If Gaza's Children Starve, Israel Will Lose Its Moral Legitimacy Forever

[Nanjeanne]

By David Rothkopf, a former senior U.S. government official and the author of ten books on foreign policy and politics.

The fighting in Gaza must stop. Not tomorrow. Today.
All available resources must immediately be directed to stopping the unprecedented famine that is underway in that embattled sliver of land that has already seen unspeakable suffering. As bad as the Hamas attack on Israel on October 7 was, the people and government of Israel must now recognize that today not just the country's security but its legitimacy are at stake as never before.

SNIP

Former USAID Administrator Gayle Smith told me, "We are already seeing death by starvation and are looking at an accelerating trajectory towards famine from now through May and likely catastrophic famine by July."

Jeremy Konyndyk, president of Refugees International, said, "When children begin dying of evident starvation, as we're now seeing, that is indicative of extreme, sustained deprivation. Given the overwhelming levels of food deprivation and rapidly accelerating malnutrition in the latest reporting (doubled since January), this famine is building momentum very rapidly.
"There will a lot of kids right now who are at the level of advanced malnutrition that the dying kids were approximately four weeks ago. The numbers will keep rising until something major changes the trajectory."

Snip

If the race to avert catastrophic famine is lost," she states, it will not be the fault of aid groups: Responsibility should be laid firmly at the feet of the politicians whose responsibility it is to create such conditions.

That means, first and foremost, the Israeli government. But it also means all the nations of the world who are in a position to help, right now. The blame-shifting and inflamed rhetoric and political posturing and disastrous decision-making that have brought us to this awful point must stop. Fundamental decency requires it.
But so too does the recognition that the failure to effectively intervene now to end the humanitarian catastrophe in Gaza will be a moral stain on the reputation of Israel from which the country may never recover.

Read Haaretz subscribers [link:https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-03-21/ty-article-opinion/.premium/if-gazas-children-starve-israel-will-lose-its-moral-legitimacy-forever/0000018e-5c96-d3c4-a7cf-7dd6e7720000|]

Read Free Link [link:https://archive.is/KXavj|]

[SYFROYH]

1. I think we are past "if they starve".

[edhopper]

2. We might be past

moral legitimacy.

[lastlib]

5. In my mind, they have already lost that moral legitimacy.

And they are in effect giving it to the Palestinians.

[liberalla]

22. I completely agree.

[Nanjeanne]

3. Yes true - but what will happen is even worse. The article's facts and figures are staggering.

[jimfields33]

27. I am not sure how this is happening with so much food aide going into Gaza.

So many countries are sending in aid. I know a few weeks ago an unfortunate situation with a few crates killed a person when it landed on them. That of course if unacceptable. Is Hamas taking the aid?

[cab67]

42. It's hard to deliver supplies in an active war zone.

[muriel_volestrangler]

54. Israel restricts the aid. For instance, scissors are "dual use", so they turned away truck with them in medical supplies

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100218770847

https://edition.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/israel-hamas-war-gaza-news-03-12-24/index.html

[DemocraticPatriot]

59. It isn't very much food going in. I read today that before the war, 500 trucks a day

were coming into Gaza, every day, carrying the commerce and food supplies which kept them going...

Now, that number is reduced to sometimes as few as ten trucks in a day.

The food aid that has been coming in has never come close to that 500 number, which was normal prior to the war--- and it is not possible to do much volume by airdrops.

[EX500rider]

4. I'm curious how this is "unprecedented"

When currently 5 million people are starving and 18 million about to in the Sudan due to war.

Hunger and starvation during wartime go back to the beginning of time so hardly "unprecedented"

[LexVegas]

6. Its unprecedented for people that live in the shelter of the U.S. nt

[cab67]

43. sort of.

I can think of any number of indigenous American communities that were "in the shelter of the U.S." and who starved.

[Zeitghost]

8. All part of the antisemitic narrative

n/t

[ramen]

13. Anti-starvation is not antisemitism.

I am not in favor of starving any population to death. That really should not be a divisive position. It was monstrous when Stalin did it. What is happening in Yemen or Sudan is monstrous. I don't think starving civilians is in any way reasonable at any time for any reason.

[PatSeg]

31. Yes, being anti-cruelty and starvation has nothing to do with

race, nationality, or religion. The whole world is watching and history will not forget.

