Vasectomy bill proposed in response to Louisiana's abortion ban

[Nevilledog]

https://www.ktalnews.com/news/louisiana/vasectomy-bill-proposed-in-response-to-louisianas-abortion-ban/

BATON ROUGE, La. (KTAL/KMSS) – A Louisiana lawmaker is bringing forward a bill this legislative session that she said is tough on crime and protects women amid the state’s restrictive abortion ban.

HB166 would require convicted sex offenders to undergo a mandatory vasectomy procedure. Representative Delisha Boyd of New Orleans explained why she believes this is an appropriate response to the state’s new laws.

“What it boils down to is that we are unprotected as women in the state of Louisiana. Women are an endangered species in Louisiana. We’ve been told about our health care. We can’t get equal pay for women. We need a device in place to have some sort of protection,” Boyd said, (D) District 102.

Boyd will introduce HB166 in this legislative session. The bill, as proposed, adds penalties to convicted sex offenses by requiring offenders to be subject to a mandatory vasectomy. She said it’s in response to the state’s highly restrictive abortion ban that does not allow exceptions for rape and incest.

*snip*

[Act_of_Reparation]

1. I'm not a philosopher...

...but I do recall something about two wrongs not making a right.

[intheflow]

2. You're not a philosopher, but are you a woman?

As a woman past child-bearing age, I think this doesn't go far enough. It is a tepid response to women being enslaved again. And even at that, no way in hell it will pass in Louisiana where the legislature is 3/4 male and also 3/4 Republican. It's being put forward as a form of protest on the public record.

[Omnipresent]

27. +1

[Irish_Dem]

30. I agree, let's do more. Ban viagra and mandate vasectomies.

If women are going to be enslaved it is time fight back.

[Act_of_Reparation]

32. Forced sterilization is unethical.

If I were a woman, it would still be unethical.

The bill being submitted in protest is immaterial to the ethics of what is being proposed, but it is also worth noting that you cannot predict the future, nor can you speak to others' internal cognitive processes. The odds of the bill moving forward are slim, but they are not zero. What happens if it does?

[SouthernDem4ever]

37. Then a rapist might think twice before acting

Or are they so far gone they should not even be in society?

[Act_of_Reparation]

41. Proponents of the death penalty use the same argumentation.

There are two major problems with this line of thinking:

1 - It assumes crime is a rational process, whereby the criminal weighs the potential consequences of their actions against the potential benefits. Psychological/sociological/criminological research strongly suggests that crime is often not committed rationally.

2 - It assumes everyone who is convicted of a crime is, in fact, guilty of that crime. Again, research strongly suggests the criminal justice system routinely convicts innocents. While they may be in the minority, one has to consider whether it is ethical to kill or sterilize people knowing that while most are certainly guilty a number of innocents will also be affected.

[charliea]

49. Not a death penalty...

Louisiana law has already dehumanized women by removing their agency to chose. Being demoted to incubator status if you get pregnant (whether or not the fetus is viable), is already affecting innocent lives. The removal of potential threats to the well being of reproductive age women, given Louisiana's draconian law, would seem advisable.

To stay penalties for a conviction, that's an appeal.

What research do you cite for "...the criminal justice system routinely convicts innocents..."

[LisaM]

46. Vasectomies are reversible.

It's not forced sterilization.

[Act_of_Reparation]

48. And if a wrongful conviction is never overturned?

Is it reversible then?

[intheflow]

53. Yes, it's still reversable.

Women had to have backroom abortions, I'm sure the army of vasectomied sex offenders can find some backroom doctors to reverse their vasectomy, an quick and painless operation that is MUCH safer and less complicated than hangers, Lysol, and whatever else people ate/drank/inserted to get rid of unwanted pregnancies pre-Roe.

[Act_of_Reparation]

56. Oh, okay.

Hey, you remember when people used to put that Gandhi quote about how an eye-for-an-eye leaves the world blind and toothless in their sig lines?

Times have changed.

[intheflow]

65. I remember that wise saying.

And while I understand that and preach it most of the time, it's an incomplete formulation. If you don't resist the people who started the blinding, you'll be forced to live under the fear of eye-blinding maniacs running around unchecked everywhere, and you'll also become complicit in the eye-blinding of others. It's called the Paradox of Tolerance.

