert Allgood
(4,921 posts)That the House was voting on banning the app? They were. You can spin it all you want about it being about selling it, but if it isn't sold, it's banned.
Beausoleil
(2,843 posts)That in itself is problematic. The bill may not even pass the Senate. There is no issue until the bill is signed.
In the meantime we have a panicked segment of the public based on lies that Tik Tok is telling its users.
I consider misinformation and disinformation coming from the CCP aimed at impressionable minors as propaganda.
Cuthbert Allgood
(4,921 posts)1. That there was misinformation or disinformation, and, if there was,
2. That is it coming from the CCP, and
3. That it was aimed at minors, much less
4. That it was propaganda.
An American user on Tik Tok telling their followers to call their representative doesn't mean that the CCP was "spreading propaganda."
Facebook has done much worse and there have been no votes to make them sell.
Beausoleil
(2,843 posts)Speak up now before your government strips 170 million Americans of their Constitutional right to free expression, the screen says. Let Congress know what TikTok means to you and tell them to vote NO.
https://techcrunch.com/2024/03/07/tiktok-ban-congress/
This was not an American user, this was Tik Tok.
There was no detail about the bill; implied an outright ban, which is false.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2024/03/07/tiktok-ban-congress-calls-us/
Obviously Tik Tok knows who their users are and I suspect that many minors use apps by misrepresenting themselves as adults.
I would not believe anything that Tik Tok says in their own defense; they are after all in business in the US and can lie as they wish.
Cuthbert Allgood
(4,921 posts)Yeah, I know, "iT'S nOT a BaN!"
Yeah, it is. The company is being forced to sell or it will be banned. Why would the company care after it is forced to sell?
And the end result of all of this is that those that skewed young were encouraged to be civically engaged. Oh the fucking horror.
TheRealNorth
(9,481 posts)If Bytedance doesn't sell.
That's kinda of like threatening to burn your house down, but then saying it isn't arson if you sell me your house first.
This is the sort of shit right-wing oligarchs like Hungary do.
emulatorloo
(44,131 posts)womanofthehills
(8,718 posts)Bytedance is worth 300 billion dollars. Like Vanguard - they own lots of stuff - like Chinas hospitals etc.
They own 40% of TicToc - internationals own the rest.
The Grand Illuminist
(1,332 posts)Their new strategy "If you can't beat 'em, buy 'em!"
Voltaire2
(13,054 posts)the majority of whom are us citizens. China and the CCP do not control ByteDance or Tik Tok.
Pisces
(5,599 posts)muriel_volestrangler
(101,321 posts)for which bidders will presumably keep their bids low, knowing the current owners have to sell it below the worth owners without infrastructure in China could get.
It's quite possible they'd prefer to run it outside the USA for now, and then wait and see if the ban is reversed at some time. They'd still have the option of selling later, to someone who would then be allowed to add the USA back in (maybe add India back in too, where it's already banned).
womanofthehills
(8,718 posts)As America is one of 150 countries that TicToc is in. The company said they will store US data in US.
Ponietz
(2,980 posts)Thats social media.
Like your reply, a kernel of truth can be found here and there in a web of inanity.
Social media annihilates nuance.
edhopper
(33,584 posts)by the election and be a nonissue.
Cuthbert Allgood
(4,921 posts)They'll remember. They'll remember that the government couldn't come together to agree on anything except this dumbass bill. And then they won't vote because their thoughts that the government is useless will be confirmed.
edhopper
(33,584 posts)I do think they are goldfish. If TikTok is still on their phones, they won't care about the geopolitical details.
Cuthbert Allgood
(4,921 posts)And plenty of liberals realize that China isn't controlling us with Tik Tok. This bill is ridiculously short sighted. Especially given that Facebook, Apple, and a lot of other tech companies sell the same information to whomever wishes to buy it, but they are not even included in this discussion.
edhopper
(33,584 posts)Tik Tok is a data mining ap that also has video, and the Chinese government gets the data.
I hold by my post and disagree with you.
I am awaiting to see if they vote at all. They usually don't show up.
Mariana
(14,858 posts)The majorty of old people vote Republican, so we need their votes.
betsuni
(25,537 posts)Mariana
(14,858 posts)You can select out this or that subgroup of old people who support Democrats, but still, the majority of old people vote Republican.
Silent3
(15,219 posts)Trump wouldn't be anywhere within 20 points of Biden if a lot of voters had keen recall, or even half a brain.
It's absolutely pathetic how little retention, not to mention awareness and common sense, many voters seem to have.
Cuthbert Allgood
(4,921 posts)Odd that we are shitting on them now.
Silent3
(15,219 posts)Im shitting on a large portion of the entire American electorate. Young people, I would say, have been a bit less shitty than the whole, to their credit.
womanofthehills
(8,718 posts)As US is one of 150 counties TicToc is in. TicToc has lots of international investors (60% of TicToc is owned by international investors) plus American investors - said they will store us data in US.
edhopper
(33,584 posts)If they do that Tik Tok is okay. The company doesnt have to sell itself, just the American division.