[obamanut2012]

18. How is starving kids in Gaza "the antisemitic narrative"?

[Dave Bowman]

28. I don't see a link between the two either.

Same old narrative to try to paint the opposition to the massacre of innocent civilians as antisemitic.

[Sky Jewels]

39. The amount of bullshit like this, "speaking out against the starvation of kids means you hate Jews" is

Last edited Thu Mar 21, 2024, 12:35 PM - Edit history (1)

SO fucking ridiculous. I'm surprised by how many DUers engage in this kind of utterly disingenuous attempt to silence any criticism of Israel's actions.

[Zeitghost]

55. When did I make the claim that it was?

My post was not a direct response to the OP, hence why I didn’t reply to it…

[Avalon Sparks]

19. What

Fail to see how it’s antisemitic to be absolutely against deliberately starving people.

[Nutty Putty]

34. Oh Please....

So, concern for starving children is antisemitic? For the love of...

[Nanjeanne]

10. The war and starvation in Sudan is another humanitarian crisis that is staggering. Humanitarian

organizations including the UN have been warning of this disaster as well. I’ve seen the use of unprecedented in the many articles I’ve read on Sudan and in quotes from the humanitarian organizations as well.

Perhaps the author used it because of the speed it is happening. Or that is happening simply because aid is not allowed in by Israel.

Personally I find the details in the article staggering and aren’t fixated on whether it is unprecedented or something we have seen before Sudan is a humanitarian crisis. Gaza is a humanitarian crisis. Starvation that can be avoided is a humanitarian crisis. That’s all I give a damn about.

[TeamProg]

14. Our allies are supposed to better. IMO: Israel had/has become our bullying little

brother that the U.S. comes to defend when the little bully gets itself in trouble.

[David__77]

20. The US isn't shipping weapons to Sudan on an emergency basis.

That is another difference.

[EX500rider]

56. " simply because aid is not allowed in by Israel."

You mean, besides the average of about 140 trucks carrying food and other aid have arrived in Gaza each day, according to a database maintained by UNRWA?

Cogat, the Israeli body that coordinates humanitarian aid to Gaza, says that so far this month an average of 126 food trucks have entered each day. It says this is more than the 70 trucks carrying food specifically that entered Gaza before the war. Some 500 trucks in total entered Gaza each day before the war.

[Nanjeanne]

58. Please provide a link for 140 trucks per day. Previously someone gave some indormation

about a number of trucks each day but when I went to the link they provided it was actually about 19 trucks in a two day period and the information they were providing was for PALLETS not trucks and many of the pallets did not contain food.

So please provide the link where this information is detailed. Thanks.

[EX500rider]

61. How about the UN?

A maximum of 150 lorries have been reaching Gaza every day.

https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/03/1147342

[Nanjeanne]

62. The situation is appalling. Every minute, every hour, it is getting worse,"

Thanks for that March 7 article that says

7 March 2024 Peace and Security
Days from the beginning of the holy month of Ramadan and with no ceasefire agreement in sight for Gaza, UN humanitarians reiterated deep concerns on Thursday that a growing number of children are dying of starvation.
“The situation is appalling. Every minute, every hour, it is getting worse,” the UN agency for Palestinians, UNWRA, said in a tweet on X, formerly Twitter.

A maximum of 150 lorries have been reaching Gaza every day. In the north, one in six children under the age of two is acutely malnourished and media reports have indicated that at least 20 youngsters have died from starvation in recent days, including a 14-day-old baby.

Later on Thursday, the UN Security Council held consultations on the situation behind closed doors and was briefed by Senior Humanitarian and Reconstruction Coordinator Sigrid Kaag.

‘Massive’ aid scale up needed

Speaking to the press after the briefing, Ms. Kaag highlighted that her message to the ambassadors was the need for predictable and massively increased quality humanitarian assistance at scale for civilians in Gaza.

“We need to flood the market in Gaza with humanitarian goods as well as re-energize the private sector so commercial goods can enter to meet the need of civilians,” she said.

So back on March 7 a Maximum of 150 lorries were inadequate to prevent starvation of a people and this is your proof that on March 21 starvation isn’t happening? Ok then …

[EX500rider]

64. You said "simply because aid is not allowed in by Israel." I said up to 140+ aid trucks have been arriving every day

Where did I say anything about "proof that on March 21 starvation isn’t happening"?

