Sick to my stomach.

[Goodheart]

This is a country for the crooked rich, by the crooked rich.

[Omnipresent]

1. I know it's not what we were expecting, but $175 is still not what tfg wants to lose.

[Kablooie]

23. Hes not losing it.

He will get someone else to put up a bond so he pays nothing but a fee.
The 175 is probably what the lawyers asked for because they knew they could get it.

[kimbutgar]

2. He can't keep getting away from this shit

I’m pissed today and was expecting to be happy he was finally getting his comeruptance.

Now my happy balloon has burst

[John Shaft]

3. It always has been.

nothing new.

I'd post the clip of Fred Sanford in a courtroom on the show "Sanford and Son," but it includes the "N" word. He offers an exemplification of the "Justice/Just Us" disparity in the legal system.

[scipan]

4. Exactly the way I feel.

[XanaDUer2]

5. I expected something like this

Or anonymous donors to give him the money

[Bernardo de La Paz]

6. Doomers fold at the drop of a hat. Gosh, what about a bit of courage and patience?

Yeah, it's hard.

But do not forget: tRump has been found liable for two big crimes committed and assessed penalties of about half a billion dollars.

But hey, it's easier to be a doomer.

[angrychair]

9. The money is meaningless

He also seems to be able to come up with money.
The order also reinstated his ability to do business in NY as well until the appeal is completed.
Given his current track record, that could literally be years.

The courts have proven completely worthless in holding him accountable.
His criminal proceedings are falling apart and will likely go on for months, if not years if you consider appeals.

I probably have another 10-20 yrs left in me and I honestly doubt I will live to see him convicted of anything.

[MorbidButterflyTat]

50. "The order also reinstated his ability to do business in NY"

No. It didn't.

[angrychair]

57. Yes, it did

Go and read the order. He can conduct business, seek loans and be on the board of directors in NY state until the appeal is completed.

[SlimJimmy]

56. Here's what I don't understand.

The five judges who made the ruling were all Democrats. They followed NY State law when they reduced the bond. BTW, it is done quite often in NY. So why all the doom and gloom? It happened, it's not all that unusual in NY. Why can't we just move on and win an election November?

The courts have proven completely worthless in holding him accountable.

[angrychair]

59. Forest for the trees

People always like to quote procedure and "normal" when it's not all that normal for the poor and disenfranchised.
It was New York that sent a teenage boy to Rikers just for the accusation of stealing a backpack and left him there for 3 years with no trial and most of that time in solitary confinement. Literally drove him to suicide. That is the legal system most people have to deal with.
We don't get endless motions and appeals and stays and get to slur the judge and AG and ridicule them on social media.

I'm also tired of people implying that him not getting elected makes him go away. We already tried that and he came right back. I also think if he loses that he will just fill to run in 2028.

This doesn't all stop on November 6th. It just keeps going.

[Joinfortmill]

74. Conviction and loss of his assets. That's all that will stop him, short of death which would be a blessing for the world

[birdographer]

20. Well then call me a doomer

I see things the way they are right now. So what if he has been found liable? Is he in prison? Is he paying the fines that were imposed by the court? Or is he still walking around free as a bird to conduct his hate rallies and spread lies?

I say it's easy to accept things, shrug, feel nothing, and then put your head back in the sand.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

22. There is a more realistic middle path doomers can't see if they go into all-or-nothing mode. . . nt

[sop]

29. Does your optimism have an expiration date?

[Bernardo de La Paz]

32. No expiration date known while cases are ongoing

It's not exactly optimism. More like patience with a cautiously open mind. I work to find as many sides to any argument that I can find.

Similarly, I don't indulge in all-or-nothing false dichotomies.

[hamsterjill]

68. There was another poster before

Who repeatedly, almost on a daily basis, flogged the rest of us for saying Merrick Garland wasn’t going to do anything.

How’d that work out?

Reality is reality. It is neither doom and gloom nor sunshine and lollipops. The truth is that Trump continuously gets away with things that most people would pay dearly for. Fact. Indisputable fact.