What's that? A philosophy posited by a real philosopher (as opposed to yourself), Karl Popper. To wit:

"Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance," Popper wrote. "If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them."
~ Karl Popper, The Open Society and Its Enemies. 1945

[Act_of_Reparation]

67. Where in the galloping fuck did I ever intimate that sex offenders should be tolerated?

[intheflow]

71. Men rape women.

Last edited Fri Mar 22, 2024, 12:32 AM - Edit history (1)

The Republican party wants to make that a right. You are tolerating that bullshit when you argue that legal, peaceful government protest in the form of a bill that has Z-E-R-O chances of passing is going too far to ensure women's bodily autonomy and safety. The women bringing up the problem are not the problem, and you seem more worried about the sanctity of a sexual preditor's spunk than you are for women's lives.

[LisaM]

59. I would call it forced birth control, not sterilization.

I haven't read the bill and it's not going to pass, but they could certainly add in language about circumstances under which a reversal could be permitted.

Whereas a woman who is rendered infertile by these draconian laws will actually never be able to get her fertility back.

[markpkessinger]

75. They are sometimes reversible . . .

. . . but there is no guarantee that the reversal will be successful.

[intheflow]

81. Okay, then. They can sue the government for wrongful punishment if they're actually not guilty of rape.

I don't have a problem with a minuscule number of men making that claim. It would be true, it was governmental malfeasance in that he was innocent but incarcerated anyway. This would just be added onto that law suit.

What I find really and truly amazing, though, is how passionate some DUers are about protecting rapists' sperm in a 100% hypothetical discussion based on a proposed bill that was presented as a protest and has zero chances of passing.

[et tu]

47. try carrying a baby to

term and raising that child to maturity and the daddy donor was the rapist-
if you want to talk about ethics. a vasectomy is no where near that living hell.

[calimary]

63. THIS.

This, Dammit!

[intheflow]

50. Then the few men that caught, tried and convicted as sex offender will have to have vasectomies.

Since most rapists are never caught, much less tried and convicted, most men's spunk will still be safe from us vile, hateful feminists. A vasectomy is hardly cruel and unusual punishment, doesn't force parenthood on anyone accidentally or against their will, doesn't keep you from crossing state lines, doesn't keep you from life-saving medical care. I mean, is this the hill you want to die upon? Sex offenders not being able to impregnate the next women they rape is a wrong akin to forced pregnancies?

[Crunchy Frog]

78. If it does, then don't commit rape in Louisiana?

[Bluepinky]

91. Forced pregnancy for a girl or woman is unethical.

Especially if it’s a result of rape or incest, and especially if the girl is underage.

[Ilsa]

92. And what about recitivism of rapists?

I don't trust rapists not to rape again.

[marble falls]

52. Best post of the day. Stop rape and incest, or sterilize sex criminals and allow abortion.

[soldierant]

64. I agree it doesn't go far enough.

It leaves a gigantic loophole in that a man can commit a lot of rapes (potential impregnations) before he hs caught and classified as a sex offender. I prefer the suggestion that all males receive a reversible vasectomy at puberty, which can be reversed when he has a significant other who will sign an affidavit that they want children.

[Alliepoo]

82. It doesn't go far enough by a long shot.

I’m thinking vasectomies should be mandatory for all males aged 18 and over. They’re usually reversible so if a male enters a marriage relationship he can have it reversed at that time if his partner agrees to the reversal. This is no worse than what is being done to women. (If the reversal doesn’t work then it must be gawds will.)

[Nevilledog]

4. Men won't care about women losing bodily autonomy until they're also affected.

Seems like it's a visceral reaction to keeping men's rights intact even though this bill only talks about convicted sex offenders.

[brooklynite]

8. A vasectomy doesn't have any impact on one's ability to engage in sexual assault.

[boston bean]

12. Correct, but pray tell what would it accomplish?

[Demobrat]

35. It would protect women from being forced to give birth

to the spawn of their rapists. Of course, so would abortion on demand, but the point is moot.

[Hekate]

13. Post #7 has a solution for that

[MadameButterfly]

23. Yeah, but the raped woman doesn't then have to carry his baby

to term

[Act_of_Reparation]

36. I'm not sure what you're getting at.

I don't believe the "reproductive rights of men" are under threat, by this bill or anything else. I am of the opinion that forced sterilization is unethical, and that we should not be in the business of proposing unethical legislation, regardless of how likely it is to succeed.

The death penalty "only" concerns convicted criminals, and I am opposed to that practice as well.