Seems they only got a avg of 70 food trucks before the war, so I'd guess it is a distribution issue mostly, wars are not pretty

[Nanjeanne]

68. Okey dokey. A distribution problem. Got it. Cogat says lots of trucks!!!!

[Lonestarblue]

7. Israel has now lost all moral legitimacy for me.

With the help of the US over decades, Israel became a powerful country. Hamas can claim all it wants that their goal is to drive Israel out of existence, but they have neither the military nor the money to do so. Nor do they have the support of most of their Middle East neighbors except for Iran, so Israel as a country is not under threat.

I heard an interview recently during which the interviewee said that Israel must fight because its people have nowhere to go. Palestinians have nowhere to go either, yet Israelis think it is just fine to force them to leave all of Palestine. It is duplicitous to believe that only Israelis have rights to the land because some ancestors lived there many thousands of years ago but Palestinians whose ancestors have lived there as a majority for the most recent thousand years have no rights at all.

[jimfields33]

29. Uh. I think it's the recent slaughter of a generation of Israeli's in the 1940's that allows them to finally

get the peace the deserve. Unfortunately, Hamas won’t allow them to have peace.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

60. So because shitty things were done to them, they get to

do shitty things to other people?

If anything, they should realize what they are doing to a group of people.

[jimfields33]

66. There no rationalizing with Hamas.

They’ve been way past patient with terrorists for decades. No more being easy on them. In fact, I’m impressed with how careful they are to ensure very little civilians are in the area when they get a terrorist. It’s astonishing how they’ve conducted themselves in this very dangerous war.

[Autumn]

9. Well past that point.

[TeamProg]

11. History will not be kind. nt

[malaise]

12. Moral what?

please

[Zilli]

15. I wonder if anyone remembers how Israel came to be.

In high school I learned that during WW2 there was a ship filled with escaping Jews from Germany and no country would allow this ship to land. The Brits decided to land that ship in Palestine and give that land to these escaping Jews from Germany. So.....What about the people of Palestine? Apparently they became the enemy because they didn't want to be evicted from their homeland and fought against their eviction.... And now the progeny of those escaping Jews from Germany seem to feel it is their right to completely annihilate the people who lost their homeland and became human waste. A saga that continues daily and lives are lost and lies are told and now it seems as if the water front of Gaza is the new luxury destination, once the waste is gone and Jared comes along and develops the sea shore of blood.

I went to school back in the day when there was actual education and actual information and uncomfortable dialogues to have and to question was a good thing.... Mr. Lucy was my teacher and he told inconvenient truths.

[JohnSJ]

23. That version of history is not correct. Prior to the British Mandate the Ottoman Empire had complete control over that

area.

Turkey aligned itself with Germany during WWI, and Germany lost that war, and so did Turkey, and the British Mandate was a direct result of the peace treaties from that conflict.

The result of the British mandate was to provide a home for Jews alongside the Palestinian Arabs.

The Mufti of Jerusalem was a virulent antisemite, who continually incited violence against the Jews.

When WWII broke out things were mostly on hold in that region. After WWII, it was concluded that the British Mandate was unworkable because the Jewish population were continually attacked during the Arab revolt. The Commission recommended to Partition the area into an Arab state linked to Transjordan, and a small Jewish state,

Since 1949 with the help of Arab neighbors, they have tried to destroy Israel through multiple wars.

Because of the 1967 to the 1971, with the backing of the Arab states, Israel won those wars, and the Palestinians lost.

The refusal to accept the two state solution at the conclusion of the 1967 war, and the Arab countries meeting in Khartoum, resulted in the Khartoum Resolution, which produced the "Three No's". No peace with Israel, No recognition of Israel, and No negotiations with Israel.

[BlueMTexpat]

24. President Truman was

extremely troubled by the Holocaust, which is one reason why he ultimately decided in favor ot the newly created state.

His Secretary of State, George Marshall - of the famous Marshall Plan - strongly opposed the creation of Israel, mostly for the reaaons that have troubled the area since then. https://www.trumanlibrary.gov/museum/ordinary-man/recognition-of-israel

In the Spring of 1948, Palestine became embroiled in American domestic politics. Jewish votes were important to President Truman in the coming election. Key advisers, especially Clark Clifford, pushed him to stand firmly for UN partition to win those votes.

As May 15th approached, pressure on President Truman increased. He was urged to recognize the new Jewish state that was certain to be proclaimed when partition occurred. Others counseled against recognition, arguing it would antagonize Arab states and jeopardize American access to oil.