[RobinA]

27. As A Doomer

since 10/2016, when is it reasonable for me to officially run out of patience? I used to have confidence in our system, but I don't have a whole helluva lot left at this point.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

28. Your "not a helluva lot" of confidence is more reasonable than "IT IS ALL BULLSHIT" doomers shout. . .nt

[StarryNite]

33. There is a difference in being a "doomer" and a realist.

As realists we are seeing things the way they exist. If we appear to be "doomers" it's only because we are not in denial of what we see happening on a daily basis when it comes to hump and all he gets away with. On the flip side of "doomer" is a Pollyanna and the belief that everything is sweet, light, and will turn out right. To this point we have seen no indication of that happening.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

42. Again we get a false choice between "doomer" and Pollyanna. That's NOT realistic. . . . nt

[StarryNite]

46. I said the flip side of "doomer" is Pollyanna.

I did not is has to be one or the other. There is the middle of which most probably fall into. For example, some of us have been labeled as "doomers" when we are realists.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

49. Okay. . . . . nt

[Kid Berwyn]

37. "Doomers."

Like "Truthers"?

You know, some memorable word to heap scorn upon those who refuse to go along with whatever authority says is just, fair, correct or right?

[Bernardo de La Paz]

39. Without being a doomer, I don't accept the idea that authority is always just fair and correct

Authority is sometimes unfair, unjust, and incorrect.

[hay rick]

53. I guess it's pity party time.

I have to wonder what hand-wringing accomplishes besides spreading discouragement. Those who can't come up with a plan to do something constructive to fight oligarchy and fascism themselves might consider, at a minimum, not encouraging other people to surrender. I know it's cold comfort.

[samsingh]

7. its disgusting

[Lonestarblue]

8. I'm thoroughly disgusted at how Trump continues to get special treatment.

Is this also a harbinger that the NY Appeals Court will reduce the now nearly $500 million fine to $175 million. I guess the law doesn’t matter much for rich white guys.

[Goodheart]

12. Justice is for suckers.

[SleeplessinSoCal]

45. considering the request was to lower it to $100,

$175 mil is still a lot and proves he is not who he says he is. That he is a big, fat liar.

[kiri]

10. Reduction in punitory damages was expected

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=18794123

"I expect the $500+ million fine will be reduced to 40-60%. The 8th Amendment. The judgment for compensatory damages, legal fees, etc, will stand, adding up to ~$20 million. The punishment, punitory, serving-as-an-example fine will be capped at about 100-150% of the compensatory, real costs Carroll suffered. This will meet the 8th Amendment test.
So of $91 million, Trump/his estate will pay about $50 million.

It will take 8-10 years, by which time everybody will be dead. And Carroll will never have got a dime out of it, sadly."

The $450 million was reduced by 61%. to $175 million.

[onetexan]

13. That's $175M for bond only, right?

Or did the judgement total change as well? Sorry been stuck in meetings all morning & i just now tuned into msnbc, only to tune out since repug leaning/"barely able to eak out a sentence without pausing" andrea mitchell was hosting.

[Orrex]

18. That reminds of the time I was driving with an expired registration

The fine was like $105, but after court review etc. it was reduced to $465.


Yes, yes. I know a traffic citation is different from a civil judgment. Still, the endless deference Trump has received and continues to receive creates the overwhelming impression that the rich are indeed treated differently, as if it weren't already obvious in every aspect of life.

[Skittles]

65. ?

it went from 105 bucks to $465?

[Orrex]

69. Well...... Sort of.

The $105 was if I paid it no contest. The $465 was if I contested it in court. I might have the cost of the citation withdrawn, but then there'd be court fees, filing fees, processing fees, etc. And if I'd lost I'd have had to pay those costs plus the original citation.

I wound up paying outright. This was about 16 years ago so the precise dollar amounts escape me, but I'm in the ballpark. We were in a bad financial position at the time (hence the expired registration) and I didn't have $100 to spare, much less 4X that.