Kaleva
(36,307 posts)Like climate change, affordable health care, women's rights and so on .
emulatorloo
(44,131 posts)Theres 8 months until the election. It isnt going to still be an issue; Most likely Bytedance will sell and the app wont go away.
Just like this similar situation in 2020:
Grindr has been sold by its Chinese owner after the US expressed security concerns
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100218785746
LuvLoogie
(7,011 posts)Congratulations.
Pisces
(5,599 posts)That Biden said he would sign the ban if it gets to him. They spend a lot of time on Tik Tok and wonder why Biden is focused on this and not bigger issues. Directly out of their mouths.
Kaleva
(36,307 posts)They can go away but they won't leave because they want the handouts .
betsuni
(25,537 posts)but now an app is more important. Okay then.
Kaleva
(36,307 posts)then all we can do is wish them well and point them to the door.
Raine
(30,540 posts)All Mixed Up
(597 posts)For some, their top issue is what they perceive censorship by the US government. This isn't just banning tiktok, many believe it's the US trying to shut it down because of how much pro-Palestine the messaging has been over the last few months. I don't agree with it but they certainly believe that's the driving force.
But your flippant understanding of 'important issues' misses the point.
There's a lot of people who prioritize those issues and fair or not, believe Biden has failed to deliver results.
So, tiktok just acts as the final straw for many.
After all, Biden and Democrats had the House and Senate when Roe was overturned and nothing happened - they didn't codify it nationally but now they're saying, "vote for us and we'll for sure do it!"
It's a tough message because nuance is not a virtue in politics. The reality is that the Democrats didn't have the votes.
But for many of these voters, they don't see any incentive to vote Biden. And now he's going to turn around and take away their favorite app. You can't see why that might impact their vote or whether they feel even inclined to vote in November?
Kaleva
(36,307 posts)I could care less if they have a hissy fit and stay home. If you want to baby them and wipe their asses, you are free to do so.
sop
(10,192 posts)The bill passed in the House with a vote of 352-65; 197 Republicans voted for the bill and 15 against, while 155 Democrats voted for it and 50 against.
ripcord
(5,408 posts)It is amazing that the same people who freaked out over the U S. gathering data are willing to hand it over to China.
mike_c
(36,281 posts)It looks to me like Tik Tok is in the teenage-boys-launching-fireworks-from-their-butts stage of video platform development. Not very interesting.
Cuthbert Allgood
(4,921 posts)That's because of what you look up on the internet. The algorithm has never sent me anything like that.
mike_c
(36,281 posts)As I said, I haven't seen many videos on Tik Tok yet.
Docreed2003
(16,862 posts)You want to lose the youth vote, then ban TikTok. Why else would this be something the GOP would be willing to push if they didn't think they could hang it on the Democrats.
Lancero
(3,003 posts)It's not a case of "Look what we did!" it's a case of "Look at what you made us do!"
It's completely different.
Cuthbert Allgood
(4,921 posts)You can give me $20 to not punch you in the face. I can't then turn around and say "I wasn't planning to punch you in the face. You had other options."
It's a ban. And the youth are smart enough to see through the bullshit of "it's completely different." Because they aren't morons.
And, FYI, look what you made me do is gross. It's abuser language. You might want a different take.
Docreed2003
(16,862 posts)The average citizen does not. If you open the TikTok app right now, the banner says "The US House just voted to ban TikTok. Call your Senator and ask them to vote "No" on this ban". That's what the average person is seeing and that's what they'll believe, facts be damned. Good luck getting any of them to listen and accept nuance
Cuthbert Allgood
(4,921 posts)I just opened Tik Tok and the first thing I saw was a video of Cashy snowboarding in some fresh powder (and just fucking slaying it).
Docreed2003
(16,862 posts)TheKentuckian
(25,026 posts)Faux: The Next Generation.
It is a propaganda fountain for limited attention spans.
emulatorloo
(44,131 posts)MichMan
(11,932 posts)Why would they do that? Did they not understand what they were voting for?
Chakaconcarne
(2,453 posts)Anyway, why would only Democrats lose the youth vote?
betsuni
(25,537 posts)Everything's Democrats' fault no matter what. It's the law.
Beachnutt
(7,324 posts)and promote the good things in life.
JohnSJ
(92,217 posts)My first election was for McGovern, and I lived through the civil right movement, voting rights act, Women's rights, Viet Nam, etc. etc. etc. and I am watching those hard fought rights slowly whittle away.
We lose this time, I don't give a rat's ass anymore.
Mariana
(14,858 posts)The majorty of them voted for Trump twice, and will probably do it again ths year.
JohnSJ
(92,217 posts)that it will be trump and the rethugs who would do that if they are elected
Prairie_Seagull
(3,324 posts)being the 'most deliberative body in the world', kick the can until after the election.
angrychair
(8,699 posts)If you are a Democrat voting on legislation and the majority of Republicans are voting like you on that legislation, you are making the wrong vote.