President Truman's regard for Secretary of State George C. Marshall was tremendous. The Secretary's opposition to recognition of a new Jewish state in Palestine troubled President Truman and resulted in the sharpest disagreement the two ever had. (emphasis mine)

[TeamProg]

45. I sincerely hope that Mr. Lucy didn't have a long "teaching" career. Google could have really helped him out, or, if

he read a history book on the subject.

No doubt now that modern Palestinians whose ascendants won the land in wars millennia ago, got royally screwed.

[malaise]

52. The Brits have been stealing other people's land for centuries

Ah well

[RainCaster]

16. They lost legitimacy when Bosnia slaughtered Muslims in the 80s

I remember hearing the constant refrain of "never again" from Jewish groups around the world. But not a single one came to the side of those Muslims being slaughtered for the same reason- their religion. They lost my support back then.

[Earth-shine]

17. Apparently, "never again" does not apply to Palestinians.

This so-called war is creating greater antisemitism around the world. Stopping the war won't stop the a-s, but it help to keep it from getting worse.

[TheKentuckian]

47. Ridiculous twisting.

The Palestinians are directly just one group who defense is necessary from.

Starting the damn war in egregious fashion and then to turn tail and have the fucking brass to call out your victim for settling you up is disgusting but to use the Holocaust as your duplicitous shield to do so is some Nazi type shit.

[Earth-shine]

48. "Never again" needs to apply to everyone.

Wiping out the Palestinians for their land -- now that's some Nazi-type shit, eh?

As usual, your use of slanguage, run-ons, and misspellings degrades any idea you have.

[BlueMTexpat]

21. Actually, Bosnian Muslims and Bosnian Jews

haved historically helped each other out. https://www.reuters.com/lifestyle/film-tells-bosnian-muslims-jews-saving-one-another-wars-2022-06-17/

Then there is the story of the Sarajevo Haggadah: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarajevo_Haggadah

The Sarajevo Haggadah is an illuminated manuscript that contains the illustrated traditional text of the Passover Haggadah which accompanies the Passover Seder. It belongs to a group of Spanish-Provençal Sephardic Haggadahs, originating "somewhere in northern Spain", most likely city of Barcelona, around 1350, and is one of the oldest of its kind in the world.

The Haggadah is owned by the state and kept in National Museum of Bosnia and Herzegovina in Sarajevo. Its monetary value is undetermined, but a museum in Spain required that it be insured for $7 million before it could be transported to an exhibition there in 1992.

The Sarajevo Haggadah is inscribed a National Monument of Bosnia and Herzegovina by KONS, on 17 January 2003, as movable cultural property. The Sarajevo Haggadah was submitted by Bosnia and Herzegovina for inclusion in UNESCO's Memory of the World Register and was included in 2017.

The Sarajevo Haggadah is featured in the 2008 Geraldine Brooks historical novel, "People of the Book," which is worth a read. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_of_the_Book_(novel)

Historically, Muslims and Jews have gotten along MUCH better together than Xtians have with either group.

It was NOT Muslims who instigated the various Inquisitions, Eastern European pogroms, and the Holocaust, among other outrages.

But it is Palestinian Muslims who suffer for them all.

[cab67]

44. There's a reason Bill Clinton never used the word "genocide" in the context of Bosnia or Rwanda.

The US is bound by UN charter to intervene when genocide is taking place. By not calling the killings and ethnic cleansing in the Balkans and Rwanda "genocide" (which they clearly were), Clinton was able to avoid dispatching troops, which would have been seen as very unpopular in the US at the time.

In my opinion, we should have intervened in both cases. As much as I respect Clinton, I'll always hold that against him.

[onecaliberal]

25. They already have been. That train has long left the station.

[flying_wahini]

26. In my heart they already did that.

[onecaliberal]

33. In reality as well.

[Dave Bowman]

30. Israel is becoming a pariah state...

[Ping Tung]

32. Both sides claim to have God on their side and believe that killing each other is righteous.

Both sides believe in the same God and claim the "Holy Land" is theirs to take.

Both sides need to find a new God. The one they have is trying to kill them.

[Sky Jewels]

36. Or better yet, stop believing in non-existent magical beings

and work to help other real human beings, no matter what side of the border they were born on.