So I guess my point was that an ordinary citizen has the option to pay or to pay more, but Trump has the option to negotiate a payment amount that he finds more convenient.

[budkin]

21. This is only for the bond, the judgement didn't change

AFAIK

[Rorey]

36. That's what I'm understanding

The fine remains the same, and unless he wins his appeal, that'll be what he has to pay. He just doesn't need to put the entire amount up as a bond while he's appealing.

[markpkessinger]

58. That's right . . . BUT . . .

. . . the fact that they were willing to reduce the bond is a pretty good indicator that there is significant sympathy for Trump's argument that the judgment itself should be reduced.

[dsc]

43. Carol isn't even 80

and looks fairly healthy. I can easily see her living until 90 or more.

[republianmushroom]

11. Yup, you are starting to understand things as they are.

[cayugafalls]

14. "It's a big club...and you ain't in it". GC

opps, I thought I was posting on main...my bad.

[republianmushroom]

19. Nope, never have been.

[Turbineguy]

15. The trump view:

now he doesn't have to sell secrets to the Russians, so it's a win for the U.S.

[republianmushroom]

17. You are quite the optimist.

If there is a buck to be made, trump will try to make it, no matter what.

[lastlib]

40. "...doesn't have to......" (BUT........)

"Thar's gold in them thar secrets."........

So it doesn't mean he won't. He CANNOT be trusted on this or ANYTHING else.

[SergeStorms]

41. I believe...

the money for selling state secrets has already been made.

He's had almost four years. He might suck at being a businessman, but he's damn good at collecting money.

[birdographer]

16. My blood pressure must be through the roof

I am so angry I can barely stand it. This happens to him EVERY SINGLE TIME. He has yet to be held fully accountable for anything, he skates through it all.

He is going to live to be 150 and will move to Russia when he has thoroughly destroyed America. He will never be ill, he will never suffer an injury, no one will ever attempt to end him, he will live out his 150 years in a safe bubble, protected by cult members, courts, and rich people. When he is 150 he will only be able to babble incoherently, but it will make no difference whatsoever to the peons who worship the ground he stumbles on. He is a god now, and he will forever be a god, outliving every single person who is alive today.

I just give up. I would not have thought I was capable of this amount of hate for one person.

[Rorey]

38. Just remember

He's just getting a little reprieve for when he has to come up with the money. Within ten days he'll need to post the reduced bond, and then when he loses his appeal he'll still have to pay the entire fine. He's not out of the woods by any means. He's still sweating, and this will take a toll on him.

[0rganism]

47. We'll save you a seat down here for when he wins his series of appeals

By the time this is over, NY will owe him money and he'll be writing up a batch of pardons from the oval office.

[Warpy]

24. It always was, to one extent or another

When we broke off from England, wealth was measured by land and only white males who owned land could vote. We've slowly been democratizing from that lackluster start but we're still a work in progress.

Waves of wealthy men, whether Robber Baron industrialists who created monopolies, financiers who gave us the boom and bust cycles, or the current crop of tech billionaires, have always rigged the system to benefit themselves and that rigging has invariably caused it to come apart at the seams.

In other words, this current paradigm of oppression isn't going to last forever. I'll wager it's not going to last a hell of a lot longer, since most self problaimed billionaires are afloat on an ocean of debts hidden by offshore dummy corporations.

If only more people realized rich men are lucky but not smart.

[orangecrush]

25. Done.

Fuck this country.

We are now a mafia state, just like russia.

[Siwsan]

26. I agree

I just want to go to bed and sleep for weeks and weeks.

[D23MIURG23]

30. Where is this "rule of law" I keep hearing about?! Did I miss the fine print that says it only applies to the plebes?

[Goodheart]

31. I keep thinking about Reality Winner.... and how quickly she was jailed for taking, what, one document?

I don't think even Franz Kafka could have written anything fictional this grotesque.