[Hope22]

10. While I'm not a fan of this I do like the idea of vasectomies for all over the are of 13.

After parenting classes and financial scrutiny local politicians will decide which males are suitable for spawning children. I don’t see how anyone can refuse this concept. It is more than acceptable for men to make laws regarding women and their reproductive rights. Not a blink on the stage as women are refused life saving health care for pregnancies gone wrong. Not a note of sadness as women and girls are forced to carry their rapists baby! Politicians with zero physician training have put the women of this country in a dangerous, powerless position. Time to level the playing board. Before you say, but a vasectomy reversal is not 100% effective. Better get cracking on that. I’m sure they can figure it out…for the sake of the men. Or they can freeze sperm and retrieve them when a woman agrees she wants it and the local politicians agree that he is donor worthy. Oh but wait maybe medically assisted sperm storage will be deemed illegal as IVF becomes outlawed across the land. Maybe the politicians should keep their hands in their own pants and let women have the right to control their own body.

[Hekate]

11. Red states like Louisiana not only want to force birth even when it KILLS the woman, they also..

… want to shut down TRAVEL OUT OF STATE for pregnant women. And it goes further — much further.

Philosophize that.

[CTyankee]

54. How can they shut down travel to another state for an abortion? How would they know?

[Hekate]

70. Texas passed a snitch law straight away. Then there's a bunch of redneck cops in my own California

,,,, who are following women to clinics if they have out of state license plates and sending the info back to the states of origin.

I shit you not, my sister. And it gets worse from there.

[Irish_Dem]

31. Was the Civil War abolishing slavery another two wrongs don't make a right?

[Act_of_Reparation]

33. That's not a great analogy.

I would ask, "Is enslaving white people to end the enslavement of black people two wrongs make a right?"

And I think we all know the answer to that question.

[Irish_Dem]

34. Changing my question so you can win is a weak argument.

[Act_of_Reparation]

38. Demonstrating why your argument was weak was weak argumentation on my part?

A very curious position you've taken there.

[intheflow]

66. That's a weak question.

You can't make a 1:1 comparison because men who can't get pregnant want to enslave women into pregnant servitude. Men can't get pregnant so they literally cannot be enslaved in this fashion. While human nature almost universally doesn't want to be enslaved, men can never experience the enslavement of pregnancy. Even women who want babies understand the limiting nature of pregnancy on our bodies and our lives for at least 18 years, and usually for the rest of our lives. Having it forced on us is intolerable.

[Hekate]

74. It is in fact a perfect analogy. I'm sorry you have not been paying attention over the past few years.

Last edited Thu Mar 21, 2024, 08:54 PM - Edit history (1)

[Hope22]

57. Why change the subject.

Why do politicians put their hands on the reproductive organs of women? Oh wait….maybe I see your analogy….the slavery of childbirth and motherhood will not be overcome without a civil war. Seriously do you want someone telling you that you can’t have a life saving medical procedure because the religion of your congresswoman does not agree with it? Answer is no so why is the concept of a woman’s right to choose so difficult. I would love to know.

[moonshinegnomie]

43. any politician that votes for an abortion ban should be sterilized.....

[Hope22]

58. Twice!

Just to be certain!🤣😂

[xmas74]

80. What part of offering a bill as a protest don't you understand?

This isn't meant to be serious. It's meant to register a protest against the misogynistic laws. It's meant to force discussion on the floor.
It has no chance of passing. Honestly, it has no chance of being presented for a vote.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

3. Not a fan.

[Nevilledog]

5. It won't pass, but maybe it will make some men consider what it's like to lose bodily autonomy.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

6. The bill is only for sexual predators, and while that's a legal designation, there are a lot of men out there who

would never consider that the label might apply to them.

[Nevilledog]

9. I disagree.

Not that social media is scientific, but I see men (presumably not all convicted sex offenders) lose their minds when any type of restriction to their bodily autonomy is mentioned.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

14. Do they ever connect that with other people losing their autonomy? or is it only for themselves?

[Nevilledog]

18. I've seen both. "Men should be inviolate" vs. "I've done nothing wrong so it doesn't apply"

[WhiskeyGrinder]

19. My question is, do either of those thoughts get them to "OH! I guess it's wrong if we do it to women, too, and I will

now fight against the actual bill that targets abortion care."

[Nevilledog]

20. Not usually. The misogyny is strong and the cognitive dissonance is stronger.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

21. Yeah so in the end that's why I'm not a fan of these kinds of bills/sentiments.

[Nevilledog]

24. I understand.

[MadameButterfly]

25. Still, the statement is worth making

The point is to make people think.

[Hope22]

17. Which makes it even crazier.

Blind, selfish control of others and they don’t even feel shame in it! Yet they guard their balls like they are jewels due all honor and the best of care. I’m just about over all of this insanity. Get the law out of this issue. Get religion out of this issue. That is the only way to move forward.