[Ping Tung]

40. I've never undertood why people would select a God that requires that they "fear" it.

Particularly in the Abrahamic religions that have produced an all powerful God that needs protecting all the time. And, who always seems to be broke and requires donations from the rubes.

[Sky Jewels]

46. Right.

And if their deity is omnipotent, that would mean that humans get punished taking actions that were orchestrated by their cruel god. They have no choice in how they behave, yet it's their fault if they "sin."

This omnipotent god causes or enables untold suffering -- wars, genocides, pandemics, diseases, natural disasters, famines, on and on...yet humans are supposed to worship this supernatural monster. ... No thanks.

And if this sky wizard "gave humans free will," then why pray to change anything? God is obviously sitting on "his" hands.

And if the grand poohbah deity has a grand plan, then why pray to change anything? God is just gonna follow the master plan.

None of it makes a shred of sense. I'm glad that Asshole-in-the-Sky doesn't actually exist.

[Mariana]

50. Few religious people "select" their gods.

Most of them were indoctrinated in early chlidhood, by adults they loved and trusted, often with threats of severe consequences for questionng what they were being told. The various major religions have had centuries or millennia to refine ther recruitment and retention tactics. They are very, very good at it.

[Ping Tung]

53. I was born a Roman Catholic but not baptized.

My wife went through the whole system of Catholic school. She switched over to Quaker now but she is still frightened of the cruel god she was raised with.

When I was about 11 I asked a priest where God came from. He gave me the standard "God works in mysterious ways" run around and soon after I decided to take my chances with no god.

I just turned 80 so, so far so good.

[JI7]

65. They don't believe in the same God

[Ping Tung]

67. OK. If they're not the same god which one is the One True God?

Etymologically, the name Allah is probably a contraction of the Arabic al-Ilāh, “the God.” The name’s origin can be traced to the earliest Semitic writings in which the word for god was il, el, or eloah, the latter two used in the Hebrew Bible (Old Testament). Allah is the standard Arabic word for God and is used by Arabic-speaking Christians and Jews as well as by Muslims. The association of the word specifically with Islam comes from the special status of Arabic as the language of Islam’s holy scripture, the Qurʾān: since the Qurʾān in its original language is considered to be the literal word of God, it is believed that God described himself in the Arabic language as Allāh. The Arabic word thus holds special significance for Muslims, regardless of their native tongue, because the Arabic word was spoken by God himself.

From Encyclopedia Britannica

[Sky Jewels]

35. "If" they starve? TOO LATE. Many are starving. Some have died from it.

[IronLionZion]

37. Europe had restricted Jewish people to ghettoes back in the day

And we all know what the Nazis did to them. Palestinians don't deserve what Israel is doing to them now. Bombs and mass starvation are not morally much better than gas chambers. It's still inflicting pain and suffering on people in hopes they leave or die. All we need is for Bibi to say the words "final solution" to the Palestinian problem.

[ForgedCrank]

38. Israel will

not lose legitimacy with me.
Their neighbor declared war on them years ago, and initiated an attack and invasion, killing over 1,000 people.
The same people there have been doing the same shit for years. Attack Israel, then cry to the world about mistreatment when Israel retaliates to weaken the threat. They steal all incoming aid, then blame Israel when children are starving.
The sad part is that so many people keep falling for this 100% predictable MO.
If we want to protect those children, we need to support the effort to destroy Hamas. It is the only way, even if it may only be temporary

[Sympthsical]

49. "People keep falling for it"

No, no. No one's falling for it. It's a willful manipulation. It's knowing. On purpose.

They know.

That's why it's insidious.

[SARose]

41. Gaza is being turned to rubble -- and Jared Kushner thinks its waterfront is a 'very valuable' real-estate prospect

Joshua Zitser Mar 20, 2024, 8:14 AM CDT

Snip

Gaza's waterfront property, it could be very valuable," Kushner, the son of real estate developer Charles Kushner, said during the talk.

Kushner, who was formerly an advisor in Trump's administration, described what's happening in Gaza as a "little bit of an unfortunate situation."

"I think from Israel's perspective, I would do my best to move the people out and clean it up," he said.

Kushner added: "But I don't think that Israel has stated that they don't want the people to move back there afterwards."

Snip

More

There it is..”Gaza’s waterfront property.” Maybe after Serbia, a Kushner luxury condo/hotel in Gaza?

[maxsolomon]

51. "Moral Legitimacy" is not something Nation-States possess.

None of them.

Not even Canada.