SYFROYH
(34,170 posts)Ping Tung
(577 posts)This seems to be just another attempt at scaring the populace with a new Bogeyman.
Mike Niendorff
(3,462 posts)Remember Tipper Gore and the PMRC? It still pisses people off, even 30 years later.
So please, let's not be leaning back into that garbage, guys. Too much is on the line to indulge this crap.
And PS -- please for god's sake don't set up a situation where TikTok is put under the control of a wingnut-consortium like Steven Mnuchin is planning.
MDN
Tribetime
(4,697 posts)enid602
(8,620 posts)I believe that the Dems will unfortunately suffer an enthusiasm gap until theres a ceasefire. Has nothing to do with Til-Tok.
Think. Again.
(8,172 posts)...if it really is a national security issue, then of course some changes have to made.
And why would anybody who uses tiktok care who the actual owner is, if they don't already care that it may be a national security issue?
The sale of the platform probably won't effect the users.
This whole "WE'RE LOSING THE YOUTH VOTE!!!" hysteria sounds more like psy-op than truth.
Sky Jewels
(7,111 posts)Merrick Garland was plenty!
Millions of young people are already furious at and disgusted by the administration for enabling Netanyahus genocide in Gaza. You would think Dem politicians would realize this move would further dampen the Gen Z vote, which is essential if Biden is to keep Trump out of the White House. My own two Gen Z kids are definitely very angry about Gaza and the prospect of a TikTok ban.
B.See
(1,242 posts)Sky Jewels
(7,111 posts)and yet too many Democrats always seem eager to be milquetoast "bipartisan" appeasers and play Charlie Brown to football-holding Lucy. Not all, not all, I know...
betsuni
(25,537 posts)"Milquetoast" was a very popular insult for Democrats in 2016 and still Cornel West's favorite insult.
betsuni
(25,537 posts)Because they're "furious."
DarthDem
(5,255 posts)Is now also on YouTube Shorts. Which is actually more user-friendly at least IMO. This isn't going to have any impact whatsoever even if it passes and it results in a ban, which it probably won't.
Also, the (few) Very Online People up in arms about this won't vote anyway.
Finally, the president said immediately that he'd sign the bill. This isn't some neophyte; he's one of the best-steeped policymakers (maybe the best) in the history of the office. He's also advised by some brilliant people including many young advisors. I trust that they analyzed the proposal in depth, then figured this out.
LeftInTX
(25,366 posts)There weren't any prompts for editing or background music.
Most Tik Tok videos are heavily edited. Like Tik Tok, the thing plays infinitely on YouTube shorts...LOL Fortunately, you are spared here!
src="
DarthDem
(5,255 posts)I haven't heard any content creators I follow complain about YT Shorts versus TikTok. Google can probably figure out how to have YouTube host videos, LOL.
rockfordfile
(8,704 posts)Get rid of it. I support my country USA.
betsuni
(25,537 posts)ancianita
(36,065 posts)Tarheel_Dem
(31,234 posts)President Biden who has actual access to national security threat information over that of the Tik Tok demographic.
betsuni
(25,537 posts)Pisces
(5,599 posts)Useless demographic. I dont think we can afford to be so cavalier in this election. It could have waited until after the election.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,234 posts)support. You can't please everyone, and I would never even try, especially after someone has threatened me.
Trexmaster
(9 posts)Yeah, it's a tragedy they're exposed to filth but, at best, it's part of their own journey to understand how the world works, eventually. If they're not old enough to vote, then they're not a concern for the moment.
Any precarious political programming with catchy slogans & short videos, during their teens/late teens, can be deprogrammed just as easily.
#2 Everyone remembers Vine. Of course, 6-second videos would never do the trick, nor its succesor Huddles/Byte didn't with its 2-16 seconds limit.
More out of curiosity I ask, why did Vine (later Huddles) failed to grow, than how Tiktok hit the global marketplace besides the American one? Are the Chinese bleeding money, server maintenance costs, or something that I miss? Somebody, somehow, is bleeding financial resources.
It doesn't add up how this became a problem; what Vine could've been, instead of Tiktok...
LeftInTX
(25,366 posts)They're Biden's rivals.
Mountainguy
(537 posts)about how the Chinese aren't using TikTok for propaganda is pretty interesting.
betsuni
(25,537 posts)William769
(55,147 posts)If thats thier attention...
betsuni
(25,537 posts)that seem more important?: gullible fools with no idea what the Biden administration is doing and wouldn't vote anyway, even if offered a magical revolutionary most-progressive-in-the-universe savior-god. So what?
no_hypocrisy
(46,119 posts)TT to divest?
kcr
(15,317 posts)that they would blow everything up over a TikTok "ban", then we'd never have a problem with their turnout. But let's go ahead and scream and wave our arms about it anyway, and make it a huge issue.
Autumn
(45,105 posts)I have seen nothing to prove anything wrong with it.