[Hekate]

15. Some people -- men-people -- have no idea just how angry we are at being tossed back 200 years

[limbicnuminousity]

7. Not far enough.

If women are forced to carry pregnancy to term after rape then convicted rapists need to be given the option: penectomy or sex reassignment.

Forget this "they go low, we go high" nonsense. They sexually assault women, they lose the ability to be with a woman.

[Nittersing]

16. Rape anyone you lose your penis!

[LiberalFighter]

22. I would think castration would be the route to take.

[limbicnuminousity]

28. Castrates can still rape.

Rape is about violence, not reproductive ambition. Take the weapon, not the ammunition.

[pazzyanne]

60. Less likely to rape if chemical castration is used.

https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=92c87f637f161a5cJmltdHM9MTcxMDk3OTIwMCZpZ3VpZD0wNTA2YjgwYi02ZTE4LTY3ZjItMzhhNS1hYzM0NmZlOTY2MjEmaW5zaWQ9NTIyMg&ptn=3&ver=2&hsh=3&fclid=0506b80b-6e18-67f2-38a5-ac346fe96621&psq=chemical+castration&u=a1aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaGVhbHRobGluZS5jb20vaGVhbHRoL2NoZW1pY2FsbHktY2FzdHJhdGluZw&ntb=1

[Lovie777]

26. Add blow jobs............................

[no_hypocrisy]

29. So that means guys in LA can go out and continue

raping, but no baby and no abortion.

Is that the best LA can do?

[SouthernDem4ever]

40. Of course not, but it's a start.

It also might make a few people think of the consequences of previous legislation

[Mossfern]

55. There is no law that prevents rape

it's already illegal. This just protects women from a long term consequence of carrying and bearing the spawn of a rapist.

[Hope22]

62. I just want to say that I am embarrassed by the lack of understanding and empathy shown out here.

It’s like people don’t mind war in this country unless someone they love is on the line. Trust me if a loved one gets raped and pregnant or if your family member has to cross the picket line to have a dead baby removed at an abortion clinic with People yelling baby killer at her like they know every f-ing thing. Well then some of these folks would know that another woman’s body is not their business! They would know that they owe some very brave women an apology. They would not sit out here and hypothesize about some insane idea about license to rape!

[et tu]

73. patriarchy seems to be

alive and all to well here, so sad~

[Hope22]

79. I don't know why it surprises me but US women are in real trouble.

I look at actions to determine if a person cares and from some of the responses here and the lack of any real concern from the men I live with I think the trouble is here to stay. The response of security at the Supreme Court on the 26th will also be a tell.

[intheflow]

85. Yeah, this whole thread has me wondering about all the men I know.

Reminds me of that quote from The Handmaid's Tale, when national policy retricts women's movement without a male beside her:

"He doesn’t mind this, I thought. He doesn’t mind it at all. Maybe he even likes it. We are not each other’s, anymore. Instead, I am his."
~ Margaret Atwood

It's disheartening and frightening.

[Hope22]

86. Hmmmm...

Good quote. It’s like that. I beg the three I live with to make the calls. Just call a Senator. Email…copy and paste. Since the decision I have been so upset! They have not made one f-ing call. They are all college educated, career oriented. All people who I have helped be what they are. Women are dying needlessly because of this and it makes me angry and breaks my heart at the same time. Why anyone would even consider voting for the monster is beyond me. I don’t have that problem here but their inaction makes me feel of no value to them. So bizarre that they are non reactive to a direct threat to the freedom and safety of all women here. Love to you! Stay safe. 🙏🏼💗

[intheflow]

89. You too, Hope!

[nuxvomica]

39. The Dobbs decision opened this door

By failing to recognize the implicit right to privacy in the Constitution, it opens the door to mandated vasectomies and a host of other things, like mandated vaccinations, forced organ donation, even cutting off the hands of thieves. It's like I've said, what good is the 1st Amendment if governments can cut out your tongue, or the 2nd, if they can cut off your trigger finger?

[littlemissmartypants]

61. Thank you for this. What many don't seem to consider...

Is that if they can legislate women’s body's (in particular their bodily autonomy) then what's going to stop them legislating your body, gender, race whatever....too.

[PatrickforB]

42. By that logic, perhaps an amendment is in order. I'm thinking that if a man wants viagra,

he should be forced to listen to a bunch of medically erroneous crap like they make women do in AZ, and have a trans urethral ultrasound before the prescription is approved.