[catrose]

44. Yes, every time he or someone else brushes off all those boxes of classified documents

He even changed the law to punish her worse

[D23MIURG23]

64. Yeah, that's the perfect example.

Patriotic service person breaks law in principled stand ==> prison immediately.

Rich traitor commits sedition, fraud, and open rebellion == > handwringing, delay, subservient bench legistation, liberal amounts of mealy mouthed bullshit.

Un-fucking-acceptable.

[JoseBalow]

34. "It's for sure a white man's world in America"

It's for sure a white man's world in America. Look here: ... I'll say right now, he never learned to read and write. No, sir. Had no brains at all. Was stuffed with rice pudding between the ears. Shortchanged by the Lord, and dumb as a jackass. Look at him now! Yes, sir, all you've gotta be is white in America, to get whatever you want. Gobbledy-gook!

- Louise, Being There

[Ponietz]

35. Giving up is an entitlement

[AllaN01Bear]

48. of the rich . by the rich, shall perish from the earth.

[Initech]

51. Fox News owns the GOP, they won't let any harm come to that POS.

I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that they're meddling in these trials. Time to find out who's compromised.

[marble falls]

52. So I guess you're just giving up?

[Goodheart]

54. No, I will still vote, and I will still try to win over family members to the correct side,

all without the slightest bit of optimism.

[marble falls]

55. Good. We keep on going.

[YoshidaYui]

60. Feel the same...

Agree

[SARose]

61. I only want one thing

a UUUGE number on Election Night. I want to see Dark Brandon drop kick him thru the goal posts of life. I want to see his fat orange face when he realizes what is headed his way. Period.

All the rest can wait. For all eternity he will be

The first President to incite an insurrection
The first President convicted of sexual assault
The first President convicted of illegal business practices
The first President who couldn’t raise bond money.

And more.

Keep the faith. Play the long game and kick their asses in November. Revenge is a dish best served cold. 👿

[tazkcmo]

62. I concur.

TSF's entire life has been a constant affirmation of what I've known since 1979.

[uponit7771]

63. Benedict Donald isn't rich, this is how the justice system treats white males

[CaptainTruth]

66. The crooked rich, or ANY rich, even the non-crooked folks, have more influence than those who are not rich.

Money talks. Money buys influence. It's been that way since the beginning of our country & for centuries before.

Hate me for saying it if you want, but if this truly was "a country for the crooked rich," which I take to mean a country that works only for the crooked rich, then every charge against Trump & every other crooked rich person in America would be dismissed. That has not happened, & it won't.

Also, based on my understanding, bond amounts in cases like this are routinely reduced 40%-60% when appealed, so this is not unexpected. That's the way our justice system works. (Key concept there.) That applies to the crooked rich like Trump & it apples to all of us. If we don't like how our system of justice works, WE need to do something about it.

In that context I must ask, what have we been doing about it? If judges having the ability to reduce bond amounts that much is "outrageous," if we are truly sick to our stomach & livid about it, if it's THAT important to us, then surely we've been working to change it for years, for all the years it's been possible, right? Right??? All of us angry folks have contacted our representatives multiple (dozens of?) times to express our displeasure at the fact that judges are given this kind of leeway? Right???

Obama said "Don't boo, vote." I say "Don't complain, work." I get so tired of complaining without action... if it's worth complaining about it's worth lifting a finger (or two or ten) to change!

Sorry if I've offended any of my DU friends. I've just reached the end of my rope with social media complaining with (apparent) lack of any effort to make change. Talk me off this ledge if you can. We need to work to make change, not just complain.

Thanks.

[Evolve Dammit]

67. same. I don't want to hear "No one is above the law" BS anymore. Sickening

[Seeking Serenity]

70. "This is a country for the crooked rich, by the crooked rich."

It has always been thus, n'est-ce pas?

[Seeking Serenity]

71. "This is a country for the crooked rich, by the crooked rich."

It has always been thus, n'est-ce pas?

[betsuni]

72. Not as bad as other countries, too dramatic.

[Joinfortmill]

73. Take heart. We'll push them back. But it's a constant battle.