This is overkill, of course, but these old white male christ-o-fascists have no business taking away this fundamental right from women. They just don't. These are the same people who hate Muslims because of Sharia Law, but want to impose their own brand of it on our wives, daughters and granddaughters.

[bucolic_frolic]

44. Make it applicable to all men as potential accomplices in crime

That will put an end to this bull.

[bdamomma]

45. good idea

nt

[OMGWTF]

51. Disarm the rapist.

[Takket]

68. *snip* I see what you did there LOL

[Talitha]

69. A guillotine-style chastity belt would take care of things.

[intheflow]

77. Except they're so damn uncomfortable!

And of course, chastity belts were a creation of the patriarchy so no one else could rape their wimmin-folk. So... maybe not.

[roamer65]

72. As long as the punishment is equal for both sexes.

There are male and female sex offenders.

Also what about false convictions?

[markpkessinger]

76. Think long and hard before you decide to employ doctors as agents of the penal state . . .

. . . Expecting doctors to perform a procedure that is medically unnecessary against a patient's will -- do you REALLY want to go down that path?

[Nevilledog]

83. As opposed to Drs performing c-sections on abortable fetuses without consent?

From one of my posts:

Standard pregnancy care is now dangerously disrupted in Louisiana, report reveals

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2024/03/19/1239376395/louisiana-abortion-ban-dangerously-disrupting-pregnancy-miscarriage-care

*snip*

Unnecessary C-sections raise alarms

In one of the most extreme examples of how pregnancy care has changed, doctors described cases of women who experienced preterm premature rupture of membranes (when the "water breaks" early in pregnancy, before the fetus is viable). Some of these women were forced to undergo Cesarean section surgeries to empty their uterus and avoid infection, instead of receiving an abortion procedure or medication.

"Which is ludicrous, absolutely ludicrous," said Freehill. "The least safe thing that we do, no matter if it's early in pregnancy or full-term at your due date, is a C-section."

Describing one of these cases, Dr. Michele Heisler with Physicians for Human Rights explained that the C-section was done "to preserve the appearance of not doing an abortion."

The patient wasn't given a choice, she added.

A C-section is major abdominal surgery. NPR consulted three OB-GYNs who were not interviewed for the report, all of whom said a C-section in a case like this is not standard care. Compared to an abortion procedure or an induction, it carries far greater risks for increased hemorrhaging, compromised future fertility, and other complications.

*snip*

[intheflow]

84. A review of instances of forced sterilization shows

that this proposal is not a clear parallel to those histories in the US. They were ethnically and racially based to suppress those populations (Jews in Nazi Germany, eugenics sterilizations in the US in the early-to-mid 20th Century, Native American women in the 1970s, etc.). THIS is not THAT. This fanciful bill which will never pass would be targeting convicted rapists, not everyday people who, in the instances cited above, were just living their lives. Some were rounded up and brought to Auschwitz and some never left their hometown because they thought they were just going to the hospital to give birth, not give birth and never be able to give birth again.

ALL these sterilizations programs focused on women, first and foremost. The only men who have been targeted have been Black, Latino, Native American, and the mentally and physically disabled. Again: all people who had just been living their lives when the government stepped in (or rounded them up) and sterilized them. This bill would not target innocent people. It would save women from being forced to carry a rape-induced pregnancy from a convicted (and assumedly freed) rapist.

[ripcord]

87. Do you really believe Louisiana won't use this for ethnic sterilization?

[intheflow]

88. Do you really this has a snowball's chance in hell of passing in Louisiana?

[Hope22]

90. This won't protect her daughter at a party with a future Supreme Court Justice!

The vasectomies need to start younger because as we know the number of women who say ‘no’ only to be ignored starts much earlier….fathers, uncle, grandfathers, brothers, cousins, classmates. The vast majority of which go unreported, even to mother. This right here, the nuts of a convicted criminal are a drop in the bucket! We need healthcare, contraceptives, and abortion when all else fails! Our physicians hands are being tied and abortion and contraceptives are being pushed to over the counter drugs taking the physician out of the equation. The availability of young women to speak with and hear from a doctor, to receive the information they need in a safe environment has evaporated in this country for millions of females.
The men in this country have a big problem in this country and they remain happily ignorant of the fact! Women are powerful. The same women who grew up watching strong women fight for and winning reproductive rights are now grandmothers, aunts, neighbors. We aren’t all dead and this squash of women’s rights to body autonomy will not end well for the oppressors! Define oppressor one might ask. Any male that has not called their Senator or Congress person to demand a national abortion law. Seriously doing nothing is not a plan! Doing this minimum action simply keeps one from looking a total Dick!